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I totally agree on the NRM thing! Even though it’s not a NRM to ME, it is to the DOG. And that’s all that matters haha.
I keep forgetting to ask, were you able to find any flyball in my area? I’ve still come up empty from my inquiries.
Today we practiced the tunnel threadle. I added the cue a while ago but added in the arm and more distance and motion. Watching the video back, I think I used the wrong arm on the 2nd side of the first clip, Oops.
We took a little break then tried again with the toy. In the past, she has needed the preplaced reward to understand the turn away from me, so I was happy to see her get it with a toy!
I included the toy play at the end because she brought the toy back to me! At the end when she looked up at me, I’m not sure if she was asking me to animate the toy or if she was done.
Yesterday we had a rest day with just a fun solo trail walk. When I have both her and Lazlo she definitely is more energetic and goes harder, so I like to do a mix of solo and together walks.
Today we worked on serp vs threadle. She did really well! I’ll need to do the other side next. Was it ok to use the RT machine for this? Or should i just toss a treat? On her one error, I started to say something but then caught myself and shut up lol. I don’t think it’s a no reward marker so much as I’m responding conversationally to her, but regardless, I need to 🤐
Oh weird! I re-uploaded the video and it does work for me. I’ll post it again, but I have no problem just taking a week off from the skill!
We were supposed to have class today at our regular facility, but my instructor got covid 🙁 She let us use the time as a ring rental. She did really well with eating treats right away upon coming in the building and into the ring. I had a couple observations:
First Turn:
At 0:45 she seemed to lose the treat so that’s why I threw another one.
Around 1:15 there was a sound outside that seemed to concern her just a little bit.
Otherwise I think she did a great job switching food and toys and doing the exercises.
Second Turn:
Around 0:40 she wandered away, I think because there was a piece of meatball on the turf. I don’t know if she coughed it up earlier at some point or if I dropped it or what, but she seemed to want to find it. This surprised me a little haha because in the other couple of times, she has been more into the toys. After that she seemed a little distracted and not as engaged with the toy as she usually is. Maybe she was tired? Maybe there were other lost treats? Obviously not a huge deal haha, but something I observed.
When I clipped on the leash at the end, she really wanted to go sniff around the ring. I let her do this. I did reinforce with food when she checked in with me. Do you think that was ok?
Overall, I think she did amazing! We just did these 2 turns, then walked outside where she could sniff and look for sheep poo.
Rocking Horse with a toy is still sticky for her. Any advice? I think she was frustrated here when she stopped moving and didn’t wrap. I’m hesitant to try this in new locations because it still seems hard at home and with not much distance.
Should I keep the toy in my pocket for a bit?
I am doing some drop ins at another facility too. We’ve only done one so far a few weeks ago, but have another on Saturday. So she’s been to 3 different facilities. I’m also going to try her in Lazlo’s class. My instructor is awesome (Dana Nelson) and very adaptable so even though it’s an advanced agility class, she’ll let me do all the baby stuff with Vesper. That will be a familiar location but with more people and dogs.
We tried the backside slice again…hopefully I did what I was supposed to. I moved a little further away from the wing (position 2) but didn’t push it too much (pun not intended lol “pushhhh”)
Happy New Year!
Revisited threadle slices with your feedback in mind. This is the whole session, with some tugging in between sides I cut for time. The 2nd to last rep made me laugh haha! Smart girlie! I was glad to see the rep right after that was super easy for her even with a harder angle of approach.
To answer your question about my ring rental, no we were the only ones in the ring area. There were some people in the crate room setting up for a trial, so some voices and noise but no people or dogs in the ring space.
And to answer your question from the drop in class at the new facility, the instructor was Grace Huffman.
OK, trying this again!
“You also have a puppy who is more toy-motivated than food-motivated 🙂 And I think your history as a trainer has been more about using food, which is why it felt so weird, perhaps, to have a dog say “no thanks!” to incredible treats.”
Yes! I’m still not totally comfortable with toys haha. She’s also been very into food in all other situations, so it was really throwing me. On her off-leash walks, in stores, at the familiar agility location, etc. She’s always liked a variety of treats.
“Flip the script for a moment: if she was toy-motivated at home, but couldn’t tug in the new place (wandered away a bit when the toy was presented and could only eat), you would probably be pretty comfy with only using the food and have called the sessions a big win.”
Yes, absolutely. That was also my experience with Lazlo. He was sorta into toys at home, but that fell apart really quickly in any other location. FOOOOOOOOD has always been a super strong reinforcer for him, so I always felt just fine.
When I’m using toys at home with her, I am also using food. For example, I may reward her “out” with food, or use a cookie to lure her into position, or to toss a treat for a cookie reset. So if she won’t eat, I feel like I can’t use toys as effectively either. At least with where we are currently at with her training.
“She as totally engaged, not sniffing, her tail was wagging, play bowed, stuck with you when the leash came off. Then you offered food. Since food is not a big motivator in that context right now, she started exploring other options. You kept offering food, and she kept saying “no thanks.” You got the toy out… game on! She was fully engaged after that even in the in-between moments without the toy in her mouth.”
Ah, okay, I totally see that now! Definitely helped to rewatch the video with your commentary in mind.
“I don’t think she loved the play without the toy… yes, she was jumping up at you but then she moved away. The jumping up might have been frustration behavior.”
We play like this a lot at home. She jumps up, I push her off, she jumps right back up. But it may not have been what she was after in that moment and in that location. So definitely something to keep in mind for me.
“Did you ask her to chase a long toy that you were swinging around? Flip the script!”
No, I didn’t try doing this ringside, but I can certainly try it. Question: Since chasing and tugging is more physically taxing than eating food, will this tire her out before it’s her turn in the ring? The food pattern games seem to weave in acclimation so nicely. Does toy play offer her a chance to take in the environment as well?
