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First of all, I was cracking up reading your notes! Most people don’t have the skill to make someone laugh when you’re telling them all the things they’ve done wrong (repeatedly), but you have totally mastered that, lol. Two of my non-agility friends and my husband all gave me funny looks when I explained that the reason I was laughing was that I was reading about how I messed up my runs with Nox. 🤣
<<point-free zone and it was gorgeous!>>
<<And if she does back and come off a line, that is her yelling “POINTY! POINTY!!!!” (Nox always yells her feedback)>>
I’m seeing a trend here, lol. No POINTY POINTY!!! And yes, she only has one volume in conversations, and they tend to be one-sided. 🤣
I KNOW I’m not supposed to point at things, and I tell students in my class not to point ALL the time, lol. I just can’t feel it and don’t always recognize it as the problem in my videos when *I’m* the one doing it. It’s hard not having an in-person instructor for moments like these, but I will try to specifically look at my videos for “Pointy Situations” when she yells at me, and hopefully I can catch myself doing it more in the moment.
I have run previous dogs a long time ago without using arms as a handling challenge, but I don’t think I’ve ever tried it with Nox now that you mention it. I will try it out! Should I use my arms to run or do my best penguin impression? 🐧
And your explanation about where to reward for threadle wraps makes total sense!
Hello!
I ran both girls on the Package 2 Jumping 2 Course. We ran it last week and then went out of town. I came home and ran it again, and it went much better! I am submitting Katniss’s runs for feedback.
The first day (beginning of the video), I was so messy in my handling!! I’m blaming my shorts, lol. They were new and apparently are terrible for running in since they don’t stay where they are supposed to. Kind of odd since they are meant for running. Anyways, those shorts went in the donate pile and we tried again the next day. 😂
The hardest part consistently was the threadle wrap at #13. I worked on the skill with her as a warm-up before two of the sessions, and she did relatively well with it, but once I added other obstacles in front of it, she would either take the front side or (more often) do a circle around the jump. I don’t think I was deceling enough on some of the reps, but I was struggling to get the blind in as it was, lol. I think she also just didn’t know what to do with her body because she definitely looked at the jump. I did the first 2 sessions the day before we left for vacation and the morning of, which was before getting your feedback about putting the bar down and throwing the reward on the line. I did that in our warm-up before the last reps, but I put the bar back for the full run and was trying to do the whole thing, but I’m not sure that she was ready for it. It’s obviously a skill both dogs need some confidence with. There were a couple of other spots where I broke connection before she was committed to the next obstacle. Whoops! Overall, I was thrilled with how well she did on the skills in this course!
This is Nox running the same course being a total superstar! 🤩 I just wanted to share. 🙂
Hello!
<<OMG same here! CAMP started back in 2012 when summers were so much nicer!>>
I miss those days!!!
<<For now, take the bar out so all she needs to do is turn back to a wing wrap >>
I practiced this a bit and then put the bar at 6″ in the big course so it would look like a jump. She hasn’t done a lot of work with just wings (maybe that’s part of our problem, lol) since she didn’t go through the foundations with MaxPup.
<<And, for the threadle wraps, put all reward on the landing side so it really builds up in value. The rewards were generally coming near you on the next line, but throwing the rewards away from you on the landing line will make a big difference for commitment.>>
I thought I was rewarding on her line for the wrap. So I shouldn’t throw it at the completion of the wrap to encourage a tight turn? Instead I should throw it before she’s really finished the wrap?
On to new stuff:
We have been playing on the Package 2 (yes, we’re a bit behind, lol) jumping courses. Nox ran it pretty well the first time, but we did run into some issues as I was trying to clean things up. Our problem spots were #3 (started getting refusals and spins, but I realized I was pushing her off her line), #10 (realized I needed an “out” verbal instead of a backside), and #16 (refusals and spins). I worked on these problem spots one session, but I didn’t hit the record button apparently, so I sadly don’t have too much of that in the video for you to see. There was one time where I tried to keep going after an error, and we got stuck in a sheltie tornado, lol. You’ll hear me to tell her to get off of me (as in stuck on me, not actually touching me). It’ll be obvious, haha.
Hello!
