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I think you’re awesome! Wish this class was running again when I actually have her! Thank you so much for everything!
to make use of this last week- I went though all the games to make sure I understood them. So I have a few with questions
Engaged Chill (to use outside the ring)- Do you have more examples – Since it seems food is lower arousal for Sadie- Ask if using the small snuffle mat for her as her “chill” but Id have to keep putting a treat in the mat correct? Or should I just teach her a behavior? Before- I would just have her at my side and I would have to keep feeding her and “attempting” to keep her attention so it doesn’t go to the dog or person next to us as we wait- if I use a snuffmat- would that create more guarding behavior? And if another dog grabs it?
Remote Reinforcement – Next steps
Step 1- Reward station- take a few steps away- ask for 1 trick- mark with “lets go” and run back to the reinforcement (Question: What if she learns the pattern and runs back before I get a chance to go with?Next Saturday is the day she comes home!
yes I have videos! just can’t post here. Sadie stayed engaged, transported with a toy, stayed in place. They did 1-4 obstacles with continued engagement with a toy in a probably 100×100 ring.
she comes home in 3 weeks! just as this class wraps up 🙂
So her breeder took her to a regulation agility place building. she did not run away once! she stayed engaged with her and the toy. Granted the sequencing wasn’t great but no running to the corners and sniffing. so big win! I know I’ll never know what *I* did wrong or if its just that she got older and she needed her arousal level increased to stay focused.
I will still be doing the games with her which I need to make a priority list- or do I just start from week one and do them? dont think it’ll take her long at all to learn them. We just have to generalize them. Looking forward to the last set of games! This has been a great class! think it was exactly what *I* needed. I also bought the Small space proofing 101 with the verbals while it was on sale. Going to need those verbals!yes AKC will be the main venue. Thats why I like that we dont need a very structured routine- because what if the leash runner still have the leash in their hand (and we use 4H kids a lot) while watching and just forgets..
Cant wait to look at Set 3 of the Games!
Just browsing the new games- Is Sadie all business or volume dial? Granted she doesn’t need MORE speed as you say in volume dial- but she needs to focus and engagement. All business- I feel like she doesn’t need MORE arousal as her head will explode like in the herding example where her behavior got way way up there and she started to bark and become frantic.
So Ive been getting updates from her breeder. She did about a 4 jump sequence at the breeders indoor area on mats- not a huge space like an agility ring- but decent. She started with tugging- Sadie looked like a different dog! She was engaged and ready to go with her breeder. They transported to the first jump by tugging- then she got rewarded by a tug in hand and a toy thrown. Pretty excited to see that but hope I can get it. Breeder started by taking Sadie to different places and playing and engaging her with a toy and play- She said that is what was missing with Sadie and why she couldn’t maintain focus in a new environment like the agility ring.
Loving all these games so far! I think they’ll help us tremendously. I think using food with the pattern games before we go in the ring and at the very very end of the “routine” so returning to her crate. But want to continue using the toy for engagement and rewarding ON the course- so I can use FEO more efficiently. When training, I think I want to use the toy as the target instead of the mat.I know I probably shouldn’t have a “plan” or “routine”
Any thoughts? Looking forward to the next set of games
so that End of the Run Part 1 is EXACTLY what Ive been trying to figure out in my head! I love that! Wish I could go get here and do it. Love the find my face game as well..
But there is no downloadable PDF for the End of Run Part 1.. is that just an oversight.
So excited to do all these with her!
I appreciate your words sooo much and you very thought out responses!
We will also emphasize coping skills because we humans mess up our handling and also because we bring the dogs into all sorts of new environments, so coping skills and self-regulation are key! And with adolescents, it is a bit up-down-sideways-backwards for a while but then it comes together beautifully as the pups grow up. <— yes she’ll need to cope with my inability and learning how to handle a border collie.
So when is adolescents over? hah.. She’ll learn a lot at her breeders- Breeders main focus is a recall- she does a lot of off leash hiking and stuff (I do not, just not our lifestyle)- but it’ll be helpful im sure! Kinda afraid of her coming back demanding miles and miles of exercise daily or a different dog.. I have worse separation anxiety than she does.. she’s having the time of her life!
I will follow those border collies! I also remember reading one that has difficulty being caught at the end
Again I appreciate you!
So I took Sadie to her breeder today- we met at her herding lesson. Sadie got a lesson- just for the heck of it. Her breeder handled her since I have no idea what Im doing. She’s never seen sheep so whatever.
Amyway- I saw pretty much the exact same behavior we are seeing in agility. just running and running- she would get on the sheep then fall back- barking at them- running the opposite direction and laying down. The instructor stated that she would get it if we went ahead with it (we’re not) but she didn’t know what to do with them which caused the barking and running around. Her breeder stated that she can’t handle pressure very well either.
