[Shasta]

I have to remember not to say “try again” -I have been trying to just ask for a hand touch and reward, my girls seem to understand “try again” as “almost there, we’re just going to change a little thing and get a reward” and it helps them do another rep but for West he seems to hear an angry game show buzzer “you lose and get no reward even though I gave you bad handling” 😢 – I noticed the body slams while editing

2 questions

Rear crosses
I was never felt satisfied with our max pup 1 rc attempts – I was late and he wasn’t getting it – it’s on my list to re-attempt but never did it, I don’t know if I should keep trying on the flat or move onto jump – wind in hair exercise? I guess I could give both a couple tries of both and see…..

Flyball mat time
My older dog has just started flyball tournaments and she and I have been on our own timeline over about 5 years so she started tournaments not having done mat times and when offered mat time for West I wasn’t quite sure what to do with him

When West was 6-7 months old he was so good off leash but then adolescence ……..

he really would like to go say hi to all the dogs and he loves a good victory lap with his tug – couple times around the room, culminating with saying hi to some dog who may or may not want to say hi – and then he’ll make his way back to me for some “thank god you finally came back cookies”

I try to catch him from recalls gently where I keep hold of the tug and we slow together but if he is fast and the gentle slow doesn’t work then I let got bc I’m not comfortable snapping his neck around so sometimes he has his tug for the victory lap and sometimes he just lets go of the tug and heads off alone

All this to say, he has been on a long line at flyball since March and it’s working well

For mat time on his long line we’ve tried
– looking at another dog from his mat for cookie at a big distance —> hard
– playing a pattern game that he knows: down on bed – cookie to left – down on bed – cookie to right —- down on bed > has gone well
– alternating tugging and down on bed (bed essentially start button to resume tugging) —> has gone well
– playing ball to tug – —-> being selective about when to try, this has mostly been ok – once he escaped to go greet his teammate doing recalls
– recalls w/o jumps —> hardest but we have managed with me catching him and his line before timers and getting my foot on the line while tugging

(- some of our teammates work on foundations for box turn or practice on the box but west is 11 months and practicing being reliable getting his ball off the board leaning against a wall so I have not been doing box turn type stuff during mat time)

This weekend we have another chance to do some mat time – I am not sure what to do with him…..

We have several potential teammates and West has a hierarchy of how exciting he finds his teammates so I like to have a couple plans in mind so that I can make a choice based on his arousal level in the moment???

Maybe I’m asking, is it bad to use his mat time for pattern games??

[Shasta]

Hi

I was feeling so behind – and West needed some movement so I picked 2 tunnel exercises

Look for jump – had some late throws and my parallel and lateral positions often looked same But overall went ok

We just did two rounds of the smiley face game from week 1 at the end

I think he liked these games

West look for jump

[Shasta]

We had to do some pre homework before I tried the send and serp exercise because we hadn’t done much with it during max pup 1
I have used the opposite arm with serps and had to wrap me head around it – I know I could have done opposite arm here but I was trying for the strike a pose position – though when he was struggling I did all sort of stuff with my arms. Anyway we reviewed the exercises from last class over the weekend so I thought this would feel more familiar to him

We started with disaster. We struggled with the send and the serp. I left in a lot of the struggle as I’m sure I wasn’t being clear. And he has only heard the soft turn cue in the minipenney set up. I edited out him getting cookies for hand touches in between our failed attempts. So it wasn’t as low a rate of reinforcement as it looks. I normally would have given up on the session but despite being really annoyed with me, he was still trying.

West send serp

[Shasta]

>> When he was standing, he was pretty balanced – so you can play with a stand stay! It will be easy enough to train: were you using a stay verbal?

Actually no he doesn’t have a cue for stay – just “sit” or “side” which is my line up at my side word.

I’ll work on trying a still stand and see if that is better. Also I’ll train “stay”

I was very excited about the line up lecture!!

>> What is happening in the RDW homework? We can think of a different approach for that too 🙂

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We are doing this striding exercise so he had to sit in the little runway at a measured distance- I was facing him to help him but he still found it challenging… – but I think we’re done with it for now

We tried the Wind in Our Hair
It went well but we had some issues

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1 my throwing was terrible- he caught the holee roller in the air twice, not pretty, I edited that out, cringe – fortunately West survived
2 retrieve vs extended victory lap vs jumping and pummeling – I tried throwing cookies to trade but there were these little pieces of tree bud and he would eat one cookie and 10 of those so I traded instead. Did you say you have a victory lap on cue? I am wondering about that and putting the jumping up on cue too?

