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Bobbie
Here is where we are on our work. I am putting together all the games that Zing has done on the road into one routine that I intend to use at trials. This is my backyard with the “gate” into the agility field. For Zing, the gate is the entrance to all things super exciting. She is almost less able to control herself here then in a trial.
Here is her start and snuffle mat, https://youtu.be/GCNSyQ8sYnU
Here is the continuation, where I go into 1-2-3 and find my face, https://youtu.be/hHP0yccOVnE
Interestingly, her start lines at home are getting MUCH better. We don’t have a trial for another 10 days so I won’t know about that improvement until then. Class is off this month as well.
Let me know your thoughts,
Mary
Bobbie
Several questions, all related to topics that you have brought up. I hope you don’t mind, I am a very curious person and always want to understand how things work LOL.
1. Resilience – As I am observing Zing, she has lots of situations in life where she is resilient and a few situations where she is not. I was at a 3 day trial this weekend, indoors, huge environment. I was filming to get Zing’s reaction to the ring and measure her resilience. She was engaged, played with me, if I stopped playing and let her watch (figuring she would start getting over stimmed) she would engage with me when asked. Another situation, I was training a RDW this morning with her. It was a very hard exit for her and she “failed” more than she succeeded. In this situation she is very resilient, could take failure, and would reset and run it again with a better hit. Never does she shut down or get overfaced.
The question/comment. When people talk about a “resilient” dog, it is a comment that implies to me it is always resilient, all situations. Zing is a “resilient’ dog in many situations, but has a few where she needs to build resilience. Are area’s of non-resilience in a dog commonly associated with a past trauma that created a trigger?
Here is some video that I did get with Zing getting overfaced a bit. At .17 I have no problems with her watching the ring, she re-engaged quickly. At .37 is where she had trouble re-engaging, it took her 10 seconds to re-engage as I walked away.
2. I saw in another person’s thread where she was asking if touch was used as a reward for relaxation. I believe that you said that was fine. I am a licensed K9 massage therapist, when massaging Zing she falls asleep or relaxes very quickly when I begin. In comparing the 2 situations, the massage and the relaxation protocol, the difference in Zing’s situation is largely using food or touch. I have her conditioned to relax with touch. 100% of her past relationship with treat food is lower stimulation training (but not relaxed). Isn’t food being a conditioned stimulus in this exercise for her? With the relaxation protocol am I trying to conditioning her to have a different response to food? Here is a video where I am using touch to relax her, then use food, then use touch. When I introduce food she is alert, but relaxed. I am sorry, I know this isn’t the exact exercise, but it occurred to me that Zing is very successful with touch. Is it a bad thing to combine these and create our own protocol for relaxation?
At 2.32 I introduced food. Mostly I was trying to see the difference in her body language and relaxation. She was relaxed, but engaged to me. At 8:00 she relaxed completely and went to sleep at 8:33.
2b. If I need to use food in Zing’s case, you have a video of the “beginning” and “finished” relaxation protocol behaviors in a dog. Very curious what the final behavior after many sessions looks like.
M
Bobbie
Here is Zing’s first time with relaxation excerise. Let me know if there is something you want changed
Mary
No I don’t herd with her anymore. I don’t withhold reinforcement at all from Zing in any environment.
Bobbie, thanks! Here is the novel of Zing’s life LOL
Yes, Zings Taffy behavior was the AF to backside, also the other video about 1.11 you will see it on a backside (I am not facing her). It seems like the vast majority of time it involves her internal debate of a backside or not. I re-trained, re-names, re-proofed the backside slice and she is so much better. But it is still there, rarely at home.
Sadly I don’t have any video’s of her warm-up. Tracy trained me well. When I get the dog out of the crate for their run, I am 100% focused on them and getting their mind and body ready to run. Never occurred to me to film it (and I film a lot)! The only video I would have after her run is still when she is in the ring. Do you want that?
Zing is a great dog to live with in every day life. I am retired and we live on an acre of land. It is just my husband and I and two other BCs. Hoot, female, just spayed, 8.5yrs. A very stable personality, never been in a altercation, but will signal to guest dogs
to leave her alone (my best guess). Joe, 1.5 yr, intact male, very, very friendly to all things with heart beats. Zing will play and interact with both dogs. She wrestles or tugs with Joe and only tugs with Hoot. We live with rules of respecting each other in the house, but generally the dogs are free to make decisions of what that looks like. Zing and Joe have their own kennels that they can escape/relax in, door is always open.In general the rhythm of the day is after coffee I exercise the dogs. Either agility, conditioning, or walks/hikes. I feed the dogs after, each in their own space in the main room. All 3 dogs generally sleep/relax the rest of the day, great “off” switches. They wake up when the sun tells them it is dinner time, I feed them and give them a bully stick while we eat dinner. Evenings are variable activity, but the dogs go with the flow. Joe and Zing put themselves to bed, Hoot will hang with me until I go to bed. If we leave the house, all dogs have their own space and access to their kennel (which they love).
