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Hi!
>>There are elements of it in all of the above 🙂 They are marked as ‘turn aways’ and backwards sends in the MaxPup classes.
Thanks for those key words! I would have spent a while looking for “threadle wraps” lol!
I tried the Jumpers Course 1 from Package 2 again. I think it went really well! I’m so proud of the distance she’s giving me and the HUGE lines she’s driving on (even if it’s not always consistent).
I tried to make all of the changes you mentioned: stayed with her to end of the weaves; gave turn verbal at the tunnel at 9 (more below…) using “out” at 11-12 instead of “go”; showing acceleration and closed shoulders at 11-13. I was super happy with it overall!! (<<You don’t need to run it clean>> <<Practice Makes Plasticity (Not Perfect)>> Trying to remember these words of wisdom!!). I very much made up my own course at the end, partly because I messed up my handling at a wrap and partly because I got it confused with the other course’s ending.
>>But if you are saying go and accelerating, and she misses it and curls off the line towards you – then you toss the reward back towards you – it can be confusing to her about what the behavior actually is. So keep accelerating forward and always throw the reward ahead of you.
I did NOT do this correctly a couple of times, but I realized it, so hopefully I will start to catch myself BEFORE I do it wrong. 🙂
It went great up until the tunnel entry at 10. I did get a really nice rep of this at the end of the video, though! In watching the 3 attempts in this video back-to-back, I can clearly see that she cannot see me giving her any kind of direction into the tunnel until she is past the entry. When I stayed at the entry and showed it to her, she got it no problem. Is that how I should handle it, or is there still a gap in our skills that I need to work on? It did put me a bit behind to show the next line, but I think think that if I had kept driving forward, she would have gotten the rest of it.
That’s really my only question about this video (I think most of our issues were connection problems, anyway, lol), so I hope it’s ok that I’m posting Jumpers 2, Round 1 as well. I do not plan to run the first course again, so I’d prefer feedback on the other course to try one more time tomorrow before I have to move it all to mow the grass. 🙂
This is jumpers 2. I am not proud of the first couple of minutes, haha. Those were not my best dog training moments. I don’t know why I continued the session as long as I did. We did go in the house and take a long break in the AC in the middle of it, so it was broken up a bit. Still, I was not breaking down the hard parts and rewarding strategically with placed rewards. I’m not sure how much actual learning took place here. As the intro states in the video, I have regrets, lol. At about 2:53 is the start of the next day’s session, and I think I did a much better job at attempting to break it down and reward better. It wasn’t perfect by any means, so I’d love some ideas on how to improve it before a final session on it tomorrow. The agility stuff stops at 4:43. The ending is just is us playing 1-2-3 (hard to hear my counting). I played it throughout this whole session (on day 2), and there was SOOO much less barking overall. I was looking back at my notes from previous posts, and I came across the one where you told me not to let her rehearse the barking in front of me in the in-between moments (so much to remember 🤪). Feel free to skip that part. 🙂
There are some great suggestions in this list! I would add “Firework” by Katy Perry. It gets stuck in my head every time I hear it, lol.
Also, I have to say that is a hilarious typo in the title for this thread! 🤣🤣
Hi!
>>The Threadle wrap is all about that shoulder turn away, then hands turn on the flat, then hands send back to the jump (but you don’t need to turn and face the jump there).
So for the wraps, I should not be turning with her toward the wing with my feet after she’s turned towards the jump? I am sure there is a video somewhere of you teaching wraps. I just need to find it and go back to the foundation on this one! I can’t remember if it was in a webinar on verbals or perhaps in the Max Pup self-study class that I never finished. 😝
We did the first jumpers course from Package 2. I broke it down and started with the two lines I thought might be difficult. She rocked the first one, no problem! The second spot was harder, but I think I was trying to leave too early. We got it in isolation but then it was an issue when I put it all together. After the failed attempt in the big sequence, we took a break and came back to it the next day. We did finally get it!
The other spot that was difficult was getting 9-10. She took the off-course jump a couple of times (but I kept going, lol!), and it was hard for her to get the tunnel entry when she did not take that jump. I did a quick rep of it at the end of our session, and she got it nicely. I was past the tunnel entry that time. I’m not sure if my position is what got her through that correctly or if it was something I was cueing differently. Maybe I was blocking her view of the tunnel entry? I think that would have gotten me down the line faster to get #12 better had we kept going, too.
Overall, I was very happy with how much distance she gave me!!