My Movie 481

3 I edited out but he got the pattern and wanted to do his wrap and take off without me, as a precursor to touching the collar, I was asking for a hand touch to start us off – clearly he has some collar paranoia bc I got some nice backing up away from me and my hand but we did sits downs spins and eventually he could give a nose touch to start

4 the toy on the ground was hard- we only tried a couple

[Shasta]

Hi
I have been experimenting with the trade for tossed cookie vs pummeling me vs running around with toy and not returning- nothing new to report yet

Except….. he finds running around dragging the big toy very very reinforcing so I am back to happily being pummeled if he comes back at all – but this session was in a small space and went
————————————
Anyway – we tried one session of the moving target and it went much better than expected so I added the set point the next session – probably I moved too fast

Still at 4 ft (between jump bumps)
I was trying for 6 inches from first bump but he finds getting repositioned at the set up very frustrating so I will work on that separately
(It is also coming up in our running contact homework)

When I did the session of moving toy/target alone without the wings he was not crouching like he does here so I’ll do another session without the jumps – but I also let it go here to avoid frustration

In summary- stay is really hard and I let a lot go😊

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[Shasta]

>>I feel your pain about brace for impact with the retrieve LOL For the tugging, you can have him trade for a 2nd toy when he is coming back – this can help him bring the first toy back faster and also prevent the jumping/pummeling 🙂 Trading for a cookie is even easier if he will like it.>>
I’ll try the trading!! The jumping seems to be increasing by the day. I usually don’t really mind a little jumping and don’t take much notice but he has to do it each retrieve – yesterday I was bending down to move equipment and once he bounced off my head/scalp and once my face 😢

– I appreciate him bringing the toy back but I can feel myself getting frustrated with him and I’m sure it’s affecting my energy and he feels it
And there are a couple people with train with in person occasionally that he could really injure…….

>>His stay looked great and it looks like he focused forward on his target brilliantly!!!! >>

It definitely doesn’t usually look like that but it’s nice to see with low distractions, he can do it

>>How is your moving target pre-game going? We are going to be adding that here soon, which will change things up for the jumping foundations 🙂>>

I need to get working on this – I watched that video and had a puppy moment “that sounds hard, I’m going to go check my email”. But I’m very curious and interested to see what we do next so will work on it

[Shasta]

>>Nice!!!! For now, you can give the box turn a break because he is a little young to do more (ideally we finish it off when he is closer to 16 months or so, when his brain and body have caught up to each other LOL!). I can give you a ton of flyball games to play in the meantime, which will help with his focus 🙂 >>

Oh is the wall not good for him at this age?

————————

We worked on set point with cookies – he was thoughtful and was doing his best stays❤️ –

I set up 5 ft apt but it looked too big so I moved to ~ 4ft

[Shasta]

We tried wrap proofing – definitely he needed some clues/gestures – I had hoped to try the other side too but we were working on a lot of stuff

At first I was using my collar cue and he was offering but on the last try he decided he didn’t want to do it (after I had held the collar longer to give cookies, don’t think he liked that) but did a sit. (he prefers to offer his harness not the collar but I was rushing…)

Tugging – I edited most out, he has lately been taking his toy off for a private party and I working on reconnecting (except around 25 s on the video when I was distracted) after he scoops the toy and he is pretty good about reconnecting with some effort from me. But the reconnecting usually involves jumping… sometimes cute tugging jumping and sometimes, brace for impact, flail your arms, don’t fall over. (Me? Having the cake AND eating it too, yes)

And for West I have been trying to say counter in a short choppy way but in the beginning I forgot

Definitely we need to practice this more

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[Shasta]

Oh- I forgot to say, we have flyball tonight so going to see what happens this week with the wall and the turn

[Shasta]

Hi, Thank you!!!! This is SOOOO helpful!!!!!

>>Super!!!! Who is your local team? Fun!!>>
MassChaos Deborah Taylor Holt

>>It could be any number of reasons – was the set up of the board the same as it was here in your video? Or did something change (location, ball added, you moving away, etc)>>

Their board is a little wider – I wasn’t moving but maybe I was further back than I have been before
Location was the same but definitely West was more distracted

>>I train a box turn and the feet-through-a-box for RDC at approximately the same age range for my dogs, and it turns out fine.>>

This is so good to hear!

