[bsshay]

Hi Tracy,

It would be helpful if you could give me feedback on my videos. Would it be possible to upgrade to a working spot?
If so, how would I pay you the balance, PayPal?
If it’s not possible, no worries.
Thank you.
Barbi 😎

[bsshay]

Thank you so much. I love how encouraging you are, even when we do something too advanced for where we are. 🙂

The private/UKI instructor was Liz Randall from Oceanside, CA.

Yes, GP FEO course was hands free with both balls in pockets. Will do Level 1 and Level 2 like you suggest.

Yes, depending on class the instructor will let me work on all those things.

Will do for the weekend.

Thank you again.
Barbi

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by bsshay.

[bsshay]

Hi Tracy.

Not sure you’ve seen my above reply, additional update, Apr 7, 1201am.

Sorry it’s so long. Any feedback you have time for would be great.

Thank you
Barbi

[bsshay]

Tracy,
Thank you for all your suggestions and insight. Will incorporate.

Worked remote reinforcement today with just the balls like you said. You are SO right. Just one step away for her is like torture. So,put her on the leash but did not have to use it, just took a step away, after some hesitation she followed and back we went. Then slowly increased steps and she complied. Stopped working at about 10 steps, every time running back to play with the balls. Kept he on leash even for fetch. Should I try without leash? Like you said, this game with her ball is a totally different animal. Puts her in the ultimate level of arousal.

For the rest of the update.

Timeline…Friday late afternoon, private lesson with instructor for Sunday seminar, from there went straight to night USDAA trial at location we’ve been doing class, one Grand Prix run. Saturday night, back to USDAA night trial, one Steeplechase run. Sunday morning UKI course seminar.

Private lesson.. woman instructor, large straw wide brim hat, big sunglasses. We Sat in shade and talked about Posh’s issues, Posh curious, woman appropriate. Then worked a bit on the agility field. Needed to use ball, 2 ball. At first Posh was a bit worried with instructor standing in middle, so she had me just play fetch throwing balls in instructor’s direction. Worked well, so she had us do some simple sequencing using weaves. This went excellent, using 2 balls. Towards the end, next peeps came into area with their dogs, one golden retriever. Instructor a bit concerned, but I kept Posh’s attention with ball and let her leave with ball in her mouth. Passes right by peeps, strangers to me, and their dogs without event, peeps ignored us, didn’t talk to them. Posh has barked at strangers for just talking to me. We can be walking and strangers can be walking or around and if they talk to me, she sometimes barks at them. But if they don’t talk to me she’s fine.

On to trial. Site was small, much more crowed than class and set up differently, tables, tents, stuff. Walked her around when we got there doing Pattern games, to ring, to gates around people, near judge. People talked to me, I briefly gave them answers, she seemed fine, no one tried to pet her, peeps who know our issues ignore her. Crated her away from busy area near ring, next to one of my older dogs. Walked the course, GP, it was nice, knew we could do it. Decided to FEO due to difference in environment and the specific people doing gate, timing etc. Sun was setting, lights coming on. We were 4th dog in, 1st 12inch. Was relatively quiet, did our routine of pattern games, action tricks, calmer, then escalating as we got closer to going in and while last 10inch dog running got out ball. Had to wait for jumps reset and went in with one ball in side pocket and another in back pocket. Did a few spins on the way to line. Start would have been dangerous for swing start so asked for sit, popped off leash, led out, she held it! released her and went. Rewarded with ball about 1/3 way through for DW contact and kept going, rest of course would have messed her timing things to reward. So we ran to finish, rewarded with ball, had her jump in my arms, put leash on, out to purple chair for treats. We had a Beautiful run and would have had a 1st place Q had it not been FEO. Judge complimented us, knowing our struggles. She knew the judge, minimal ring crew, all sitting down except leash runner, but this leash runner is a pro, we’ve had her many times and she understands our struggles.

