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Great Tracy, I’ll work on lots more leash off from carried. And we are out and about today able to work more instant focus from the car.
We also have some rented practice time in a novel place. So: leash off with cookies visible and pattern games that bring up her heart rate in a good way before we start weaves? Magic cardboard as well I image but just once?
Trying to get the “most” out of the rental time but not do too much thinking.
<why do we all say “GOOD STRETCH” when our dogs do it? We all do that and it is hilarious LOL!!!!>
It’s just common decency:if your dog stretches and you dont say "OH BIG STRETCH" every single time then you are a psychopath and i dont want to know you
— Andrew Lawrence (@ndrew_lawrence) March 11, 2020
Full body shake – she didn’t do it in this session on the video, but she did it at the start of another little session earlier today. Will keep track and report back.
I have today’s whole Line Up Game session here — We’re still at Game Package 1 level. I was adding the sits over the last week, and today added the dismount – and yeah, I’m worried this isn’t going to go well. In all other activities she’s really concerned being around my feet as is. I need glasses and have a big chest and have trouble seeing her as is. I’m willing to keep working on it, but I wonder if I’m going to find myself carrying her to the line anyway / if time is better spent on other things? I was really happy with her quick returns! But she’s like, “can I just do this instead? Do I really have to go between those things? I could make it work better by feeding while dismounting, and maybe after several reps she’d get the idea and stay. I just don’t want to have a balance / kick her / worried about being kicked issue.
What do you think i should do?
BrendaDubious that I’ll be able to see / mark taking a breath, lol! I thought it would be too hard because she’s so darn subtle. Little did I know it would be hard because my eye sight is a mess, ha! Tonight in my bifocals I couldn’t get her nose in focus in the top or the bottom, snort. Ended up taking my glasses off, and can see on the video I missed a few. But will keep it up in better light. I think I’m shaping a nose twitch not a breath?
Full body shake – often at the start of any “work” — you noticed it after taking off the leash the first time … but she also did it when she hopped out of the car for Instant Focus. And today at the start of the combo game, and when we enter a search area in nosework, and you know what? with my “carry to the line/set down / hand in collar” starts she doesn’t get a chance to shake it off in agility start lines. I just re-watched my intro video; one shake in 10 start lines, but 7 of the other 9 I was holding her / no chance to shake it off (altho “work” would be starting outside the ring, so that’s where she might be shaking off, I don’t recall specifics?). My sense / undocumented memory is that she gets right to work after a full body shake. If I see her twitch / stiffen like a shake is coming I stop what I’m doing and let her finish that.
RR combo game – my camera wasn’t low enough to totally see her but I think you can tell what she’s doing.
Brenda
Hi Tracy,
We took a break from RR games and got started with the Instant Focus on the road plus Leash Off Offered Engagement (with some ordinary Chill in the middle).Instant Focus – watching my video I see 2 missed opportunities to reward the early approximations of the target behavior. Oops, will do better next time!
Chill – this is our home facility and a very normal “waiting our turn” set up.
I decided to start the leash off game after our class. She was really comfortable in the building, and had been looking to me for opportunities to earn cookies for an hour so was in that pattern of “mom still has cookies, try telepathy to get them.” I want to do a lot more of this including carrying her & setting her down, but we are getting better at keeping it short!
I am dubious about Take a Breath, will give it a try tomorrow or Friday.
Moving Remote Reinforcement indoors and adding offered engagement – I think this is what you’re looking for?
In prior sessions I set down the reward, waited until she looked at me, and then began to walk away. As soon as she took a step with / toward me we returned.
In this session I kept my mechanics the same: set down the reward, waited until she looked at me, began to move away – and some reps she maintained eye contact best she could with me having my shoulder in the way. My instinct is to increase the distraction, maybe moving to the garage?As far as Engaged Chill, I often have her licking a cookie up on my thigh, and I don’t ask for jump up if we’re on gravel (which is the surface outside the ring where we most often trial) as I notice it must be uncomfortable for her there, she won’t do jump up hand touches on that surface either. I also very often put her up on a bench or chair where we can reach each other without both of us stretching or me bending over her. Thoughts?
