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>> Whoa, your wings look great!!!! Totally worth showing them off!!!
Thank you! 🙂 I’m happy with them!>> use reinforcement markers such as ‘get it’ (for a thrown reward) or ‘bite’ (for the reward in your hand) without a ‘yes’ or praise before it,
After last week’s live chat, I was really trying to keep this in mind, but it’s so hard of a transition for me when I spend Sundays teaching Puppy Kindergarten, Good Dog 101, and Jump Start Puppy and we’re using “Yes!” (or a click) to mark behaviors. Eventually, I got a bit more regular with it, but definitely still need a lot of work!>> do whatever it takes (without luring :)) to set her up for success
I definitely do want to set her up for success! I tried a bit of handler motion this morning, but I didn’t record it, so no video to share. I was trying to be clear with left/right handler motion, but she was still going straight. Any specific tips for what handler motion might look like for this? Do I try starting her way back from the jump/wing so that I can be far enough ahead of her that I can turn while she can still see me?>> So we can focus on teaching her how to NOT look at you and drive forward
Oh, so difficult! I have worked so hard for her to focus more on me, less on cars/squirrels/scooters/skateboards/motorcycles/trucks/manhole covers (weird I know)/other things that she has been reactive towards or wants to chase so that she can be a calmer/more balanced dog. At this point she stares at me any time I’m at home and I can’t shake her from looking at me. So hard to get her to focus on something else these days! Should I just wait her out until she’s looking at a jump or some other obstacle?Some continuation of Week 2 games, some Week 3 games. I got all of my jump wings finished up this week, so I put them to good use this weekend! (And of course I had to show them off, too!)
Game 1: A couple of different sessions of the left/right/go balance rep game. This time the “Go’s” seemed more reliable than the “Lefts” and “Rights”.
Game 2: Mini-Pinny. I would have expected this one to have gone better since it was a MaxPup game, but I guess we haven’t practiced it enough to have it solidified in there.
Game 3: Not awful, but definitely a lot of running into the wings on this one. Perhaps my cues were late?
Game 4: Back. Again not so good here. She clearly thinks “Back” is something different from “Go” but isn’t quite getting the idea of what that something should look like.
>> how does she feel about you holding her collar?
She’s ok with this…usually, unless she really wants to run or chase something. I’ll have to try mixing more of that in.>> For driving forward – have the reward (toy) ready to throw ideally in the opposite hand from whichever side she is on. And, you can throw sooner
OK! I tried to be earlier with it in the set of videos that I’m about to post.>> the lure of the reward out ahead gets the behavior but then there is confusion from her when it is not there.
Ah! That makes sense. Thrown reward >> lure.>> If my memory is correct, she likes balls, right?
LOVES LOVES LOVES! balls! I’d almost be concerned that she would go into ball/herding mode and forget that we’re doing agility! I went for the sheepskin tug this week instead.I’m late, but here are a few of the Week 2 games. The first few it was starting to get dark, and I didn’t realize how glow-y Ria’s eyes were until I watched the video this evening! 😂
Game 1:
Game 2. This one was difficult.
Game 3. I finally got (most) of my fittings and pipe to make jump wings! I only had the fittings to make half wings, but at least they were good enough to try multiple jumps outside in grass! I absolutely need to work on forward commitment. There were a lot of broken stays, knocked bars, and LOTS of reorienting back to me after that first jump, not taking the second jump. Also, I hadn’t realized it until looking at this video that this session was WAAYYY too long.
>> the floor is too slippery for her to be able to dig in to properly make these turns and hit criteria
>> The bar knocking is because of the footing
>> She just cannot get good enough hind end grip to lift off properly
>> She is 1000% trying to do it correctly but the footing is creating issues for her
>> I know I am obsessing with the footing… but even on this game, she was compensating to be able to make the turn. She is holding herself tight to avoid slipping but that doesn’t allow her to move freely in and out of the turn – and when she tries to move freely, she slips or spays
OK, ok, ok!!! 🤣 I get it! I did feel bad when I was practicing with her on these floors and she was slipping everywhere. I’m trying to figure out good practice spaces. I do have a small bit of yard so maybe that will help.>> You two are really becoming a smooth working team 🙂
Yay! Thanks!OK, here are the games this week!