I do for fun nose work with all 3 dogs maybe once a week. Zing love, love, loves it, quick to focus and work.
Big rules of the house. Everybody works for their food, leave each other alone while eating, wait at the door to be released outside, if you need alone time take it, and no bugging us when we are at our desks. If there is a rare problem, redirection is generally the way I handle it.
Zing had some bad experiences when she was 11 months to 2 years old. Our (now gone) 16 year old female decided she hated Zing and would rush her. Gates went up in the house to keep that from happening. Also, Zing’s herding instructor introduce herding exercises that involved flooding as a methodology, that was too much for Zing and I didn’t stop it soon enough. Zing has had several very poor encounters with Great Pyrenees/Maremma guard dogs. Intimidation, but not fights. Zing had some anxiety after this (don’t blame her) and she is now on pro-biotics and magnesium which have made an huge and positive impact on her anxiety.
Zing on leash walks. She is generally good, but can worry about other dogs. If a dog is off leash she is quick to tell me and we will go the other way when possible. Hoot use to be her anchor dog on walks, but has gained confidence and is more comfortable on walks. She does have about a 10′ bubble on walks. If a dog gets into that space she will vocalize. I try to protect that bubble. She can walk through an agility environment, maybe 2′ bubble, never any reaction or vocalization.
Hopefully this info helps and isn’t too much, but it all feels relevant.
Tracy
I took a step back and changed my cue for Zing’s threadle wrap. She was clearly telling me she was confused. I strongly suspect (why can’t dog’s talk?) that she just thought it was “come in between me and the jump and take the jump however works”. I changed my physical cue–hand down at my side and move my hand in a little circle. I am trying to do it very early.
Here are all the skills. She is a bit inefficient with the threadle wrap but I know that it will get better as she gets more confident.
Mary
Take the easy one first. #2, yep, meant really any directional that is meant for a jump in the end (right/left/backside/front). And yes, just the concept of a bar, either the bar on the ground, 4″, or jump bump, just something helps it look like the final jump appearance. I decided with Joe to keep my training very clean and always present it that way or it gets another word. Ie, around a cone vs around a wing.
#3, thanks! I probably need to go back and clear up her training. I do want her to be kind to her body, but not override what I am asking LOL.
#1. Interesting! It looks like you use the marker word before or in replacement for the “yes”. Is that right? Do you load your marker word in the beginning like you do with “yes” or a clicker? I want to read more about this, need to find something that talks about this.
Super weird, my question went away 🙁
Here they are again…
Going back to week 3 skills.
1. What is the theory behind the verbal marker on how the reward will be delivered? Or you could point me to some resources is great too.
2. I suspect that one of the things that added to Zing’s learning confusion is using a wing vs the whole jump. She is very pattern oriented. I suspect she sees the wing differently than the jump. What do you think? I need to decide this for Joe as well.
3. Why did my handling tell her to slice?
Tracy
Well, I am biting the bullet. I figure now that Zing is over 2 I actually need to run a full course without stopping to reward. We did the jumpers course. Walk is filmed and then the run. I have to say that I was dying out there. It was hot, humid for Colorado and the air is really smokey! Felt like I had just smoked a pack before the run 🙁
Question for you, 13-14-15. That is super tight, not sure how I could get that. Hoot could do it but she has years of experience and wasn’t trained the way that Zing was. Zing uses her whole stride almost always LOL.
Here is a quote that just might apply to dog agility.
“You need to do less sooner, you’re always doing too much, late” –Ray Hunt
Tracy
I have been out of town either competing or judging. One more weekend of judging and then I gain a bit more freedom.
We went up to the PNW Regional. I put Zing on a two dog team, not to win (or even compete) of course, but because it bought me 5 chances to practice stuff. Wow, there was some really great stuff in the runs. And some really great stuff before the runs :).
One thing that I noticed with Zing. She can always do her warm up tricks, anywhere, anytime and under any level of over-stimulation. This is new for me in a dog. Usually, over-stimulation = no tricks for me. So now my challenge is to get the proper level of stimulation and learn what that looks like before the run. The only reason I am saying that she was over-stimulated was 2 things would happen in the run 1) she could not hear as well LOL 2) weave entries became hard. All other skills seemed to be present (which is awesome).
Watched the video for the instant focus game. We will work this. Is there anything that I need to do differently in that game given the new things I have learned about Zing?
OK, got it. The IMG tag looks for a link as well.
But, you answered my question. You have both a threadle cue and a bypass cue. This image is really a threadle for you?
My threadle cue only applies to jumps, so I will need another for tunnels and weaves.
