[Shasta]

Thanks for the nfc feedback – so helpful

We were going to go to another trial this weekend but West has been filling in for my girlie with a sore ankle so I decided trial would be too much for him

Anyway – it was nice outside so we tried sequence 1 –
My dw was in the way but I was too lazy to move it which forced a slice on 8 which felt very far away – i didn’t find anyway to get there that felt comfortable but maybe I’ll rotate it next time so we’re not jumping to the dw

I edited and gave some nice long toy rewards but West said Yay! No start lines!!

West week 2 sequence 1

[Shasta]

Hi this really helped!!!

“– how did he do outside the ring? Was he able to eat?”

“ Ideally, you are able to do pattern games outside the ring, then do some tricks for treats or tugging right before you go in, then also on the way to the line. Tricks-for-tugging is the key to that, not just tugging, because responding to the cues for tricks is what will help optimize the arousal.”

– he is able to eat, with reasonable distance (15-20 ft from gate) alternating between stiff staring at running dogs and engaged with me – mostly engaged – occasionally staring
– he did play pattern games where he would look around and offer re-engaging with me and when he got stuck staring I was able to interrupt and he re-engaged
– to actually enter the ring we had to decrease our distance and I had him locked on the tug (when he is really over threshold (often at flyball mat time) he will not tug – so this is still good)
– he did “tricks” (we need to work on tricks, he did hand touches, sits, downs, spins) for food outside the ring
– his toy “out” was not great which made tricks for tug challenging
– west likes fuzzy toys but I have been moving toward toys that are less self rewarding to take off to a corner to dissect and in training he is ok with my choice of toys but in this environment I wanted his favorite toy to compete with distractions- much harder to “out”
– and in general, tugging in public has been a work in progress always and if I add too many rules and contingencies he says “no thanks”
– and sometimes he felt his trick should earn him a high value food treat (which he knew I had in my pocket)
– so i didn’t bring trick for tug into the ring, yet

– what type of environment is the trial this weekend? Indoors/turf, or outdoors/2 rings or something in between?
– indoor 2 ring but a very small 2 ring trial

– how many runs are you doing?
– he did 3 Friday and 2 Saturday

The first we just tugged – and did tunnel jump a couple times in extension to see how he was feeling went -was ok (not in video clip)

Second and third – my goal was to let him run some sequences – but I struggled to keep up and to restart him – they were very similar -* I included one of these in video

Fourth – I planned to use his pivot bowl but I missed the walk thru and ended up just doing a couple obstacles – (not in video clip)

Fifth – (in video clip) was usdaa not uki and I had a last minute realization that I had to take his collar off (I know – tiny difference and we’ve practiced putting it back on, but still it’s a thing)- and that 2 of his littermates were running directly after him
I asked for a sit but did not lead out far
I expected him to come out of the straight tunnel on the side I was when he went in and planned to reward and reset but he had other plans 🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s him getting used to the environment and me getting used to him simultaneously

Overall I was very happy – he wasn’t thinking about leaving the ring for the distractions
I want to slowly start incorporating more self control and thinking maybe at a 1 ring trial

I tried to pick manageable sequences and when I felt that I was unlikely to fix the handling error with another attempt I moved on / like both rc attempts in the video clip – and when I felt we could potentially fix it, I tried again, like with the tight turn to the tunnel that he kept layering

🤷🏻‍♀️

West trials 2

[Shasta]

Yes! So helpful – will try changing it up so next time

Trying to make a plan for his next trial this weekend

So far he has gone in the ring 6 x for speedstakes

One – I had a nice 3 obstacles plan starting with a tunnel and I was slow on my cues but he did his job

Two – I asked for a sit by my side and that was too hard but he did return to tug his way out after considering going for a little party of one excursion

Two.five – no video I had a 5 obstacle sequence which I stuck to but we stalled in the beginning I think because I asked for sit

Three – here is where things went off rails – mistakenly entered him at 20 rather than 16 AND fully expected tugging only at this distracting environment but then he seemed weirdly focused so I veered from the script:
Did a tiny mini lead out (what was I thinking?) and a portion of course – was lucky second ring was walking

Four – again second ring was NOT running and he was such a good boy
He took a big off course detour but it was my bad and looked pretty fun

Five – eek second ring running and yelling about tunnels
I was not sure I was going to let go – he was definitely on his way to the other ring but he calmed and stayed with me
I rewarded where I planned in the beginning and then I think I got a little lost

Anyway – he did great but I think I asked for too much
My plan was to ask for a teensy duration with a sit without lead out to just have a moment of self control- but once that turned him off and twice I got greedy and took steps

