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I guess I’ve been terrible at tunnel exit connection for a while! Ugh
I have to put a lot of effort into looking right at the dog on the exit and maintaining it for the GO.
Is it cheating to put the toy on the “go” line?
Prism really needed (for me to practice) this lesson. I hope it’s OK to substitute him on the advanced component.
We gave proofing another try: https://youtu.be/cBWmFIhNM7E?feature=shared
Here is games2 first attempts. I need a lot of tips and pointers for these, please.
I’ll move no collar dragging to the “don’t do it” category.
Thank you.Here is video of the improvements you recommended.
Much better at cookie set ups.
Shorter sequences for wraps.
Eliminated stressful discrimination for the moment.
Better connection-hopefully.
Wider bumps for set point and longer spacing to R+. So happy I remembered we have bumps at the club field!
Could be better at ball toss for wind in hair-GO. (Holees got stuck in my fingers) But we had a good time with Focus Forward given some distracting rewards laying around.I think we moved in too big of a step from our maxpup1 collar hold-toy-get-its to the tunnel-wrap proofing. He was having a blast at collar-hold-toy-gets-its with baby level distance and greater (very exciting).
So we did our collar hold-barrel wrap and it went well (video coming). Then we’ll do collarhold-tunnel and sort this out more stepwise.Here is set point with 2 bumps. You get to see his very first rep ever! I closer’d the bumps on next reps. He’s so cute! I’ll use a MM next set.
I tried a placed ball for wind in hair, but he didn’t see it. So tossing (the heavier toy) was a better result. This is a good one for (me) practicing verbals! We added distance; next time will try jogging.
Here is some video of the setting up for proofing tunnel/wrap. I try tugging him to my side,but he rotates away from the set up direction.
We used a cookie for set up on set point and that worked well. Since I don’t want to use the collar to move him into position, I picked him up. He tolerated that ok. I tried to coax with a cookie and the toy, but he leaves. I have been working (only a little) on a set up position; maybe I should move that to a higher priority. I don’t think he minds the collar hold, we’ve been doing that for the toy (sit, wait, toss toy, release to toy, praise and play) with huge success. I was dragging him (ugh! I’m so sorry!) for the proofing game. I forgot the ultimate goal is the process, not how fast we learn the game!I’m very Familiar with latent learning and know how to walk away from a session without getting to the planned goal. Maybe we could make set up and collar hold our goal without the discrimination.
Great info–concepts. That’s the word I was feeling. We do puppy level drills and the puppy is learning, but they don’t really *know* the skill. We’re building relationship, and how to learn, and other process concepts. We have to revisit and build levels as they mature. I saw that Crescent did well on a lot of these exercises, but I know he doesn’t *really* know what he’s doing, he’s just having fun-which is what i think is the real point. Thank you for pointing out the real goals here (concepts). I may have to hear this a few times.
I love *your* dog names! Like Ramen Cup O Noodles! That’s the best! So I thought I had a sensitive pup, but turns out the pressure was from Prism hanging nearby, not me. But he isn’t terribly fond of collar holds (yet). The next thing I realized is that he is so ready for this! Wow! I had no idea he was saving up everything he has been watching! We didn’t do set point. Do I hold off for a few weeks, or modify it for age?
Hi Tracy,
I agree with all those comments where you used the video timer to point out what was happening. Thank you for spelling out the “fell on his head” at 3:14. Yes, on the turning early at 5:19 and no cue at 4:43. These last two are issues I bring forward from Ginger-even though she tried to coach me loudly. That CONNECTION pop up really showed me where and how to execute connection for countermotion (the “WHY” is clear). I also have your COUNTERMOTION seminar to work through (that’s next). Everyone around me is probably tired of me saying, “Tracy said this and Tracy said that.” I don’t care. Learning is awesome!I am sending video of SERP vs. Threadle (to challenge the VORTEX temptation).