(Also, I realize that the floor here was super slippery…I tried to convince Sandy to replace it with turf, but was unsuccessful! It was snowing a bit outside and right now I only have one jump at my house, so my options were limited. I need to build more jumps so that I can work at home!)
Game 1:
Seems more or less OKGame 2:
After doing some of the balance exercises, Ria didn’t want to wrap. Taking a step back and having her wrap a chair seemed to help. It also seems like the closer that she jumps to the wing, the more likely she is to knock a bar. I had dropped these down to 8 inches, which she shouldn’t be knocking, but yet she was. Any suggestions?Game 3:
This one seemed OK to me, and she did pretty well even moving the wing closer to the jump.Hi Tracy,
Here are my verbals, though I could use some suggestions!
• Extension On A Line: Go!
• Lead Change Away On A Line: Get out! (Could use some work)
• Wrap Verbals: Left: Check check check; Right: Dig, dig, dig
• Loose Turns of Approximately 90 degrees: Left, Right
• Backside Slice Verbal: I’ve used Back back back meaning take the back side of the jump, but I haven’t usually used it for a slice. Perhaps it still works here?
• Backside Wrap Verbal: Hmm…I don’t have a verbal for this…and I can’t use yours of dig dig dig. Any suggestions?
• Jump Threadle Slice Verbal: This sounds familiar from MaxPup, though admittedly I haven’t worked much on this. Close works for me, but need to work on it.
• Jump Threadle Wrap: No verbal for this. Your “In in” could work for this but I kind of want something complimentary to the backside wrap verbal.Trying to get at least a bit caught up! A work trip where I missed two Saturdays in a row made things a bit difficult, but here are a few videos:
Lap and Tandem turns: I know that there were a few more advanced sequences involving lap and tandem turns, but it seemed challenging enough that we just stuck to the basics. (Also, I was finally able to schedule some time in grass!)
Zig Zag Grid: This took a minute to get the spacing right for her to bounce, but I think that I got it.
Serps ‘N Stuff: I’m almost embarrased to show this one. The initial trials were pretty rough, but I think that we more or less got it by the end of the session. In the middle of practice, she stopped taking the initial jump and kept going around it. I’m not sure what was going on with that.
> You can try this standing up a bit, but also you can reward approximations of the behavior (any interaction with the teeter) to get things rolling.
I wasn’t quite sure what my expectations should be. When she offered putting her front paws on the teeter, I was debating, “Do I reward this as if I were shaping the behavior or do I wait to see if she will offer the desired back paw targeting?” I guess that I picked the wrong one! Eventually, like you noticed, I lowered my criteria and tried to reward interaction with the teeter. I’ll try to stick closer to the end and hopefully she keeps at least two paws on.> I noticed that she bit you at 1:56 and 3:54. This is not uncommon with herding breeds in agility! It hurts though, and we don’t want her to bite you if things are not moving fast enough. So you can add in cookies for moving with you back to the setup, as that seems to be when she is more likely to use her teeth
Didn’t realize that these had made the cut! 🤣 She definitely bit slightly at 1:56. At 3:54, not sure if she bit or if she very much surprised me by sneaking up behind me and targeting the back of my hand. In either case, neither one felt good! I remember laughing early on in possibly the first MaxPup when you mentioned that one of your dogs offered biting as a behavior. I understand that now! If I run around, she also likes to chase and sometimes bite me. Not ideal for sure. I should work on that.> She might think the release is your reconnection after you lead out so be careful not to pair them
Good call! I didn’t even think of that. Perhaps that’s why she released a little early. Definitely don’t want that association!> you were a little late turning for the cross, then you reached for the toy and threw, plus the mats are too slippery for a fast dog jumping… so she hit the bar and the wing. So yes, any practice you can find on grass/dirt/turf or even the blue mats that some place have will help her sort out her jumping.