I feel much better after reading your response and rewatching the videos. It’s not a cause for panic LOL.
We tried the backside slice game today. I think she did well, but I’m not sure I was doing the right thing. It feels weird to just stand still for a slice haha…I guess I feel like I need to be moving away for a slice and that standing still cues a wrap. So let me know if I wasn’t doing it correctly. Also our “jump bump” is kinda short…should I make something longer?
We did another ring rental at our regular facility today and she was great! Able to eat right away, tugged really well too. I noticed ahe had a harder time eating food after playing with her bunny fur toy. She could easily eat between playing with her other toys. We did a little parallel path with a real jump bump, a couple reps of rocking horse and a couple tunnels. She was very enthusiastic!
Ugh, I finally responded to all your insights on the in-person class experience, but the internet seems to have eaten it, argh! I’ll have to re-do it when I have time.
If it somehow shows up for you, let me know!
I just watched the video for the head turn exercise. For the advanced version, can you help me understand how it’s different from just a regular wrap, apart from the reward placement? Just want to be sure I’m not missing something!
I haven’t tried training outdoors since the baseball field situation, but I will put it on the schedule. Unfortunately I don’t have a yard so I have to go to public places to have more space outdoors.
We tried threadles today. At first she didn’t seem to understand to go over the bar. We stopped and played a chasey game with treats, which amped her up a bit and that seemed to help.
I think I’m moving too much though and not staying totally frozen in the pose.
Here is Rocking Horse, putting your suggestions into play.
And at the end I let her take the toy and she brought it back! Woohoo!
I swear I will come back to the in person class conversation lol!
But here’s a toy play session that made me really excited!
Started with back and forth with discs, since it’s a toy I have 2 of. I’ve introduced “alright” as my “I’m gonna let go, you’re free to take the toy and run around” cue. And she chose to bring it back!!! Omg! So cool!
Then we moved onto retrieves with her wubba. For whatever reason, she gives the most reliable retrieve with this toy. No idea why.
I’ve also had a couple sessions in the last few days where I’ve used “alright” with a long furry tug and she’s brought it back to me after a short run!
Feels like some things are clicking a bit with toys and returning them!
We also practiced serps but I forgot to hit record though. She was perfect with both the RT machine and her new giant fluffy tug toy sitting on the ground. We’ll add in some threadle sessions here and there.
I have so many thoughts regarding your response to my in person class video, but haven’t had time to sit down and write them out.
Today we revisited Rocking Horse. I was really trying to make connection and put my hair back so she could see my face. A little confusion, but some good stuff too!
Yesterday was a rest day, with just some playtime at home and a short neighborhood walk.
We attended the drop-in class at the new facility today and I’m kind of conflicted on how it went. I made some pork chops and chicken thighs and also brought some smoked cheese that she likes. She ate when she got out of the car. She was able to eat in the ringside space, but she wasn’t really into the food. She ate but I don’t think the food was really a strong reinforcer in that moment. I also brought 2 udder toys to try doing back and forth with toys but she didn’t want to play. She seemed excited and maybe a little anxious. Definitely wanted to say hi to the people and dogs. And to sniff around.
On our first turn, she really wasn’t interested in eating, either tossed food or from my hand. So then I pulled out her toy. I’m not sure if that was the right choice or not. She liked chasing the toy around. We did two restrained recalls to the toy and two cone wraps.
On our second turn, she was eating outside the ring, doing back and forth, but again I feel like she was not really into the food. Inside the ring, she again didn’t want to eat. She really wanted to sniff around. We did a couple tunnels with her toy and ended with some personal play.
I understand what you said about sniffing, and that it won’t always be realistic for acclimation. And having been to trials, I 100% agree, it’s not realistic. But I’ve always let my dogs sniff and then waited for them to engage with me to start the fun in settings where thats possible like rentals or class. Rather than trying to get them to engage even if their brain isn’t ready. At least with my past dogs, I’ve found that over time they don’t need to sniff anymore in these spaces because they’ve assessed that it’s safe and processes the info enough times.
So it did feel kinda yucky to me to sort of cajole her into engaging and working with me instead of letting her tell me she’s ready.
After a potty break and some rest in the car, I brought her in ringside one more time to see if she would be more into the treats, but she wasn’t. She was more interested in watching people and the dog in the ring, though we were as far away from the ring as we could get.
I’ve never had a dog that takes toys over food, so maybe that’s throwing me off. But I would like her to be able to eat in the ring. Though I was really pleased she was able to engage with the toy!
If I remember, the first resilience exercise was to let the dog walk around a space and just check it out, sniff, etc without using treats or toys. That’s my typical approach in new spaces. Can you explain a bit more why you’d still suggest immediate pattern games in a new space rather than letting them explore and take it in? Where would you do that sort of walk like you did with baby Ramen in the video?
Do you think I should continue bringing her into this kind of setting? Work on pattern games in other interesting (but not quite as interesting as agility) environments?
I included my videos, but I understand if it’s outside the scope of class.
Thank you so much!
“What type of food were you using?”
A mix of grilled chicken and ham.
“Next time, you can bring her in with a pattern game and see how she does without the sniffing first!”
So do I just say “get it” and toss a treat right away even if she’s not looking at me? What do I do if she ignores the treat?
Is there something “wrong” with letting her sniff or do you just want to see if she’s able to fall into the pattern more quickly the next time around? Like assessing her comfort level?
On Sunday we will go the a facility she’s never been to. I usually allow sniffing at first so she can acclimate and process the space before expecting her to get to work. Do you suggest that I try to start the pattern game immediately?
And yes, she slept for 4 hours after haha!
