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Hi Mary,
I am SO SO SO SORRY that these were missed. My page must not have updated last I checked because I don’t remember seeing these on my page at all. So I super apologize for the delay.
Video One – This is looking better. Yes, you did slow down but you are still running at very inconsistent speeds. So in your next session remember to keep moving forward AT THE SAME SPEED then entire time you are asking for the threadle. You are also slowing down so much when you are still on the landing side of the jump that you are cuing a threadle rear cross. That is making the dog think that you are going to stay on the landing side of the jump. So you have to keeo moving forward to cue the slice (which is what you want). And you are still moving away from the jump . little when you are cuing the threadle. So put a line (or a jump pole) on the ground that you can use as a marker fot where your path should be.
Video Two – Yes, that is sort of what I was looking for. Just keep moving faster to the other side so she really knows you want the slice.
Video Three – With the tunnel threadles you are facing the wrong direction when asking for the tunnel threadle. You should be facing towards the exit of the tunnel (the direction that she is running) and moving towards there from when you are cuing the threadle. You should NOT be moving or stepping towards the entrance of the tunnel at all. You are doing more of a forced front cross into the tunnel entrance rather than a threadle. So just keep your body and shoulders facing the direction that she is running cue the threadle and move with consistent motion towards the exit.
She is such an awesome dog! Everything is coming a long really well. She is doing perfect. It is really just fixing a few body position things for you 🙂
Oh no, I am SO SORRY I missed this somehow.
Yes, that is correct. If you are giving a threadle (jump or tunnel) you should never use the obvious side verbal to cue the obstacle. The threadle verbal by definition should tell the dog to come in and take the obstacle. I also think it gets very very confusing for the dogs if we are giving both verbals.
Yes both are useful. I think if I am hearing this correctly you are talking about the difference between a threadle rear cross and a threadle slice.
Take a look at the diagrams in lesson 2 where it says threadle slice vs threadle rearcross.
Threadle slices are easier to teach in the beginning because it is easier for the dog to commit to the tunnel vs a threadle rear the have a tendency to look at us more so it is better if we train slices first and really encourage the dog to be driving towards the tunnel without looking at us. Then add in threadle rears later once they understand how to find the tunnel on their own.
So yes, the answer to your questions is yes, both of those types of threadles are very useful. Take a look at the diagram and make sure that we are talking about the same thing. But I think we are 🙂 Let me know if you have any other questions 🙂
Yes that looks a lot better!! Make sure that you keep your toes facing forward and when you start adding motion your are just moving forward.
Also keep putting your hand up (as your physical cue for the threadle) and pause and then give the verbal for the threadle. At 1:00 he almost went for the threadle off of just the physical cue (super normal when they are learning) it is just very important that they learn to specifically key into that verbal so I will often put my hand up start motioning it around then pause then give the verbal. You went back to reset him. If he does that again but then stops realizing he shouldn’t have gotten up continuing the proofing from there, give the verbal and then reward (but not JP) does that make sense? You can also start asking him for other verbals occasionally like down, right/left to make sure that he is listening not just anticipating what you are going to say.
Now when you are adding motion – make sure that you are leaving him in motion, not stopping to “set up”, but just continuing to keep walking forward when you are asking him to do the threadle. Rather than lead out, stop, and go.
You are really starting to get some great independence already! Continue changing his position and moving him farther and farther to the right until it is a pretty tough threadle. Looking great!
Yeah I completely understand what you are talking about. And 100% agree with your approach to training the threadles/anything that requires a lot of thinking. Yes, stick with that plan and keep putting the threadles in as much as you can when she is happy and confident.
You were doing really good moving away from the jump and letting her find it by herself!
Keep up the good work! Great session!
Hi Mary!
That is a fantastic start 🙂
Yes, ‘in in’ is a great verbal for this.
Yes, you mentioned in your video that a few times you were stepping backwards to help her “come in” you are correct. You want to always be moving forward when you are asking for the behavior. This will put pressure on the dogs line to the jump that you are threadling and that will start to build understanding that the dog must stay committed to the threadle verbal/cue and come in and take the jump.
Because she is a little more advanced you can also try sending her to the cone and starting (your position) closer to the cone with her so that you are asking for the threadle from the same side of the cone and moving to the other side of the jump.
The ones that you did at 0:35 were the best ones for your motion. Many of the times you are stepping back into the jump to help her go to the jump. Try not to help her find the jump at all. It is HER job to find the jump not yours to find it for her. So try starting super slow in the beginning with your motion but not stepping towards the jump to help at all.
Wow that is looking great! When you are rewarding her keep running forward in the direction that you are going and have her chase you down for the reward. Right now you are stopping and turning towards her by running away she will learn to run faster to get you for the reward and she will learn to always run in the directions that you are (parallel to your line) as fast as she can after the threadle. Keep gradually moving her over to the right or left to make the threadle more challenging. Make sure that you are not using your motion to help her come in at all. In the video you are doing a great job of keeping your shoulders facing the direction your are headed so keep that up. As she gets better you can start closer and closer to where she is starting so you are adding more and more motion from you as well.
