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Have not taken any other courses. This is the first, recommended by my agility instructor.
With both my dogs, that are so food driven, eating the food absorbs their whole attention. I would much rather play without food. The only option I see is to “play, settle”, one time, when working with food, then I’m done. Settling or bringing out the relaxation mat when I’m done playing and that’s it. If I can’t modulate without food, then it won’t work with my dogs. I actually quit a class that only used food to train, because it wouldn’t work with my dogs and they gave me no other option.
Why can’t I play with him and then have him lie down and pet him, scratch him or something like that?
I enjoy working in agility with my dogs, we are not competitive and do it for fun with our dogs. The training and care expense for our dogs we can handle. However, continuing this with more vets and specialists isn’t economically feasible for us. Especially when the vet saw no severe consequences and the subluxation was minor and the dog never showed discomfort or pain during his manipulations.
Regarding week 1 play, settle, play now that he knows food is coming to his relaxation towel, he won’t play. Normally a game of tug of war, chase or fetch would be fun, but treats are way more fun. He just stands or sits there and waits for the towel to come down and the food. Now what? That’s one reason I didn’t used to train with food, because that’s their total focus and I can’t get them to do anything else if they know food is coming. With my agility trainer we tried the “manner’s minder” and that was a total failure. Both my dogs took off after that whenever they thought they had done something correctly without being given permission. We couldn’t get them to work if it was around. Now we mix up when they do and don’t get treats. Don’t know if that’s confusing for them or not.
After I wrote above and reread your modulation paper, maybe I misunderstood? When you said put the relaxation mat out, did you mean with or without food?
I jump him at “select”, 20”. He should be jumping 24”
The vet said: “No lameness during visit. Videos provided by owner showed intermittent and subtle times when Grizzly appears hesitant to place his right hind paw when walking slowly. No lameness observed in videos. Radiographs of right stifle and pelvis/hips were normal. Grizzly stands with rifles and hooks i a more extended position than average. Comfortable with manipulation of all joint i pelvic limbs. No racial drawer or tibial thrust in stifles. No effusion or medial buttress palpated. Able to subluxation L patella. R patella stable. No abnormal findings in hips, tari, or paws. Normal CP in pelvic limbs.”
Assessment: “Nearly normal exam. L patella not likely clinically significant. Gait observed by trainer likely normal for patient’s confirmation.”
Just saw an ortho vet. He gave grizzly a clean bill of health. He said that grizzly doesn’t move like other dogs but there’s nothing wrong with the way he moves and his joints look just fine, x-ray looks good. So now we need to figure out why Grizzly insists sniffing all the time and gets so distracted.
Just now reading your above comments and will do. But before reading your comments, we took him out today and took some videos (which I spliced together) of both dogs for comparison. The video regarding his hips is fairly long but is interesting watching the way he moves. I can see what you’re talking about regarding his trot is fluid, but his walk is stiff and his jumping he kicks out his hips as he starts the jump.
I then went back and looked at some videos I had taken for the UKI Home Trials and I don’t think I’m see the same issues or at least not as pronounced. One video is from last December, February & March. See what you think.
Yes, I understand what you’re saying regarding the previous training. I had always been taught, once they knew what to do, to give a sharp leash correction when not doing it the first time followed by praise. It definitely does seem to be an issue with Grizzly. Unfortunately, I’m trying to break over 50 years of old training that I learned and still was learning as recently as first training Grizzly in obedience. My current agility instructor is ready to “shoot” me because she knows I was training him wrong and she is now trying to fix me and Grizzly, which hasn’t been easy. I keep forgetting to go with a softer approach with him. I also use to never use treats and am still not convinced that is always the correct method. For my Bear, he completely loses focus if he knows there are treats waiting and Grizzly is not much better. So my Agility instructor is having me switch it up when they receive the treats.
Thanks for your thoughts and let me know what you see in these videos. The one with the hips, I’m going to show to a vet when I can get. These days it is NOT easy. They are all so busy.
I will try to take some other videos tomorrow. As for his walk or run, what I’ve noticed or rather thought was that he never lost his puppy wiggle or gait. And he still sits like a puppy. He has always run wide whether he’s running slow or fast, whereas his older brother, lost that wiggle and runs and sits like an adult dog. Grizzly has never seemed to mature out of puppy behavior nor even his gait or at least that has been my opinion.
Not sure if there is anyone in our area specializing in dog sports (I’ll ask my Vet), but I have taken my other BMC to Colorado State University because of an Enhanced Physiological Tremor diagnosed there. I will call them on Monday and see if they have anyone that can see him later in December though their website says they’re 2-3 months out. We’ll be visiting Colorado at Christmas time.
I video’d Grizzly at Relaxation tonight. This is typical of him. He keeps his head down and waits for the treats to come. He doesn’t really change much of his demeanor that I can see.
I’ll work on the other videos tomorrow.
https://youtu.be/ZOIshAIdXgUBobbie,
I’m guessing you couldn’t access my last training video? I was hoping for suggestions. I don’t feel like I’m making progress with Grizzly in the distraction/sniffing dept.I am keeping a snuffle mat in his kennel while I work with my other dog and that is keeping Grizzly calmer in the kennel.
When should I start to see any change in Grizzly in regards to the relaxation technique? Is there ever a dog that it doesn’t work for and consequently pointless to continue? Grizzly thinks it’s great to get yummy treat for 10 minutes and not have to do anything for them.
“Place” on an elevated bed is common in our home, so not sure that helps with anything.
