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Thank you so much for that feedback on my runs!! I watched the video several times but never connected my head movement to her knocking a bar. I also have never considered where the judge might be in relation to her line of sight, thus impacting her ability to process a jump. She is not very forgiving, is she lol?
<<add connection changes to the simpler more successful grids to help her maintain her mechanics>>
As an example, if I do a ladder gird in a straight line, should I use a different type of connection other than regular for some reps, or is it more a matter of leading out to different places and altering my speed so I have to connect with her behind, beside, and in front of me?Hi!!
I was finally able to get some training done before it got dark after work on Friday! I am so ready for winter to be done so I can train after 4:30pm, lol!! The weather isn’t helping either.
We tried the exit line connection set ups again. I felt like I was getting better with my mechanics overall, at least as far as which arm was doing what. I have two spots I’d love feedback on. First, what caused the dropped bar 1:20? Second, what is causing her to land so hard at 1:38? My guess was a late cue, but I wasn’t positive.
Here are the videos from the trial.
Premier Jumpers- She knocked a bar on the wrap; I then made a poor handling choice with putting the blind in the wrong place towards the end
Novice Jumpers- So many bars!
Now I just need to remember and replicate it every time, lol!
We were at a trial this past weekend, and she knocked a bar on her premier JWW run on a wrap. It was actually a really nice run other than that. After rewatching the video, I can see that I did not have enough connection (Exit line connection!!). On her novice JWW run, she knocked 4 or 5 bars. I don’t think I had enough connection there either. She still really struggles with jumping, especially in an arroused state, and I’d love to figure out if my level of connection (too much or not enough) is impacting that or if it’s mostly something caused by her emotional state. I’ve experimented with both levels of connection, but maybe I’m missing the sweet spot in the middle.
Hi!
This is the Exit Line Connection video. This one is a little messy, haha. I got completely mixed up about which hand the reward is supposed to be in for which cross despite watching your video multiple times and walking it without a dog. Since I was so focused on my hands doing weird things, I don’t think I thought about where my eyes were looking even once, haha. Apparently I can think about my eyes or my hands, but not both!
If you want to skip to 39.72, that’s where I figured out my mistake and put it in the correct hand for the front crosses (although somehow the first few reps technically worked, but they sure felt awkward, lol). There are 4 attempts at front crosses from that point forward. Then, there are 3 spins. Finally, I included 6 blinds, but feel free to ignore the last couple (just wanted them all in the same place). Sorry for cutting out the edge of the view in the blinds. I didn’t realize it until I was editing it!
Hi!
<<She had a little jumping trouble on the first 2 reps>>
STORY. OF. MY. LIFE! Lol!! Ugh!<<You might laugh (or smack me lol) I think you actually had a little too much connection on those early reps>>
😂😂😂😂 And this is why I need this class! We tried it again, and I think I did better job this time. I got one refusal when I left before she was committed to the wing, but that was an easy fix.Hi!!
Thanks for the magnet fingers video!
>>>> so she gets more aroused than at home. There was a lot of barking in places that I don’t think>>
I think a lot of that came from the footing being frustrating to her – she had to work a lot harder to keep her feet under her, especially on the bigger distance sends and the tighter turns.>>If she was your dog, would you avoid running on these kind of mats (they are Great Mats brand)? We only go to this facility every now and again because it’s air conditioned. It’s nice to have the option, but I don’t want to build in more frustration for her or risk an injury. I’ve only seen her really slip a couple of times, but I’ve also seen her do that on dry grass…
I was able to do one final course, and per your suggestion, I did the jumping ones from package 4. You said to focus on where she would be, not necessarily where I would like her to be when I’m doing my handling. Although I would have preferred several more blind crosses, I just didn’t think it was realistic for me to be in those spots because of the big lines, so opted for rear crosses. Unfortunately, those are very weak for us, so it caused a few issues. I think that’s the next big thing I need to focus on! (That and countermotion, lol). The video is a bit long, but it has both jumping 1 and 2. I struggled the most with 2, so if you want to just focus on one of them, I’d prefer #2, especially at the threadle wrap after the tunnel (I think it was #8 or 9). 🙂
Since I will be going to Rising Star for a seminar tomorrow, I very likely will not get a chance to post anything else, so I’d like to say thank you so much for all of the invaluable feedback you’ve given me!! I am so thankful to have found you and for your recommendation to do camp two years ago. I have learned sooooo much!! I set up some of the sequences from last year throughout the year, and it was so nice to have all the specific feedback to look over before reattempting them! I’m also very happy that I did the mental management add-on. Although I didn’t post much in that forum (not enough time in the day!), I have read through most of the material and have gotten some really good ideas from it. I will be going back through it more thoroughly now that camp is over and taking some notes to refer back to. I especially liked the live chats pertaining to that topic!
