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– volume dial! What tricks get him moving a lot – can be spins, barks, hopping up for a nose touch, high five, leg weaves, etc… first we get them with food, then without food (remote reinforcement).
Ok. He does spins and nose touches. I am working on leg weaves which he loves. And truly never thought about them in the run throughs.
– leash off, engagement on. When he is concerned, he wants to move away as soon as the leash is off. So pumping up the value of the leash off, engagement on game will really help: this can start with taking the leash off and running a few steps, then giving him a cookie or two or three 🙂 That way, the leash coming off becomes a cue that great things are going to happen and he automatically engages in that moment.
okay will do!
Back to the stress… it is hard to know exactly *why* he is stressing about it, because the triggers are not always the same. This time, there was no one back there. Yes, people were at the front of the ring but also – there was food in the ring with him and he was still concerned. Is it because the tunnels were dark? Did something weird happen back there, at some point in the past? Is it the weird visual od all the other stuff back there? Hard to know. But we need to help him out 🙂
Again this is the same location he has trained at for the last 3 years on a weekly basis. So he has seen all the stuff in the back. Same tunnels that were used in the run through are used in class.
When this issue began is when he went into a tunnel at a trial in Cato and he just stopped when he came out. Something happen inside the tunnel. I assume he slide in the tunnel. After this occurred his confidence was shot totally. It took about 3 weeks to gain it back in class. I say he was normal in class about 6 weeks later.
In order to get his confidence back running I rented at Premier in Lancaster NY and took him and Montana then. Since no one was around he ran his speedy self. (Note before Cato he ran there in competition with no issue.)
I also started doing drop ins at PFTF with Deb. Again at first no way. Then his confidence came back and runs in class fine. I did a seminar there and he at first did not want to run. There was a dog walk included in the seminar. I had him run over it and after that for the rest of the seminar he was awesome. Another seminar there he did a total shutdown that is when I signed up with you. (Note: again before Cato he ran there in UKI competition.)The class I attend on 2 Sundays a month I took him there to get his confidence back. (This is the place I had people come out on the floor 2/23). He started the same way and then confidence came and was fine. The only time I noticed a difference is if there were different people in class his confidence dropped. One time Joel had a seminar in the building and he started in total shutdown mode but ended up on the second run, etc with confidence and speed.
I also took him to 2 other locations as drop ins to help build his confidence. Same scenario. The one location also has UKI trials. This is where I captured him in late October doing the pattern games outside the ring but total shutdown inside the ring.
During this time I thought it was just getting his self-confidence back, but guess it is more. Just hope we can get him over whatever the issue is. After the run through my thoughts was no trialing at all. Going to work on games and get them going. but with your comments maybe once I feel he is happy during the games in different location and a class, I will bring them to the trial and do NFC and do the games per your comment.
A few ideas for you –
– did we ever talk about getting a thorough physical work up for him? I scrolled back through your initial thread and couldn’t find anything. Getting a full physical check up (soft tissue check, blood work ((thyroid, tick stuff, etc)), joints check) is definitely on tap – his stress might be based in pain or illness. That is pretty common in sport dogs: we only see symptoms when they are under the ‘pressure’ of being in the ring. There are also some good probiotics you can consider to help balance gut health and reduce anxiety. One of my dogs is on Purina Calming Care and he is a much happier dog in life and sport!Since Spring has kind of arrived in the Rochester area, I am scheduling a massage for him and my other 2 dogs. Once I get the massage appt. nailed, I am going to get to the vet that does Chiro. Last time he saw both of them was in late October. (I also do massage on my dogs myself, but like Harmony to go over them since she is the expert and have to admit after losing Montana in January really turned everything upside down.)
