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Prop sends with counter motion.
Handling: Blind Cross, Collection, Extension
Watching the video, it looks like I stepped towards her a little in the beginning. Sometimes she was distracted with the tunnel behind the camera and that caused her to bow a little. She hasn’t bowed previously on the “GO”s. I’ll take the hit for that.> For threadles, I would think tunnel threadles/contact discriminations will be more useful
> in the short term than jump threadles – how is she doing with those?That should be on the list, too. But I consider them different. I have a different verbal cue for tunnel discrimination and I want my threadles to mean come off the line, but then turn away. I think you do the same thing. So I don’t think of the tunnel discriminations as the same thing. I work on that a lot, I haven’t done it yet on the contacts because I’ve used jumps instead with directional cues.
> And on the sequences here that require threadles… you can play with them using double
> crosses instead (FC-BC or BC-BC). That will challenge her to watching you “upstairs” and
> not just motion on the double blinds in particular, and it will challenge you to see her
> head turning as the ‘permission’ to do the 2nd cross.Avoidance….that’s my handling style. My timing on the double blinds with her is not good and unlike Lever who commits 1 mile ahead and so I have to be EXTREMELY early, Pose is a normal dog (and young) so she pulls off of the obstacle easily. Okay, so I need to add another item to my list…you aren’t helping me here – 🙂 😉 I’m adding to my list!!! LOL
At least I checked off my BIG avoidance handling in teaching rear crosses. I think Lever learned it finally when we got to Masters. We didn’t start Novice/Starters with rear crosses and that’s where we needed them the most. Pose has a rear cross now.
> The 4-5 serp is a hard jumping line because she has to do the lead changes with
> pressure/convergence from you (and lots of speed!) and she did it nicely 🙂 It falls
> into #3 on your skills list 🙂Yes, I was SUPER happy with that because that’s not always pretty.
> >> For some reason, she finds patters and if I do some back sides, then she won’t do the
> front side. Even with balancing both. (Lever used to do that, too). So is it genetic or is it me?
>
> Both? LOL!Yes – both of them!! More so than Schema, Score, and Reason. Although I didn’t know what I was doing when I was running Reason and maybe even Score.
> Voodoo is only half BC and I get the behavior because he is 100% herding breeds.
> I do not see this in the BC/terrier mixes at all. It is interesting!That’s interesting.
> Anyway – my answer to it is to do shorter sessions and balance the skills on an almost
> 1:1 ratio, so the dogs pattern less.
That’s what I try to do…however, if the dog is making mistakes then I stay on that skill longer. I assume you mean 1:1 when each skill is successful? Or do you do 1:1 when you are teaching it, too?> On Pose’s video: You can move more on the parallel path (shoulders open to her) to the
> backside, so it isn’t verbal only and then you can show her the slight shoudler turn
> to the front side – start the verbal then do the handling/motion, so the verbal starts
> to predict the handling that will follow it.Good plan!! New cue/old cue. She’s reading the body pressure quite well, but I need her to hear the verbal. Thanks!
> I add a name call before the front side cue to basically say to the dog: “hey there, this
> is your early alert that different info is coming” So as she comes around the previous
> jump, you can go directly to the push cue when you want the push to the backside. When you
> want the front side, you can add a name call (or anything that you might use as an
> early attention cue): “Pose Pose jump” (or directional or anything that would indicate
> the front of the jumpI like this!! Thanks!
>> And it is a watch-her-head moment – hold the front cue until you see her head
> basically saying “What?” then give a front cue (or sometimes just reward the
> acknowledgement of your alert cue. I guess in some ways it is like an opt-in on the run LOL!Totally agree. She’s giving me her attention, so I can then cue it. Great analogy!!
> As you work the threadles, keep your feet moving forward towards the next jump rather
> than rotating in towards her. That way you can keep moving forward through those threadles
> to get to the next spot on course. You were rotating your feet and it helped her hear
> but eventually we will want to fade that.Thanks for catching that! I don’t want to be stuck doing that.
> For a heartbeat on 6 at :11 it looked like you were going to do a blind, then you tried
> to get the connection back – but your running line was strong and she knew which end
> of the tunnel to get 🙂Yes, I remember that heartbeat thought, now. Oh, wait…was there a BC here? No!!