On another note, I was wondering if you were still planning to send me the extra pup tent you had? 🙃 If it’s too much of a pain, it’s totally ok!
Thank you again for everything! I hope we get to work with you in person again soon!
Hi!
>>That is a connection issue, because basically rear crosses are moving sends>>
Well, we know how much Nox loves sends, lol.
>>Basically, the only errors here were your connection was too soft in the places where you need BIG EYEBALL connection. Those are: exit of crosses, sends (including rears), landing of countermotion, and exits of tunnels.
Pretty much everywhere else can be normal connection which is more casual, and that is where things went really really well!>>
This is a bit of a struggle for me sometimes as far as figuring out which spots call for more connection and which don’t. You’ll see in the video below in the first sequence, it was really hard to get her out over the jump and into the tunnel. I tried a lot of connection and soft connection. I will try to keep those specific moments in mind when walking courses. Also, in that spot, I couldn’t figure out what to do with my arms. I used to run with my arms extended for the whole course, but since working with you these last couple of years, I have learned that often I should keep my arms down, or at least low. If I put my arm out to support the send, I was turning my upper body and pulling her off the jump. If I didn’t use my arm, she came into me. Is there a good guideline for what to do with your arms, lol?
>>you were kinda mad and you looked at her like “TAKE THE FREAKIN’ JUMP” (TTFJ) which is actually perfect connection…>>
That’s exactly what I was feeling, haha!!
>>When working the layering, rather than you go to the other side of the tunnel, you can move the jump in closer so she sees it better.>>
That definitely makes sense so that she can still see me being on the other side of the tunnel.
In the video below, we were at the indoor place again. We don’t go there very often, so she gets more aroused than at home. There was a lot of barking in places that I don’t think (?) she had questions because of my handling. We played Super Bowls before each run and 1-2-3 in the in between moments as much as possible.
There aren’t any walk throughs since my friend and I were walking at the same time. We pay by the hour, so I didn’t have time to do separate walks on video. 🙂
Hi!
>>Rear crosses are a tool that most folks don’t train enough but are SUPER handy. At seminars and classes, I think courses are set up to get the handlers ahead all the time but in reality, we are not always able to be ahead so rear crosses are really useful.>>
I definitely want to improve our rear crosses. She often barks and spins when I do one, but I know it would be very useful to be able to do them!
>> I think the hardest parts were the threadley sections>>
Yes! I am new to handling threadles correctly. I am feeling better about them, but they are still not fluent. I was very happy with some of the threadle wraps she did in the video below. 🙂
We did the RYG from week 5. It was very challenging!! We mostly struggled on the sequences with rear crosses and the layering of the tunnel.
Hi!!
>> I think on the smaller sequences, it is easier to be ahead so also easier to be in range of the jumps for handling and not parallel to or behind her.
>. Plus, all the bars come down in a scary way if I’m too far ahead.>
<This is useful info for planning – you can plan to get up closer to obstacles (especially tunnels) which can also help you NOT get so far ahead!>>
This sums up a lot of my problems, lol. I can’t get too far ahead of her because she has such a short commitment point before an obstacle, and she knocks bars. BUT… if I don’t get ahead, I’m always behind, and things go so much smoother if I’m ahead (and I’m certainly never catching up to her, haha).
I did a second attempt at the jumpers courses from Package 3.
<<You are definitely getting better about the ‘keep going’ if there is an error, and she reminds you when you don’t>>
<<My mantra is “Get on a line, any line, and go” 🙂>> (Totally adopting this phrase btw!)
Well, you will see a hilarious attempt to do this that turned into an absolute train wreck! It took me way too long to realize stopping was just better that point. Watching it on video was painful, lol.
I included 3 walk throughs of the first course (actual running with Nox starts at 2:21). I watched the walk throughs before running, but I didn’t catch a couple of errors that I made in every walk through until I ran it for real and Nox told me I was wrong, haha. I did several fast walk throughs on the 2nd jumpers run, but apparently I didn’t hit record, so you won’t see those included.