A question I want to ask tonight:
After the first 2 weeks I’m grasping which games are for us to take action to bring dog’s arousal to the optimal state, and which games where we are teaching our dogs to “show up” with the right arousal state. I was applying feedback you gave me on Day X and applying it to Day Y, but if I was doing a different game on Day Y then advice from Day X didn’t apply — I’m getting the straight now I think.Still in the mean time, I’ve gotten myself a little paralyzed in “real life” – such as when training a skill, or working on my handling. I am thinking that in those situations I should take action to moderate her arousal (if needed) and not “expect her to show up” in the right state. I am thinking that those games that teach / encourage her to be in the right state are worked on separately, and someday(s) she will “show up” and I won’t need to take (as much) action.
Am I in fact understanding a) that I need to be different depending on the game and b) it’s ok / correct that I *should* get the arousal right before training a skill?
Hi Tracy,
We did two short sessions today, an Instant Focus session and a few hrs later Remote Reinforcement.My Instant Focus cookies were as small as I could make them and still be suitable for tossing to get her off the Magic Cardboard. I was kinda planning to run away and reward from hand based on your comments in another game, but you want me still for Instant Focus, because it’s up to Zippie to offer focus. I could quietly step away and reward from hand off the cardboard if you want to see that in lieu of the time to chew the cookies. Cookie #3 was the longest to chew and she had a bounce in her step to come back after that one.
Remote reinforcement: I’m feeding 2 or 3 small “smears” off my thumbnail in rapid fire then putting the dish down. I’ve been finding she doesn’t run back to the treats with me – except that very first time when I was going too far away. Sometimes that is because of poor design of my training space (best not put cookies on a wall), but also I realized on our break from training over the weekend that I already use “let’s go” in life and it’s pretty poisoned. Practicing with my other dog (for my mechanics and footwork), “yay let’s go GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET it” felt like something I could remember and would use after a reinforcement-free exercise.
Thoughts? Looking forward to getting better at this.
Before I work on an Engaged Chill, I have a question: do you cue Elektra or Hot Sauce to paws up in your thigh? I have a lean back stance that is meant to be a paws up invitation but I also sometimes pat my leg. I know that Engaged Chill is not to be work, so maybe cues not appropriate?
My observations: when just chilling at home Zippie interacts with me by either leaning her back up against me or resting her chin on my knee. She likes scratching below the ear and strokes along her stop / between her eyes.
I use a “3 pets and stop” to see if she asks for more which is really funny to watch her ask for more please.
I thought I could attach a cute picture but perhaps not via my phone, boo boo.<<Another way to look at it… would you also use the physical stimuli as positive reinforcement for behaviors you loved and would like to see more of?>>
This all makes perfect sense, thank you Tracy.
First – TY for being so understanding and reassuring. I really am having to retrain my brain and muscle memory.
My instructor Gillian Crawford and I have a question for you – do you have a place in your repertoire for using physical stimuli to raise arousal? For example we might use restraint in recall training, or push back on the dog’s chest then run away to start a chase game. I ask *not* as a trick question to be reassured that dragging my dog around by her collar is okay. But I do see that when I have irritated the heck out of her (sorry Zippie!) her arousal *is* up and her response to cues is much better. I think of The Chipmunks (Dave: Alvin? Alvin? ALVIN!!!! – Alvin: O!KAY!). I have never used a lot of physical play with my Basenjis (I do with my terrier), but maybe I should try some things, a’la Volume Dial game to see what works? Or wait for a future game pack?
