Trix and Julie

[Julie Stephens]

Hi Trix is my 2 year old border collie. We started training the weaves using the channel method which worked well for my last dog but Trix is not as confident and we struggled. I thought doing a structured 2×2 course would help keep me on track and give Trix the level of understanding she needs.

[Julie Stephens]

Hi
I’ve started on step 1, initially she did a lot of back weaving but I think I am bringing her into position better now
Trix step 1

She is looking back to me to throw the food. Am I too late? I don’t want to lure her but also don’t want her looking back at me

[Barb Levenson]

Hi Julie,
Thanks for reaching out. My sense is if she is looking back you are late. May I suggest you start with some visualization in slo-mo. Visualize your dog’s nose exiting the two poles as you “bowl” the food. Also, stay in control of her head as she exits the poles and lure (if you have to) her back to position. One of my students has taken a working spot. I will get some videos of her and get them posted to the group.
Barb

[Julie Stephens]

Hi
Trix and I have been working through the steps and here is where we are at. We have done a few sessions and hit a few snags but we just have done what you suggest and go back one and then progressed from there.
Once we are past 3 and 9 oclock is where she struggles but we are getting better.
Here are 2 videos of steps 2 and 3

Steps 2a and 3a
Steps 2b and 3b

[Barb Levenson]

Hi Julie,
You have a really nice dog! In Steps 2a and 3a I do notice that your toes are not pointing to the correct pole. It appears from where the video sits your toes point to the second pole and even the idea of more poles down the road. Your toes must always point to the very first pole at all times.I’ll do another post if I notice anything in 2b and 3b.
Barb

[Barb Levenson]

Toe problem appears fixed. Good for you!!! Awesome job you two. And 3 and 9 is where we all struggle.

[Julie Stephens]

Thanks Barb. I think I am not focused on always getting my toes pointed in the right direction so will work on that more

[Barb Levenson]

Hi Julie,
We are often more focused on the dog rather than our mechanics. I am currently working Jack using my scooter. I understand exactly what you are talking about. This is a NEW way for me to teach weaves and presenting many of the challenges that everyone has with the program. Hang in there! You’re doing great!!

[Julie Stephens]

Hi we finished week one off well. Trix was going in the entries well and I made sure my toes were pointing in the right direction! She was patient ly waiting for me to get I to position and release her
Getting started on week 2 is slow. She has no drive.
Here are videos on step 1Week 2 step 1a
Week 2 step 1b

[Julie Stephens]

Week 2 Step 2 a and b

Here she is getting more drive. Bit of a hiccup when she decided the behavior she was learning included going over the pole I had on the ground to indicate ‘9’ on the clock. Bless. Will work on that

[Barb Levenson]

Julie,
I noticed something immediately. You start to move WITH Trix. Please allow her to go ahead. The BC’s want to FIND their entry. Our motion interferes with that. Notice with Classy I allow him to go ahead. Our motion, which is so important to them, causes a distraction. Every BC that I have taught or supervised the training of, wants the handler behind them. And if you think about our herding dogs, that is exactly where we are most of the time. And as I watch more, that is why she is slower.

Do you do obedience with her? Her head gives me the idea that you do. She is looking at you as you start moving. My suggestion is to separate these behaviors as much as possible. Allow her to go ahead of you and look down the reinforcement line. Also, I’m not sure what you are using for reinforcement. Could you let me know? Also, may I ask you to stop reinforcing the sit at the start. I think she is pretty advanced and can do that without reinforcement. If not, use some of ‘less’ value than the weave reinforcement. I have raised the reinforcement value of the weaves to such a high level, that’s all he wants to do. Let me know the food and the reinforcement and I will offer a suggestion.

Barb

[Barb Levenson]

For those of you watching Trix and Julie with breeds other than BC’s… Different breeds learn differently. Sporting dogs learn somewhat differently than herding; and working differently than sporting.

The important thing for you all to remember is to NOT combine steps from other programs. Dog training is becoming more and more about adding new neural pathways in the dog’s, and human’s, brain. If you start combining my program with old learning’s it will tend to be confusing to the dog. I tend to use a high rate of reinforcement. I use reinforcement the dog sees nowhere else. And I work to be prepared when I approach the line.

Here’s saying that is in my building: Neurons that fire together, wire together. That means every time a dog repeats a behavior, even an incorrect one, there is an opportunity for those neurons to become wired. Fixing this is harder than preventing in the first place. I am also working to be very clear with Jack that ONLY CORRECT behaviors get reinforced. In my classes, I have found that doing so allows the dog to correct him/herself. I see it frequently with dogs whose owners are clear.

I will be happy to discuss this topic additionally for anyone interested.

[Julie Stephens]

Thanks Barb. I don’t do obedience with her but she is VERY focused on my movement and this is an issue with other things as well. I will focus on not moving. I already have a ‘side’ and ‘close command that she knows – although its a hand signal rather than verbal. We have been working on that separately. You are right she doesn’t need reinforcement for that now.
I also want her to be looking at the weaves (or any obstacle ) rather than me before I release her.
I found it a bit confusing with the 2 2×2 as to when I should move so will go back and look at your video and just look at how you move rather than the dog.
The treat I use us what I use for all training – its a dog roll that they don’t get any other time.
In your first week you talked about having a treat container – have you got any videos of how that works?
Potentially I could use raw meat which might have a higher value but I think if I stop rewarding the sit at the start then the poles will have more value.