Oh! I signed up for a working spot in the Jump Into Shape class you recommended. It was perfect timing for your suggestion since the registration started a few days later. I’m SUPER excited about that!!
Hi!!
We have been on vacation for the last week, so it’s been a bit since my last post. 🙂
>>It is possible you need to do more ‘go fast’ walk throughs to get the arm locked in, so you don’t have to think about it and so it is easy on the first run. Rather than doing it once, do it 3 or 4 or 5 times to really get the flow – then watch your video of the walk through.>>
I do several fast “walk” throughs, but I only post one of them. 🙂
<<Overall, the runs are looking really good and you are tackling the most important skill… the walk through! When that is really comfortable, you will find that the courses run much better on that first run 🙂 It is all beginning to click into place, which is very cool to see!>>
I feel like things go really well on the shorter sequences (for the most part), but when we try to do the big courses, things fall apart. I think that a lot of it has to do with me getting behind in sections, often due to having to support her line all the way up to a lot obstacles since her commitment point is so close to the next thing. It would help if I could run faster, too, lol. I am seeing some improvement on driving to things by herself, but we have a loooonnnngggg way to go still. Plus, all the bars come down in a scary way if I’m too far ahead.
We ran the jumpers courses from Package 3 before we left for vacation, but I wasn’t able to edit the videos before we left unfortunately. I put them in two different videos. I know we’re only supposed to post one video at a time, so although I struggled in a couple of places in the first course, specifically with 12-13 and 16-20 (I know what the issue was for 11– leaving too early, lol), I need more help with the second course. I just could not figure out how to do 14 and 17. Getting from 20 to 21 was also difficult, but I think if I could get ahead more at 17-18-19, that would help. If you want to skip the first video, I’m totally ok with that. 🙂
Hopefully the quality isn’t too bad. It was getting dark (since that’s the only time it’s not 1000 degrees…), and my phone doesn’t take the best videos at night.
Since I will not have time to do all of the material before the last day to post thanks to bad weather, Nox being sick, and our vacation, do you have a recommendation of what I should focus on based on the skills we need to work on? Here’s what we have left.
-Package 3, Round 2 of Jumpers (videos in this post are round 1 of these)
-Package 3, standard
-Package 4, jumpers and standard
(There wasn’t a live for package 4, right?)
-Package 5, everything (Is there supposed to be anything on the overview page for 5?)If you don’t have any specific recommendations, I’ll just pick a couple and then work on the rest after camp is over. I am definitely going to do the RYG challenge for 5. That looks super fun (although I think it might be difficult since Nox thinks countermotion is stupid, lol).
Hi!!
>>I recommend Dr. Leslie Eide, a sports vet who teaches online jumping and conditioning classes
Thanks! I’ll check her out.
>>One thing to remember is that the dogs are always slower on mats and the handlers are always faster
Yes, I think she is more careful on the mats to avoid slipping. I only saw her really slip once (and only noticed it in the video!), but she’s definitely slower.
>>One thing I notice on the walk through (that was mirrored on the run) was that you are really far from jump 2 here – as the dogs learn to be super independent on the threadle, you will need support it with a positional cue by being close enough to the jump to touch it
Thanks for that observation! I didn’t realize that I should be so close to it. It feels like the closer I go to the jump, the rather behind I’ll be getting to the next line, but if I’m not trying to “handle” it with my shoulders as you also mentioned, I should be able to leave earlier. I know with the threadle wrap you said my feet should be facing the next line, not the jump she’s wrapping. Is that true for the threadle slice as well?
>>You can try going even faster on all of the walk throughs, and also get the verbals out loud like you would do on a run – that changes the body language!
I already feel like I’m going fast until I watch the video, hahahahaha! It also feels hard to go fast in the smaller or more technical courses. So much direction change! I don’t know how Nox does it. Maybe I need more legs… I will work on louder verbals, too, in the walk through.
>>The other thing to plan in the walk through is seeing her head look at the jumps – that seemed to be the only real source of questions from her on any of these – you being a little early to cue or move away, which pulls her off or pushes her to a different line.
If you want to just save yourself time, I think you can just copy and paste that as your feedback to everything I submit, lol!! I tell myself before I run to watch her face for commitment. And then when I run, I only do it half the time. But… I think I did better on the video below (at least the 2nd attempts, lol).
>>Depending on exactly how the jump is set up (it was hard to see here), it is generally a backside push to slice but a threadle wrap is good to practice there too.
This is a skill I’m definitely going to practice!! It was an interesting challenge.