Saturday night…back to site for Steeplechase. She did so well the night before I wanted to try no FEO. Crated from car. Walked her around when got there with pattern games, etc. Someone we’d been in puppy class with for a year, squatted down to pet her, a friend of ours. I remained calm, Posh did well, but I could tell was just tolerating and not enjoying it. Some people like to show that Posh knows them and is ok with them, for me? But I think even though that’s true, in a trial environment it just complicates things for her. So we went on, not letting anyone else do that. Trial was more crowded, more busy. Walked course, wasn’t ideal, but thought it was in our wheelhouse. It was Tall to Small so we were a ways down the list. Got her out with about 6 to go, same routine, but things were way more congested, busy, tried to keep us isolated, hard. As large dogs got done, some handlers were going back in ring to help through entrance gate we were near. Dogs there that weren’t trialing, dogs coming out tugging. As we were #1, had to wait for spreads to be put back in, more people running in through entrance gate, kept action games with ball going. Then our turn. I handed the Gate, one of my instructors, the ball behind my back and pretended like it was in my pocket. Went in, was going to do swing start. Popped leash off, she looked at jump and was ready to go….but I had to be a perfectionist and wanted her angled a specific way, so bypassed that magic moment, picked her up and angled her…ish. We took off, she took the first jump and ran towards the jump setter that hadn’t been there before. She was standing instead of sitting, I angled Posh to take the jump and run right towards, and the woman has been Posh’s Vet for years. Posh gave her a few barks, I kept going, got her back on course, but she barked at the next standing jump setter as we went by, then settled down to running with me and we kept going. Did not have a clean run, but didn’t go back for any mistakes, tried to keep it as normal as possible, she had good Frames and fantastic weaves. Did our end behavior and got out of there. Sun had already gone down, so it was dark and standing ring crew was under lights, close to course. Given the complications, it would have made a great FEO opportunity. Her running off and barking was on a much lower level than it has been in the past, almost a run by bark, but any is not good. As I went over the events in my mind, I could see how I set us up for that.

Differences between Friday night and Saturday night…

Friday/ Saturday
FEO/ For real
Dusk/ Completely dark with lights
Minimal sitting ring crew/ Many last minute ring crew standing in dark
Confident in course/ Course not laid out so well
Early to run, less congestion/ Ran later, lots of congestion
Everyone ignored her/ Some petted her, tried to pet her, staring
Manageable drama/ Lots of drama around us
Solid, expected line up/ Fussed with her on start line
I’m sure there’s more…

Of course I feel bad, but on the other hand, learned a lot between the two nights.

Sunday, UKI seminar with private instructor from Friday. Took 2 dogs, ran older dog first, then ran Posh second go around same course. We did this twice. Posh did well with everyone there, 8 people, they all ignored her, a few were at our last seminar. For her runs, had to go to 2 ball level, it was the only thing that won out over bunny poo, lots of bunny poo. Course needed lead out, tried our routines, but left me for poo. So instructor had me run away and play with balls. Posh came and we worked balls back to start and then was able to get a start line with lead out. After that, Posh did really well, lots of rewarding. The course was UKI hard but she could do it. Running my more experienced dog first let me relax about how to run the course and concentrate on just working with Posh. Second course, we went right out with balls, had her full attention from the get go and instructor stood right in the middle with big hat and sunglasses. and Posh could have cared less. Posh did very well. Instructor said she thinks Posh is terrific, we just need to get the reward off of me. Yep!

Monday we rested just working on your games.

Tuesday morning class … this was my instructor and friend who witnessed what happened on both runs at the USDAA trial last weekend, she was Gate that I handed my ball to. I explained how I’ve been working remote R with our chair and toys/treats in jar. So first run, 14 obstacles, used kong woofle ball on bungees and rewarded often. Next go round, my instructor said she wanted me to do it without any toy. So I set up the chair with toys in jar and off we went, spins to start line, swing start, she had to run by the chair and did a look at it then kept running with me. If we made I mistake I just kept going or made something up. My class mates ‘stood’ close to obstacles around the course, even weaves, dark sunglasses. She hesitated and glanced at one that was moving as we went by, but she kept going right into the weaves. Finished, arm jump, off to chair, toys and treats. Next course, ran first with toy, the next with no toy and chair farther away. Classmates standing and moving. Even though I forgot the course she did beautifully. Off to chair we went. I’m sorry we didn’t get that all on video for Monday zoom. It really went well. 🙂

So, thank you for trying to absorb all this and wanting to pay attention to all this data.

