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Hi
Thanks for that
He has been good on lead walking into and around the ring for the last eight trials with no pulling on lead (about 46 times)- managing to sit etc. But since then we have introduced some doing equipment at home so when we were doing no equipment he was managing to walk and respond to behaviours ie sit do tricks etc. Then at last two shows I have put him over practise jumps with no issues (still did walking into ring etc on lead for a range of classes). I am not sure what the difference was here (apart from me) in this is the first time for ages I have had the pulling on lead in the ring.
Since starting to do obstacles again having several issues- he is struggling to sit and struggling being on lead. I agree about the collar holding but I also dont want him just taking obstacles at random as this also builds frustration. At our talk I would like to talk about the lead issue that has reared its head again since starting back on equipment. I feel as if this is following the same pattern as when started training. when I first trained him I used shadow handling and a bowl for reward.
In this video- we havent done much as we were both stressed this week. If I dont hold his collar he is taking agility equipment. If I put a lead on he is fighting (see video) that if he thinks there is any possibility he can go over equipment. If I just walk him around he is fine. He was starting to ramp up if I put the snuffle mat out so I have done alot of just feeding him from the snuffle mat and doing nothing else by equipment. But I am feeling resistance as in okay I will eat can I now go do something.. (okay I dont know whether that is what he is thinking but that is what it looks like). I was feeding on snuffle mat for up to five minutes between reps at home but had trouble getting him to stay eating- he would eat a bit and want to leave and do a tunnel or a jump. The interesting thing is that in more high pressure places he has a different attitude – he wants it and I see him start to relax as he eats. At home I am getting abit of the opposite.
At homewood (not home) I brought out a toy- believe it or not he is more toy orientated as I felt he was shutting down on me. I am not sure this was the right thing to do. Previously I went to a trainer where we did alot of one obstacle then mat work and he started to avoid the mat (he still avoids the mat if I try and do it near agility equipment- I felt that trying to relax on the mat he felt too much pressure even when quite a distance. while before that he was happy relaxing on his mat next to ring.
I havent had any bounces this week. But I am also seeing the stressing down more – always before he has actually enjoyed agility between the frustration. I wonder whether I should allow him to ramp up a little bit. When he is running loose his face when he does a few obstacles at speed makes my heart sing- I am not seeing that when we are training at the moment. Struggling to find that middle ground with keeping him so under control he is not having fun and having him go too high and getting the frustration
Video shows lead issue- I did a lot of shadow handling and worked his tricks after this. I am still doing all the other exercises away from equipment and have spent quite abit of time this week working around equipment again.
Sorry about long message but I am confused and conflicted as feel as if going backwards and in circles. Hopefully we can talk some of this through tomorrow
Beverley
PS yes I think I built in the frustration to agility but think alot of it was partly there because of my inability to do much with him at critical stages . Interestingly we worked sheep with him once before I started agility training and the same behaviours showed in that he got angry when the sheep didnt do what he wanted immediately. Sometimes think he sees me as one of those nauughty sheep not going and doing what he wants..week 4 homework
Tunnel
I had to start super close so as not to get a boil over. In addition it was easier in one direction. I have also done a session with me further up the tunnel similar result but video didnt get turned on. But using a tunnel is going to be slow for a while
two jumps
He wasnt very settled this time- alot of dogs and activity in kennels. It was also super hot.
Ring
I have been doing alot of work in and out of the rings- lead on lead off with a second lead etc and run out to snuffle mat he has got very settled with this although still on his toes. Very friendly show so thought I would add a jump in. (first bit of video ignore a just for me he was lying in the holding area while I got organised very relaxed. I was nervous about putting him over a jump and organising somebody to make sure food in mat plus final jump along way from holding area (holding area- no other dogs but can have food) – he obviously picked up on this as he went up into the bottom of the red zone- but I still got a sit. I let him go over a jump but no clear directions so took another and then he went okay and headed to snuffle mat. was pleased he didnt explode and changed back down to yellow. This is the first time I have seen him start to go off the scale and control it. I know it wasnt ideal and alot to keep working onAm going to start recording on a numeric scale from 1 to 12 . 1 being close to ideal and over 12 being off his head and no longer in control as I am starting to see gradations as opposed to extremes. In additon I will take note of how fast he drops back down and whether he does it or I have to interven.
So around the ring and in holding area with food he is about a 1-2. In ring no food on lead about 2-3. Taking lead off and on or asking for a wait before a jump about a 3-4. Doing two jumps ranges from 5-8 occasionally to a 10. Tunnel at what doing from a 7 to 10. Taking a jump off lead about a 10. Before he spent alot of time at 12 or over.