> Rep 2: I REALLY liked the timing of your turn cue for 5 at :21 here! She was landing
> from 4 at a zillion miles per hour and you were already delivering the info – so she
> set up a lovely wrap 🙂Yes, I was SO happy with that turn.
Thanks so much for all your comments. They are SOOOO helpful!!
Glad to hear that I was “backwards enough” LOL!!
Great idea about the lowered cookie delivery. That will definitely help.
“For now, hold your send cue position until she is about a step away from the prop when you are at that distance away from it. You released it a tiny bit early at :30 and :47 (for the distance).”
Got it!
Thanks!
Interesting that the bar would come down on the convergence, I can see that happening because of the lead changes/turns involved! That is a good skill to isolate – from a stay and a wing replacing the weaves (to save her body from having to weave when we are working the concept on the jump) – you can work on a low bar with the wing where the entry is (going to the backside of the wing). Start with the wing on an easier line then gradually work it to further and further away so there is more and more convergence. You would start on the entry wing of 9 so you are in motion during this (unless that is too hard, then you would start further across).
Something like this:Oh, I like this!! And just in time because we have a heat wave coming. We’ve had a long stretch of upper 90’s heat with high heat indices. Yesterday and today were beautiful!! But we are going back to heat again. So these short sequences are really perfect for us.
I looked at the skills for Package 3 and I think we have the GO skills. I didn’t bother doing them. The skills with the threadle needed to be isolated and revisited. I did a little with this about a year ago, but decided to table that for a while. I worked on some easier ones today.
I have a list of skills that I’m building and adding to:
1) Weaves counter motion
2) Get Out
3) Convergence on the line
4) Bars on the way to tunnels (had an opportunity to work that today)
5) Threadles
6) Backsides vs. FrontsideToday, I did the Novice sequence #1 & #3. Sequence 2 had a threadle and she’s not ready for that in a sequence yet. Gotta fill in those holes!!
Novice Sequence 1
This was pretty easy for us. We’ve been working hard on serpentines and that’s a skill we’re both pretty comfortable with.
Front side vs. Back side
This is something we worked hard on last year. But preparing for trials has had me working less on the back sides. During the heat in the next week or so, my plan is to work on that verbal. For some reason, she finds patters and if I do some back sides, then she won’t do the front side. Even with balancing both. (Lever used to do that, too). So is it genetic or is it me? 🙂 Anyway, she struggled a lot with this and I had to help her with upper body pressure. Then she would look for the backside when I cued the front side. :-/
Threadles
We had to review threadles. Ooops.
Novice Sequence 3
This was pretty easy. But she got on the wrong side of me in the first rep after the last serpentine. She read the line, but because I wasn’t connected enough, she went to the wrong side. Still not enough connection on that second rep and I think a pattern evolved. I should have set up a pattern to send her into the other end of the tunnel next. then gone back to this again. I could have been better, but I also think she found a pattern.
Here is the next session of prop sends. I did this session while there was an agility lesson in the next ring, so there was a lot of distractions. She has such nice focus for a 7 month old. I started with the sideways sends and then did a few backwards sends although I wasn’t always completely facing backwards.
Yes, once I got going, I got better about using her standby behavior (stand and make eye contact) as an “opt in” – she was ready for me to cue her. I use it a lot when I want to cue a behavior. When she does that behavior, she gets a burst of energy when I cue her. You should see her eyes bug out waiting for me to give her a cue. It’s hilarious. Thanks for catching that. I realized that I should have been doing that more once I got going.
I’m afraid of the ready/ready game because her front feet will be off the ground and all over the place and I’ve worked hard on keeping them down. It’s a good thing she’s small!!
I really like doing this with food because I will get a lot more reps doing it and I can control the starting position better. But I’ll play with it a little with toys. She’s pretty good going back and forth between toys and food. She loves both!!
And yes, I did do the facing forward first. This is the next session after that. Sorry, I should have mentioned that.
Oh that’s so exciting about the tech changes! Thank you!!
I think I’ll keep going with the retrieves because I’m happy with her returns and her head carriage. She does not slam herself into the ground for the toy. She just likes to dissect and push the toy into the ground once she has it. Think killing rodent after grabbing it.
I had some time to do some prop sends. I made some adjustments as we went along. I’ll add changes to my position in our next attempt.