I can also have my vet do blood work on him also.– for now, take out the pressure of trying to run courses in that building in a trial setting, even when you can have food. Get him going with tricks in the ring and having fun in the back of the ring (no obstacles needed for that) and then work him up to going to the back of the ring… but with remote reinforcement (food left in the front of the ring). When he is happily partying with tricks with you in the back of the ring, then add a jump or tunnel! Then we can gradually build up to the agility.
ok
Also yesterday since the weather broke here sunny and 35, I took Knight for a walk around the neighborhood and once he got out of the house and walking he was jumping and barking like a little puppy and through the walk which was about 15 minutes. Never saw that much happiness and joy in a long while. I then had to go to Lowes so I took him along. He was happy. No stressing. As a matter of fact there were 2 employees standing and chatting in a crowded area and I had Knight do a come front and come to heal and did couple spins. Could see in his eyes he was a really happy boy no fear so I know there is light at the end of tunnel. (Yes I do not give up!)
Good morning!
Well learned more about this little guy this past weekend.
The first video is from Speedstakes on Friday night. I wanted him to go throw the first tunnel and the second but he went to the jump and wanted to exit. Because of what we discovered this past Wednesday, I just decided to exit and work with him in the runs throughs on Sunday.
The next series of videos is the Speedway run throughs. The courses were awesome.
For Knight for the day I had him with him best part of the day instead of his crate in the other building. Thought maybe getting him acclimating to the noise, etc would help him. Again he did have rest time in his crate to relax. He played outside of the ring with no issue. He went up to people and dogs very politely. Guess what I am saying not afraid. I did do pattern games at the entrance.
Note People were around the entrance. I did a quick pattern game. When we went into the ring, I immediately threw food once I open the gate to get him through the threshold to get him stimulated. At first I kept the leash own and doing pattern games in the front. Then took the lead off. Positive he stayed with me. Did not want to run to the exit through all the runs even when he stopped in the course. Pattern: Going to the back tunnels. Looking at the videos in the evening I noticed he just stopped in front of the tunnels going to the back and no one was there. As a matter of fact no one was in the ring the whole time.Thought: I got the course for this week and we do have a tunnel in the back. Thinking of having people around the tunnel and just take him in the back and see if he will go into the tunnel. Also at the start line which is a jump work him with people around. Your thoughts.
I have a UKI trial – Speedstakes (2 runs) only Friday night so I can do the cookie chase to see if that gets him moving outside the ring. Since we know the issue do you think for these 2 runs just go into the ring and do a couple spins for me, etc inside the ring and maybe do a couple figure 8 over a jump and out the ring we go. Your thoughts.
On Sunday will be Speedway RUN THROUGHS. Since I can take treats in, planning on throwing food as we go through the gate and see if that helps. Once in, my plan is to do pattern games and tricks and see if he goes through tunnels and/or hoops, etc. My main objective doing these 4 runs Knight being happy. Any ideas greatly appreciated.
And just want to say THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HELP THESE LAST FEW MONTHS. SO APPRECIATED.
Class run today. I sent the map to your email address so that you can see the actual run since I had everyone on the floor. Guess I better get a stand for my phone!!!!!!
Anyhow, the first obstacle was the tunnel. I had someone on the left side of the tunnel as well as on the right side. My instructor the big dude that he is was standing in the middle. The fourth person was at the end of the building by the weave poles.
Knight at first did not want to go into the tunnel at all. I started doing the pattern game. Then I tried to get him into the tunnel. He went in very reluctantly. He was slow just like the speedstakes run from last week. When he came out, I threw some food in front of him. Tried it again and had to give him a gentle nudge into the tunnel. Tried it for the third time picked up speed and went in at his normal speed came out happy. Fourth time he just went in happy and we ran the course. My friend at the end of the weaves played judge in the back area and he did not mind her at all. When Knight came back to the tunnel the second time after the teeter, he ignored everyone and was full speed ahead.
The second run my instructor was in the middle of tunnel again and a friend on one side. Another friend had was at the exit gate with her dog who likes to bark. Knight just ran with no issues. And yes my friend was in the back playing judge again and he did not care. At the end of course you will see he had to go into the tunnel for the third time. My instructor was on his knees bending toward the entrance of the tunnel and Knight just went right in and came out happy and barking.
Yes I am very happy. Saw the issue in class and was able to resolve it. Know we still have a ways to go but there is light at the other end of the tunnel!!! 🙂
It is great that you were able to re-create a trial environment! When he froze up – was the tunnel exit facing the exit of the course, or facing the back wall of the ring?