>> I would need to see what your handling is on the flyball wall board to see why he might be stopping on the ground in front of the board >>

Ah, I see, I need to think about my handling with the turn more

>> For the RDW box – work it away from a wall so that he can work the skill in a way that looks very different from the wall work for flyball. I usually sit when I am doing the box stuff for the RDW and I am standing when I do the flyball stuff. >>

Ok, yes I can do that

>> I personally think ALL dogs in agility and flyball should do the turns in a box game you were doing here because it is fantastic for collection and turning and both sports >>

Yes! I was sort of feeling this way too but don’t have any experience to support it

>> The other thing for the wall work in flyball – you can add the ball to the wall as a focal point and that makes it incredibly different from any RDW work. When you say sniffing at a velcro ball, what did you mean?>>

He has only had the ball on the wall two sessions and he has just sniffed at it or nose touched it, no grabbing yet –

>> I just added the ball to the wall on Tuesday!>>

🙂 my question is perfect timing

>> so I will try to get some video so you can see what I mean>>
If not too much trouble, that would be awesome

>>I love obsessing on flyball box turns so feel free to ask questions>>

Thank you! A lot of people I know focus on either flyball or agility

———————————————————————–
We have been working on the soft turn verbals and it is a lot of repetition so I hadn’t filmed but I decided I should and noticed a lot of extra turns when I set him up?

(My tight turn words are counter (I have been trying to consistently say it in a short choppy way) and right so for soft turns I am say LA and Rue both more drawn out?

Lastly, I have been struggling some with the serp/threadle exercises and (I know this is obvious now that I think about it but it didn’t click at first) I realized with both my older dogs I still do lots of arm changes with both serps and threadles, I have been debating if I should try with West the open shoulder no arm change approach – I think I can teach him the arm changes later if its not working??

Thank you again for such helpful feedback at the end of class

[Shasta]

Ha – I do know a dog obsessed with 🎾

Yes sometimes West will trade for tug but sometimes he feels bringing the ball back should be paid with food, but at least he is bringing it 🙂

So I have another intersection between flyball and agility question: West is learning a box turn and I don’t really know how to train it but a local team with great trainers has a clinic where they help people like me learn….
And I am also for the first time training running contacts so taking a class and learning as I go

At flyball, West has been turning on a board and sniffing at a Velcro ball but after a week of turns in a box for running contacts he could no longer get on the wall he just turned in front of it

I’m sure the long answer is well beyond the scope of this class…. I know there are different strategies for teaching rc and maybe some methods don’t emphasize turns in the box like this…

And I see the similarity in the mechanics of both turns so I see why he is confused- I think this is another instance where he is going to sort it out in context if I just keep going- so I think I’m asking – do you see any red flags here? Any OMG that-is-the-worst-thing-you-can-possibly-be-doing thoughts?

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And we have been trying to catch up – we brought the barrel fun outside bc the ice finally melted – West thought the same barrels from the living room were really scary outside but once he convinced himself they were barrels we had a little session

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[Shasta]

Hi, we haven’t been posting, but we have been working on things here and there….

There are so many things I want to work on but I am trying not to overwelm West

I ran into a question for someone who does both agility and flyball!
– West had a very hard time working with me holding a toy at agility – kept grabbing it when it moved
– Discussion was on me being more consistent in using “get it” or “tug” when he is meant to take the toy, definitely something I need to do, but then I was thinking about flyball recalls where I call his name and run holding a toy and he is supposed to grab it
– Do you do anything specific to try to avoid that kind of confusion or do you find it sort of works itself out with context
– (My aussie who does occasional flyball does not care for toys, and my bc who taught me about all things tug related, is too reactive for flyball, so this is new for me)

We worked on ball retrieve
I started out without food but I needed it to restrain him – i might have just skipped the restrain but in the little hallway I needed him to turn around and get the ball past him… he was fine with it once I had food
But then, he was more interested in food so he retrieved the ball for food for a while, then, after some negotiation about which tug, he did a couple reps tugging

???? In flyball, I don’t know what I don’t know so…. ???

[Shasta]

Yes – if I’m not paying attention he gets into constantly jumping on me and then humping me – so I’ve been trying to keep his tugs low and focused on the toy

New thing: 1 Parallel path
Transitioning from prop to jump bump – was trying to get the cookie out before the head turn – felt we were making an arch rather than a straight line, is that ok?

Review (with more speed)
2 Focus forward
I had a rocky start – but we got a couple good ones
3 Drive to handler- I meant to do it without food lure but forgot and had food in opposite hand the 1st couple tries

[Shasta]

Oh – so we tried a little impromptu session of the sit catch with a toy…. Much harder! But i didn’t have the camera 🙁
He found it much harder to offer his sit.
Letting it percolate then will try again with camera

Anyway….. we went way back to week 1 to practice blind cross foundations – I have been procrastinating on this one because it is challenging for me

I’m not sure about my bc timing but to me he looks like he was doing his best

He only ended on the left once / ill have to practice that side next session

tugging -and jumping – I have been trying to give him a target or getting him moving lower or intercept the toy before he jumps?

[Shasta]

Hi, we are trying to get back on track

We practiced sit and catch – second session

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