[beverley thomson]

Because scent is linked to memory, I think using it in situations where you can guarantee great success and very happy feelings will be most important. We are looking for an easy way to carry a happy conditioned response into a new environment. So it is not really about using a scent to attach to a skill, especially when the skill is new and being trained as that might involve frustration which we definitely do not want to attach.

Yes that was my dimemma – Fusion I would like to attach it to her being in a happy focused state of mind training and use the scent to help her keep that in the ring. My thought with the weaves was that she struggles with these in the ring and was thinking that use of a scent might help her to link with her more calm state in training (not calm but just a link) to help reframe what happens in the ring. To do this I need to use the scent when we are training in that happy confident connected state . BUT i tend to train both dogs in the same session. So if I apply a scent to me to help attach it in fusions mindvFusion is working on rehearsing listening and happy focus in that session rather than working on harder skills or new onesso all good.
BUT In synch is still in chaos and I dont want to associate the smell with her training as she is in learning mode and chaos still happening but the scent will linger (dogs can smell so well) so was trying to work out how not to link smell for In synch but link for fusion. So was wondering how – so was thinking train fusion second so put scent on after traned IN Synch or put in plastic sealed bag and pull out when train.

Did a wait session on porch so lots distractions but no jump . added in a find my face- I knew she took a while to appear before me watching video I can see her thinking what the f… so need to do with less disconnect. She started to do middle here and was lining up better – her toy was on the seat and she new it which she was thinking about. plus when I was tossing the treat- it kept going down gaps ( trouble with tiny treats).

Second session took out to a jump.
The toy plus a jump was harder and took ages to get a toy release. Then sort of okay. I thought the toy was making it too hard so put it away. But then had trouble settling her again – miscommunication as to whether she was to take the jump or not and miles too long I should have stopped MUCH earlier rather than trying to get her back. . Learnings Should have stopped after first bits of success with the toy and middle and following hand is okay when no jump but when jump present these behaviours are not strong enougn yet.

[beverley thomson]

Okay here is video frommy repeats of bits of set 1. afew mistakes – mine still. but parts actually felt like we were flying (will she was)- okay I still late but feel as if she is starting to respond. starts still need alot of work but starting to release the toy easier- I gave her a free run with toy in middle as felt she needed to realise steam. will get more distane at end of week but quite like that she is comfortable these distances and staying at high arousal with less boiling over. when go to bigger distances will make easier too.

okay on different note.
using scents
1. as dogs more sensitive to scent (although wonder when cant find smelly treats LOL) shouldI train In synch first as her behaviours are still green and not opolished. and then train Fusion with behaviours like weaves she can d in training. If I train fusion first then scentlikely to be attacjed to the chaos that still happening for In synch or am I oer thinking or perhaps use a cloth like they do for scents and put in a sealed bag. sorry my mind is going down rabbit holes working out how to try and utilise.

2. this thing about unexpected rewards to maximum dopamine ie one armed bandits
I understand how this works in isolation but how do we fit this in with frequent rewards and reinforcing behaviours or is it that once a behaviour is understood use intermittent training which I find hard as fall back into habit of patterns or the level of rewarding drops off because it gets forgotten. Or do you plan when you are going to intermittently reinforce or do you use changing the value of the food treat – I have a range in my bag for fusion but know she prefers some but dont notice much in change if use a high value- she is so into the act of geting a feed reward that alot of value is in the act as much as what it is, I do try to jackpot sometimes to add surprise . Insynch opposite- high value is all she uses. Was training her to use the manners minda the other day- previously she hated. this time she was better with it but left a trail of treats spitting out the lower value and eating higher value. or do you change how you present the reward I have been trying to animayte food moe with In synch to increase food value. I do try and bring out higher value toys when we playing games- agility I use a low value so she doesnt lose her mind but ften bring out at the end of a session or if she does something hard.

I suppose my dilemma ie what I havent clear in my head how do you keep up reward frequency vs the value of the surprse.

sorry abit rambly my thoughts going thru mazes….

[beverley thomson]

Hi

Thanks for that
To really make my planning good, I have to run when I planned. My goal was to run faster than I needed to when I ran the dog. Was it exhausting? YES!!! But it was totally worthwhile because I sorted out my timing very quickly.
haha my legs dont work that fast- nor does my brain. I do run and works for fusion (except in ring) But In synch *I havent worked out yet and at the moment it changes every time.

Another thought with her is that all cookies can come on the ground: rather than feed from your hand where she jumps up to greet the hand, you can toss it to the side so it is all about stay down on the ground and not leaping as much.

The pattern games helped her settle a bit so one idea is to begin with the back and forth game so she can keep moving and then bring things in closer for the up and down game.
Like this need to remember to do it more as definitely helps and pattern games are something she has done alot of so familar and give her a job to do.