Exit was facing the front of the building.
>First half of the run he started and stalled. Took him back to where the weaves were located and he did the weaves not at his normal speed but he did them. I then had him do the weaves from the front to back and he did them at his normal fast speed. >
Was he weaving towards the crowd or people, or away? I am glad he acclimated and was able to get back to full speed 🙂
First time he was going towards the people. Second time toward the back. Did not see people.
Forgot to mention that the second time out I started doing a figure 8 on one jump. He was happy doing it but when I tried to move on he stalled.Running back to front is fine but I am not sure it tackles his question about moving away from the food outside the ring. Does the trial have a food reward box option? If not, can you convince them to add it for future trials? It is very easy to add, I can help with that 🙂 A food reward option means you are basically taking his remote reinforcement game into the trial ring: he does a thing or two moving away from the food and towards the pressure of people in the ring… then you mark and run back to get a cookie. You can do that a few times in a run.
No it does not have a food reward box option. Not sure with UKI rules if I run a NFC run or mulligan if I can just go to outside the gate give him a treat and then go back in.
In training, you can start doing that in very short bursts (but I think he needs a lot of reinforcement in the ring as well for moving past the pressure of people.
Okay will give that I try. Got the course map for Wednesday and will set up a strategy.
>Sunday – Speedway day. I have him signed up for 4 runs. Don’t know what the rounds will consist of just know it is hoops, barrels, and tunnels but my main objective is fun and confidence. There will be other dogs and people he has not yet met.>
Bearing in mind that his favorite obstacles are contacts 🙂 you can break these courses down to start at a tunnel. And CPE rules might not allow for as much FEO or food use, so you can see how he feels about the environment and then decide if you want to run all the runs or not.
Forgot to say that this is a RUN THROUGH so food will be allowed in the ring. The RUN THROUGHS is to give us insight of what Speedway is since it has not been run in this area.
Good Evening!
Took Knight to a class today. There were 3 runs in the class
The building is a small. Each run was 15 or so obstacles. The runs consisted of tunnel, weaves, and jumps. He has been at the location at many times.
First run:
Everyone in class was out on the course and had music playing. The run started in the back and through the tunnel and when he came out which was the front of the course he just stopped. Tried to get him moving throwing food over the jump which he took and just stopped. Took when to the back of the building where the weaves where and he did the weaves and a jump and stalled.Second run:
First half of the run he started and stalled. Took him back to where the weaves were located and he did the weaves not at his normal speed but he did them. I then had him do the weaves from the front to back and he did them at his normal fast speed. Next I had him go from the back to front going over jumps and he flew.Third run
He came at and flew through the course. He did jumps at the front of the building with no issue.Also between the second third run he was barking in his crate. This usually tells me he is confident and ready to go.
Two other things:
First thing
On Saturday I did take him to Home Depot for a walk. This has been over a month that I took him and he was confident there with me. When he came to the front of the building which is where the pressure is for him, he did come fronts sit to the left side, spins, etc. I know it is not 100% comfortable for he knows where the exit doors are and if we pass them on our walk in the building, he starts heading towards them. Also side note, I let him go ahead of me when we enter or exit and he know where to go to get the doors to open.Second thing
I believe Knight is mourning Montana. There are times in the morning where I would throw toys or tug with both of them. Now Knight does not want to do any of the above. Montana and Knight were in the same class and went to trials together so I am keeping my eye on him. There were buddies even though they were 5 years apart. The other 2 in the house are 12 and 12 1/2. He wants to play with them and kind gets ignored. Also in classes or trials if he sees his friends, he does love to play with them.Third thing
More one on one time. Looking back with 2 other dogs I had confidence issues with I did more one on one time with them. Meaning taking them for walks by themselves in the housing plan where barking dogs are, walk the canal where there is heavy traffic and dogs. Figure I will do pattern games, some basic obedience, play, etc with him. Hope having this pressure applied and just being with me will grow his confidence just hope I am not too late to turn this around. Now I usually walk my dogs in the park area or on the canal together not going to stop this but add the one on one time.Class and trials this week all at the location I train weekly at.
