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Yes we have being doing this game alot. It works great outside the ring or in holding area and i can get it around agility equipment. Can sort of get a jump to a bowl but much poorer than snuffle mat and working on doing this consistently but he doesnt seem to get it yet. Will try to get video of this if the rain ever stops as part of next video.
My training at moment consists of the following I try to do every day but reality 5 days a week- mat relaxation, shadow handling, snuffle mat work, pattern games mainly treat toss and plates, find my face on flat. Most of this is inside but try and do outside and at least two other places each day.
It is show season here so competitions usually evry second weekend when doing work around ring and in holding area. This consists of shadow handling, snuffle work and plate game with two plates, some treat toss.
plus mat work away from ring. Not sure whether should start putting him over the end jump in a show environment yet or not. Or how I should be slowly extending what I am doing to involve more activity. He is definitely settled around the ring – I am worried when introduce equipment that it might fall apart. as speed and equipment previously resulted in the overarousal.Then sniffying and decompression followng shows and usually at some point other weeks. although they get alot around my property as standard.
So here is my week 2 video. I have done alot with two plates (not presented) as in a competition easy to do two plates but hard to get a clear area for more. Have presented the videos around the plate game using more plates which veloz has done less of. Has been wet as you can see in one video. Also at two other locations. I havent put alot of me moving around agility equipment as found this results in fall out at the moment and usually only a couple obstacles. Note usually about six plates around so that hopefully no matter what we do there is a plate close. Not sure whether I have got the right idea of incorporating the plates into the agility equipment but think this is how you talked about it in the zoom meeting in previous class. I start every session just doing plates not doing any equipment.
Hi I know you said not to post video until you had given feedback on previous video. But it is now the end of week 3 so thought I should post week 3 video. But hopefully by putting in the same message you can find for when you get time to watch.
This training was done after the last talk. Veloz is good at switching between toy and mat in most environments. So was thinking about how I slowly transition. First part of video wasnt really planned but I kept going because it was working. The second dog is my young dog who did throw a spanner in works by stealing snuffle mat so switched to a bowl. I had expected fusion to just cruise but she wanted in and this did lift veloz abit more but once he understood was actually quite settled. didnt leave longer periods on snuffle mat in. Second was a small local show just off the ring (so he does have a long line on just in case) The thng this taught me is that there had better be food in the snuffle mat in this situation. When I have had him in the ring but no requipment and run out to the snuffle mat he has been quite happy to wait. but here he wasnt. I am hoping to do one jump out to the snuffle mat next weekend at the next show just once. I used jumps as the tunnel is associated with flare ups still I just put a little of this in at the end when I tried to do tunnel work today. He could do the tunnel away from the snuffle and run back to nuffle but he couldnt find it when he came out of the tunnel. might do more work with just jumps and then try again perhaps with snuffle mat in the very entrance of the tunnel. I think the tunnel is because the connection is broken. I am trying to keep the equipment low key so low jumps, little movement from me and very simple. As even on the first two bits with jumps his arousal was lifted. Interestingly though even the presence of agility equipment is arosing if he thinks he might be able to do some. when just working around equipment is fine until he gets to do something. I do struggle to slowly lift this as soon as he starts to run he goes into amber. Not far to fiery red from there so at the moment tunnels, too many obstacles, speed, me moving, too long, anything that requires him to think send him fiery red. The environment (apart from me running and stressing) has less effect.
catch up tomorrow
Hi
here is a taste of where we are at.
Video has some of the sorts of things I have been doing moving the snuffle mat- started adding ability of go around to add in a little more movement. also what I have been doing with a jump and tunnel. This is the point at which we are struggling- as soon as add movement from me or more speed with veloz start to get break down so have been sticking as this very simple at the moment.
The stuff by the ring was towards the end of the show at weekend so was session number 7 for weekend- he was starting to get tired but no video of earlier. I got the martingale lead on friday so had done minimal practise . This needs more work both for my mechanics and his understanding as was starting to hit resistance (but amazing considering I had a manic on my hand before when every tried to put lead on or off). A lttle resistant to sit but think that was because he was tired and is still a behaviour in development. But every show I finding that he is ready to do more. Even before christmas the thought of him sitting in the ring would have been laughed at.
I did do shadow handling and pattern games- food toss around the rings and in the holding areas as well and he understands these well.
Things like mat work and pattern games are all working well and definitely change his state of mind.But the big next thing is how to introduce the agility equipment back while keeping this calmness. I am not sure how to do this – almost scared to try. I have started to put in the odd wing wrap around the ring. I need to work on a plan for my home training on doing this. one of other things I need to think about is my next show is in two weeks > i have him entered for one class – my dream is to put him over the last jump to a snuffle mat. But the show manager is open to me doing anything that doesnt cause an issue ( ie no food in ring and cant hold up flow ) but most other things could do. Most show managers not that generous. So need to think if any thing extra want to do.
sorry for ramble- I do have a tendency to over think things – the nerdy side of me…
My apologies I just wasnt sure what I was supposed to be doing over the first week. But will wait for feedback on what we have been going.
Beverley
Thanks
will put in my calendar. Yes I was pleased as in the ring and holding area is also closer to equipment than we were getting before.
have a show this weekend what do you suggest
Beverley
Many thanks. Love the shifts in thinking although still getting my head around them. Thanks for answering all my questions while I tried to get things straight.