I think Prism really has a good understanding of the SERP and maybe this is Vortex, or maybe the physical cue is overriding the verbal threadle- I see confusion more than Vortex. I see a question mark over his head when he takes the SERP jump without the big leap he does when it is really a SERP. I tried to play with the phase 1-toy after the wrap, but realized I should have feet facing forward, rather than the false turn footwork. Did you call this “grapevine” in the other comments? Your reference to this was that it was a good thing (because Prism read it properly), but I thought you said NOT to face backward (Like we all have done for years) but to keep moving forward. I also played with the toy in the outside arm. I thought one rep he really caught on, but that was short lived. I played with really cranking my feet to face forward AND use outside arm (more real world, I think). Please help.
[in re-reading this, I think I should video what Barb has taught me for physical cue on Threadle and see how that fits. In this class we have been trying to train verbals such that the motion does not help, but I get the feeling this maneuver ought to have the correct physical cue associated with it]Yes, I WANT to use the marker word, “GET IT” in place of “YES” but I often forget. I DO have “MINE” for the “toy is not available”. The reset cookie (which I think should be called an effort cookie——- but I get it, because we are resetting for the next rep) is really working. Prism now expects a cookie at set up instead of fighting with me and the toy. And since we are on this topic…I have been wondering about the dogs who bite their owners at the end of a run (because they are used to tugging a toy at the end of a sequence) and dogs who run to get their leash (and miss a last jump or turn by the gate). Does your experience plan on this when the toy is thrown or placed OFF the human?
Last video I was honestly trying to put the toy (red ball) on the exit line and I was making the error of placing it as a distraction. Ugh!!! I did not mean to test him.Thank you for the wide open courses and spacing advice on the exercises.
I am SO WORRIED we will never get the turns at speed. I KNOW I need to trust the process and keep showing him the progressive challenges in brief segments (my first super fast agility BC). Ginger was very fast when she was younger, but she always turned tightly (loved UKI)-unless I missed a cue and earned another off-course (our typical AKC issue). Once she and I learned power steering, it seemed like she slowed down, such a smooth and efficient jumper. Prism and I are so far ahead (of Ginger and I) in our training!Weather is 70 degrees, breezy, overcast, near sunset (kinda chilly really). 5 min break between these two.
Thank you for the feedback once again. I am taking tons of notes and making diagrams.
I am a physical therapist. I have my own practice (solo) for 12 years. Everyone and their brother in law is here this time of year, but with COVID winding down and everyone traveling again-especially to Florida, our roads and businesses are packed. Season winds down in April, so I am happy to be near the end.
Today’s weather was overcast and 75 and breezy. We played in the hose between exercises.
video 1: Threadle-CLOSEWe have done a bit of IN-IN (a my-side-back-side) which is also “come to me and turn away” and the physical cue is the same look, so he is pretty good at this, except that we have only done it from easy angles and set-up from a sit. So this has motion and the harder angle!!
Before you watch, you should have a drink. I made a bunch of errors with the toy-but before you crawl through the camera to bonk me on the head, I do eventually figure out my mistake (spoiler alert).
Video 2: lateral-OUT
Not so sure of the set up-seemed too simple. Like, where is the off course temptation…Video 3: real world combo a)as demo’d (wrap, soft, rear) b) with the tunnel as off course.
a) Prism did super with the turns getting them mostly all correct.
B) All I needed was to see if I could turn him off of the tunnel, which we did. Maybe you have some insight into helping this sequence. We have only done a couple of sequences at home. Ginger and I did UKI 30×30 at home courses and those are brain-busters. Not recommended for dogs with speed or emotional issues. (Funny, not funny)I showed a drill (the FAST LINES CHALLENGE) to Barb (Davis) as I have been pretty excited about this course and how much it has helped us prepare for her lessons. I think she sees how well Prism is doing (and is a bit surprised as we are able to meet her challenges without any struggle. I am very pleased with myself). Her comments were complimentary on the way you lay out progressive challenges in each exercise. Her only reprimand, to me, was to use the barrel instead of the wing wrap to start. We both studied under Lisa Frick last summer I think, when she posted TACO TUESDAY to train up her new puppy. All of April was barrel work. I think that was how Prism got to understand “FOCUS” on the start line and a training methodology of “rinse and repeat” or, for agility, “treat and repeat”, ha ha. She used tons of praise and simple set ups, so no errors.
