Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Thanks for the feedback! I’ll start progressing the teeter stuff. It’s good to know I can work on each piece and not get stuck on one lesson.
This session is from the the other night when I did the tunnel with wraps. Chapter is VERY one sided (as you will see). I could not get him to turn into the tunnel when I wrapped to the left(I think it’s the left- I always get confused!). He did it on a rear to the tunnel but that won’t work to wrap another jump because I will be way too behind. I did try to do a wrap and then drop the toy before the tunnel a few times- that didn’t seem to help. He also had quite a bit of speed so that added to the challenge. Maybe I should try with the lotus ball and food so he isn’t as aroused? The wraps to the right went totally fine. There is some type of obnoxious bird at the end of his last rep that made his brain explode and we were done. In hindsight this session probably went on too long though so I’m going to be mindful of that.
We also did a session on start lines. I got the running off behavior on the first rep because I incorrectly assumed he knew a start line already lol. So I back up and went to the second jump and did a lot of throwing the reward behind him. His middle two reps are the blinds. I suspected he jumped the gun on the first blind rep but I wasn’t sure. If I’m not sure in the moment should I reward anyway? After getting the third rep we started to have more broken start lines so I went back to the second jump and did more rewards behind and ended with that.
Overall his focus on the start lines was better and I was using a lower value toy since it was easier to throw back. Maybe our working through distractions is already helping!
I agree totally about the day time and hacking the dopamine if frustrated/bored/not enough value etc. I can totally do the agility at night and I did in the wrap session at night which I’m editing and I’ll post later. I’m now seeing verbals will be a must since I struggled with the wraps due to his speed. That’s a huge shift for me from Maddy since she had like zero verbals lol (but also much slower). More on that session later when I post.
Here is our two teeter sessions on backing up and bang game. I sat closer in the bang game and I see what you mean and his back being curved up. I’m not super worried about that right now, especially since I have continued to lower the tip assist on mountain climbers and his position has been fine, but once we get more movement I’ll keep an eye out. We did a nice short session here and his targeting seems to be getting better.
I also did back up with the mat. I did reward any effort of putting his back feet on to encourage work and prevent frustration. Ideally I would like him to back all four feet on and no mat but I think this was an improvement. Is it okay for me to move back to give him space to come off and then scoot forward to help encourage him to back all four feet? I think he had lots of space between me and the teeter and that may be a reason he stopped with just the back feet.
I did a session of engagement in the yard at night with him on Leash and doing simple shaping and lead outs with a jump. All went well until heard the noises behind the fence and wanted to run over. Massive temper tantrum! I redirected him with some pattern games but I definitely can see that he needs work on this area a lot. I’m going to try to do some sessions I
During the day and at night during high volume Neighborgood times.That makes sense about the teeter and me being too far away. I’ll try closer on our next session. I’ve also been working on his back up skills away from the teeter and he’s generalizing well so I’m going to move to the teeter in that as well.
Serps
I have noticed that I have a better success at night when I train in the yard. It’s not perfect but I’m able to call him back and we can work- hence the videos below. So he does do this during the day and it is chasing other dogs, people who walk by and birds. When it was dragonfly season he would also leave work to chase those. While we do play frisbee and ball in the yard, it’s a sporadic activity. Some weeks it may be three times that week, other weeks it’s none. If he has lots of training, hiking, engagement then he doesn’t get as much frisbee, but in crazy weeks for me and he doesn’t get as much training, it may be more. At night there is little to no foot traffic in the neighborhood which is probably why he’s more engaged with training.In this video I had some great reps with a toy but my phone ran out of storage and stopped the video (damn technology). When I fixed that issue Chaoter was over that toy so I upped the value with my make shift frisbee toy. It took us a second to get the arousal down and the brain working, but I think we had some good reps at the end.
I love the ideas on working on his engagement and I’ll try that tomorrow during the day! This I my biggest frustration but it also shows up in a trial context where he can’t focus on me and is super aware of the environment so I think that will help with both issues.