> and the RC to the weaves is a fine way to do it – but you can get a lot closer
> to the 9 jump so it is more of a serpentine than a rear on the flat.I know I can get closer to that jump. But with the way this course laid out, I’m pretty sure that I would need to be further ahead between that jump and the weaves to set that serp line. Otherwise the bar at 9 would have come down because of converging on the line. Or maybe I’m not understanding.
> On the weaves to 11: will she handle you doing the FC (or a BC) while she is at pole 4 or 6?
I am currently working lots of counter motion and motion training in the weaves. But I don’t think she could handle an early cross at this time.> Based on how you set this, the wrap is probably the fastest choice but feel free to
> also play with the slice – with her ground speed, it might be faster!I went with the wrap because her verbal cues for the backside are not solid. I didn’t want to keep doing weaves to try it. But this is something I could set up with 6 poles so she doesn’t have to weave so much.
> so I suggest a FC 14-15 and send to the 16 tunnel from your right side to get ahead.
I have no idea why I did a BC to get her on my left on the way to the tunnel. It must have just happened. 🙁> You did the FC here and yes, get going LOL!!!
That was my plan….I was shocked when I looked at the video and I had done a blind there. Maybe that was remnants from the first course.> On the last tunnel, you were in a better position for the out for sure! You can play with different
> verbals as a “heads up, something is coming!!” such as a POSE POSE OUT OUT right before
> she goes in – that can get her looking for your cue instead of looking at the line at the exit.
Good ideas. I need to train this skill. I’ve been avoiding it because of “time” that was spent on other things…that I enjoy more. I finally trained a RC (and I SUCK at training RCs – so avoidance there, too).> Course 3:
> You hesitated at 3-4 then took off, I think you can drive her through there with more acceleration.
Oh yeah, I see that. Talk about being stuck.> I would also try the slice on 5 – it might be slightly more yardage but fewer
> turns and a faster weave entry, and should result in a faster line overall.
I think I was avoiding the turn away, since it’s on my list to continue to train. Bad Nancy!! :-/ I blame the heat.> Question – on the release from the teeter on the first run, what word did you use?
I use a release cue when the line to the next obstacle is straight forward. I use a directional – like turn away, or out, and in this case I used push for her backside cue. She doesn’t always do them on the first rep during course work. But she’s getting better.> I did hear your push but she was already heading to the front.
You might have heard the second or third time I said it. 🙂 She probably left for the front side with the first push cue.I handled Lever the same way. The release cue on stopped contacts was always used, except if I had to change his line (tunnel turn away verbal, don’t take the straight ahead tunnel – take the one closer to me verbal cue, push OUT to the outer obstacle instead of straight ahead and backside of the jump straight away).
> She had the bar at :57 – you said tunnel while she was in the air, so it might have
> been a bit of a distraction? Definitely something to show her again – “mom might talk
> while you are over a bar, please don’t touch it, we give prizes for not touching” LOL!
> She was fine with it on the 2nd time through.She rarely drops bars, but occasionally on the way to the tunnel, she does. I think next time it happens, I will go into training mode and work through it. I generally don’t do many reps when I train. I make notes and set up those skills on the other days where I’m not running courses. But she needs courses!!!! We both need them. You can work on skills forever, but it has to all get put together for success. 🙂
> For the next step…. what does she really enjoy in terms of excitement on course – chasing
> you as you run? Chasing a thrown reward? Going to a tunnel or a high value obtacle?She doesn’t LOVE the chasing me. But she loves to chase a toy. I hate to throw the toy a lot because it’s hard on their bodies. But I can toss it to her as she comes by and she loves that. Going through a tunnel is also really fun. Good idea about using high value reinforcement strategies for the head turn.
Thanks so much!!
I’m not sure it was the smartest thing to do – but we are doing both CAMPs.
I have a question for you about navigating the site. Is there a way to go direction from the forum to the game packages? The only way I know to get there is to click on my courses, which takes me to all the courses. Then I have to click on the course I was already in before. Then I have access to the Forum and the class syllabus. Is there a link on the forum page that would take me directly to the home page of the class? It would be nice to be able to go back and forth easily between the two of them without multiple clicks. But maybe the answer for me is to set up multiple tabs in my browser.