Another class and private this week followed by AKC this weekend. She’s in EX JWW, FAST, and T2B. Unfortunately JWW comes first, but will run others FEO.

Whew….
Barbi

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by bsshay.

[bsshay]

Good morning Tracy.

Been working on games, and although I’ve been a bit overwhelmed, we are making progress. 🙂

Questions and data to report

Pattern game…tried toys, did well, although the higher value the toys, the harder it is for her to let go. But she got the hang of it. She tends to want the last toy she had in her mouth even though they’re identical. Did combo, toy and treat and that went well depending on the value of the toy, although seemed to go better than toy for toy. Maybe by then she had more idea of what we were doing.?? I made her balls into toys with bungee/cords for her to tug with, for her some are higher value than others. But just plain tennis ball with no attachment is still supreme, but hard to tug with that.

Line up game…going well. We are now working on sitting between my legs, stay, and swinging my leg over. This part is hard for her, She does better if she sits a bit in front of me and I swing my leg and move to the side as she is sitting. Haven’t figure out how to do it with the leash on yet, a bit cumbersome. But going well.

Off leash engagement, going really well. Years ago someone said to transfer a treat from my mouth to her mouth as I am snapping collar/leash off. I know it may seem gross but I don’t mind :). I do this as she comes out of her kennel to put her leash on, so I’ve incorporated it into this new game? Bad? too much? Still give her a treat when I stand up. I have to bend over to take her leash off.

The Volume Dial…I find it hard to assess her ‘appropriate’ arousal level. Action games in a calm manner with treats keep her engaged and calm, delivered with more movement and enthusiasm gets her up a bit, same games for toy/ball raises her way up. But what’s appropriate for entering the ring, I’m unsure of. So far I’ve tried treats with low energy action tricks, pattern games farther away from the ring with more time to go, then increase energy level with treats and finally pull out toy with same behaviors with about 3 dogs to go before we enter. But then one of our best runs, I had to switch my other dog out for Posh from my car and go straight to the ring with minimal warm up Go figure??

Engaged chill…do you have any suggestions of what to do with a 12 lb dog? We engage chill at home while watching TV, she sits on my lap and I pet her head, massage he ear. She also likes to sit on the back of my chair curling around my head… I know, very weird! The only thing so far I’ve been able to do is bend down and cuddle her head against my leg while I pet her face and message her ear. But I have to bend over quite a bit and it would be hard to go over the course etc. Perhaps pick he up and do the same, but I don’t know if giving Her that view of things would negatively affect her. ??

Remote Reinforcement…going surprisingly well. Using our little purple child’s camping foldable chair, and treats in a small glass jar, lid shut tight. Started this outside. Went so well, I put it on the edge of our yard, go with me to a jump upright, sent her around it, had her jump in my arms, then off to the chair. We progressed this to 2 jump uprights, had her do a few figure 8s, jump in my arms then off to the chair….treats!!!
Then we tried 2 of the same balls/bungees I made in a bigger jar with lid. Started at the beginning and worked up to the figure eights, she did beautifully. Didn’t need to use a leash. Then I decided to try 2 tennis balls, no bungees, her absolute highest value toy. She watched me load the jar with the balls. I walked away and she didn’t want to leave the chair. Then she started pawing at the jar with the balls in it, in the chair. Instead of calling her, or going to get her, or putting her on a leash, I decided to just stand there about 10 ft away facing the jump uprights and wait. She continued to paw at the jar and look at me. So I didn’t say anything and waited. After a few seconds she chose to leave the chair/ball jar and come to me. I set her up in a sit, released and did a few figure eights, asked her to jump into my arms, and ran to the chair. We opened the jar and played fetch with those balls for 5 minutes!!! Go figure!
A couple of months back I started working on the basics of this. At first it was very hard…she pawed at the cookie jar for literally minutes before she finally paused and I could open it and treat her. It took sessions before she could leave the jar or pass by the jar to do something. Then toys were introduced. With this, your method/mechanics and the power of the purple chair, it seems like we’ve made good progress. However for a trial, or seminar setting, I can see how this routine would need to be absolute, especially with the chair on the outside of the ring.