And since she loves the toy and the out is a little delayed, you can say your cue (I think you are saying “mine”) and then trade for a treat – that will make the out response faster.
working on this but once her teeth start to chatter – food is no where near as good as the toy. I need to do more with toy swops again.

head in lead
That is a great one! I think she will like it as a trick. And the leash can be used to tug on like a toy – that is legal in NZ agility, yes?
yes its legal – definitely she is quite liking the idea of head into leach- I think she also feels more in control also so she this as a big help once it is a behaviour she knows well. Tugging with leach long term I am not sure about – whether she will just focus on the lead being thrown back – but it is something to work on

I have done a bit of this – tendency is to ignore treat and jump anyway unless it is part of a pattern game. Still working on treat delivery as only just started to get value for food. If she has to work for food looses interest fast- I think she likes the movement of leaping so this is rewarding in itself. Working on making low food of value.

he has an impressive vertical leap LOL
You should see it when she really tries hard- as a youngster she hit my nose a few times.She loves leaping too. I have been working on a paws onto my leg on command around home as this is more controlled and this is helping also doing heeling with food on a fly swot so food is close to ground rather than coming from my hand.

Will she hold a stay on a platform or mat? You can totally use that here.
behaviour same on a platform or mat currently. Stays anywhere have been super hard for both of us. She is trying so hard with the stays and is starting to offer them.

Lining up with the treat – definitely went on the list to do away from equipment and then just one jump.
leg wrap is new trick we are working on- she has been unsure about being close to my feet- dont blame her but I think a middle would be a great way to get her lined up and a clear signal to wait in the longer term. so again another work in progress- seems to be alot of those LOL

It was hard to see the end of seq 1 because of the tree branches 🙂 But it looks like you did get a good BC in there at the end of the 3rd run and also at 3:32. Yay!
sorry about tree no wind when set up camera… I was very pleased with the BC- Usually struggle but her send and understanding commitment is improving so starting to be able to do more.

I think her engagement is improving heaps and she is alot more focused once we get started . I see progress every time we train now and alot less arguing in middle.

At the end, was she avoiding being caught? You can have her do tricks with you back to her leash – then when the leash is on, reward, take it off again, then do another sequence 🙂 That will help make it fun to come back and get the leash on 🙂
I think I had given her the toy and she was doing a victory lap. I had to go and get the other toy to get her back. This used to happen all the time but much improved and I got slack- also think her brain was tired . Need to add in tricks and head into lead at end.

Re did some of set 1 last night- will pos once downloaded – I was amazed at the improvement in her connection after two weeks. Some things are suddenly starting to click so hope for the other bits.

[beverley thomson]

hi
When you plan, do you also move?
yes but her speed doesnt always fit my planning and now we are starting to get more it is coordinating the start when I am focused on her wait . but practise wil help.

I will continue to bug you about make clean transitions and smooth lines up – she ight not have been biting, but there was a lot of jumping up (because she didn’t know what else to do) and also you were releasing her on your motion and not a verbal, which will make getting a stay a lot harder. More on that below.
keep bugging..
jumping is her default when she thinks something is happening or she want to play or she gets impatient because she dooesnt know what is happening. I notice she does it with the big dogs too and when ever let out of crate get up to toliet her etc- try to focus on channeling it into somethin else but i forget. it is reducig a little .

she found the line on the 3 jumps really well. Spread them out so they are closer to true competition distance – this will help build up her commitment and allow you to
Limited roomat this site I havent got out to the other site lately but will go back redo then.

She came into the ring here tugging which also helps with the set up and not getting the jumping up. But she was facing away from the jump and left the stay based on movement. That caused her to guess about the line (she ran the previous line, very clever!) But a clear set up and even a small lead out will make the handling so much clearer on the opening.

I agree but at the moment any sit I have been accepting as when I try and line her up she loses it . but am working on it separately so not too many layers.

some lead on off work. Had to do somw extra reinforcing of lead as she is not used to haveibg a slip on lead but it is what I want for ring. also want her to put her head into it.
Vhttps://youtu.be/6394QD5NrAg

today did the set 2 sequences. I was pleased in that she is starting to drive well once we get started . waits still to be desired- I tried at one stage to get a better sit ie straighter but ended up with everythig but so will keep working on this. starting to getmore reliable waits even if still releasing on movement,

found a chaep old perfume put on before did some of this sequencs and weaves with fusion. will do alot for next few weeks when doing calm learnt behaviours. Will let you know if makes a difference in the ring = next moth

Beverley

[beverley thomson]