I also have a question on the toy play. I’m working really hard on retrieves right now with Differ. I have a chase game with eye contact that I play and I’m breaking things down as I see the need. She has had a difficult time carrying toys and keeping her head up – it’s gotten SOOOO much better. And you would never know. But that’s what I’m focused on right now because she can’t come back to me with the toy, if she doesn’t know how to carry it with her head up. That’s my current focus with toys. I don’t think we need any more chase games to the toy because we did that a while ago and she’ll leave me in the dust. And what I really want is that she drives to the toy and then brings it back instead of burying it into the ground. I’m working really hard now on her returning toys so I can use toy tosses for reinforcement. So, I’ve been isolating that part. She’s doing a great job of that right now. Is there something you want to see within all that I’ve described, or is it okay to skip that part?
Thanks!!
I was able to try your suggestion for Course 1 getting to jump 13 directly by layering the tunnel. I would have never thought of it. But it actually worked. I had to use MORE verbal energy to send her, but that was pretty cool. Thanks! I didn’t bother with the video to save on video time.
Also, thanks for the video on the opposite arm. That was very helpful. During the Masters Course 2, there was another issue there for us. It’s definitely something we both need work on. I can see in the video that I’m not showing as much chest towards her to help her change leads. I will put that on my list to practice.
Here is Masters Course 2:
This is the entire session. It was hot and I was happy with most of this – especially her turn cues at the tunnels (when I used them correctly). I was not happy with the line to the weaves, which wasn’t her fault. I did a RC on the landing of 9 and that briefly showed her the teeter. It was a severe S turn to the weaves. I really would have loved to get a cross in at the exit of the #8 tunnel. But I couldn’t figure out how to do that.As I said, I still need to work on the “Out” behavior. I didn’t want to work it here. It’s easier for me to work sequencing one day and then break off the skills for the next day. It does neither of us good to work both at the same time.
Here is Masters Course 3:
Again, this is the entire session. First time through, I worked through some kinks. Then put it together. She was having trouble with the backside from the teeter. I wasn’t able to get ahead to get a cross in before the #10 tunnel when I put it together. She turned the wrong way. And I couldn’t fit #16 into the course. But we had plenty of skills to work on.
Head Turns with a ToyI also wanted to give you a check up on her head turns on the jumps. I saw a new post on head turns that you did with CB. But this was using a toy instead of food, so I wanted you to see it. I was happy with this. Let me know where I should go with it.
Thanks so much for your comments on the skills section. It’s been so hot that I haven’t had much time to do anything. But I did manage to set up the Masters Course because I want to work these slowly in the next 4 days (too hot here to do more than one or two reps). Heat index is over 100. Lucky for me, I have a shaded area, but it’s still very hot for the dogs (and me).
I did Course 1. We had a hard time from the tunnel #12 to #13. Jump 13 is very close to the trees because the tree line is there. I barely got this course into the space I have. That jump is set to 16 because there isn’t much room on the landing. Plus there is a tree branch that leans into the wing. It’s pretty hidden and so that also contributed to the difficulty of this part of the course – even if my handling was different. Also, jump 15 is very close to the tree line. I was going to set up pieces of this course instead of the entire course because of the issues fitting it into my field…. but I decided to set it all up so that it’s ready to go when it’s shaded or not raining.
She really needed my outside arm to help her with the OUT for the #13 jump.
Sorry about that. I edited the post above to include the correct link. But I’ll also include it here so that it’s easier for you.
I’ve continued to work on head turns with Pose and I’ve added a toy and she’s much happier! I’ll check back in when I have more.
It’s wicked hot here and will be for another week. I’m luck in that my working area is mostly shaded, but it was still hot!! I set up sequence 1 & 2, but I didn’t know there was an extra jump in Sequence 3 and I would have had to move the tunnel to get that jump into the sequence. I opted to leave it for today.
I was pretty happy with her during these – all the errors were on me – either handling or lack of training.
Here are all the reps from Sequence 1:
Here is everything from Sequence 2:
Hi Tracy,
I’ve been working the head turns for a few days now. I have a very difficult time working her with food because she is not a food girl. But I put all the toys away and she was able to work for food.I wanted you to see these to make sure that things look good. Let me know what should be changed and where I should go from here.
Thanks!
I hate multi-wraps, too. They feel like punishers to me and mostly done when the dog has turned wide. So let’s take the dog down a few notches and add some mindless multi-wrapping!! 😉 Most of those dogs never will get it right the first time because it hasn’t been trained. I think the dogs really do want to find the best way to do the turns. And I can certainly understand how they might not want to turn the head during jumping. Turning it on landing makes more sense. I really like this concept!!