I love the idea of bringing his pivot bowl

[Shasta]

Hi – i haven’t got all the way through the zoom chat yet but it was great therapy

My agility experience has been my Aussie who is sick – I waited to trial until she was 3 as she was my first agility dog and the beginning of her agility career was pandemic
We trialed for a little more than 1.5 years and she had just debuted in flyball in March and then retired in June

I have a border collie who is 4 I have trialed nfc a few times here and there but mostly she does class and seminars only bc reactivity

And West – who I admit – I am putting in the ring sooner than I would prefer because I want to go to some trials and at least I can walk the course and make a plan for his nfc run

Anyway – I do have some questions about our first 2 trial experiences definitely he is doing only nfc and easy sequences and avoiding anything hard etc

but for now… the sequences

I ran them with my older dog first and there was some adjustments to accommodate the space – I don’t have time to move the dw and because of tree roots and fence dimensions there tunnel was right next to dw and my girl thought it was a tough discrimination but West had “tunnel vision”

If I had used food this would have gone much better but this is often how West is when he goes to a seminar or makes a guest appearance at my girl’s class so it was good to video

I would not normally try for a stay when he’s like this but since we were training in my yard – I tried

He has a set up at my side that was trained over months and months – pivoting a bowl, then a disc prop, then lots and lots of practice doing set ups around various distractions/new environments
It often disappears with arousal and his back up to alleviate anxiety is a hand touch to sit
(He has no stand stay and we are playing around with it inside with a Cato board but it and down are both much weaker right now)

In terms of the sequence- after all the struggle with stay I felt my feet were turned and not facing the first jump and the distance from the tunnel to jump was further than on the map so I wasn’t surprised that was hard

We tried 1 sit stay for sequence 2 but too far to lead out so I tried doing a fc to jump 1 but I was too behind and all 3 attempts looked similar so i edited out the 2nd two for the sake of time

Otherwise the only edits were zooming in

[Shasta]

Hi – I was trying to remember when this class ends?

[Shasta]

lazy game was much harder than I expected

I moved the set up twice because there were spots of grass he wanted to avoid – he often gets weirded out by a stick or leaf that looks funny to him -but in this case I think it must have been a place there was previously a poop and I have never known him to be have such delicate sensibilities but 🤷🏻‍♀️

I edited out many minutes of troubleshooting and trying to make sure it wasn’t the tire …. It wasn’t but in the end i figured out a way to keep my jump wings where I wanted them and avoid the tire and after so many set changes the pinwheel only vaguely resembled the spacing you had shown

Anyway – he started finding the backside of the middle jump while avoiding the gross patch of grass in the beginning (and we’ve been working on our zip verbal) but he kept doing it in the new set up

I had to stay close to middle jump to keep him on front side

West lazy game issues

[Shasta]

Rayna doesn’t have a startline but sometimes in private, with low arousal, when she is in a thinking mood, with video editing, we can sort of have one for a little while.

We got stuck on the second variation of 3 – maybe I wasn’t leading out enough?

Anyway, she was well beyond her quota of stays near agility equipment so I left sequence 5 and 6 for another day

[Shasta]

Thank you!

[Shasta]

Thank you so much for all your feedback
And for the extra catch up time at the end, I had much better luck with weather the last 2 weeks! I think today is the last day for video but maybe it was yesterday- can’t find the date now, I posted one more question below but disregard if was yesterday

West has been doing so much better with sit stays and returning with the reward which also helps in working through the exercises. He is so wild in public but at least doing well training with me alone😊

Question about camp for older dogs this summer – is there an option for second working dog slot? – I am considering who I would want to do class with…

Last MaxPup 2 question- back to serp and send, serps without opposite arm are new for me

It was hard to keep him off the jump with the fc wrap in the beginning- bad camera view but I was making eye contact – he was distracted by the treat and train

And I’m not sure if I need to give more information to get him to take the serp?

West send n serp

[Shasta]

Tried two things I have been avoiding bc I know I’m not good at them

Zig zag – poor West – he was doing the best he could with the info he was getting
I would have preferred a less exciting reward but he found it on the way to the backyard

Lap turns went better than tandems but it was the end of the session

Addendum

A long time ago….. I was asking about West taking off with toy after flyball recalls vs slamming his neck

You said “I TOTALLY agree that we don’t want to let the dogs snap their necks or spines on the toy… Ideally we let them “run through” the toy, but they do need to bring it back pretty quickly for that 🙂 So a game you can play which will lock him onto you without needing to let go of the toy or snap his neck is a change of direction on the recall. Basically, as he is catching up to you (about a stride or two away) you are decelerating then do a FC the other direction 🙂 Then reward him for chasing you – and you can reward with the toy in your hand and he won’t slam his neck 🙂”

So – question is entirely about what ME so I tried with my older dog who can do a sit stay without having a stroke (and is also slower giving me time to figure out what to do) – I think the second try is what I am trying for??