We filmed some of this the last two days and then I just slacked in editing. Your comment about border collies needing to know all the rules is so dead on! I’ve noticed Maddy let me get away with A LOT of lumping- Chapter has no time for lumping nonsense!
Another bang gang session and I stayed in front of him. My timing is slow because I was trying to make sure he was targeting his foot. We’ve done a lot of targeting practice outside of the teeter. He seems much less bothered by the noise and motion and we can do more reps now- yeah for small victories!
I also attempted to do serps. We didn’t get to even attempt it because I had massive issues with focus. I put together what happened with three different rewards- frisbee on a fleece rope (which I used for the wing exercise last week). That was way too much- he couldn’t possibly stay so I could get I to position and started throwing out behaviors. I switched to a toy that he loves to play with in the house- little to no interested and kept running off. Then I used the lotus ball which I have used in the past for agility filled with cheese. Slightly better but after one rep he left and went running. This is the issue I’m struggling the most with for handling (and weaves). Interestingly I didn’t have this issue with running contacts but he was younger as we did foundation and I think he has a lot of value built up for that work. Help please!!!
Lastly we did a short session in counter motion sit game. Of course it went beautifully but then I realized I didn’t hit record. The second session wasn’t as good and I think Chapter seemed confused as to what we were doing. His last reps got better I think.
I will be a better student and post videos more frequently and less lumped together!!
Thanks for clarifying the teeter behavior! For his target behavior I guess I never really solidified a behavior. Usually it was just a treat target in control unleashed classes or when we did baby agility when he was young. I’ve noticed in his control unleashed classes the past six months he”s been offering a foot target and tried to pivot since the target was on the floor. I thought that was hysterical and very creative – the teacher of that class didn’t find it that funny since he was the demo dog a few times lol! So I’m fine with a foot target especially since we are working on foot targets with the fit pods.
I did try having him back up onto a folded yoga mat and then the Cato board to make sure he actually has this skill. It went well so I’ll try it in the flat teeter next.
Today we did the bang game with the target. My first rep was hot mess express. Since we hadn’t been doing the target with the teeter at all for the last several months Chapter was kind of like- what target? I kept the session short but I think that got a littler clearer near the end. Lots of distractions during this one as my son was trying to get I to the backyard and my other dog was not having it when I told my son to put him inside. I was happy the Chapter noticed the issue but then offered the behavior instead of leaving work.
We also did more of wing it from week 2. I did two wraps this time and boy was this challenging for me. Chapter is much faster than Maddy was and I was struggling with timing, placement of myself and using the correct foot stepping back on the left wrap. It didn’t seem to matter how much I practiced without him. I need to work on this for sure. I also did the race track and then ended on a wrap and he had no issue switching back and forth which was nice. I was also proud of him for working through the distractions in the other yard including my son attempting to climb the fence and me telling him he was going to kill himself (not in those words, but you know what I mean). The kids are his sheep and he usually gets very nervous and protective if he thinks they are in any danger. So this was progress in his focus!
In the previous teeter class he did back up at the very beginning when he was learning the end position on a flat teeter board. After establishing the end position of four on the class progressed with back chaining on a super low teeter.
I included a session from the other day on the teeter. The middle rep of the teeter video I tried having him come off with a nose touch and then back up, but he turned around. Overall his focus was good and I kept the session super short.
We also tried the lazy contacts game. He wants to do a foot touch with the target- probably because we’ve been doing shaking to get in fit pods. So I went with that behavior. I had some logistical issues with timing of the target, placement and the fact when he pawed it,it fell off the Cato board. By the end of the session I think I got it together.
In terms of having the target behavior at the end of the teeter-I know eventually we will fade the target but will the target hpbehavior still happen at the end? For instance- when your dog who scratches has a completed teeter- will the dog drive to the end of the teeter and scratch at it all the way down? I’m trying to make sure I understand what the end picture looks like.