Hi!
This second round for the Live class (from Package 2) was more of a training session for threadle wraps than focus on sequencing. I did not run each sequence 4 times, so my video is in a bit different format. After a brief warm-up on the slice and the wrap, we were able to do the first sequence the first time very nicely! I took some time to train the opening of sequence 2 (see below for questions!) before we ran the whole thing once. Finally, we did 2 tries on the 3rd sequence. I hope that’s ok!
I would love feedback on the wrap training specifically. After a couple of tries where she got the wrap but it wasn’t really fluent, I reviewed your feedback from the first round again and tried to really focus on turning my shoulders away from the jump while letting her see some decel. It was so counterintuitive for me to turn away from the wrap, but it definitely helped! However, we then got some big loopy turns. I made a note in the video about that, but I wanted to elaborate on my question here. It’s getting the job done, but if I keep practicing it like that, am I going to be able to exaggerate less as she gets more understanding of the body and verbal cues, or am I going to be stuck overhandling threadle wraps with the loopy turn?
Hi!!
>>One thing to remember is to always be connected and watching her
So it turns out the secret to agility is… CONNECTION! 😂😂😂 The word “connect” or “connection” has been used 55 times on this thread so far (no, I didn’t count them manually, haha). It’s such a simple concept, yet it’s sooo hard to do, lol. I tried really hard to watch her fuzzy little face in the sequences from the Week 2 Live class! There were a few places where I was not successful, but I at least felt like I was making a more conscious effort and really thinking about it.
Our biggest struggle was with the threadle wraps. We haven’t had threadle slices in our toolbox for all that long (the last few months really), and the wrap is even more new for us, so I’m not surprised that it was difficult. I did think she knew threadles a bit better than what she was showing me, though. I did the warm-ups and that seemed to go pretty well, but once I added more motion and speed, it was a lot harder for her. I know some of it was handler error, but my goal is not have to do much “handling” for the final behavior. After this session, I thought about it and realized that although we worked a lot on the threadle cues (both the slice and wrap), they were not done with a lot of speed or motion from me, so I skipped some steps before trying to add them in to sequences. This was super helpful information!!
I’m starting to be a little more fluent with not stopping every time something goes wrong. Again, not perfect, but improving! 🙂
Live Week 2- Warm-Up and all 3 Sequences
Hi!
>>I have a set of MAD channels, they are really nice!
Good to know! I would definitely prefer to get channels rather than try to use straight poles to minimize the impact on her body. I will probably do some work on this skill in the meantime, but I may have to wait to do much until I get some channels.
>>Separately, on a course with the DW there – replace the weaves with a straight tunnel, to teach her the concept of “go allllll the way out there and do a thing”.
I actually thought about that as option! But I still needed to run the other course, and it was too hot to move a tunnel across the yard, lol. I will use this set up at some point to work on teaching distance. I also like the suggestion of using the same set up as the RYG challenge with the barrier.
>>On the full run – Nice opening! That looked smooth and fast!
Thank you!! I was super happy with that section.
We did the 2nd course today. The first section is us practicing the Find Your Face game. I had done some work with it in the Got F.A.C.E class I did with Bobbie, but I completely forgot about it until the webinar yesterday. I wanted to see where we were with the game since it’s been a while. She did great when I was just slowly moving, but when I added a jump, she got a bit frustrated, so I know we need to work that skill away from excitement and movement for the time being. You can skip to 1:14 if you want to jump to the actual coursework. 🙂
Technically the “first” attempt is our second. The first one was just a video of the sky and my face when I was messing with my tripod, lol. Apparently I turned the camera on by accident and when I thought I was videoing the run, I actually turned it off. Anyways, you’ll see the “first” run followed by a breakdown of the hard part (tunnel under the dog walk and getting out to the weaves). From this, I learned that I need to work on simply sending to a reward. I have not yet worked on countermotion using a Manners Minder, but I think that will be hard if she won’t drive to a Lotus Ball on the ground ahead of me when I’m going in the same direction. We did one final run at the end. I don’t anticipate doing a 2nd round of this course since we have lost so much time due to bad weather and Nox being sick. (Trying to decide what to move on to next and what to cut!)
Hi again!
Thankfully Nox got over her kennel cough pretty quickly, so we are back it! We were thwarted by storms yesterday when it finally got cool enough to train, but we finally got some practice in today.