Flyball Recall

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Shasta.

[Shasta]

Some retries here after getting feedback

Smiley face – trying for better connection out of tunnel

Accordion –
Changed first jump to bump
Changed last jump to 8 inches
Also added toy which completely changes his mindset and his stay
Still not bouncing 11 ft but 8 inches not much for him and he was focused on toy?

FTWIYH Go with STAY – so hard
FTWIYH RC – timing is so tricky

And New for us!
FTWIYH backside – I felt I needed to be over near his wing to keep him off frontside but then I don’t know how he could see wing🤷‍♀️

Last one I needed to be a little slower but he was tired so didn’t re-try

[Shasta]

Get out will have to try again without step

Minny pinny
Still using physical handling
Is bar spacing ok? Not sure if extra step is collection or due to spacing?

[Shasta]

This is so helpful!!! Thank you!

The flyball team I joined is a fairly new team with lots of green dogs but I go to practices run by more experienced team sometimes so can work on some of this there

There is a lot of really good intentioned peer pressure to take advantage of mat time opportunities but I was seeing that overall I didn’t feel it was very productive for him. (I have a 4 yo reactive dog who would have been reactive either way but the pandemic didn’t help – she can finally cope with attending (not participating in) dog sport events – she is West’s cousin so of course, I am paranoid to make sure he is exposed to competition environments but I recognize just being there for the weekend is good for him and being out of control in mat time is not😊

Anyway, we are going to try me running around him in recalls and your suggestions for how I catch him after recalls and are arranging to practice alternating recalls with a more seasoned calmer dog at practice

Checking out webinars
Will re-try rear cross

Jump grids:
1 I don’t know if adding the tire is ok? So we just tried a couple – he did hit his feet on it once so maybe not a good idea?
2 tried accordion grid – he had just upgraded to 5 ft grid 2 sessions ago so I wasn’t sure if he would struggle with the larger spacing but seemed ok – didn’t bounce the 11 ft gap but did bounce the 8 ft gap

[Shasta]

Yes I let the broken stay go for a bunch of reasons mainly I think I was that time unclear and he did catch himself.

3 jump grid, tried 5 ft – he manages ok though sometimes he just makes it over the bump?
Am not sure if there is any progress using his rear out of the sit???

Tried the wind in the hair rear cross but I think I was running an L too much?

And mat time.
Not in video but, West did a great job with his pattern games with a lot of distance at the back door – he was able to look around and reinitiate the pattern on his own and he had some excitement but was still able to think, engage, and respond

He HAS learned his pattern games in calm environments but I’ll make sure to do lots of practicing in calm environments since now I’m mainly using them in high excitement situations

Video shows him trying to work with a teammate in the other lane…..

Recall looks ok to me, he is distracted but still engaged

However I’m not sure about later when he was attempting ball to tug and his teammate is doing recalls

The video clip was representative of the session – he managed to just keep his thinking until the excitement begins and then he is “over threshold” he breaks off tugging, is staring, unable to respond and would 100% take off chasing if not for long line

The video ends because my teammate stopped filming to come help – but cycle repeated

Once the recall was over he re- engaged and retrieved the ball in a distracted manner while they walked back but next recall he was completely gone

My feeling is that this is probably not productive and that I should move him out of the lanes for more distance before recalls start so that I can work on engagement rather than struggling to work with him in this state?

And I think there are sessions in brain camp flix that are relevant to him right now?

West 5 ft grid and 2 rc

West mat time

[Shasta]

Thanks all very helpful

We tried up down pattern game using a bowl, at a distance, while his most exciting teammate was doing recalls – the combo of the game and distance was great (I love the idea of having him between my feet but we haven’t trained that position yet, so he was just next to me). He was able to turn his head to look and then turn back to me for the next cookie

He did pretty well alternating recalls but there is one young dog- handler combo that is so exciting he breaks off tugging and just stares, body rigid, leash taunt as they go by (he’s not lunging or barking but he feels over threshold and unable to respond) – when her recall is over he re-engages with me – my gut feeling is we need more distance because I don’t think he can play a pattern game so close

We also used pattern game entering the building/ racing area and that was going well!

This video….

Tried the three jump grid – still 4 feet between jumps – he’s bigger than my female and she considers 4 ft grids to be a collection exercise so…. I was expecting to need to open it up but it looked ?

3 jump grid 4 feet

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