I can’t help but think its something I did or didn’t do when she was younger? especially the can’t handle pressure part? will we learn some games for that? or is that just the breed? lack of confidence?
>>yes- the indoor lesson instructor said it would be best if she stayed in one environment, so whatever..
I disagree, I think the pups should be in all sorts of different environments! So the more places you can get her into, the better 🙂 I think you and I are on the same page with that 🙂
++++++Ugh exactly what I was thinking- I admit I cried a bit.. I was so sad
>>Regarding the mat- yes sometimes we go to the mat- and run again and so on! just the mat helps her understanding, it seems- just can’t seem to get rid of that as I think I/we dont know how to end appropriately.>>
No worries! The mat will eventually move outside the ring (I hav a game for that) and the leash will replace the mat. Fun times ahead!
+++++ yes this was my plan as well! so excited to actually have direction/games to move that in the correct direction!
++Can’t wait to see everything come together! She goes to her breeder Saturday (:((( ) but my surgery is not until the 6th of November. We have our (my local club) final agility trial of the year nov 3-5 so I wouldn’t have time to bring her to her breeder before hand. and it keeps me from entering her as well… I would be tempted since I have free entries! Then Im really hoping I can get her back in about a month, but 6 weeks for-sure
Food is powerful EVERYWHERE! Only time she wouldn’t take food was like in a pet store or inside a store in a new enviornment, but it does not take her long to assimulate to taking food. sometimes the type of food I use though- so at our outside lesson we went from Cheese to Freeze dried chicken hearts because cheese stopped working outside- cheese would work indoors. There’s still times she’ll disengage from the chicken hearts- my trainer calls it that her brain is too full- so she’s just done. She’s not one of those border collies that can keep doing the same thing over and over again.
yes- the indoor lesson instructor said it would be best if she stayed in one environment, so whatever..but we learned so so much there as we finally got her to focus- all her obstacle performance were trained there. My local club is being very supportive though! Especially when they remembered back when their dogs were young and doing the same thing! So often we forget when our dogs were babies when we’re up in Master level!.. we just dont have an indoor place to practice all the time. I was just talking about her being in season as a reason we had to stop going to the run thurs recently. indoor sessions only happen every once in a while so I was a bit upset that we have to miss them.
Regarding the mat- yes sometimes we go to the mat- and run again and so on! just the mat helps her understanding, it seems- just can’t seem to get rid of that as I think I/we dont know how to end appropriately.
Yes she can do all the things very fast and focused in the house/backyard. I can work the weaves in the backyard and she nails them- we’re even taking a jump then weaving in the back yard. She can be sent to the weaves laterally in the backyard.. but its small- the bigger the ring, the harder time she has- so we literally have to train in a regulation ring to make ANY progress.
I did have a question about the Volume dial game- so she can go from tug tug tug, we out the toy- then I down her and she listens and sit theres and waits for me to do it again. How do I know she’s NOT still over aroused? like she’s anticipating the game now so she’s downing because thats what I said, but her insides are still over aroused?
I really appreciate answering all these questions! This is so helpful and I think once I get her back from the breeder (she goes Saturday :(( ) after my surgery, Im hoping to have a nice game plan! Im hoping to get her back once I can at least walk so maybe I’ll have her back before this class ends!
Hi! I’m excited to plan for her return to the ring! -MY REPLIES ARE IN CAPS
>>The recent ones- she did not care that I had a toy. Im not exactly sure what im asking here… but maybe should I still carry a toy even if she does not care about it at all. To stop in the middle of a “focused” run for a toy I think will cause her to run around. No idea if that makes sense. We haven’t had that many successful FEO runs>>
I think what your describing is Border Collie adolescent Overarousal 🙂 but I have more questions to be sure:
– at home and in class, will she play with a toy and/or eat treats away from the ring and not near equipment? YES! EVEN AS FAR AS RIGHT BEFORE STEPPING IN THE RING SHE’LL TAKE FOOD- IF I COULD TAKE FOOD IN THE RING WITH ME- FOOD WOULD WORK JUST FINE TO KEEP HER ATTENTION IN THE RING- TOYS NOT SO MUCH BUT! SHE’LL PLAY WITH TOYS OUTSIDE THE RING/BY HER CRATE- NO PROBLEM AT ALL. TOYS ARE NOT THAT POWERFUL ONCE IN THE RING AND OFF LEASH. I KNOW I CHANGE ONCE WE CROSS THAT THRESHHOLD OF THE GATE AS IM AFRID SHES JUST GOING TO RUN AROUND- SO IM SO NERVOUS! AND SHES A BIT SENSITIVE
-at class, do you use food rewards or toys in your turns on course?