PS
your comments in seminar re smells has my mind going down rabbit holes. Is it about the scent creating a link to the training ie in training calmer and less pressure so putting the dog back in that state. I am very interested if that is the case whether using a scent would allow a dog to stay more centered at a trial esp around things that require more thought like weaves In the same way that using the pattern games helps outside the ring
not sure I have put that very well

[beverley thomson]

Hi

Nationals were rained out and my club was running a ring so got super wet but still time for shopping. In Synch has a new collar and a slipcollar lead combo. So yesterday started with putting it over her head and her putting her head thru it and also taking off- after the first time she had got it. Then did lead on off game this went well except video moved

I do plan heaps but then she starts to move and it disappears from my brain…

Also did a couple of sessions on the tunnel discrim exercises- these went really well – okay some confusion on starting and not getting the dig for a couple of goes- but no biting and she was engaged. Couple times I wasnt sure where going so just sent her and then picked it up But was getting the turns. Friend videoed so in bits apart from second session when I videoed. first video the chaos at the start- my not being clear

sorry verbals came back but was trying to stay connected more and being better at rewarding-

[beverley thomson]

Hi

Sorry we have been at the nationals – a good way to make it ran hard.

In Synch did great with pattern games, waits and trick work around the ring -I didnt try when it was raining hard as neither of us would have been impressed. At the moment she is highly focused outside the ring. am Thinking I might try to do a couple of jumps at ribbon trial in dec between courses will see how she goes . Might change things when she realises she can actually run in the ring.

Yes definitely need to tidy my handling and verbals- the blood rushes to my head and ever thought in my head disappears- her and fusion a bit the same silent is a struggle. I also havent taught her alot of verbals at the moment buyt then fall back on needng to talk.. my problem not hers lol

Re the sit cue
I suppose my thought was that she worked really well in the seminar on food and that kept her arousal down a little. Without a sit a toy after a number of jumps tends to send her in to orbit. If I send her off to a toy she takes her energy out on the toy. I tend to be too slow to pull out and throw the toy or drop it onto the ground. I suppose I was thinking at the moment I get I have finished I need the reward now – which is true but I tend to get a charge and a bite . I think I need to work on a finish behaviour of go get toy rather than grab it off me. I dont know but thinking when get to ring need a behaviour that is not bite the momma as soon as do last jump. probably a sit wasnt the right thing

[beverley thomson]

here is the 2nd one- sorry about that.

Thanks very helpful.
I cursed the arrival f the second dog… I had already put it away once.

Beverley

[beverley thomson]

Thanks for that very helpful some I am already trying but good to know what teakes needed .

In the transitions into the sequence (and when you are going to the start after a reward), play with her on the way to the jump – it an be a back and forth pattern where she is moving side to side by not jumping up in front of you. Or, tug with her on the way to the jump. Another option is to have her wait on a platform until you are ready then call her to you at the first jump. I suggest working on all of these so the rehearsal of jumping in front of you is not happening and you can rehearse all sorts of desired behaviors.

Was using a toy for ages even just walking around but I wondered if that was reinforcing her demanding – in that she was used to having a toy and not learning that sometimes you just walk. Waiting on a platform will work on this separately

Picking her up doesn’t teach her anything 🙂 so work her like she is as big as Veloz 🙂 Giving her a different ‘job’ in those moments (tricks or tugging or a platform) will make a big difference.
I agree which is why I am trying other things.

The stays will continue to improve with more clarity of release – right now she is releasing when you move (before a verbal) so let’s get it to where she is holding a sit, you say a release, she moves then you move. If motion is the release, it will be very hard to get a consistent stay so we will really focus on getting you to *not* move when you release her. You are using verbals, but they are happening after the movement so I am pretty sure she thinks the movement is the release.

I have been working alot on her stays away from equipment (left this in video of my training )and they are improving heaps there probably need to do stays around equipment with no doing next. will also change to doing my verbal release before I move so I pattern me. Will be more mindful about what I am doing I think it is that I am piancing that she is about to break and then I go to custard- I need to chill more…

here is video of using more toy with the food and more focus on eating food rather than anything else. Much better in terms of her energy. I did have a long line on her but didnt need it. Interestingly enougn latency doesnt change with environment (until get to high level of doing agility) if anything more focus higher environment- was at a show this weekend and very sharp and focus with the food toss seem close to ring (no video). I left in the rest of the training session even though made for over limit video so you can see other things working on- waits, moving alot more with the food and some toy swop work. actually training this class at the start

She does love to run! But her questions are not impatience, they are more about the clarity of the release. Making it clear will really help her.
Okay yes but I also she her when we first come out running around offering stuff before I am anywhere near the equipment and she does alot of running over stuff with Robyns dogs. I work hard to prevent this now as I want to make sure I am part of the picture and I am not always.