As you saw from my post on Facebook, I am looking into options for channel weaves. I have also reached out to find out about some prices from MAD Agility since I’ve heard they make a pretty good set. I would love to see the steps you mentioned on how to start that training with Nox.
In the meantime, I tried adding gates onto my weaves to see if that made it any easier for Nox to stay in while I left to get to the other side of the dog walk. I had varying degrees of success. I think I need to practice this without the dog walk in the picture so I have more options for gradually making it harder with increased distance both laterally and being behind her. I can often get a nice lateral fade, but turning in the other direction and being that far away was really hard!
Week 2- Standard Course 1, Round 2
That all makes perfect sense about the weaves. Unfortunately, Nox was trained on straight weaves using gates (small garden gates set perpendicular by each pole on alternating sides). I know this is a bit “old school” and it’s not how I will train my next dog, but it’s what what was recommended to be by a respected local trainer. It did work pretty well. Nox learned to weave in a relatively short time with reasonable independence. However, it certainly had its drawbacks, and I have just found another one, lol.
I do not have currently have access to 2x2s or channels. It is something I would like to invest in for my next dog, though. Would it make sense to look into buying them now and training Nox how to do them on “easy mode” so I can use them as you suggested, or would that likely be really confusing to her at this point? Regardless of the answer to that question, which method is your preference to start a dog on?
Hi!
Yes, kennel cough does suck!! Thankfully, she’s mostly better. She doesn’t cough unless she starts running around and barking a lot, which as you know, is kind of her thing, lol, but even then it’s minimal.
I started working on layering parts of the standard course 1 from week 2 before she got sick. We did 1-4 several times and then did 1-6 all together. I think that part went well overall.
We had started working on the weave section, and I thought I had lost all of the video I took except for one short session, but it turns out I actually had all of it! The part I’d like the most help with in this video is how to progress with the weaves. Since I couldn’t run the whole course to submit, I included most of what we did with the weaves. I believe this was from 3 separate sessions, all relatively short. I think that if I keep running parallel to her while in the weaves, she would have a much easier time staying in them. She can also sometimes do them while I am standing still behind her, but I cannot always get her to commit to them when I’m behind her. I don’t think she’s going to be ready for me to layer the dog walk and get the weaves in the next week or so, and I’d like to move on to something else once she’s able to run. With that in mind, I would like to improve this skill, so any ideas would be most welcome! I will probably attempt course 2 before I reset to something else, but if we have the same issue, I won’t spend a lot of time on it right now unless other things from camp build on it.
Hi!
I had started working on the standard course by breaking down the layering elements into pieces. We got through the first section pretty well and I was going to tackle the send to the weaves next. Unfortunately, Nox came down with kennel cough a few days ago, so we can’t do any more work until she’s better. It seems to be a mild case so I’m hopeful she will bounce back quickly. She wants to run and play, but she starts coughing, so I really need her to get better fast, lol.
>>It is 1000% fine to get it on the first try, give yourself a high five, and NOT repeat it.
Does this idea apply to just longer sequences or also to skills (e.g. training a wrap or a backside)?
Thanks for clearing that up about how/where to put the Lotus Ball and how to fade it. Super helpful info!
I tried to use more motion in the subsequent reps (once I remembered after the first couple, lol). It definitely seemed to help.
Here is our video!
I know these sequences are for building the skill of layering, and I wouldn’t exactly call Nox proficient with that yet. Do you think I can go ahead and start working on the big courses? (I had already set it last week when I set the RYG sequence.) I’m thinking it might be a good time to use my MM and Lotus Ball in some select spots if we run into trouble. I can keep working on the RYG challenge if you think that would be a better use of time for us.
>>Practice Makes Plasticity (Not Perfect)
I like that phrasing!
>>Yes, the brain is a crazy creature!!!
To which brain are you referring?? I presume not the cat-sized one in your gut? 🤣 That’s so weird…
>>I don’t think it is more thoughtful… I think the next rep is more cautious, which is different. She added strides and was more careful and slower.
Yeah… I definitely don’t want slow and cautious. But the alternative of fast and scary isn’t appealing either. Ugh!
>>So if there is a jumping effort that goes totally awry, you don’t need to acknowledge it by stopping or marking. If it needs to be fixed for a safety reason, you can do a couple more jumps with more connection, reward, then go back and as you reset the jump – think about adjusting the handling to be able to give more motion and connection support
I will do my best to add this to the list of things to ignore and just keep running!! 🙂
Hi!!