On to the new stuff… We did the Live 3 sequences. We did these Tuesday, so it was before I was able to edit and submit the last video. The verbals on the walk through are a bit quiet (and even a bit quiet when I was running I noticed…), and the speed could probably be faster taking into account your feedback previously. I only stopped once when I messed up. I knew I should have kept going as soon as I threw her reward. I was super happy with the whole session. It was crazy hot, and we were only supposed to do two reps max anyway, so this was our entire training session. I did walk/run the courses several times before I brought her outside. Again, her questions were pretty much when I left early. I just need to get my 1st reps to look like the 2nd ones!
Hi!
>>>>She is a 16 inch jumper, but I trial and usually train at 12 because she has always had such difficulty with jumping cleanly. >>
This is SUPER smart and I wish more people would follow your lead on this.>>
The decision was based on advice you gave me last summer. I do not regret the decision at all! 🙂
In regards to the jumping issues, I did have her hips x-rayed when she was about a year old, but I have to admit she hasn’t had any of the other tests you mentioned. I will consider bringing this up with our vet.
>>So she needs a power-steering style of handling – smooth, calm, within the bubble for jumping (maybe 10 feet or less), with subtle transitions – but no slamming on the brakes or hitting the accelerator hard LOL!!
So basically, I have to be perfect in my handling. No problem, LOL!!
>>Plus, there is a boatload of conditioning and skill work we all need to do (but most of us don’t do enough, myself included) So she might need jump grids once a week, just to work the balance and hind end, maybe cavaletti work, etc.
I know VERY little about jump grids and am just learning about conditioning work. I have the Susan Salo book. Should I just go through and pick random ones to set up each week? I have looked for online jump classes, but I haven’t found much. As you said, it’s a complex skill, and it seems that not many people have the knowledge to troubleshoot when the dog isn’t a natural jumper. It’s been a frustrating couple of years looking for answers!
Moving on to the next thing- we had the opportunity to rent some indoor AIR CONDITIONED space a couple days ago. We worked on RYG sequences from package 4. I was very happy with the first and second sequences. After the 2nd attempt of sequence 2, I did the opening with 3 different handling moves. I’m not sure which one I liked better, but they were all fun to try! For the 3rd sequence, we (Nicole Davilli and another friend) could not figure out how to get the backside of 6. I have been tasked with finding out what the answer is, lol. After we all ran it and tried breaking it down using a threadle wrap, we considered maybe a backside push would work better (with training the skill of course). Ignore the ending where I made up my own numbers, haha. And please excuse the MAS in the background yelling about how it should be her turn instead of Nox’s.
Hi!!
>>If you see something that is definitely a new skill or hasn’t been done in flow or on course yet – break those out. You can train those separately, and tweak the course to simplify the lines to be able to run the bigger pieces in flow without asking for the harder challenges.
Makes perfect sense!!
>>Based on her questions here, this is a skill to isolate: getting commitment on a GO TUNNEL cue while you peel away, so the verbal overrides your motion
This is so hard for her without her getting BIG MAD!! I am going to have to start very small with this probably. I’m thinking drive to the tunnel with me running parallel and having a really yummy cookie at the end in her Lotus Ball (or placed). Then gradually run on a less parallel line to her. I need to work on the countermotion foundation games more as well! (reminder to self: send to MM while I leave; send to prop while I leave)
>>To not have to pull with motion as much, you can turn away a little but make a big connection and have your tandem turn hands pointed back to her – be watching her the entire time as you move her through it, to support the line.
What exactly are “tandem turn hands” supposed to look like? It feels very similar to a threadle wrap cue when I do it, but I’m not sure if that’s what I want. I struggle hard with rear crosses and tandem turns with Nox, which is funny because I was more likely to do that with my previous dogs than with her, and she’s way faster than my previous agility partners.
We did the Package 3 RYG sequences. We spent the most time on the first one. The first section was from earlier in the day, and then I went and ran errands, and we went back out once it had cooled off a bit. In total, we spent less than 15 minutes training, and that was split over 2 sessions hours apart. I am going to try very hard to be aware of how long each session is. She did great on the 2nd sequence!! The 3rd one was pretty good but had a couple of challenging spots, mostly for me, lol.
