Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
“Is “get it” specific to the Manners Minder?” No, but “get it” would be for any reward that the dog is running towards. So, a food bowl on the ground, a tossed treat or the MM on the path. Here is a short video I did with Keltie. On the start line, I use “food” to turn her back and “break” to go forward to the jump and then “get it” to run to the MM for reward on the path. I was pointing to get her to turn back but on the last rep she was able to do it on the verbal. “Cookies” is for the remote reward, left outside the ring. I’m sorry you can’t hear me but I have a neighbor who has speakers mounted on the property line and as soon as a dog barks he plays white noise through the speakers. It took about a year for me to get the dogs to the point that we can continue training so it it just annoying not debilitating. I was careful to say the verbal “food” before I pointed and I think she gets it.
I am hoping to use the MM with “get it” to build her drive and speed. The idea is to start with just a couple of obstacles that she can run fast and then gradually add more. Does that sound like a good idea?Back to Buccleigh. “Chilling out on a mat”. This has always been really difficult for him. This particular environment is really high on the distraction list. So high that he doesn’t even snuffle in a snuffle mat-he just takes the cookies he can see and then he starts barking. A frozen topple works but only for as long as it takes hime to empty it and he can be pretty fast. This is the first time I used a chin rest and that worked which is a little closer to a chill behavior. I am starting to try a little personal play which he is starting to attempt. He does not have an “off” button that I have found.
Back to reinforcements. We trial with AKC so I need to leave the rewards before we enter the ring. I can leave it at the exit and I show him where it is. We need to enter and leave the ring on the leash. So I am trying to mimic that in training. “– as with Buccleigh… do this on leash ” In the video I have attached, I set up the reward “cookies” on the fence. It’s a blue pouch. I start there showing it to him and giving him some and then we walk on the leash to the start line. He sits, I take the leash off and lead out. I say “break” he does a few obstacles and then I want to put the leash on and leave for the reward “cookies”. As you see on the video the first part works pretty well but getting him to come to me to get the leash on is a problem. This is pretty much what happens at trials too since we can’t just run for the cookies. I am not sure how to fix this but it seems like I should be able to add it to a reinforcement loop but I a not sure how to do this. After our break, I tried putting the MM on the path at the end of the run “get it”. That gave me time to get the leash on and then go to “cookies”. I am also thinking maybe I need to train with lot’s of rewards just coming to me to get the leash on. Does he know that the leash ends the run and he doesn’t want to leave? He is usually pretty excited at the end and looking for the next obstacle. That’s what it feels like. Especially since often after we get out of the ring and he eats his cookies he will lie down and won’t move without lots of persuasion. This video is long. I cut out some of the reps but I wasn’t sure what you needed to see. He did start to get slow off the start line. It could have been too many reps or the spooky neighbor working in his yard and yelling at us before he turned on the white noise. Believe it or not, Buccleigh was much less distracted after the machine came on (so was I!). I don’t think I was very confident either which tends to slow him down. His start lines were good. he missed one in the beginning but got the rest and a couple of “catches” too.:-)
I am going to start with my response to the marker words. I understand the differences so I am going to add a new marker for our turn back back to the food. It is going to be “food”. I am going to keep “cookies” for the reward outside the ring marker. If I release them forward to take the jump I use the word break and then I can run with them back to the manners minder and use the marker “get it”.
I have been working on the focus and engagement exercise with Buccleigh for a while-ever since your Zoom workshop in September. We attend a class that is in a storefront in a strip mall. The classroom is a large room and the dogs who are not running stay in the same room. Neither of my dogs can do that, there is just too much action. So we have been working on staying focused in the storage room which is just a walled off area next to the big room. Last night we hit a milestone. I was able to keep Buccleigh’s focus so we had two good runs and he could hold his start line. I made a video. The first part is a couple of cuts from the storage room focus games. I tried a chin rest like in your video. The total time we were working in the storage room was about 11 minutes. Then we did our run. We usually run the course twice. This was the first time I attempted a start line stay since we started working on it with your start line course in September. It worked (I did the pink panther walk)! I cut a lot of the first run as we worked on my timing but I showed the second attempt at the start line. He was a little distracted but we did a quick focus game and we got the start again and then a pretty good run.
We were happy. So that is a pretty extreme example of a distraction and he showed that he can play the focus game under those conditions. We have a way to go yet but this is definitely good progress.