Have you ever considered a fall camp instead of summer? 🤣 I’m so done with the heat index being over 100 just about every day!!
<<Also for both of them, I think this was more of a session on how to go past a jump to find a tunnel>>
That’s an interesting thought. I was assuming it had more to do with driving away from me in general for Nox. I felt like Nox was at least considering that I was saying different things and was thinking even if she got the wrong answer or wouldn’t go do it on her own. I can see how building her confidence would be helpful by backing up a bit in the steps. For Katniss, she does a lot of assuming about what the next thing is going to be (typically whatever is straight in front of her). She did so well with this sort of game in Max Pup, but now that she’s older and has more speed, she does not listen as well to what I’m saying (in agility or life 😂). We will certainly keep playing different versions of this game!
<<Adding the weaves to make it a 3 way discrimination happened a bit too early in the learning here.>>
It’s always hard for me with a class because I want them to be successful, but I also want to get far enough in the steps that I can get some helpful feedback for when the class is over and I need to keep progressing on a skill on my own.
Moving on the next thing! I did the threadle wraps sequences from Package 2 with both dogs. I was having the most trouble with Nox, so that’s mostly who you will in this video. I did add two reps of one sequence of Kat at the end because the problem spot for her was the threadle wrap, so I am assuming I am doing something wrong with cuing it.
Nox had issues with the backside push AND the threadle wrap, but I really didn’t feel like there was any progress with the wrap. I trained Nox to do a backside push using the same verbal as a backside slice because I didn’t realize I needed a separate cue initially. Then I went to one of your in-person workshops and saw how important it was that she had two different words. I did start using a separate verbal a while ago, but it hasn’t helped. She has a really good backside slice, but the wrap is much harder for her, and she yells about it a lot. The threadle wrap is even worse. She has a nice threadle slice, but the wrap is really hard. I have practiced them for quite some time now (over the course a year at least), and she still hates them. I have broken it down and always rewarded on her line behind me as I move away or parallel to the bar to encourage the wrap, but it’s still a pretty big struggle. I have wondered if this is related to her jumping issues or if she doesn’t like bending her body and I need to do some conditioning work specific to that movement. She doesn’t seem to have issues with bending in the weaves, and she gets regular chiro, but the thought has crossed my mind. Or maybe it’s me!
The sessions in the beginning of the video were done with breaks in between but on the same day. When I am wearing the green shirt, it’s actually two different days. I have 3 of the same shirt, lol. So I don’t think being tired was the crux of our issues, especially given her history of struggling with these skills.
Katniss did really well with the backside push, but I do still have to stay and support her a bit. I might actually be able to leave a little earlier, but I didn’t push it. The threadle wrap was challenging, and we haven’t worked on them since Max Pup really, but she was at least going over the bar unlike Nox, lol. I got that spin twice in this sequence. She had some better reps where she got the wrap, but I wanted to include the ones we messed up since I’m seeking feedback on my handling moreso than on the rest of the sequence with her. She did great with the warm-up sequences where there was very little motion (and therefore speed). I’m thinking hers is mostly inexperience and me trying to figure out what cues she needs to see since she’s so different from Nox.
We’ve already started working on the jumping course from this package that uses these skills but with varying levels of success, so I’m hoping I can improve on my cuing of these wraps to apply to them to the big course better before I choose which reps to send in for feedback.
Hello!
<<We practice at Level Up, but not that often. I will let you know when the next one is!>>
Please do!!
<<The BC is a little harder to get to there on time, so she was a little wide. You can keep her on your right side and do a threadle wrap on 12 too.>>
You will see why I didn’t try a threadle wrap with her when I edit and post the package 2 handling skills sequences, lol.
<<The BC 19-20 might have felt awkward on the first run because you didn’t add 21 which makes the line nicer. You had the 21 jump there on run 2, which was definitely smoother!>>
Haha! I didn’t even notice that when I ran it or when I edited the video. Whoops!