Blue mats? I’m not sure what those are. Outdoors, Tricia’s place is probably closest, but that’s still a 45 minute-ish drive from me. Not sure where else I could go to practice, especially since I don’t really have any wings myself. (I have the plans, but no where to really take them at the moment.)I’m too tired to comment anymore at the moment. Just a heads up, I have a work trip from Sunday morning through Saturday evening. I might fall even more behind than I already am…
A little of Week 4 and a little of Week 5!
Bang Game
I guess that I have played a lot of calming games with Ria so that when I am on the floor and facing her she takes it as a cue to lay down and settle a bit. This made the Bang Game a little challenging since she didn’t really want to target anything. Eventually she figured out that I wanted her to interact with the teeter, but she wasn’t really sure how specifically. Eventually she got the hang of it.
Serpentines
These could use some more work. The directions said to have the toy sitting off to the side where the second jump would be. Ria just ran straight for the toy instead of going through the jump. I ended up just throwing the toy instead. Acceptable?
Beginning Discriminations
Ria has a pretty good “Kennel up!” cue, though that behavior doesn’t seem to be nearly as rewarding as the tunnel. There was one “kennel up” cue that she responded to and I didn’t reward…not sure if I just didn’t get a treat in hand in time or if I was daydreaming…Overall, not bad, but could be better.
Lead Outs
Whoops! Did realize that I was out of frame for much of this video. Not sure how useful this is….The jumps were 18 feet apart, and I realize that I forgot to move the third jump to get practice on the other side. On one run, she took at a bar on #2 and a wing on #3. Too fast? Too slippery? I really need to get more yard practice in!
>> So on all of these, you can lead out past jump 1 by a step or two then release
OK, makes sense. Figuring out where I should be is still rather tricky for me.>> I think she is going to graduate into the need for better footing, especially as you add jump height to it.
Yes, agreed…It’s just hard at the moment finding a place that will work well. The 95°+ with high humidity days that we’ve been having here have made me not want to practice outside (I definitely had heat exhaustion on Saturday and could have easily slipped into heat stroke if I hadn’t taken an ice bath), and my indoor options are rather limited.>> At 2:15 you did cut across and keep moving (yay!!! that was the correct line!!)
I finally went back to my directions and noticed that I should have been doing a rear cross the whole time…so yay for re-reading! 🤣>> One other thought – you might find it easier to start from the tunnel so you can get ahead on all of these sooner.
There’s that distance thing again. I need to work on that!>> without adding your motion yet, say the sit verbal without any movement, be completely still – then give the hand cue about a second after it.
I did try this earlier today. As soon as I said “sit” she went from a stand to a down with no intermediate sit and before I could get a hand signal in there. This response time is pretty typical when she’s not distracted. Provided that she responds, if I say “down” she goes into a down 98% of the time. If I say “sit” she goes into a down maybe 65% of the time and a sit 35% of the time. I guess maybe just try some big parties when she actually sits?>> separately from the teeter, how does she do on the flat with backing up onto something like a dog bed or mat, or just backing up in general?
I’m not sure why I thought that she’d do better with a teeter than a mat or just backing up! She actively avoids backing up onto a thing. I once tried with 24 inches of target on her right and 24 inches of target on her left and she backed up at a weird diagonal to avoid stepping on the target (a few of those puzzle mat things linked together). I’ve had some success in getting her to back up straight onto a thing if I made a narrow channel and eliminated any possibility of her backing up diagonally. Admittedly, I don’t know if I’ve tried just her backing up not onto a target, but just backwards.OK! Weeks 2 and 3 games! (Thankfully Week 3 was just one game so I could get caught up!) I think that the name of the games here is that I need to work on some of my fundamentals again. Ria is still actively avoiding backing up straight onto the target, in this case the teeter. My wrap cues are “check” for wrapping left and “dig” for wrapping right, but regardless of my cue, she is wrapping left.