Since we last chatted, we’ve had a private behavioral lesson, one session UKI course seminar, USDAA tournament only night trials, and class this morning. I will add the results and data from these events tomorrow.

Thank you!!! I think we’re getting better.

Barbi and Posh

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by bsshay.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by bsshay.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by bsshay.

[bsshay]

Hi again.

Action Tricks: going very well in our training room. We can do everything rapidly with or without treats in my hands, but dance (she does a circle while standing up on her back legs) and leg weaving are slower without treats in my hand, for now. Questions, on your video when treats are in your hands you toss them on the ground, when treats are in your pockets you deliver hand to mouth. I did it just this way, but are these mechanics significant? Also, I am leery of teaching a dog that can bark excessively or barks at strangers to bark on command. I’m usually trying to get her to stop barking. 🤪

Pattern Games: going very well with food, in training room. I always start something in our inside room before moving outside. Moving on with toys, seems like I should start with lesser value toys?

Instant Focus: again going very well in room. Used silicone beverage coaster which she had to touch with a front paw. Chaos went well, although she first wanted to get her stuffed large orangutan but left it for the coaster. Then when I added holee-rollers she went right for them. She brought the rollers to me and I made them ‘dead’. Then she went right for the coaster and was able to work just the coaster from then on.😎. If we were outside I think she may have grabbed the holee-roller and run a few victory laps with it. Which is why I start these games in our room.

Line up game: we’re trying between my legs. Went much better than I thought. I expected it to be too much pressure for her. But she loved the quick game a we’re up to ‘sit’.

Remote Reinforcement: she can jump up on anything and reinforce herself, can even open the zipper on my backpack to get her toy. And she has! This has been our hardest thing. The only way I can work this myself is to put the cookies in a jar she cannot open or carry off and put the toy in a glass container with a secure lid that she also cannot flip open or carry off. I used a can of Tuna for her nose target for contacts because she carried off and ran victory laps with anything else. She’s quite a clever ‘corker’.

What kind of treats are you using in the vids?

Some people have said I shouldn’t use her highest value toys because they are a crutch for me and a pacifier for her. You’ve never seen us work, but your thoughts on this?

Thank you. Barbi

[bsshay]

Woohoo! We love games. 👍🏻

[bsshay]

Hi. I think you’re right on target and like your suggestions.

To finish up history…

On course in Training, does well until we make a mistake or I ask her to repeat too many times, then she leaves me to sniff or run to bark at someone.

On course at Trial, same, but I’ve learned to just keep going or make up my own course or circle a logical path back to where we need to be.

Reinforcement Hierarchies

In training, toys are supreme, then treats. Her baby Tennis Ball is her absolute favorite toy.

Reward present? offers behaviors, interestingly, she often drops to a down and backs up in the down… I taught her this as a young pup to get her food dish delivered.

No reward present? She likes to jump into my arms, when I got her from the breeder she was already doing this and I encouraged it as a go to, when in doubt, do this behavior. I try to end all our runs this way, then we put her leash on and run to our purple chair for reward.

Ideally I’d like to walk into the ring smartly with a confident eager pup, set her up, pop the leash, lead out and go. Both of us knowing what’s about to happen and what’s expected. I can do this with my oldest running dog and we’ve had great success; this dog, like yours, doesn’t look at me but looks for the line.

What I’ve learned that helps: if I tug/play with Posh right next to the judge, photographer, leash runner, etc in the morning outside the ring where she can see them while she’s tugging or a judge measures Posh while I hold a pnut butter cup at her nose, she’s good with them for the rest of the day, trial, unless they change their appearance, new hat, sunglasses, jacket, etc. I may need to repeat this for someone new, change of appearance etc.

I’ve tried tugging her into the ring which she will do if she’s not too stressed. The first time I did this, when I got her to release it and tossed it back, she ran to it and brought it back to me. Oops. I’ve had varying degrees of success with leash tugging…eventually ‘someone’ has to take it away. Ball still trumps leash.