<<Yes, she has done a lot of reps of it and after the initial training, I don’t think she has gotten rewarded specifically for it so she was heading to where the rewards were (closer to you :)) So keep rewarding that teeter skill! Plus it is a lot of slam on the body, so you can limit the reps so she doesn’t get sore.>>
We don’t do a whole lot of teeter training, and in a trial, I am typically not that far away from her, so she doesn’t have much practice with going to the end by herself with me “behind” her. She was starting to hop off the side. You are correct that I did not put the Manners Minder back at the bottom or throw her reward out there after the initial training! I totally see that I should have put it back or thrown something out there for her.
Moving on to new stuff! We worked on the discrimination game. I included both dogs in this video rather than submitting a second round. I hope that’s ok!
Nox figured the game out pretty quickly, but she really struggled with the weaves. I suspect it was the location rather than the weaves themselves. As you know, Nox does not particularly like going away from me to do things independently (which is ironic given her independence in the rest of her life, lol). I think that was her biggest issue with the weaves. I was trying really hard to play this game similarly to “the lazy game” so that I didn’t give her much help in terms of handling pressure. I haven’t tried putting the weaves where the jump or tunnel is yet, but I will definitely revisit this game periodically, and that will be one of the configurations we do.
Katniss struggled with the concept in general, particularly in the beginning. She was positive that the answer was the backside of the jump, lol. She was especially barky and opinionated from the start. I’m not sure if that was the game or just her mood that particular day. Sometimes she is thoughtful, and sometimes she acts like the 2 year-old that she is. 🤣 She didn’t seem to be listening to my verbals, and I wasn’t sure how to get her to the obstacles without physical pressure or with a hand motion. Can I “cheat” and give her hints with a step or two towards the obstacle if she gets stuck? Is this helpful for learning this game? I know she can play the game with me holding her collar and not letting go until she looks at the correct thing, but in order to add motion, I was trying to move past that step. Maybe she’s just not ready for that? I only tried the weaves a few times with her since she’s only been weaving for a few months. I wanted to see if she had any idea what the word meant. I think it was the same issue as Nox where the weaves were too far away for her to notice.
Hello!
<<This is SO FUN!!!!! It is a whole new fun sport to enjoy 🙂 You can also come practice with us in Richmond!>>
That would be fun! How often do you practice, and how would I find out about when/where?
<<It is lovely to have a built in IT division 🙂>>
Most definitely!!
Your notes from the first run said to work on the connection with backside pushes. I still struggled with that in this video. It’s been a weak point for me because, as you said, it’s counterintuitive not to point at things! I’ll keep working at this!! And the tandem turn into the rear cross was especially hard for me. I don’t do a lot of tandem turns, and you know that rear crosses are my kryptonite, so putting them together was particularly challenging.
This is our attempt at Package 1 Standard 2. I think our second run was the best one. On the last attempt, she didn’t want to do the teeter. She showed me she can do the skill, so I had her do the teeter once without layering and then started after the tunnel. She may have just been getting tired, and that takes a lot of her brain power! I finally ran the last half (just before the weaves) the way I intended in terms of crossing and giving her cues early enough to turn.
Hello!
I FINALLY got to edit my video from package 1 standard course 1, lol! I ran it a few times over the course of several days since my training sessions have to be so short due to the heat. But then I was having issues with my computer and couldn’t edit anything! So frustrating!! But I got my IT team (i.e. my husband) to help me figure out the problem.
When I set the course and then looked at the numbers, I was a bit disheartened. When I saw the teeter all the way off to the side on the other side of the dog walk, I thought there was no way that was happening with Nox since she has feelings about me being far away from her. I walked it a few different ways that would have put me over there with the teeter, but none of them seemed viable. Then, I read through you suggestions (I always walk it first and then look at yours afterwards) knowing that you were going to suggest layering. After having a pity party about how this was too hard for us, I decided to do some backchaining using my Manners Minder at the end of the teeter. I included some of the pieces we did of the backchaning at the beginning of the video because I was so freaking proud of her for getting it!!! (Feel free to skip past it to about the 1 minute mark for the full course). The hardest parts for us ended up being the backside wraps and the tandem turn after the a-frame. You know, that parts where I was really close to her. 🤣 The first run was the best one somehow. I was sooo happy with how she did! No, it wouldn’t have been a Q in a trial, but I didn’t think we’d do anywhere near that well.