Hi Bobbie
re what talked in session. here are the videos of going from sunuffle mat to the tunnel. I didnt ask for it – he dived to tunnel so didnt think that was a good thing
first two times I went up the tunnel and he didnt go back to snuffle mat but no leaping at me either. Other two I stayed at snuffle mat asked him to do snuffle mat. again no leaping.
only leaping was when I took him to the far ed of the tunnel and sent him to snuffle mat – realise it was too far away even though at the end it was not much more than a metre. I realise relooking at videso I was totally stationary and also probably where he expected me to be.All in all as said previously was avery short session as I was not happy with what was happening.
As talked about previously I am concerned that I am creating patterns of behaviour (not proper patterns) 1. which is talked about is snuffle needs to be where he expects it or he gets mad. and that once he has had some food out of snuffle mat he can do agility equipment- leaves food in mat. This is relatively new in terms of snuffle mat – noticed with tunnel here but seen it on jumps before . Not sure whether this is starting to get back into loop of agility equipment must do if off lead.
Yes we have being doing this game alot. It works great outside the ring or in holding area and i can get it around agility equipment. Can sort of get a jump to a bowl but much poorer than snuffle mat and working on doing this consistently but he doesnt seem to get it yet. Will try to get video of this if the rain ever stops as part of next video.
My training at moment consists of the following I try to do every day but reality 5 days a week- mat relaxation, shadow handling, snuffle mat work, pattern games mainly treat toss and plates, find my face on flat. Most of this is inside but try and do outside and at least two other places each day.
It is show season here so competitions usually evry second weekend when doing work around ring and in holding area. This consists of shadow handling, snuffle work and plate game with two plates, some treat toss.
plus mat work away from ring. Not sure whether should start putting him over the end jump in a show environment yet or not. Or how I should be slowly extending what I am doing to involve more activity. He is definitely settled around the ring – I am worried when introduce equipment that it might fall apart. as speed and equipment previously resulted in the overarousal.Then sniffying and decompression followng shows and usually at some point other weeks. although they get alot around my property as standard.
So here is my week 2 video. I have done alot with two plates (not presented) as in a competition easy to do two plates but hard to get a clear area for more. Have presented the videos around the plate game using more plates which veloz has done less of. Has been wet as you can see in one video. Also at two other locations. I havent put alot of me moving around agility equipment as found this results in fall out at the moment and usually only a couple obstacles. Note usually about six plates around so that hopefully no matter what we do there is a plate close. Not sure whether I have got the right idea of incorporating the plates into the agility equipment but think this is how you talked about it in the zoom meeting in previous class. I start every session just doing plates not doing any equipment.
Hi I know you said not to post video until you had given feedback on previous video. But it is now the end of week 3 so thought I should post week 3 video. But hopefully by putting in the same message you can find for when you get time to watch.
This training was done after the last talk. Veloz is good at switching between toy and mat in most environments. So was thinking about how I slowly transition. First part of video wasnt really planned but I kept going because it was working. The second dog is my young dog who did throw a spanner in works by stealing snuffle mat so switched to a bowl. I had expected fusion to just cruise but she wanted in and this did lift veloz abit more but once he understood was actually quite settled. didnt leave longer periods on snuffle mat in. Second was a small local show just off the ring (so he does have a long line on just in case) The thng this taught me is that there had better be food in the snuffle mat in this situation. When I have had him in the ring but no requipment and run out to the snuffle mat he has been quite happy to wait. but here he wasnt. I am hoping to do one jump out to the snuffle mat next weekend at the next show just once. I used jumps as the tunnel is associated with flare ups still I just put a little of this in at the end when I tried to do tunnel work today. He could do the tunnel away from the snuffle and run back to nuffle but he couldnt find it when he came out of the tunnel. might do more work with just jumps and then try again perhaps with snuffle mat in the very entrance of the tunnel. I think the tunnel is because the connection is broken. I am trying to keep the equipment low key so low jumps, little movement from me and very simple. As even on the first two bits with jumps his arousal was lifted. Interestingly though even the presence of agility equipment is arosing if he thinks he might be able to do some. when just working around equipment is fine until he gets to do something. I do struggle to slowly lift this as soon as he starts to run he goes into amber. Not far to fiery red from there so at the moment tunnels, too many obstacles, speed, me moving, too long, anything that requires him to think send him fiery red. The environment (apart from me running and stressing) has less effect.
catch up tomorrow
Hi
here is a taste of where we are at.
Video has some of the sorts of things I have been doing moving the snuffle mat- started adding ability of go around to add in a little more movement. also what I have been doing with a jump and tunnel. This is the point at which we are struggling- as soon as add movement from me or more speed with veloz start to get break down so have been sticking as this very simple at the moment.
The stuff by the ring was towards the end of the show at weekend so was session number 7 for weekend- he was starting to get tired but no video of earlier. I got the martingale lead on friday so had done minimal practise . This needs more work both for my mechanics and his understanding as was starting to hit resistance (but amazing considering I had a manic on my hand before when every tried to put lead on or off). A lttle resistant to sit but think that was because he was tired and is still a behaviour in development. But every show I finding that he is ready to do more. Even before christmas the thought of him sitting in the ring would have been laughed at.