I definitely need to work on my rears but I see what you’re saying about the timing.
I took a few days off because Chapter has zero sense of self preservation and tweaked his shoulder. A few days of rest was much needed- despite Chapter’s clear disagreement with that situation 😂
I did two sessions of the teeter super short like you suggested. No running off once I got his attention. So the teeter class I was in prior we initially did a back up while sitting on a chair and then the idea of that class was to work with !ow teeter and side load until you got to the beginning (if that makes sense). I think Chapter is confused as to what we are doing at this point. Anytime he made an effort to bang the board I rewarded it because I didn’t want him to get frustrated especially with our teeter arousal issues.
We also did the wing it counter motion. I was a bit worried since we have never done anything similar to this before but he caught on really well. and you were right about the verbals- so hard! I also cant ever remember my left and right cue words or know which way we are turning- what’s the benefit for different verbals on left and right versus just a wrap tight cue? Wouldn’t the handlers position, motion and connection provide the dogs with the cues as to where to go? I’m curious since I really struggle with left and right😂
Thank you about my daughter! Training with little kids is always interesting!
When he got worked up with the teeter he would get more and more frantic and sometimes take off running. That behavior has been getting better lately. I’ll try the tips for 4 on for our next teeter session.
Tonight we did straight lines. The first one we did was FC. He struggled at first with pulling off the jump so I did some one jump exercises and made sure I gave move forward motion. It’s insane how quick he can change direction at that speed! After the he jump and then two jumps our timing got better. I added the tunnel at the end with the last jump. And I was super proud of him for playing with a toy and tugging!
Next we tried the backside which went much better than I thought! It’s been a minute since we’ve done backsides in a sequence.
Lastly we did the rear wrap. Oh boy! I struggled with this because I haven’t done many rears, so I’m not very confident with this move. We’ve also never trained this so after the first rep I did lots of rewarding on the side I wanted him to go but I’m not sure if I’m in the right position.
Totally makes sense regarding higher arousal minus food. I’ve been struggling with getting him to play with toys as of late. I think my toy sessions are too long- I really struggle with super short sessions which I need to focus on with him. He can play decent in my room and the kids rooms but if I move to the kitchen/great room or outside he loses interest.
Tonight I did have him switch out frisbees and also eat food and alternate. This was my first time doing this outside and it went well- yeah for a win!
Today we did the teeter bang games and the counter motion. The other teeter class I was taking we did lots of end behavior stuff but Chapter often got worked up. You can hear him whining and getting slightly worked up here. He was able to work though and this training session was less than ideal- my daughter insisted on “helping,” the manner minders decided to die after the first rep and then my son let our other dog out. The one think I wasn’t sure of was that I was teaching a 4 on behavior at the end and he offered just the back feet. Is that fine since this session focused more of movement and bang or should I be more strict on that criteria?
Here is the counter motion. This was the first time I tried this and I think it went well- although I do think I slowed down or even stooped for a second and possibly helped him.
I forgot to mention with the tug tug tug and lazy game is that with a frisbee he won’t eat food. I am working on his tug toy skills with other toys so I can try it with lower value toys and see what happens!!
That makes total sense about the line with the lazy game! Now that you pointed that out I’m like duh!
Initially I was training with mainly food probably because that’s what I was used to doing with Maddy and Fenway. I used the lotus ball with them and for whatever reason that’s what I had used with Chapter. But then I was struggling more with his focus and attention so I decided to try to see if I could train with toys- mainly frisbee since that is his ride or die toy. He will sometimes play with a few other toys but I took his tugging for granted with toys and we have seemed to lose it unless it’s a frisbee (the hyper lite cloth ones).
When I trained the wobble board and teeter we were doing food only since the class I was taking used food and/or treat and train. Chapter also loves the treat and train. We used it a lot for the running contacts.