On another note, Katniss has gone to 4 flyball practices with my local team (Harrier Jump Jets). She has done AMAZING!!! I was worried about her chasing other dogs. She was doing so well with the callbacks over the jumps that they had another young dog do them in the other lane. Kat ran over to say hello after getting her toy, but the other dog told her to go away (she was surprised someone didn’t like her, lol). After that, she had no interest in going over there. Today, she did a box turn on a board on the box and grabbed the ball off a piece of velcro, no problem. They had me do the whole pattern, and she absolutely rocked it!! She also raced against another dog and didn’t even think about visiting.
Hello!
<<She got mad when you said “yay” at 4:35 and didn’t reward her LOL>>
Haha, I didn’t even notice that. Yes, she totally thought she was supposed to come in and get a cookie for that. I’m lucky this dog doesn’t bite, lol!I worked on the Jumping 1 from Package 1 again with Nox. I probably should have submitted Katniss’s runs for feedback instead, but I was so happy with these runs that I just had to share them! It’s possible she memorized the course by this point, but I’m taking the win, lol. I got stuck after the tunnel again before 15 on the first run. Watching the video, I’m pretty sure I could have made it up there for the blind. On the 2nd run, I tried wrapping her the other direction to see how it worked, and she executed it pretty well. I didn’t like the line it gave her to 16 as much, and that didn’t work at ALL with Katniss, but Nox turned pretty tight on 15 and has a good backside, so she made it work even though she landed wide after 16. I would have considered the German turn you suggested, but I totally misread it and thought you said a German on 15, and it was way too close to the fence for that to safely work. Whoops, too late now to try that, haha! But that does make a lot of sense to get me down the line faster.
<<So even at home, you are getting a lot of movement in the stay, which I can see becoming too much movement when she is more excited at a trial.>>
Yes, I get the same behaviors at home as in a trial. So I can’t just blame the trial environment, lol. But, I actually think that might be a good thing because it’s so hard to work on a problem that only shows up in a trial!
<<Something to try is to dismount, step to the side a little and pause, allowing her to settle into her position. Then remind her to stay and move to your lead out position.>>
This was my strategy for a little while, but it didn’t seem to help. She seemed confused and would think I wanted her to follow me when I started moving again. But maybe I can isolate this picture away from agility and use it to make sure I’m stepping away normally and not all weird. Then I can put it in front of a jump as soon as she is successful.
I got a suggestion to use a PVC “box” that is just 3 small pieces of pipe with elbow connectors so it forms 3 sides of a rectangle and to have her sit in it at the startline. The idea is that it’s a visual with clear boundries for her, and it’s easy to fade because you take off the side pieces and just have the front piece in front of her. I suspect you could even graduate to something completely flat like a thin leash and eventually a string if you couldn’t fade it easily. Do you have any thoughts on this strategy?
Hello!
We worked on Package 1, Jumping 1.
Katniss did amazing on the course up to the weaves, and then she forgot that she knew how to weave. 🤣 She yelled at me about it, and after a couple of tries we skipped them and did most of the rest of the course. I wasn’t sure if she’d be able to do the course because I remember how much Nox and I struggled our first year of camp. What a difference a good foundation makes!!
Nox was feeling neglected, so I am submitting her runs for Package 1, Jumping 1, Round 1. She really struggled with the opening with me being so far behind her even though she did great on the other exercises last week leading up to the big course. I think the difference was that jump #2 was super obvious to her in this course. She is very smart and thinks she always knows the correct answer, and she thought going to #1 was just dumb. It’s clearly a more efficient line to just skip that one. 🤣 The first couple of minutes of the video are working on that opening line. Well, that and chasing sheep. 🙄 After I taught my class, I brought her back out again, so she had a couple hours in between the sessions (distinguishable by the darkness, lol). This was a fun course, but Nox has always struggled a lot with distance from me and with layering in particular. I did not attempt to layer the line to the weaves because I wasn’t sure if she was ready for that, and we already worked so much on the opening layer that I didn’t want to frustrate her. The only other part that was hard for us was the 13-15 spot. I couldn’t leave her early enough at 13 to get ahead for the blind. I then got stuck doing a rear cross at 15, and I’m not sure why I didn’t drive ahead to the front side of 15 for the rear, which ended up working great. I think I was trying to figure out how to get her ahead of me when we were meeting at the tunnel exit. Then I somehow did it correctly on accident when I was actually going for the blind to a threadle and was just late, lol. Oh, she did turn the wrong way on 7 the first time, which also happened both times I ran Katniss on it, so I don’t think I was setting that rear cross line correctly (my nemesis, as you know 🤣).