But I think what you are trying to tell me is that I need something less extreme to use to practice the games. So since I haven’t done the focus game with Keltie we practiced using the Manners Minder as the distraction and I made a short video of that.
I could also use a food bowl and I have a couple of toys that hold food that would also capture their interest. And once a week I have the storage room at class as a more challenging distraction :-).
Am I on the right track?Here are the distraction lists. I am going to focus on distractions that we encounter either training or at trials.
Buccleigh
1. Other dogs running agility (excited)
2. Tunnel noise of handler saying “tunnel” (excited)
3. Some judges in the ring, especially those that kind of quietly appear suddenly in his view (scary)
4. Me talking or paying attention to Keltie (excited, reactive?, guarding?)
5. Some dogs, especially Black and white Border collies (reactive)
6. Start line (excited, anxious), especially at trials less so in class (after a lot of work), not so much at home, but ill build if we do too many.Keltie
1. any new environment (cautious, reserved, needs to have lots of time to look it over before she moves)
2. any unexpected noise (beep on a scanner they were using near the start line) (cautious-needs to check it out before moving)
3. new dogs (bark)
4. Watching other dogs run (excited)
5. unexpected things in the ring, like the judge if they appear suddenly, fur on the ground or anything that looks like it could be eaten. (must stop and check)
6. Smells especially food (must stop and check). This could be a cheeseburger on a grill at a snack bar near the ring!I think they have both figured out that I want them to chase the flirt pole and they are on strike. I will keep trying but they aren’t biting! Under the right conditions inside they are both chasing a rope tug that is about 2 feet long. That’s progress, I think.
Question on the turning back for rewards video.
You used the cue “toy toy” to turn back for the reward. Then when you were on the field and you released forward and the dog did some obstacles you sent him back to the toy using a cue “Get it”. I have been using the same cue “get it” to turn back and also to go get the reward after a few obstacles. But I have also used “cookies” to cue for the reward I left at the start which would be the same as the reinforcement behind. I am confused about whether we need to use different verbal cues or can we use one and I am thinking that whatever it is, I should try to be consistent.I agree with your assessment. He usually starts slow especially if there are lots of turns. And he generally will speed up at the end. The part I don’t know how to do is “build in a lot of value for when you have to do a lot of turns and stopped obstacles in a row,” Do I do this with a remote reward by starting with one obstacle and then reward and then build up to two and three, etc. Or do I try to have places where I reward throughout a sequence with Loys of turns and stops?
Kathy
PS I got a chance to try the flirt pole with both dogs on the agility field. I ran with it and I tried to make it look like a pray animal. They were not interested in the slightest. I think I am going to have to tryout inside when they are really bored and then maybe they will build an interest.I fixed the video and here is the link
The catch procedure is working well for us. I am going to try to finish viewing the games in this section before the Zoom tomorrow.
I am working on the week 2 now and this is a response to specific training I would like to do. I think I can illustrate this best with two videos from recent trials. In the first video from October you can see Buccleigh being over aroused with frantic barking. We took your engagement workshop and he is now more relaxed at trials (also in day to day activities and agility classes-it’s been a real improvement and we are definitely having more fun and less stress). He is able to pay attention and stay engaged, but now I think he is more aware of his surroundings and he is nervous. You can see in the second video that he is aware of the judge and seems a bit nervous. I also observed that when he can go in a tunnel or do a contact his worry decreases. (When he was on the table in video 2, I was telling him what a good dog he was.) He loves agility so I am wondering if these rewarding activities help to relieve some of his worry. If that is the case, I am hopeful that we could build on this maybe with other reward applications to help him to find his confidence.
https://youtu.be/c3g2mc_Tlsk (wild Buccleigh)
https://youtu.be/lJaWZe1-AVQ (concerned Buccleigh)
This is a venue where we have trialed in the past but rarely have an opportunity to train with food in the ring. He can do all of our tricks, etc before we enter the ring. I haven’t tried our start line stay (we are working on your start-line stay class, too) because I am not confident he could do it once we are in the ring. We can do it most of the time in class now.:-)Playing with a ball is promising. Both dogs will chase it on the field and they could do it and take a couple of jumps and continue to chase the ball. I had some boring treats with me which they would eat but then they would chase the ball again.
I am not sure how to approach the week 1 lessons on playing with a toy. I am working on tugging and sometimes we can get a pretty good game going but it takes a lot of work on my part to get it started. Neither of the dogs will grab the tug spontaneously. Should I just keep playing with them to see if I can build a stronger interest before we try any of these games?