1. Straight Lines. Since we only had success wrapping left and had difficulty with wrapping right, I didn’t progress to any of the further levels and just stuck with the first stage.
2. Wingin’ It. Difficulty committing to the backwards sends. After not long, I moved the wings in closer, which seemed to help, but she still seemed to prefer going into middle versus wrapping the wings.
3. Counter-motion. I haven’t been super consistent with Ria getting into a sit versus a down, so this was perhaps not as reliable as it should have been. She definitely prefers the down, even though I was trying to cue a sit as suggested.
4. Teeter/Slam. Surprisingly, Ria doesn’t seem to mind the noise of the teeter, though I’m not sure how she will do with the motion of the teeter once we get to that. However, she didn’t want to backup onto the teeter. I tried to make a bit of a channel to get her to backup, but she wasn’t having any of that.
>>One thing to remember in skills training in particular, is to set a timer so that you get a 3 minute session total… then be finished for the day (or maybe try another 2 or 3 minutes several hours later, but still it keeps the total training time low)
Oh! 3 minute sessions several hours apart! So while there were a few times that I had her come back down and then right back up, there were a lot of breaks (hidden by the editing), some with 10-20 minutes between them. I thought that was sufficient enough of a break, but maybe not! I know that Ria would work until she falls over dead; maybe I’m still not the best at reading when she is mentally or physically tired. On that note, all four of these videos (Lazy Game, Back & Forth, Teeter, and Wingin’ It) were done on the same day, after all of the classes at Wholistic Hound were over for the day. (Ria is crated during the classes and will have time to play, etc. between classes.) Is that too much? Are there any signs that I should particularly be looking for that she is telling me that she’s done? These seemed lower energy and like she could go on for a bit yet, so I kind of just kept going…At least I had enough sense not to push the Week 2 homework in the same session!
>>you can try duct taping a spoon to the underside as the treat holder
So at 4:43, I tried this…the angle at which the spoon was attached, and Ria’s propensity to just knock the treats on the floor instead of being able to actually eat them kind of made this difficult. I’ll figure something out!
>>and a whole lot of food for her for the same day of training
I don’t mind the food intake, though, because Ria has to earn or work for all of her food in some way throughout the day, has no set feeding schedule, and 98% of the time doesn’t eat out of a bowl. What I was feeding was a complete and balanced food, so she just got more food during training than other times of the day. If she wasn’t getting the food here, she’d get it through other games, puzzle feeders, Kongs, etc. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t too long, though.
>>She had some questions on the starts of some of the reps, mainly because she was facing you
OK, that’s fair. Realistically, I wouldn’t want her to start facing me in an event; I guess that I was focused on what I was supposed to be doing and less focused on how she was lining up. I think that towards the end I had noticed that she was facing me and maybe shouldn’t be…
>>Your FCs back to the tunnel after the wings looked good – you were really emphasizing connection and that set the lines really well.
Phew! That’s good to hear! In the moment I was thinking, “Wait, am I doing a front cross or is what I’m doing a post turn, or is it something else altogether?” I just wasn’t sure! 😂
Here are a few more of the Week 1 videos. I haven’t had a chance to try week 2 yet, but I’m working on it!
Teeter: Ria was a bit nervous about this at first, especially considering that the teeter wobbled a bit toward the side on her first attempt at it. Later on, I couldn’t keep her off of it! My treat target could definitely use some work, and I didn’t find a good solution on how to hold the treat; I just fed from my hand.
Wingin’ It: As is typical for me, I kind of forgot the sequences that I was supposed to be doing, and may have ended up doing something a little different. I think that this went ok.
Now I’ll have to get on my Week 2 homework!
>> Fast forward makes it harder to hear the verbals and clicks – real time videos are better to really see what she is doing
Got it! I won’t do that again. Was I supposed to be clicking during these activities? I wasn’t…I can definitely spread them further apart next time.
Good call on waiting to throw the treat! I’ll try that next time.