<<I read this and was steeling myself for something FAR worse – tempers flaring, etc. You stayed relatively calm! Maybe you sent the wrong video 🤣😂🤣>>
Haha!! Although I do sometimes get frustrated when things don’t go according to plan, I don’t ever get MAD when I’m training. The exception used to be when Nox would run away and absolutely ignore any attempt to get her to come back. For the most part, I can just roll my eyes at her antics and go off with a handful of cookies to throw at her while yelling her cue to look for food on the ground. Now, if that doesn’t work and it’s been several minutes, well… 🤣 I think the reason I disliked the training session so much was I can see the stress I was causing her, and that makes me feel icky (technical term!). I always want my dogs to be happy and have fun when we’re training, particularly for sports. I don’t think Katniss was super upset, but she was clearly confused and frustrated, and I was annoyed FOR her when I was watching the video, lol.
I think I need to make sure I’m using all the brain camp and Max Pup arousal games both in training and in more exciting environments. I think I took her easy going nature (at least compared to Nox,lol) for granted and got a bit complacent with some of that stuff. I found that playing the pattern games and playing with a toy on top of warm-up to get her body ready to run was wearing her out before we got to the startline, so I backed off on a lot of it, and she seemed to do fine. However, I think that with all of the things you mentioned (dopamine, adolescent hormones and brain development, frustration, etc.), she’s showing me that she really does need some of those games. Now that she’s older, I think she’d be able to handle more of the excitement without tiring too much before the run. It may take a little while to find the sweet spot with the amount of time and reps I need to do.
I will also play the freeze game. We haven’t done that, but I think she would LOVE it! For the brain scramblers, her brain was pretty scrambled listening to your dogs play it. 🤣 We haven’t played that one before (I don’t think it was in any of the Max Pup classes that I have??), but I think that would help her a lot, too. I’m not sure I can do the 3rd level more than once or twice before the neighbors start thinking I’m murdering her. She has BIG FOMO!!!
Hello!
Here is round 2 of the Package 1 handling focus. I just did sequence 6 again since that was pretty much everything all put together. I included our entire training session since it was 5 minutes total. It was hot, so we did a few reps of startline practice at the beginning and then tried the whole sequence 3 times with a quick review of the whiskey on reps “3ish” and “3.5ish.” Enjoy a couple of bloopers, lol. She’s such a funny dog!
Hello Again!
I’m just dropping this here while I have the chance. We did the handling sequences over the course of 2 days (and multiple sessions since I was switching with Nox in between turns). I would have waited for feedback on the first couple before doing the other set, but I saw the forecast for this week and knew we wouldn’t be able to do much, so I did go ahead and do all 6 over the weekend (finally had time to post today!). Nox did freaking amazing on them and nailed them pretty much the first time with the exception of knocking a couple of bars and having to chase a bird once, lol (priorities!). I am submitting Katniss’s videos for this one.
I struggled to figure out how to keep going after she missed a jump when the tunnel was in the way. In hindsight, I guess I could have just thrown the toy the correct direction she was supposed to go anyways. I didn’t want to send her in the tunnel and reward since that’s what she thought I wanted anyway (at least the coming in to me part). I thought that might be confusing and make it harder to get her back out on the next rep. I know I didn’t support it enough a couple of times, but I still thought that might confuse her. I don’t have an explanation for what I was doing on the very first rep of the first sequence, lol. I don’t think there was any thought process to that except old habits die hard.
Hello!