Beverley
Okay i will try and use ability vs skill to deferientate . The bit i am struggling with is whether you stay at the same level or introduce difficulty and when you introduce the next steps. With a skill you start to ontroduce difficulty as dog understands the skill with times of easy as well. Here i am not sure when to add on the next step when trying to reprogramme brain.lots of thrse games we have done very similar things previously not quite the same. For example at shows over last 12 months and before veloz gets to do shadow handling, find tteat in towel, mat work two toy pattern games beside ring so he is quite comfortable doing this. We also do this alot when ever we go out. I realise a few tweaks but how do i know when we should add the next steps of doing it in a holding area if it is not when he is comfortable doing it other places. I realise we need to cement this and it may take month but withoit an idea of how or when to progress then we will never move any further. So this was where my question about progression came from. So progression in terms of locations for things like where practise snuffle mat and difficulty for plate game ie when put a second jump onto picture etc.
Okay yes we play the two toy game alot with veloz . I suppose i have been more focused on the plate pattern game as that was new and i like the way you used it in the ring so was thinking of how to use toy in that sense. But will go back to the two toy game for potentisl use in holding area.
Yes i am not sure why i was so slow with treats i think treats were abit hatd and veliz was taking a while to chew them.
I undersyand dogs are good on context but if i dont understand differen es in concept i M not dure how veloz can. When added a verbal cue for plate or mat success rate went way up for all my dogs.
Firstly I would like to say how much I have appreciated the lives- they have added so much clarity. Loved the comment about importance of state of mind with rest. I have always used a go sniff cue when walking on casual walk this means the walk is yours – speed, sniffing, direction as feel it gives clarity as to when they need to walk with me and when the walk is theirs.
When practicing Modulating Emotions, please use food for the Relaxation part of the game. It’s not just about cueing the dog to lay down–that’s a skill, not about shifting the internal state.
yes sorry I picked that up when re checked instructions and after watching on of the lives and did it for the next sessions.Sorry I didnt mean I wasnt doing these things in other locations- we are doing the relaxation work daily plus most of the games as part of the day somewhere. Most of the time around house or front lawn as weather has been shocking. But at least twice a week off the property and at least once a week some where else on my property. I only put up videos of where challeneges happening or first sessions. have put some other videos bottom of this post
Questions
I am struggling with difference between training a skill and developing resiliance. isnt resiliance a skill also as we want to develop it even if it takes much longer. I think I understand ….then my training brain takes over. I do understand about the relaxation on mat, snuffle game and even the shadow handling but struggle when it comes to incorporating the pattern game into the agility training
really like the idea of introducing the plate game into the agility context but havent my head around the mechanicsFor both the mat plus toy and plate game- how does the dog know what is wanted if you dont give a cue( verbal or body) . My dogs are used to playing tug release when you sit or down game continues so they immediately offer this when playing tug and ask for a release (or stop the tugging) rather than go to the mat see video. My dogs are used to ignoring food in a dish on the ground around agility equipment so how do they know they can go to dish if no cue- many of my cues are verbal. But if I use a verbal then it is a trained skill.. sorry I know I over think things but I want to get the mechanics right
Next question – how is the best way to introduce toys into pattern games
Next question- how do we know when to progress things in addition to keeping up the easy stuff like in the living area or is that turning it into a skill again..
Trying to make sure I understand so that we can progress in the longer term as if I have managed the concepts then veloz will manage.
FYI Attached some videos of some of our sessions at local park. Live rural so not alot of activity locally.
plate pattern work at local park
treat toss park
shadow handling local park
a small amount of find my face I havent been doing alot of this
Can you visit parks or other busier areas to practice some of the games? Other than trials?
I have been doing these games in multiple places – live rural so not many busy places. The reality is that he doesnt struggle most places- park with other dogs, carparks. The struggle comes when agility equipment
My order for easeis
home inside
homeoutside no equipment
local park
carpark
me working another dog
then
agility equipment my place
agi;lity equipment other places
agility equipment friends (hard at moment as most people not training as too wet)
at an agility competition
next to a ring at agilitythen big step up to next
me running another dog at agility (this is hard as needs a another person who can work him)
going into holding area
going into ring
doing agility in ringI have been doing the local park , other places and around equipment at least daily since early on. Shadow handling has always been part of our regular rountine and some mat work. I thought he did well next to the ring when it was running- only issue was when a dog that can be pushy came out of the ring and I moved Veloz to be safe – video only of rug and snuffle but also did shadow handling, the plate pattern game and just lying on the mat.
So decided to try the next one down which was enter the holding area when no dogs running.
I went in with the intention of doing shadow handling ( I knew find my face would be too hard) as this is my standard for all my dogs in holding area. He was struggling so just asked for some focus work . I couldnt do snuffle or plate game in holding area as involve potential food on ground. Then I asked for toy interaction- which I know hasnt been part of calm picture but I can use a toy in the ring and holding area but no food in ring and limited in holding area. My toy play has a pattern to it outside the area – look at me i toss toy go get toy, repeat. So I suppose I was looking at whether I could develop a pattern game equivalent of calmness with a toy.Here is the next exercise- I cut the duration and just included the transitions. This is bvery similar to what we have done before so he understood what was happening fast. Have been practising this.
I went to a show this weekend with my other dogs.
Took Veloz and did some mat , snuffle, pattern games and shadow handling beside the ring – didnt get all on video but here is some bits from three different sessions – he was reasonably focused as is typical.
then I took him into the holding area- it is over 12 months since we have had him this close- he knows the difference even though the ring wasnt running at the time. I had to work hard to get focus- not great video as I couldnt put camera where would like so also did more at a greater distance . I also brought out a toy as can have a toy in ring area but not food. It is hard to practice this as not really supposed to be in this area although have two ribbon trials next month where have entered with intention of just doing this.
Sorry.
Wasnt really a question more looking for your views on reward value in the live discussion as to whether when the reward value is high the added arousal due to the reward can be counterproductive in a dog that is already struggling with arousal- whether this be super exciting food or a high value toy.
But not important just something I have been thinking about. so wondered if you had any thoughts.