What doesn’t help: when she leaves me to bark at someone, it seems like going to get her makes it worse, so I run the other way. When she figures out I’ve left she chases after me, she jumps into my arms and we leave the ring. Sometimes I’ve gotten her back on course and continued. When we leave the ring after she jumps into my arms we go to our purple chair for reward that she came back to me. But it seems to me I may have chained a behavior…run to bark at someone, back to mom, get rewarded. ?? ish…. I stopped showing her except for FEO at this point.

She’s gotten a lot better with working on things.

Thank you

Barbi

[bsshay]

History Observations above.

Responses

Current ring entry start line routine Training: trotting to start line, patterns along the way, ask for sit, pop off leash, ask for eye contact, lead out, and release, or if a swing start, orient her to first obstacle, pop off leash and go. I used to set her up, say “Ready” wait for her to look at first obstacle (focus forward) and release her. But someone said I overuse “Ready”, so now I wait for her eye contact, if I’ve lost it, and release her to go. If I wait too long to release her, or if she looks at the obstacle and I take too long to release her, we have a disconnect. As you said last night, she just wants to get it done and go. It seems she doesn’t want to be fussed with. If may take her 2-3 seconds to sit or another cue.

Current ring entry start line routine Trials: I try to do the same, but noticed I’ve forgotten the patterns on the way to the line and I put my hand on her withers when I pop her leash off, sitting and swing start. If she won’t sit at all or she will sit but only if she sits toward a person, or sits staring at someone, there is a chance she will leave me. Locations where rings are tight, many people close, scribe table close are the worst. She does better when rings have more room and people are more spread out. When I had her favorite toy last weekend this didn’t happen. Her BALL can override most anything. 😉 Last weekend was the same ring where Amy and Tango filmed her video, lots going on in close proximity.

Again more to follow. 😉
Barbi

[bsshay]

Absolutely. I’m going to try to finish the History, and that may answer some things.

Observations

Outside ring Training, usually great with everything except, large golden retrievers? or large similar looking dogs, strangers/odd looking people. She will bark at them. Interestingly she wants to go up and see, sniff, get treats form strangers, but when they lean over her or do same to pet her, she can back up and bark at them. If I can work her with treats and toys, before class, play/tug, do pattern work near these people she seems to accept them. If someone else comes in during class we need to do the same thing.

Outside ring at Trial, very similar to training. Again working her around people helps her to accept them. If I need to transport her from car to tent etc, she is super happy to carry her stuffed toy ‘whale’ or other toy in her mouth and able to move through all sorts of people/situations with no event, not even barking. The more unusual the person, the more I need to catch it quickly and work her.

Outside ring routine Training, patterns, eye contact, letting her see what’s around and rewarding for not barking or reorienting to me. Treats and Toys

Outside ring routine Trial, same but with higher value toys and treats. Starting her at a distance and working our way to ring.

Ring gate to start, Training, excited to go, happy but also checking out where people are, how close are to us. The longer I leave her sitting on a start line and the further I get away from her magnifies this.The level of toys and treats can override.

Ring gate to start, Trial, lately, if she thinks I’ve got her favorite toy, she’s all in. If she knows I have nothing, she’s worried, distracted, people, environment, depending how close they are and who’s staring at her. People like to watch her run.

In Training, crated away from edge of ring, eats treats outside and inside ring, tugs outside and inside ring.

At Trials, crated in car if possible, if not in dome tents with my other dogs, crates surrounded by car windshield shades I’ve taped together like ‘Force Field’ shields. They cannot see anything. Eats treats outside ring, plays tug outside ring and can tug inside depending on proximity to strangers.

More to come. 😉

Barbi

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by bsshay.

[bsshay]

History 1

Doing this in spurts as one try went awry.

Posh, 3yr+, spayed female, mini poo.

Agility, AKC and USDAA

Training, advanced/excellent

Trailing, Advanced, Excellent, Masters.

Issue: strangers

[bsshay]

Testing

[Author]

Posts