Hope your teaching session and long drive was rewarding for you and your students.
It is high season here, so I am working a lot. This is our entire training session today. I tried to focus on GO, since we had some trouble with this previously. You advised to start Prism going “the other way” around the start wing so he is looking straight at the GO jump. Based on where that start wing is… and I switched sides, I was a bit confused on which way to send Prism -but very clear on WHY- so I think we worked it out. (Let me know) You also said to start closer to the wing so he does not see me running past the serp jump. (Yay me, I remembered to do this and it worked!)
My ball throwing was too quick (gosh, sometimes you want to throw the reward on the line to help lure them to finish a maneuver, and sometimes you want to delay the toy toss to make sure they DECIDE. I did not do a very good job of praising the correct GO result either. 🙁
Once I don’t have to burn so many brain cells on the set up, maybe this will get easier. Poor puppy.
Despite this, Prism had another brilliant moment deciding to take the SERP jump on cue – overriding a strong urge to GO extension. I should have stopped there, but I think I asked for another rep and then Prism ended the session due to fatigue/heat and that is also not desirable. But I had to prepare for work and that was all we did all day. (Not ideal, I know).We are taking big chunks of time off and these exercises are a step harder – building new skills, progressing slowly.
I don’t know how to add a photo. But suffice to say, that after watching your threadle videos, the question is solved. The sequence was basically a threadle! Subtle, but there it is. Above our pay grade, for now. Glad we worked toy drop. Will get better with a proper set up into it.
The confusion I had went like this…Diana works left/right verbals on M.P. both toward and away…then tries to progress to a single bar doing turns toward and away, but using wrap verbals (for tight turns) shouldn’t Diana try to use soft turns (same type of v.c. as from M.P. before advancing to wrap cues)?
But I think you answered this… using a little handling to get them started is fine.Very Sorry I cannot be at the live session tonight.
I still say that awesome verbal skills from behind are like cheating! 😁😉 great success for your speedstakes run! Yippee
BTW, I think Prism had a lightbulb moment on the Minnie Pinnie exercise. And I could see the steam pouring out of his head when he made the choice to turn (right in this case). So we did a couple of more reps after this so he could understand the consistency. What a great puppy!!
Yes, Bratty Paws venue is awesome, been there a lot over the years. Planning to do NFC UKI when eligible. And will search out those USDAA trials when he is 18 months. So excited!!! Difficult to be patient. (Friends with moderate speed dogs who are not big jumpers)
Yes, getting warmer. We have a pond set up for the dogs to take a cooling plunge. Several videos have water breaks off camera. The verbal cue is “WATER” and he knows he can go in search of a tank, tub, pool, pond. The tanks are at herding, the pond in our yard, and the hose at our training site.
So sorry if I am not showing evidence of being careful with the heat. We really do watch the tongue length.Yes, the Brilliant Dogs UKI trials and BACON! They stopped doing bacon during COVID. (I only heard about the bacon. Ginger once jumped out of an AKC ring to go visit the cookie table. She was shopping for treats. Everyone had a good laugh-thank goodness because AKC can be a little stiff.)
Thank you for pointing out the stride length and judges issue. I think I have that issue with a local trainer who sets up courses with illegal spacing and tight turns. Now that you spell it out for me, I think I should not take Prism there, or modify the course presented, what do you think? Certainly right now, modify the course for success. (You can imagine that she only draws small dogs, young handlers, and those dogs are all moderate speed). I feel like I had a V8 (or was smacked in the head to pay attention). Ginger (poor girl) put up with all of my mistakes.