This question was inspired in part by what happened today, but we’re not asking for permission to repeat what happened today, I promise. Today’s class was a 7 obstacle sequence, working on my handling for a backside jump off screen. I set up the camera to get the start and finish, which was almost a loop so we could retry our handling in flow a couple of times. You will not be surprised that she was slow at jump 1-2, but once we got going her energy was great, until on the third time her arousal was lower, she missed a jump, I tried to restart (because the approach was relevant the backside skill we were working on, otherwise I rarely fix missed jumps) so now we were on a 4th try …. and 4 times was probably too much. So I went to get her, we reconnected with a couple of tricks, and the my instructor wanted me to finish with the easy part of the sequence. I walked her over to the “new” start line and when she started to dig in her heels my instructor asked me to be persistent. Clearly I need to train hand in the collar outside of agility if I want to use it, but starting at 2:26 after “relief” she ran better than average, including on her next turn.
I want to be clear that I do not want to integrate punishment and relief from punishment in my training, but Gill wanted me to ask you about physical stimulus in arousal games and thoughts you may have. If that’s out of scope of the course or save it for later that’s totally fine.(And we will start the Engaged Chill game this weekend. So many games to work on!)
Thank you Tracy,
BrendaSome of my mistakes are coming from my forgetting when I’m supposed to be moving and talking and when I’m supposed to be still and quiet. I know you’ve told us but am struggling to remember things 30 seconds after I’ve read them lately, I keep doing it wrong, get flustered and weird. I don’t want you to think I’m not listening, I am, Its just not natural yet.
Chewing – yes, I know. She will chew and savor a pea-sized piece of mozzerella cheese or roast pork or liverwurst – she likes to really take her time. But yes, I will work on smaller pieces.
I do need to use drier ones when tossing in the dirt as we do here. This is Zippie in a largely empty arena, my least favorite place / time to train because she always seems like a different dog. She’s much more fun in class – this “ho-hum” dog always surprises me. So I tried to keep it simple and short.
Good Morning, Tracy,
First, I should have clarified, I’m not taking 3 classes a week with Zippie 😉 I do have other dogs (who has just one dog??). But I’m at Argus for hours at a time some days and can do a couple of 2 min sessions on either end of a long walk around the property. She would tell you that she has napped most of the day today.I can see I’m going to need to write out the steps so I can get the mechanics right, because I had trouble following instructions again. I have a muscle memory of rewarding with motion — and so with Volume Dial I kept pairing 2 behaviors before rewarding – “spintouch” reward, “spintouch” reward – sorry! I don’t think I mentioned before – “touches” to target plates seems to be almost a toy for her, she likes it A LOT better than nose to hand, and I’ve actually wondered if it might be a useful FEO aid … just mentioning for later.
My first Volume Dial assessment
1) after the first 5 tricks then my pause – she seemed about as high as I’ve ever seen her! But she wasn’t sharky taking treats, so I think that was pretty good!
2) I tried the pivots and heelwork moves and that seemed a little too thinky, or maybe the space was an issue.
3) Then I tried 5 reps of holding my focus fist for eye contact (sorry – different class) and her energy was back up to where it was after the first rep.
4) finally I tried a toy, we are shaping a tug and she’s kind of got an idea of what she’s supposed to do, but this was too thinky for this game. I think she was in a great state of mind to *learn* to bite the toy, but the biting / tugging itself is not it’s own reward yet, tho we are transferring value to it.So I thought it was all good, but the spins and touches were better than the pivots, in this space. What do you see? I wish I had the camera so you could see her eyes, so cute!
Hi Tracy,
I am really enjoying this class. It will be super hard for me to not ask for attention / engagement but I believe you, so I will keep working on it and will get some video of Tricks for Treats in the quiet training arena tomorrow. And if time allows I’ll also try the Remote Reinforcement and / or the Volume control because I think those will puzzle me more than others. I am at Argus at least twice a week, often quite a bit more, so whenever there is something specific you want me to try let me know. I have an agility class with Jordan and with Jill Crawford, plus a nosework class.I am really surprised you want me to do Remote Reinforcement in that tiny hallway. Surprised because I can’t get much distance from the treats, but that’s surely your point. 🙂 Here is our video. The antecedent arrangement of setting up the camera, putting the boy dogs away, and getting out treats is a strong predictor of training, and I think you can see she thought we were getting out of the hall and going to the other room – and she was ready to GO. I could barely get her to go back to reinforcement with me. When I rearranged the set up, I made a major blooper at :50 — first I cued “let’s go” to leave the food, then I didn’t mark and reward when she did leave the food – ugh! Then we both thought about my mistake until about 1:00 and she gave up and returned to the food without me (but didn’t steal, hurrah!) and I could then mark and reward at 1:08. Then a couple of good reps, then at 1:57 I guess I was waiting for her to come further to me, into the dead end of the hall.