Wednesday – My normal class and will get my friends on the course.Friday night – I have 2 speedstakes runs and planning on running him back to front of the building. Not in my plan to do mulligans since he will have a busy Sunday. Anything else I should think about.
Sunday – Speedway day. I have him signed up for 4 runs. Don’t know what the rounds will consist of just know it is hoops, barrels, and tunnels but my main objective is fun and confidence. There will be other dogs and people he has not yet met.
Hopefully I am not throwing too much at him.
Now off to brush and groom 3 critters.
I am glad he was able to do the pattern game! What type of food were you using? Him showing a bit of concern outside the ring is something to note – we can go to more volume dial games, or higher value food, or both.
I started with cheese and when I saw the concern I changed to chicken and it solved the problem.
And in classes, he needs to see people right there with pressure and dogs right outside the ring. I know it is hard to get people to do that LOL!!! At first you can have food with you, but then you can fade out the food and get him running with all the pressure. That can mean starting in the middle of the ring in those scenarios too!
On Sunday I will be going to a drop in class in a small building. He goes there every other week or so. This is the place I was going to take him and it was cancelled due to snow. Anyhow, there are 3 runs in this class. No ring gating and the runs are about 15 obstacles. Question: As far as pressure. Should I start low and work up. Meaning first run have couple people in the ring. Second run add people behind him and third run have dogs out of the crates?
What was different about these runs: Some places allow food in mulligan runs, did you have food with you? Or were there fewer people? Or were you more relaxed? We can look for a trend there too.
No food. I believe the difference was someone was standing in the corner of the building after the jump after the dog walk. (note person had a bright yellow hoddy on) Also the dog walk was on a slight angle. The only thing though he was not his normal speed going up the dog walk. So maybe between going the direction front to back of the building and then when he reached the top of the dog walk he saw the person standing in the corner. I was happy though on the second run he did do the full dog walk and that person was still in the corner.
Attend the UKI trial this weekend. The location is the same place that I train at every week. The judge was my instructor. This was a very small trial due to the weather. There were only 10 to 12 people. I managed to get a video of his first run which was speedstakes. I did the pattern games on the outside of the ring and he was a little concern by the look on his face, but he loved doing the pattern game with me. As you will see he didn’t want to go into the tunnel. Yes there were a few people at the entrance so I kind of believe this was the problem. Also at the end of the run is where the subscribe and a few other people were. Dog wise maybe 2 dogs outside the ring and no barking from these dogs. Once he came out of the tunnel slowly you will see I put his leash on him and he ran with me to the jump before the tunnel and he did his thing. The second speedstakes run was the same.
The other runs there were no one I could get to video since the trial was so small so I sent you the courses via email.
6BNJumping
I started at the weaves obstacle 6 and he flew through them and he did 7 and 8 at his normal speed when he went to 9, he just stopped in his tracks and did not want to move. I felt like he was saying I am just not going so I just asked him to take that jump. Once he did, I put the leash and went to obstacle 15 and he took it with no issue and ran into the tunnel his normal speed. He came to me and put his leash and out we ran.Sunday
1BNAgility
I started him at the dog walk. I put him in a sit to take his leash and left him go. He was not his normal speed going down the dog walk. He took the next jump and decided he was not going to go again. I just picked him up and put in front of the weaves and he went his normal speed through the weaves and took the jump and then the tunnel on the left side. Happy boy when he finished.I did do a mulligan with him on this run started at the dog walk again and he just flew. He did the whole course at his regular speed.
3BNAgility
Started at the dog walk again. This time he started but slow. He turned around on the dog walk and came down and went through the tunnel and came out running and went over the AFrame over a few jumps and into the weaves, teeter and finished into the tunnel.I did do a mulligan on this run also. He did do the dog walk all the way this time not his normal speed, He was concerned, but when completed it he turned around and went back at his normal speed and finished up the run again full speed and happy.
This run there was a person at the back of the building where the dog walk was so I kind of believe this was his issue or since he was not his normal happy self the dog walk at the angle was a concern. I was beside him the whole way on the dog walk.