I am working on everything. I was able to rent the facility today where I have classes and took a couple of videos. One on the Shadow Handling and the other on a practice run, which as usually Grizzly stops to sniff. Before I ran him, he was in the kennel with his snuffle mat, then I did the Shadow Handling and then the run. I’ve combined both videos. Together they’re only 2:33 minutes long.
https://youtu.be/DmQiUOHd_hU
Ok will try. My agility instructor is out of town for a couple of weeks and I’ll need to figure out a way to film by myself, but will work on it.
Did I miss something or not understand? You talk about pattern games but I don’t understand what games you are talking about. I’m working on the shadow handling, but is there something else?
From Amazon. This is my favorite because I can stuff it with treats and place the frisbee on top and take with me and the treats won’t fall out until I need them.
Sorry, been out of commission for a few days.
Unfortunately I don’t have any videos. I delete after I’ve reviewed them, since a lot of times it’s my error. Guess I should have kept them.
I’ve never had a problem with any dog I’ve owned (once no longer a puppy) leaving them in the car uncrated when it’s safe weather-wise. I’ve just always kept them with me at trial so they’re handy, but I can try it next time.
Snuffle mats–when I signed up for the class and it listed all the items necessary and one of those was a snuffle mat . . . I had to asked my instructor what that was. I bought one and just this past week, during practice while Grizzly was kenneled waiting for his turn my instructor told me to place it in the kennel with him. Wow! What a difference that made. Typically when it was Bear’s turn, Grizzly would have a fit for a few minutes and disturb us with his barking. There was peace!
I’m going to try using it more often like you suggested in the handout and I just ordered another one for Bear, who doesn’t appear to really need it, but he has enjoyed it.
Have never tried to keep him in the car during a trial, since he doesn’t like being away from me. But I will try next time and see if there is a difference.
Regarding “crating”– I don’t crate in my car, the dogs are left in the backseat in a hammock and are happy there. As far as who goes first in his Therapy job, I always see the Girl’s units first and then the Boy’s units. Since all the kids want to see both dogs, I have to alternate and I have to work with the facility’s schedule as is. So, no choice in always bring Grizzly in first of the Boy’s would never get to see him.
I don’t have a lot of videos and unfortunately, the ones I have don’t show his “classic” roll at the start. I’m uploading two video, (forgot to mention earlier about the “nose”) both show him with nose to the ground throughout the run which makes him slow and not finish quick enough. In the arena with dirt, that’s a horse arena. The facility with grass is where he trains and he still sniffs. Notice shortly after he starts and there is a bit of confusion on mine and his part, his nose is on the ground and he attempts to roll in the middle of the run but I manage to get him going before he does it.
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Regarding “Thresholds”—Grizzly is a “Velcro” dog, so that when I leave home or kennel him at a trial, he is unhappy, whereas his half brother just curls up and goes to sleep. Examples:
1. When I leave home and can’t take the dogs with me, (they know when I’m leaving) they both try to zoom past me into the garage, so I don’t forget to put them in the car. If they can’t go I either have to return them to the house or block their exit (not always easy with a 80+ & 90+ lb dogs). I always give them a treat. If it’s Bear, he gobbles it down, but if it’s Grizzly (they are both “foodie’s), he won’t take the treat. If for some reason I can only take Bear and have to leave Grizzly home alone, that treat is still there, uneaten, when I return. I’m assuming Grizzly is “Over Threshold”, but what else can I do?
2. If we’re at a trial, they both have to be kenneled and I always try to kennel them with me. Bear curls up and goes to sleep and Grizzly is at attention almost the whole time. If I have to leave to check the board for example, Grizzly is watching. This also means he’s not resting for his event either.
3. They are both Therapy Dogs, but I can’t take them in the facility at the same time. Because the facility’s schedule can’t be changed at the Residential Treatment Center, I alternate each week of which dog I take in first. The teenagers (I visit with Girls first & then the Boys units) want to see both dogs, so it’s not an option to always take Grizzly in first. When Grizzly can’t go in first, he gets anxious again. If he can go in first, then when I return him to the car to get Bear, he is so mentally drained from the visits, that there is no problem.
In all of the above examples, he has never been destructive to my things (thank goodness) and eventually appears to calm down, but he doesn’t rest until I’m back.
I don’t know how to destress him when I have to no choice to leave him and maybe you’re addressing this in a future lesson.
Regarding “Focus & Drive”—Whether training or trialing, Grizzly is very sensitive to corrections and I’m trying to not use the “no” word. However, in training you have to correct the wrong move and teach him the correct way, but he shuts down and loses all drive when he figures out he’s done it wrong.
He definitely can’t focus at the start-line nor listen. He loses it and wants to take off immediately if he’s in a “sit-stay”, which precludes me from getting a few feet ahead of him. If I’m too firm in that “sit-stay” (and I usually point at him and glare), he loses focus by looking around or rolling on the ground and scratching his back (something he does normally in our backyard, but I’m wondering at the trial if it’s a stress reliever), or he immediately takes off without me telling him to “go”. He is so different from his brother Bear, who is super obedient, but has no motivation to move at the start line until he’s darn good and ready and then sometimes at his own “Winnie the Pooh” pace.
If any of the above is addressed later in the class, let me know and I’ll wait.I’ve tried to upload a video to YouTube with my first attempt at Relaxation with Grizzly. I know you said don’t expect results on the first try but not sure anything positive happened other than he eat 1/2 bag of treat.
When I look back on the video I don’t see any changes to him. My dogs have always been taught to wait for their food or treat, so that’s why I had to tell him it was okay in the beginning of the video. If I don’t give him the treat fast enough he paws me for more. I don’t see that changing for him. What am I doing wrong?
Hoping I did this link correctly.
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