At the end of the video, there is about a minute of some slow mo clips of her jumping. I was trying to figure out if there is anything about my handling that is different when she jumps way too early vs much closer to the jump. She is a 16 inch jumper, but I trial and usually train at 12 because she has always had such difficulty with jumping cleanly. She never has issues with depth perception in the house (i.e. jumping on the couch or bed even when she is running, catching treats in mid-air), and she doesn’t always jump so early in agility. That leads to me believe it’s likely not a vision issue (although I’m certainly not a vet nor a jumping expert). I was not able to discern anything about me that is influencing her jumping. I was wondering if there was anything I’m doing that you can see that I might be missing.
Hi!!
So much good info from your last post! I will work on backside tunnel entries since they are clearly a skill we don’t have. I noticed she barked every time she approached that entry, even before there was a “refusal,” so that tells me she has big questions, and I don’t think she likes having questions, lol. As a matter of fact, I used to think that she was a dog who barked while she ran the whole course. I am now seeing that she actually is relatively quiet other than when she has questions. Quiet while running that is, not necessarily in the rest of her life. 🤣
>>Try to not circle around and send to the same jump again, because even though that sometimes works, she is getting savvy to it being basically the same thing as a stop plus it doesn’t give you time to adjust the handling.
I got a little stuck on this a few times as you’ll see in this new video. I tried not to stop, but my default to that appears to be circling back. I tried to keep in mind that it’s not a great strategy, but my feet were a little faster than my brain, so I ended up stopping mid-circle. So basically, I’m doing both things that you told me not to do at the same time! 😂😂 I’m working on it, lol.
>>Remember to not point forward of her to a jump – at 1:33, she was behind you and you pointed forward which turns the physical cues away from the jump so she got a little confused.
UGH! I’ve been trying to break this habit for a loooonnnggg time. It never works, so you’d think I’d stop, haha. Thank you for the reminder!
>>Bring a total of 5 treats with you, that is all 🙂 The rest are in the house. When the 5 treats are done? Session over!
I like the concept of this idea, but it would be challenging for me because I also have to play a lot of pattern games with her, which require random amounts of cookies. If I have pockets, I can put “agility cookies” in one pocket and “pattern games cookies” in the other. But… I don’t always have pockets. I did not take the whole bag of treats outside with me in this session, but I didn’t think of the different pockets thing after I ran. I like the timer idea, too. My watch was very much dead, so I did not try that in this session, but typically I have it when training, so I will add this idea in to our next session.
>>My new mission in life is to get people to watch their videos between each rep, ideally, and definitely between each session. The trend in agility is to work the pants off the dog then look at the video later that day or the next day.
I currently use a GoPro to video everything so all the files are in one place and not mixed in with a million pictures of my cats and Nox’s adorable fuzzy face. It’s nice for organization. It also has a wider lens and takes good videos. However, the screen is too small to see any detail, so I may have to switch to my phone for videos if I watch it after each rep.
>>And if you pull her off a line? Keep going rather than drop the reward and stop.
This is more important than breaking it down to teach her the elements, because once she has learned the course she is no longer giving feedback on the handling information.>>And on these big huge lines, placed rewards on all of these will help. You can place the rewards on the very first session rather than waiting to see where the trouble spots are, so she gets a lot of reinforcement for looking at the lines. (This was from the previous post you made)
Can you help me understand when I should break something down versus just running it all the way through so that she doesn’t memorize it? I guess the obvious answer is the teach the elements away from a sequence, such as with the threadle wrap that we struggled with the other day, but there are times when she seems fluent in a skill but on a particular sequence it’s difficult. Or it’s good in isolation but not in a sequence.
>>Running through the weaves is fine for now as you build up the layering – just remember you can’t do it int a trial LOL!
Haha, it isn’t something I’ve ever done before! I knew I was not going to get out of there in time to show her the line (and she was going to yell at me), so I just snuck right through there, lol.
On to the new video…
>>Before running it again, skip ahead to the walk through stuff in the most recent live class and in package 4 – and walk this course, with that in mind.I walked it (and videoed it) before I ran it again with the dog and tried to visualize where she would be. The first part of the video is my first attempt (after walking) and a little bit work on the tandem turn at 7. Then I added both the walk through video and the actual run (second attempt) on the same screen for comparison. I felt like I held the tandem turn at 7 for about the same amount of time (maybe it was slightly different?), but I was not in the same place. I had to support her more going into the tunnel, so I didn’t get to layer the weaves, but at least I didn’t run through them this time, lol. I did not give her clear enough signals on the actual run to get the backsides on that last big line, but I just went with the front sides and kept going.
Package 2- Jumpers 2, Round 2