I grabbed a section of the original video that has the startline struggles in it. I try really hard to not get stressed about it when she breaks, but it’s becoming a “thing,” and it is a source of frustration for me. I KNOW that I am making it worse, and this a terrible training session in terms of choices I made. I use the word “choices” loosely because these are not things I would have purposefully chosen to do as part of a training plan, and if I watched one of my students do this, I would stop them, lol. I guess reactions is a better word. This is not a video I would typically think to share with anyone, and I would prefer to delete it and pretend it didn’t happen, but that doesn’t help me get better, lol. (I promise I didn’t beat her, and it’s not THAT bad, haha.)
I worked really hard on making startlines precise and with proofing me doing weird stuff (stopping and restarting, looking at her and taking a breath before releasing, and other things that happen often on a startline), and she did great as a youngster. But as the game of agility starting getting more fun and she got a little older, it has become inconsistent. She had a great startline at home, at our training club, at workshops, and at FEO runs and real runs in trials. I’m not exactly sure what started the change, but there was one trial I did a few months ago where she got up I think 3 out of 4 runs. I can’t remember if those were FEO or for real runs, but I do not feel any differently about her runs whether they are with a toy or if it’s “for a Q.” I know that she is a baby still, and I still see all of her runs as training. In other words, I don’t *think* that my nerves played a part in the startline issue surfacing. That being said, I am starting to anticipate that she’s going to get up more recently, and although I’m not concerned that it will cost us a Q, I’m starting to worry that it’s going to be a life-long battle that I really don’t want to have. In my head, I’m thinking that every time she gets up on a startline, whether at home or in a trial environment, it’s one more repetition practicing what I don’t want.
I started fixing her feet moving because she WILL turn and face me instead of the first obstacle. She doesn’t always stand up, but her butt will rotate so her whole body is facing me. I was also thinking that maybe she needed clarity that no movement is acceptable so that she wasn’t guessing what was allowed and what wasn’t. Is moving a foot across her body ok but moving 2 feet isn’t? Can she move both front feet as long as her butt doesn’t rotate? Can she do any moving if her butt never gets up? I see your point in having to be consistent about it, though. I guess I was trying to do that but not doing it well.
I have worked on the stay in anticipation of getting her dinner and sending her to her crate. I put her on the startline in front of a jump and throw a cookie or toy at her with a “catch” reinforcer cue. I sometimes let her take the obstacle and keep running (I think she’d be annoyed if I just made her do startlines without taking obstacles even with a reward). I have gone with her food bowl for breakfast or dinner and just had her do one startline and then her reward is the whole bowl of food. She seems to do pretty well with these reps. I assume it is an arousal issue, and I know she is more likely to get up when she’s tired or in an exciting environment. But it happens at home on the first rep of something, too, so it doesn’t seem to just be that. I do not remove her from the startline and leave the ring because I think that would be super demotivating to her and I think it’s kind of mean, haha. I asked you about a start button behavior once in the Max Pup 4 chats. It was specifically related to this issue. I was wondering if I needed to take her getting up as a stress behavior and that she wasn’t ready or wanting to run. Or if perhaps I should think about taking her out of the ring or away from the startline in training to indicate to her that she only gets to run if she holds the startline and that I would take breaking as communication that she didn’t want to run. I don’t think that makes sense, though. Your answer didn’t support that either.
In the video, the first time she gets up, I didn’t release her because I could see her looking at the backside. In one of the other reps that she did the backside, I can clearly see from the camera’s angle that she was already taking the backside, but I didn’t see it in the moment. I suspect that she was upset about being “wrong” and that made her more likely to break the stay on subsequent reps. But again, that doesn’t always explain the issue in other situations.
There’s also a clip from a trial we did back in May where she broke. You can’t see her super well in the beginning, but you can obviously see me. This was an FEO run.
As you can probably tell, I’m starting to spiral on this, lol! Send help! 🤣 So without anymore rambling to my agility therapist (that’s you, sorry 🤣), here is the bad training session video.
Hello!
We finally had beautiful weather this weekend, so I was able to get some actual training done!!
I set up the sequence from Package 4, and we tried the first one. I started with a refresher on threadles, but that proved to be hard still. I think I was just overhandling it?? And I wasn’t connected on the tunnel when I tried layering. I threw that in by itself at the end of our session.
What is the last day for posting for this class? And are there other Zoom meetings? I seem to have lost the dates for those, lol.