Yes, I think it is a challenge to go from body to verbals for many people. But trust me, it gets easier and you will love having a reliable threadle 🙂
Oh those neighbor dogs are so helpful aren’t they…. I have had several of those helpers as well 😉 But it is good for distraction work.
Yes, I would use a platform that she could go jump up on as her sit stay for now. I completely can relate to the challenge of small dog training and picking and choosing what is important at that time. My small dog does not have a sit stay right now either 😉
For the cone – you can work on that separately by teaching her to run around the cone with you taking one step towards it and then even starting to add moving away from it so she learns to stay committed to wrapping the cone. It goes a long way in commitment training for coursework as well 😉
You are helping a lot right now with your position and motion. I think for him lets work on all the angles from a sit stay for the first couple sessions. THis will help get the behavior better understood with less motion/speed in the beginning. I think speed is going to be challenging for him (and all dogs, it is hard 😉 ). So that will take the speed out of it in the beginning. So have him start from a sit stay working on all the different angles all the way around the clock.
Now for you, your shoulders/body are helping him a lot by turning into him when you are asking for the behavior. So you are also doing to lead out with no motion in the beginning and ask for the behavior facing in the direction that you are going. You should not turn towards him to help him at all. Then same thing you are going to start varying your position as well. If he likes the MM (or a static toy) this could be a good time to use it to get him look more for the jump with less handler focus but that might make it more difficult for him too.
You are correct! I do that on purpose to make sure that they understand the cue. I also think it helps with independence a lot if they learn that right from the beginning. This is all when I am trying to add more motion. In the beginning I start how you said you were positioning yourself on the jump with no motion then I gradually add motion and add steps coming from the other side of the jump. I want the dog to feel my pressure of moving into the jump but understand that even though they are feeling pressure their job is to still commit to the non obvious side
Yeah I can totally understand it being challenging motivating her in the yard. So keep doing lots
When you are trying to work on you leaving the jump do it VERY VERY slow in the beginning. You can also do a few reps with a static toy on the ground (if she will work for that) but I don’t like using it as a lure for too long. Make sure that when you are starting to move away from the jump you are doing it from the beginning of when you are asking for the threadle right now you are veering off after she is taking the jump. We want to make sure she understands to find them jump herself. But like I said, add that stuff in really slow in the beginning.
Hey Janice!
For the back jumping – I usually switch to using a small jump bar like a weave pole. This will make it less likely that she will back jump and as she starts understanding committing and seeking out the far wing then you can bring back the longer bar. You could also do a bit of work on rewarding her for slicing jumps (not in a theadle scenario). So sett her up infront of the jump at a slice angle and ask her to jump and reward her for committing to the far wing/standard.
So when you are asking for the threadle it is really important that you don’t turn into her to help her come in. The cool thing about training threadles this way is that you won’t need to turn in to help or help with your motion/position at all but it is really important that in the beginning we are not teaching her to come in off of your body cues rather than learning the verbal. So anytime you are asking for the threadle make sure that your shoulders and b ody is ALWAYS facing the direction that you are going not turning towards her then back to the jump. You may need to start with her in a sit stay and with you with very little motion working around the clock then adding the motion of the wing back into the picture.
This is looking really good! Instead of rewarding her in position now you are going to only reward after the jump so she starts to look for it more by herself. You can also try to gradually fade how much you are helping her find the jump (which you do start doing that after a few reps. Just make sure that you are gradually helping less and less so that it is really becoming independent.
I don’t think she is quite ready for the wing stage yet. As you are really having to help her come in with the help of your positioning and motion and rewarding her from hand instead of after the jump. Although after a few repititions she does pick it up (or remembers) her job. Really quickly you want to only celebrate AFTER she takes the jump not for coming in because we want her to understand her job is to find the non obvious side of the obstacle and she technically doesn’t complete her job until she takes the non obvious side of the jump.
With all that being said, she had a few reps that were PERFECT. Where you really werent helping her with your motion and she got the thereadle brilliantly. SO make sure that you are not helping with your motion AT ALL. You want to keep your motion as consistent as possible and so if you need to make it easier all you are doing is moving slower not stopping, waiting for her to come in, then moving towards the jump. It is okay in some of these reps if she makes a mistake (obviously we don’t want too many) but I always want you to be treating this like you are moving forward and it is HER choice to come in or not.
Gradually keep moving that wing farther and farther over as you progress. But your motion is still always the same. The other thing that you can do to progress is start making your motion move away from the jump bar little by little so that she is starting to learn to find it by herself and look for it without your help. That will probably be tricky for her so just take that part super slow.
Good work!!