I did do shadow handling and pattern games- food toss around the rings and in the holding areas as well and he understands these well.
Things like mat work and pattern games are all working well and definitely change his state of mind.But the big next thing is how to introduce the agility equipment back while keeping this calmness. I am not sure how to do this – almost scared to try. I have started to put in the odd wing wrap around the ring. I need to work on a plan for my home training on doing this. one of other things I need to think about is my next show is in two weeks > i have him entered for one class – my dream is to put him over the last jump to a snuffle mat. But the show manager is open to me doing anything that doesnt cause an issue ( ie no food in ring and cant hold up flow ) but most other things could do. Most show managers not that generous. So need to think if any thing extra want to do.
sorry for ramble- I do have a tendency to over think things – the nerdy side of me…
My apologies I just wasnt sure what I was supposed to be doing over the first week. But will wait for feedback on what we have been going.
Beverley
Thanks
will put in my calendar. Yes I was pleased as in the ring and holding area is also closer to equipment than we were getting before.
have a show this weekend what do you suggest
Beverley
Many thanks. Love the shifts in thinking although still getting my head around them. Thanks for answering all my questions while I tried to get things straight.
Beverley
Okay i will try and use ability vs skill to deferientate . The bit i am struggling with is whether you stay at the same level or introduce difficulty and when you introduce the next steps. With a skill you start to ontroduce difficulty as dog understands the skill with times of easy as well. Here i am not sure when to add on the next step when trying to reprogramme brain.lots of thrse games we have done very similar things previously not quite the same. For example at shows over last 12 months and before veloz gets to do shadow handling, find tteat in towel, mat work two toy pattern games beside ring so he is quite comfortable doing this. We also do this alot when ever we go out. I realise a few tweaks but how do i know when we should add the next steps of doing it in a holding area if it is not when he is comfortable doing it other places. I realise we need to cement this and it may take month but withoit an idea of how or when to progress then we will never move any further. So this was where my question about progression came from. So progression in terms of locations for things like where practise snuffle mat and difficulty for plate game ie when put a second jump onto picture etc.
Okay yes we play the two toy game alot with veloz . I suppose i have been more focused on the plate pattern game as that was new and i like the way you used it in the ring so was thinking of how to use toy in that sense. But will go back to the two toy game for potentisl use in holding area.
Yes i am not sure why i was so slow with treats i think treats were abit hatd and veliz was taking a while to chew them.
I undersyand dogs are good on context but if i dont understand differen es in concept i M not dure how veloz can. When added a verbal cue for plate or mat success rate went way up for all my dogs.
Firstly I would like to say how much I have appreciated the lives- they have added so much clarity. Loved the comment about importance of state of mind with rest. I have always used a go sniff cue when walking on casual walk this means the walk is yours – speed, sniffing, direction as feel it gives clarity as to when they need to walk with me and when the walk is theirs.
When practicing Modulating Emotions, please use food for the Relaxation part of the game. It’s not just about cueing the dog to lay down–that’s a skill, not about shifting the internal state.
yes sorry I picked that up when re checked instructions and after watching on of the lives and did it for the next sessions.Sorry I didnt mean I wasnt doing these things in other locations- we are doing the relaxation work daily plus most of the games as part of the day somewhere. Most of the time around house or front lawn as weather has been shocking. But at least twice a week off the property and at least once a week some where else on my property. I only put up videos of where challeneges happening or first sessions. have put some other videos bottom of this post
Questions
I am struggling with difference between training a skill and developing resiliance. isnt resiliance a skill also as we want to develop it even if it takes much longer. I think I understand ….then my training brain takes over. I do understand about the relaxation on mat, snuffle game and even the shadow handling but struggle when it comes to incorporating the pattern game into the agility training
really like the idea of introducing the plate game into the agility context but havent my head around the mechanicsFor both the mat plus toy and plate game- how does the dog know what is wanted if you dont give a cue( verbal or body) . My dogs are used to playing tug release when you sit or down game continues so they immediately offer this when playing tug and ask for a release (or stop the tugging) rather than go to the mat see video. My dogs are used to ignoring food in a dish on the ground around agility equipment so how do they know they can go to dish if no cue- many of my cues are verbal. But if I use a verbal then it is a trained skill.. sorry I know I over think things but I want to get the mechanics right
Next question – how is the best way to introduce toys into pattern games
Next question- how do we know when to progress things in addition to keeping up the easy stuff like in the living area or is that turning it into a skill again..
Trying to make sure I understand so that we can progress in the longer term as if I have managed the concepts then veloz will manage.
FYI Attached some videos of some of our sessions at local park. Live rural so not alot of activity locally.
plate pattern work at local park
treat toss park
shadow handling local park
a small amount of find my face I havent been doing alot of this