I was hoping to get through all of part 1 for the Raise Your Game Challenge 2 before submitting a video, but at the rate of these storms, we might never finish it, lol. We also ran into some challenges, so I figured I should go ahead and get some feedback before continuing on anyway.
Most of the distance work we’ve done was the little bit that we did in CAMP last year. We’ve been focused on a million other skills, so it’s kind of been put on the back burner. This includes distance needed for layering. Not surprisingly, Nox does not love it when I don’t show her the thing, and she does not seek out obstacles on her own, so this is HARD for her.
We got through the sequence where you turn the dog away from you at 5. Somehow we got it on the first try once we put it all together, but then we struggled repeating it. I watched the video with the Manners Minder you linked in your last response, but my batteries were dead, so I couldn’t try that method (I have replaced them now!). I did use her Lotus Ball, though. I had it more in the middle of her path instead of tucked into the wing. I didn’t think she’d find it there on her own since it doesn’t make noise to draw her attention, which I didn’t think would help me keep her on her line. I also think it would create frustration and barking until I pointed it out to her. I do see the purpose of not having it super visible, and perhaps this is a skill that is missing from our training that I can work on. I only had the toy there for 2 reps before going back to a thrown reward. It seemed to help her understand to stay out on the line.
Is the method I used ok to keep using, or do I need to make changes? I also thought about moving the barrier closer, but since the Lotus ball, worked, I didn’t do that yet. Which is your preference for helping the dog?
Here is our video:
This is the video from the Live Class from Package 1. I included almost the whole training session with only cutting out a couple of reps on reminding her what a threadle looked like on the balance rep of sequence 2. I was super happy with her work here!
I did stop a couple of times for crazy bar knocking. We are working on jump skills still, but one of the things that seems to be making her more thoughtful about jumping is stopping when she plows into it; there is no punishment, just communication that we are stopping and sometimes asking her to sit or down so she doesn’t turn into a barking tornado. I don’t typically stop for just a regular knocked bar (probably handling mistakes), only the ones that look dangerous. On the next attempt, I find that she does a much better job with keeping bars up and not taking off so early. I also often have to reset the bar for safety since it may be several feet away from the jump when she does this early take off thing.
I am not an expert on this at all, so if you think it is completely detrimental to what we’re working on to reduce frustration, I will consider changing my method, but as I said, I’m seeing improvement.
I’m hoping to work on the Raise Your Game Challenges this weekend for package 2, so I need the weather to cooperate! They are calling for possible rain and storms for as many days as you can see on the forecast! Don’t they know I have important CAMP things to do??
As always, so much wisdom here, lol!
>> (Also, when a terrier does that same exact behavior, no one says: oh look, herding! LOL!)
That is a great point…
>>I heard a really good webinar today from Dr. Tim Lewis about the biology of reactivity
If that was the one put on by Behavior Vets, I was thinking of going to that, but then I forgot about it, lol. I wonder if I can still get the recording… I’ll have to look into it.
>>You will probably see better value develop for tunnels if the rewards appear right a the exit.
I did a workshop with Maddie on Wednesday at LUDS, and one of the things we did when I was having commitment issues on some jumps, specifically wraps where I was decel’ing, was put her Lotus Ball near the wing of the jump where she was landing. It made a BIG difference with just a couple of reps. I will be adding this in where we have issues in sequences but also just to build value for obstacles as you have mentioned here.
>>Try to live by the 2 failure rule, even in handling and even if you are training on different days: if she fails twice, even if it is not in a row – change something to get success and then move on.
How have I misinterpreted this rule so badly for the last 2 years, lol?? I thought it was within the same training session and without changing anything. I was changing things and doing it on different days, and there were other things I was able to reward her for, so I was keeping the overall reinforcement ratio high. Apparently that’s not what you meant! I will consider this in our future sessions.
>>You don’t need to run it clean
I need to write this down and read it before every training session! I have been a perfectionist since I was a kid. I would do my homework and spend hours on it trying to get it just right. If I didn’t know how to do a math problem, I would keep working at it until I could figure it out, or I would feel like a failure despite the other 25 problems I had done correctly. This was pressure that I put on myself (not from my parents), and although perseverance is a good trait to have, it can be a problem, too. In one of the sequences from the live class, we did a really good job except for a knocked bar. I actually considered running it again so it could be “perfect” for my video until I thought about it for a second and realized how ridiculous that was. Thank you for pointing this out to me. It’s such a simple thing, but brains are complicated, so it’s really not always simple, lol.