5BNJumpers
Just started him at the weaves and he did them but not his normal speed when completed he ran to the tunnel and came out running. I called him over a jump and sent him to the other tunnel to complete the run.Note: I did do patterns games, sits, downs, spins, etc outside of the ring and he was fine. I did do spins before a couple runs especially on Saturday but he was not barking and being his happy self. At the end of the runs and mulligans, I put the leash on and we ran out of the ring and he got his goodies. He was a very happy boy.
Here is a video of Knight and I in class today. We had the music on and it did not bother him. It was a great run till the end. A learning experience.
Also took him to Home Depot after class and walked him around. The sounds in the lumber aisle he was concerned but still did the pattern games.
That is a lot of runs, especially at this time of year when the pups might not be outside running around as much as normal. So feel free to scratch runs if the course is weird or if he is at all tired, or even if he does great and you want to end early on a high note.
That is my plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got to protect Knight at all costs!!!
Well Sunday did not go! The class was cancelled due to snow.
This Saturday I have Knight scheduled for Speedstakes 1 and 2 and Jumpers on Saturday. Then on Sunday I have him scheduled for Agility 1 and Agility 2 and Jumpers. I can also do mulligans after each of these runs if I want to. Figure in Speedstakes I will start him at a tunnel. Jumpers at the weaves or tunnel. Sunday start at dog walk, Aframe, teeter, weave poles. Also thinking about starting at a jumper before the contact. Your thoughts.
You might have done this, but you can mix in a run or two in class where the rewards are outside the ring (then run to them at the end). The other runs can have rewards in the ring with you, but mixing in rewards outside the ring can keep those remote reinforcement skills sharp!
Class is Wednesday. Will do.
Went to class today and he was the little dynamo. It was a master class and he nailed. His partner well…… It was only 3 of us in class and I have to admit I forget about the music. I PROMISE ON SUNDAY I WILL have the instructor turn up the music and the other students go crazy.
I did take him to Home Depot today and he was fine. He did the pattern game and sits and downs for me at the front of the store. I am planning on taking him back after class on Sunday also. Hopefully it will be more crowded.
Well Sunday drop in class was cancelled but good news have a class this Sunday so I will ask the people there to assist.
Today I took Knight to Lowes and walked him around the building. When he got to the front, he got concerned so I started doing the pattern game. Still was a little concern but was going after the goodies.
This made me feel good.Tomorrow is our regular class and he is solid there. He does his tricks outside the ring and will work with him before he runs by doing spins, etc. After class I will be stopping at Home Depot with Knight and see how he reacts.
I took Knight to Home Depot today along with a high value treats “CHICKEN”. He went into the store with no issue. As a matter of fact, he was ahead of me and waited for the doors to open and went right in. We went up and down the aisles in some closed in areas since I was looking for couple of things. He was concern (see him looking at the weird stuff and of course the weird noise) but he stood beside me and sat and did a down and yes got treats. Couple people offer to help and gave him chicken which he took like a typical sheltie. Up front of the store where we had issues, he was concern, but this time he offered sits and downs. Also he was more inquisitive about the sounds instead of being afraid and stressed out. While we were in the front of the store, he heard someone moving the pvc pipes and he went around the corner and watched the person. He took a treat and then turned back to watch some more. After I checked out, he left the building the same way he entered. No fear. Found the center of the automatic doors and waited for them to open. Feel we made huge progress.
Next Tractor Supply and Lowes.Jmp to tunnel was a happy thing – even if it was up close to the gate and the people & dogs.
But the 2 jumps through that box to the teeter was icky? It was kind of a weird start, not a lot of flow.When he did the jump to tunnel that was close to the gate was when he was finishing his run. He was focused and the people, etc did not bother him.
That is good to know for planning – the main goal is to get him moving as soon as possible, towards obstacles he likes (tunnel, contacts). At trials for now, skip any jump-jump-jump openings that turn him to the crowd… or maybe anything that doesn’t immediately lead to a favorite obstacle. Let’s build up his love for being in the competition ring before tackling the icky starts 🙂
WILL DO. THANK YOU