We worked on tricks and conditioning this weekend and had a lesson in Miami. Do you know Tracy Hanna? I told her my desire to use verbals with the correct rate/rhythm. She busted my chops on being too loud/energetic on my wraps. And we had a discussion on the degree of turn desired-from the dog’s perspective-and which v.c. Should be used. The turn was tighter than a 90 , but not a wrap. UGH!! We used a toy drop and the wrap cue. What do you think? I love Tracy. She asks for my criteria and holds me to it. She takes video (Prism is pretty fast) and she looks for dog behavior/cue timing. She recognizes frustration, etc.
For practice we did the Minnie Pinnie because we tried one jump and Prism had no clue what I meant (without handling help). On the M.P. I really tried to use correct rate/rhythm with v.c. And use reset cookies, and start “easy” and progress to “hard” on each side (still had an error on side change). So I think this was the correct decision to back up and do the simpler exercise while I corrected all of my previous handling inconsistencies. ( did you see the pre-cue handling-arm swing- I did on a left rear cross?) is this allowed?
Session ended because UPS truck came to house. But we would have ended soon anyway. I think we will repeat this exercise, but need to increase speed/excitement for progressive challenge (perhaps move to the one jump exercise from the course). Thanks for your advice.P.s. It is confusing to work Minnie Pinnie with LEFT/RIGHT Soft turns and then work the course progression with the one jump turns using the wrap cues.
Also. Thank you for clearing up the start-wrap position. I have a lot of confusion about which way to send the dog around the start wing. And your explanation about setting the dog line is great.I really like UKI best but Ginger could never work at a field without real ring gates, and USDAA is a fun challenge but limited opportunity. Then AKC has a lot of opportunity, but not so much fun (for me). I would like to be competitive enough to be on the podium at local CUP/CLASSIC events in UKI and qualify for US OPEN Master Series and USDAA nationals. (Ginger got us qualified for USDAA nationals last year but only 1 Q run, though many were beautiful, and we got to finals in Biathelon-UKI_US OPEN and Q runs in all of our events) If we (PRISM) get good enough to go to a WTT or similar, that would be bonus. I mostly use the 4’ bars in my yard due to space. We did a lot of 30×30’ UKI at home in the early months of the quarantine.
Thank you for the reset cookie info. I tried to put it to use. It reminds me of the principle of REWARD THE EFFORT. This is a concept that I just really learned last year in an obedience course online. I wish I had learned it earlier-using various levels of praise/marker/reward/heaps of joy- as we attain progressive APPROXIMATION of the goal behavior.
Here are 3 of our previous exercises using the advice from your comments. So many little things to clean up.
PUSH
CIRCLE
SERP vortex (please help)
WOW, I went through your feedback and took a lot of notes on the last two sessions. I have a lot of little things to work on in each exercise. I love the way you are shaping MY behavior!! LOL. I will work on them and try to label them properly. (Meaning, I have to know what my intended exercise is supposed to be first! Yikes)
HELP, I need a clearer picture of the “RESET COOKIE” to prevent the GO VORTEX. (Or any vortex, love that phrase!!). I have used a RESET COOKIE during conditioning exercises and to get Prism off of the platform (especially when I need to adjust the spacing or angle and he won’t get off!!) but I am in a small, indoor space and my goal is to get him off or away from me to start over. What would a RESET COOKIE look like on an agility field? Won’t he lose the cookie in the turf? (There are leaves and stuff around but I am SO SPOILED about the surface-believe me-I have worked for years with ugly dirt/Florida weeds.) Maybe I use a whole meatball, lol?
Maybe the toss is nearby me or maybe toss a few cookies like Charlie Bears so he DOES take time to find them (and POOF, vortex dissolved).I finally pulled out the 5’ bars for the most recent exercise (SERP vs GO).