We are getting a little behind on our lessons but I hope to get caught up this week.Sorry I had to miss the Zoom call.
1. Buccleigh: Start line stay in the agility ring at a trial
2. Buccleigh and Keltie: Increased confidence in the agility ring at trials. Both of them worry. This makes Keltie very slow and this is a consistent behavior for her. Buccleigh is either like a little bomb waiting to explode or he is slow and will sometimes just stop and look at me. Frequent rewards in the ring help so I think that being able to move the rewards out of the ring will help.3. Buccleigh: Getting him to come to me at the end of the run. He has a tendency to head back to the start line and the gate we entered. I just realized that might be a product of my training our ring entry procedure at home where we exit and enter through the same gate. At agility trials we enter one gate and exit through a different one. Hmmm..
4. I would like to be able to build value for toys so that I have something we can do that’s fun other than just feeding them.
“Do you know what might trigger them to be nervous? Is it something like being at the vet? Or anything your might encounter in the training environment?”
At the vet they look calm but they just ignore the food. If they are too close to a passing car, another dog on the agility field that they can see or hear (dogs in tunnels or on the seesaw) they look frantic and either ignore the food or grab and it just sort of falls out of their mouth. Moving further away improves the situation. Buccleigh is controllable around cars as long as Keltie is not with us. They egg each other on. Keltie is still a work in progress. They are just the opposite with Agility equipment. Keltie can be distracted as long as she is about 30 ft away. Buccleigh needs to be further away and is much more aware of the sound.
“will they chase the treat hugger even if it doesn’t hav a treat in it? At least go to it, maybe pick it up?”
Buccleigh will chase and pick it up and even bring it to me although he drops it rather than giving it to me. He will also look for it if I say “find the toy”. Sometimes it takes a couple of “asks” to get home to do this. The ball works in a similar way. Keltie will chase the treat hugger but once she knows there is no food in it she is done. She will chase a ball and pick it up. She runs back to me but usually drops the ball on the way. I have been giving her treats on her return. I don’t know if they will chase a ball with distractions. Can you give me some examples of how to test this? They will chase a ball on our agility field, But I have only done this when we go out to chase the ball. I could try running a little agility and then seeing if I can get them interested in the ball. Would that be a way to test it?“We can use the chase element”. I have a “swift paws” lure coursing kit which Keltie absolutely loves. She is chasing a plastic bag on a string for that one. She will also chase a furry thing on a flirt pole. I haven’t tried the coursing thing with Buccleigh since he was rehabbing when I had it set up. He will also chase the furry thing on the flirt pole. I usually stand and fling the thing around for both of them. I haven’t been as successful getting them to chase it if I drag it when I run. I am going to try that today just to see what happens.
They both chase reflections and flashlights but I have tried very hard not to reinforce that since I think that could be a problem-it definitely reinforces the car chasing at night.
Both dogs are similar in their reward Hierarchies
Food
1. ___Raw meat_______________________________________
2. __Fresh Pet dog food________________________________________
3. _Zukes_________________________________________
4. _Liv-a-snaps_________________________________________
5. __Kibble________________________________________
Along with your rankings, jot down some notes about how environment (internal or external) might change the value of these reinforcements: _
If they are really nervous they can’t take the food. Either they ignore if or take it rapidly and then drop it.
When they are excited they get very sharky.Toy Reinforcement
1. Treat hugging toy__________________________________________
2. Rope tug__________________________________________
3. Sheepskin tug__________________________________________
4. _Ball_________________________________________
5. _Flirt pole________________________________________
Along with your rankings, jot down some notes about how environment (internal or external) might change the value of these reinforcements: _
Any distraction at all in the environment will distract them from playing with any toys. I am most successful at getting them to play with toys inside when there is nothing else going on. Introducing food into the environment pretty much stops toy play.___________________________________________________Activity Reinforcement
It’s hard to think of any activities that I could use for reinforcement. These are what I came up with. The first three actually have a component of food reinforcement so I think that might be the driving force, less than the activity itself.
1. Feeding time (fed from my hand and they do things like stay, down etc to earn their food)._________________________________________
2. Agility training__________________________________________
3.learning tricks/ conditioning exercises in the dog training room.
4. Buccleigh loves to go in the ocean and body surf. Keltie will not get her feet wet.
5. They both would like to chase cars, airplanes, anything with lights. Keltie will also chase chipmunks, etc. Buccleigh not so much.
Once they are aware of activities 1-3 it is difficult to distract them