SO WE HAVENT REALLY BEEN IN A CLASS SINCE SHE WAS 16 MONTHS OLD? I THINK. I DROVE 2 HOURS TO A CLASS WEEKLY JUST TO GET INTO A CLASS ON TURF- BUT INSTRUCTOR TOLD US NOT TO COME DUE TO TAKING LOCAL PRIVATE LESSONS OUTSIDE. BUT I USED FOOD (product of training dachshunds I think)About the not coming back at the end… do you see this anywhere else with her? I can relate – when my Contraband was about 18 months old, he showed distinct signs of NOT coming back at the end LOL! He would take his frisbee and go live feral under a tree at my house LOL!
So I worked him through it is a top priority before putting him in the ring, with 3 parts to it: YES! WHEN WE TOOK ABOUT 4 MONTHS OF CLASS ON TURF- IT TOOK ME WALKING AROUND THE RING BEFORE CLASS TO CLICK/TREAT HER ATTENTION- EVENTUALLY I COULD TAKE HER OFF LEAD AND SHE WOULD BE FOCUSED ON M/WITH ME- BUT NOW- THINK WE STOPPED AROUND AUGUST GOING TO CLASS- WE WERE JUST GETTING TO HANDLING AND SHE WAS DOING AMAZING!
BEFORE SHE CAME IN SEASON 🙁 WE WERE DOING RUN THRUS WITH OUR AGILITY CLUB AT THE SOCCER PLACE WE TRIAL AT. WE USED A BOX/MAT LIKE A TARGET FOR HER TO GO TO- AND SHE DID REALLY REALLY WELL. ONLY RAN OFF ONCE WHEN I TRIED TO GET HER TO DO HER WEAVES IN THE RING (SHE CAN WEAVE)-ASSUMING THE ENVIRONMENT WAS TOO HARD FOR THAT. THINK THE WEEK BEFORE SHE CAME INTO HEAT- WE GOT UP TO 9 OBSTACLES WITH FOCUS – FELT AMAZING! SHE WAS “CAUGHT” THEN BECAUSE I HAD THE MAT THERE WHERE I COULD SEND HER AND SHE WOULD STAY AND I COULD LEASH HER UP.– teach arousal regulation-
– get useful reinforcement and motivators to use in the ring
– work specifically on the end of run behaviorTHINK THIS IS WHAT WE NEED- WELL WE NEED ALL 3 OF THESE. SHE’LL HAVE TIME FOR HER BRAIN TO MATURE- AS WE WONT DO MUCH OF ANYTHING AGILITY WISE/RING WISE UNTIL FEBRUARY- SHE’LL BE 23 MONTHS THEN. BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AN END BEHAVIOR- BUT NO IDEA HOW TO TEACH THAT OR PRACTICE THAT SINCE WE DONT HAVE ACCESS TO A INDOOR RING ALL THE TIME- OUR CLUB DOES HAVE AN OUTSIDE RING SET UP WE CAN USE- BUT OUTSIDE IS SOOOOOOO DIFFERENT THAN ON TURF. BUT AT OUR OUTDOOR RING SHE’S DOING SO MUCH BETTER, BUT STILL RUNS ESPECIALLY ONCE WE GET THERE. BUT ITS NOT RUN RUN RUN RUN ALL THE TIME LIKE SHE DID WHEN SHE WAS 15 MONTHS OLD.
And also letting the adolescent brain mature a bit 🙂
All of these are on our agenda coming soon. Definitely let me know how the pattern games and volume dial are going!
THOSE ARE GOING GREAT! ONLY TRIED THEM AT HOME- SO GOTTA GET HER OUTSIDE A BIT THIS WEEK, EVEN IF ITS THE FRONT YARD AS FRONT YARD IS VERY DISTRACTING. IF SHE CANT FOCUS IN THE FRONT YARD- SO WE GO TO LIKE THE FRONT PORCH OR DO I WAIT UTNIL SHES “READY”Sorry for all the caps! Looks like Im yelling- I just wanted to make sure it all didn’t run today and didn’t know how to change colors! Thank you so much!
Let me know what you think!
Tracyso looking at the FEO information- we’ve been doing some FEO runs, but she wont leave the ring without being “caught” by a ring crew. So we stopped doing FEO runs until we’re both more confident. and Im more confident that I can get her out of the ring without her going to someone else.
The recent ones- she did not care that I had a toy. Im not exactly sure what im asking here… but maybe should I still carry a toy even if she does not care about it at all. To stop in the middle of a “focused” run for a toy I think will cause her to run around. No idea if that makes sense. We haven’t had that many successful FEO runs.
I only have her for 1 more week- so really just planning more when I recover from surgery