[Julie Stephens]

So I went back to just 2 poles so I could get her focused on the poles rather than me
Back to 2 poles

Then the next session with 2 sets of 2 went better. Sorry you cant see me but you can tell by what Trix is doing that we are getting better:)

Week 2 step 1

[Barb Levenson]

Julie,
As I pulled up your video, the first thing I saw was the position of your hands. I caution all my students to put their hands in the position the dog will see on course. For Trix, you are signalling that you have food on you and I bet she focuses on it. If you could, keep food in your hands and keep them at your side.

Great heel position by the way. She jumped right in there and right into a sit. Well done.

I am sure you want me to tell you what I see. As she starts for the poles you reach into your pocket for the food. Could you have that ready in advance. I have found it to be a distraction to the dog. They look and almost ask “what are you doing?” Second one was great!!

And great waiting for focus forward on the poles.

I’m going to break here to offer you something to think about with Trix.
What is your ultimate criteria with weave poles? I want speed, accuracy, and drive down the reinforcement line. I have a video of Jack at 10 o’clock on my Facebook page. Here is the link for you and anyone else who wants to see. I am not in a hurry with him. I am more interested in the above criteria. Plus, learning to use the scooter is new and difficult for me. So I am setting us both up for precise definitions of criteria. I am using a very desirable reinforcement which is creating more and more desire on his part to gain reinforcement. It is classical conditioning at its best because Jack is offering and offering. What do you think?
https://www.facebook.com/Barb-Levenson-Dog-Training-Center-112953048733634/

[Julie Stephens]

Trix 4 straight poles

Trix is now so keen on the weaves she is not sitting. I will work on that away from the weaves (I can see I am doing way to much movement to get her into position).
Sorry its not the best video as you cant see me on the other side. lol but its all I have this week

[Barb Levenson]

Julie,
Awesome!! You’re starting to get speed!! I looked at 1 -4 rep and each one improved. See below:
One: while Trix is weaving you are moving both hands to get the food ready. I see her watch you making her distracted in the poles and slowing her down.
Two through 4: Your hands are behind your back and by 3-4 you are getting speed!! Yay!!! You must remain neutral and allow her to concentrate on her job and not worry about what you are doing. When you do that I can see your speed increasing and she is focused. Well done Julie.

OMT: Please try to reinforce with the hand closest to the dog. It will be less distracting to her and won’t be moving your shoulders.

Thank you for videoing. I hope this offers help to others. Just the smallest little thing can be a distraction. You’re getting it and I’m proud of you.

[Barb Levenson]

OK, another thing. It is that keenness that you want. Not sitting means she is loving the game. I am in a scooter and I allow Jack to stand and move into the poles. I don’t want to extinguish any of the drive.

I am in the process of writing an article for Barks from the Guild. In this article I discuss the use of dopamine, a feel-good hormone in training. You are starting to see her wanting to play and play more. This IS, in my opinion, a result of the training and reinforcement you are doing. Just be careful and keep her keen. With my program, offering weaves has more value for my dogs than any other obstacle. And it’s simply a result of what you are seeing with Twix.
Barb

[Julie Stephens]

Trix 4 plus 2 poles

here is us , doing random entries. I am quite happy with the way she is driving through

[Barb Levenson]

Oh Julie!!! I am over the moon with how Trix is doing. In every class I have taught there is one stand-out team who reads the handouts, asks good questions for feedback and knocks the course out of the park. That is you!!! Well done!!!! It’s all coming together.

[Julie Stephens]

Trix 6 weaves

Hi Barb. Hope you had a good Christmas. Here is Trix doing 6 weaves . I am pleased with this. How do you recommend we get to 12 poles? do we add another set of 6 or do you add 2 at a time? what are your thoughts?

Cheers
Julie

[Barb Levenson]

Julie,
I am so proud of what you have accomplished over the past 6 weeks. You are proof it can be done. One tiny suggestion as you move forward. When I was competing with my young dog in the beginning, I always looked at the courseto see the “time” of the entry on the clock. That enabled me to understand where I had to be to set my dog up as best I could. One other tip…Keep any eyes on your toes. Trix is really figuring things out. It would be helpful to her if you were to be consistent with your toes/body/shoulders so when you get on course it is a habit for you… and thereby her.

And here’s the answer to your question…. Set up the second set of 6 weaves as you did with each additional set of two’s. Don’t put them together until you are sure she is comfortable. Do everything as you did each time you added two poles.

The beauty of this program is by the time you are through, if you have followed ALL the worksheets and didn’t skip anything, you will have shown your dog every single entry they will ever see on a course. And running weave entries will become almost organic for your dog leaving you time to worry about other things. This is truly contingent on filling out every worksheet the way they are set up.

I wish you the very best of luck with Trix. She is a wonderful dog!!! Please stay in touch and keep me appraised of your successes. Use my email and not this site after a couple of weeks down the road.

Take good care and Happy New Year!!

Barb

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