Maybe I had a preconceived notion that the hallway wouldn’t work well and I should try again?
I have a question on the Volume Dial game – do you want us to do 5 tricks then assess, then try something else to “adjust the dial” and assess, maybe two or three times back to back like you did in the demo video, so we can see comparison in real time? Or do you want us to just do the 5 tricks, assess, then stop (and repeat something different at a later time)?
Brenda
Hi Tracy,
<<You can pick up the entire reward bowl or bag as you deliver the treat, let her finish it, then let her see you put it down to start the next rep – that can help cue that the next rep is starting, rather than walking away without a sense of readiness. >> Oh, okay, that really helps me picture the “loops” of the game, thank you!
<<because we don’t want to teach Remote Reinforcement Game in a distracting environment>>
Detour question here: I find a sterile / quiet environment can draw her focus away from me a lot more than a busy one. Very regularly during private practice time in our “home” arena she sniffs the ground, wanders away, has no interest to earn reinforcement vs if there are 2 classes going on or a lure coursing machine running nearby she is much more “eyes on mom” ready to start. It seems like the less distracting an environment would seem to be, the more distracting it actually is. My suspicion is that if I wait for her to offer I may get very very tired of waiting. And yet I think I’ve just answered my own question – I need to start with a very small space and just wait her out? What would you want me to do if she does wander off during a session of Remote Reinforcement? I hear you: “don’t cue in this game,” but now I fear getting out ahead / flat footed / paralyzed. When I got ahead of her yesterday I started marching in place / taking tinier steps.<<How is your engaged chill coming along? I will bug everyone about it because it is really important and so far there have been exactly zero video submissions on it>> Well, you made it game #7 and you’re giving us all good things to do next with the first games, so of course we haven’t gotten to #7 yet, LOL!
Line Up between my legs. I we’ve seen that Zippie does not like being near my feet, and I’ve tried this before BUT we can try it again for sure. My current “line up” behavior is to set her down where I want her in a stand stay, but I have also cued her to line up to one side or the other with mixed success, so we shall try this. So far ONLY step one: https://youtu.be/reiTsvj3Ws4
There are so many games you’ve given us – if you think we should leave this one alone for a few weeks that would make sense to me. I can keep working on the “cookie” reward on my shoes to build her willingness to drive into me in general before adding this between pressure.
Oh good, glad you liked the roomba – I was concerned you’d think that was making it too complex but she honestly doesn’t even notice it. Gotcha – I will keep working on building value for the magic cardboard in less chaotic settings.
I have a new favorite game!! I was so surprised at how she played “Remote Reinforcement.” Of course we’ve done similar things but this was a little different, perhaps because we’ve been playing games lately and so maybe she’s more keen / curious about what new shenanigans I’m up to? But I’m telling you, I don’t think I’ve ever just walked along with her “off” leash at my side without feeling the need to make sure she’s paying attention. (that could say a lot more about me needing to chill a bit, as well).
So we started on the deck, but I realized we didn’t have a lot of room there, so we moved to the street. My first rep on the street level the camera fell over -gah! so after a short walk we tried again. But what I learned in the segment not shown is that I need to give her a moment to finish chewing before walking away or she’ll just wait for me near the food. If I wait for her to look up after chewing then turn to walk away it becomes a together thing!
You’ll see at 1:25 the environment started to draw her focus away, so I experimented with a couple of “get it” tosses to bring her up a bit, then restarted Remote Reinforcement walkaways. This felt good – what are your thoughts?