So it’s totally funny that you talk about his different arousal levels because when I did the wing it I did it with frisbee and food. So the first three turns are frisbee and the last one was food. I had no issues with focus with the frisbee but I did have issues with Chapter throwing out behaviors to get rewarded faster. But I was surprised he was able to do as many obstacles with a frisbee because I’ve only tried two at the most before. The last rep was food and I did lose him a few times to running laps around the yard. I’m definitely interested to hear your thoughts on his food vs toy sequences.
In response to the teeter issue- he would run off and bark for both successful reps and non-successful ones. Usually he would jump off mid board when it was about a foot to two feet height (we never got farther than that) and then he would take off running laps in the yard and it was most often a losing battle trying to get his brain back into it. So once that started happening as we were moving the teeter up, I started over and did more games to build value for the end. But then as we did those games he would often get frantic and bark and whine and throw behaviors out there rapidly- especially as I started working on duration for staying at the end of the board. The first time I did the mountain climber for this class I had him on leash to grevent the running off. He only needed that a few times to understand what we were doing and then he was fine. So, I’m thinking his running off is a frustration behavior at my lack of clarity for him? I also struggle with his attention in handling, which I’ll get to in a later post when I edit the wing it exercise.
In terms of the wobble board, he was much better with that but I did get frantic behaviors when working on holding four feet on for duration. But he was much more engaged with the wobble board.Here is my video for the lazy handling. I did end up having to put him on leash for this because when I tried off leash, he took off running around the yard and had zero desire to come back and work. His agility training was going really well but then this fall took a little break for grass overseed. He did two FEO runs at an agility trial and exhibited some ring stress so I’ve stopped going to trials and have decided to rebuild his confidence. I’ve noticed I need to make the criteria very clear for him and go in baby steps to increase challenges because he doesn’t tolerate failure well. I was able to take the leash off and work through the exercise after a few reps with the leash. I didn’t even hold the leash, just the leash being on made him more focused on work. I’m wondering if that’s because we do a lot of nosework and he’s always on leash for that? He did struggle with the far jump when he was on my right, so I had to provide more support for him on that one.
Any suggestions on the focus issue and running off?
Hi- I tried to post my video from our first teeter game and apparently I didn’t hit submit- whoops. So I’ll post the latest rep.
The teeter is an obstacle we have struggled with. I started with running to the top and slowly lowering the tip assist to drop more and more . I didn’t love his drive to the end so I stopped this and worked on end of the board games on a low teeter and wobble board. The teeter has been a struggle too since Chapter was getting over threshold once it started moving and would cause him to bark and take off running. With this exercise he seemed fine and to keep his composure and I did like his drive to the end. Progress!
Since this course has so many different elements- can we post video of jumps and teeter, etc. or should we stick to one at a time?
I’m also going to skip the other contact games since Chapter has a good running aframe and dog walk so that’s one area that is going really well!
That makes sense about the Third jump and his arousal and stuff. I’ll be sure to try those suggestions.
Back to serps! Things went a little better lol! I’m still struggling with the third jump of the SERP- especially when we do the SERP heading towards the tunnel. He’s such a big strided dog and much faster than me I feel out of position but with the SERP timing I can’t be too far ahead. I did notice on reps when he didn’t do the SERP it was because I did not indicate come in with my inside arm ( like on the last rep). I think these are getting better- or at least they feel better when we get it.
I took a break from serps last night to work on the FC and tunnels. For the first try going right and left Chapter ran around the third jump. It didn’t matter if it was the go or the FC. I do think I’m still late on this and need to spin faster in the cross even on the reps where he got it.
After a break we tried the FC the other direction which went similar to the other side. He ran wide the first time on jump three and then got it the second rep. I have no idea what he looked at during the rep on the video after the first jump of the or wheel. The BC attempt was a mess at the end I think because I lost connection. By the last few reps he wasn’t sending to the farthest jump on the pinwheel anymore. I’m not sure if he was tired, hot, or was confused on what we were doing. That’s the last video.
Even when he got the Third jump of the pinwheel he went pretty wide- will that get better with experience or is there something i should do to try to tighten that up?