She is doing well with the handling overall – the biggest successes are when you are moving with a LOT of connection (not fast, but super connected). When you are not connected, she is guessing about the line and that is fine 🙂 because we do want her seeking lines and not looking at you. So tackle each sequence with trying to keep your hands super low and pointing to her, not at the obstacles ahead of her (that breaks connection).
My rogue arms —- I feel in this session and often it was more chance that we got stuff rather than connection in that she was driving because it was where she thought she should go rather than because I sent her but working on this.

No verbals – will try but..

Okay I did another session- I shifted jumps slightly so the turns were more obvious- edited slightly removing when I was reloading treats. Left borng toy used previously at home by mistake so more exciting toy but still not at the top of her list. First video had an issue with robyns dog – one hassel when train somewhere else but thought In Synch handled well what was not great. I felt these session were more on track still lots of my errors (ie wild arms and verbals) but felt we were actually clicking in a few places or I knew why we didnt. We had been at a show all day and then she had had a big run so she was more settled plus I set her up better for success by simplifing the lines slightly. Havent really edited so skip past play etc. Second video I needed to stop and sort out the wait when she was close to the jump – as she was breakng and I didnt fix it. Middle video 2 as her wait had been better other places. Seq 2 I simplified and will build up to add in jump 1 as I struggled previously. I need to build so I stay calm then she might stay calm.

Thank you for your patience

[beverley thomson]

hi

It might be because she isn’t entirely sure, and this also might be because the value of the game is not high enough compared to the distractions in the environment. She did well in the videos here but that seemed to be an easy environment.

we have done these games abit and it hasnt changed much so think main thing is not enougn value. although adding marker will help make sure of clarity – like adding in toy. I suppose I hadnt because it was supposed to be about calm and rhthym and toy adds a nte of chaos and get less thoughtful behaviour when a toy present. want to build her want to do thsi game as use it alot with fusion to keep her settled around ring.

have used dishes before for both side to side game and updwn as means can use more around ring and felt created clarity as to where treat was. but will try using my foot

okay next video edited slightly to remove gettig more treats and when I was sorting out where to go but left in all the chaos.

Acutual excercise abit irrelevant – need to get us connected and wrk out how to push the right buttons . Am starting to get a sit at start but very short. have been trying to do tricks around jumps but chaos. this pog sticking is typcal when every she is keen to do anything. I probably made things worse here as had a toy in my pocket which does make her mad but wanted something in between goes as food is good as a reward at the end but then get mad in transition back to start. Picking her up helps but looking for what to do.

exercises a bit hard but heres my general comments. angle wrong for jump 5 first exercise but my arm crazy and she kept going around the back- should have moved jump 5 to set a better line for her. but need to work out how to get her looking for jump rather than just running. as start to pattern tried exercise 2 I couldnt get there for the push around 3 – should have started at 2 so I was there. Looked at exercise 3 but got a bypass of 2 – would have moved but we had both done more than enougn- found later camera had stopped anyway.
sorry so long but mainly interested in geeral comments of how to work these sessions as I feel as if playing catch up and panic and eed more calm from her at start without the frustration. we have done stuff with just one jump . when we connected things are great but chance rather than skill at the moment. t am starting to get a sit at the start but once she has sat she feels it is okay to start- reasonable waits away from agility now. not sure how to make this clearer to her have been trying a few tricks at start but she is not keen Need to channel this impatience to run and start not quite sure how to do this.

[beverley thomson]

hi
Do you mean the intensity of wanting to do the pattern games?
think Imean something abit like latency. that she is doing it because i ask but she is easily distracted and progress is slow. I dont thin it is that she doesnt understand the behaviour but she is doing it because i ask her rather than value to her. She can still put energy into it but easily cuts out. the other dogs get excited when I set up she doesnt really.

I havent really found the full art of reinforcement with her yet. slowly building food drive can now get decent food drive low distractions and high value. recently did a seminar where used almost all food and had huge drive . toys can send her over the top. use steak, cheese,meatballs, possum, liver, and a dog treat- need to mix up as she easily gets bored. However tonight wonder if using wrong rewards. left my dinner roast chicken and salad and what did she steal brocolli and carrot… LOL

videos yesterday and today. no editing asno access to editing . meatball first two sessions. all inside but Te was running arund outside wanting in. all inside in living room which is low distraction

first one not really planned just wanted to see what tricks she remembered and tried a few things new like dance and upon my body and knee. She liked those so might develop these.

next video was playing with watching her body language – ended upmore than five tricks as was focused on her. have done this before but used a different range of tricks. definitely get her focused here need to develop a bridge between this and agility stuff

food toss game. mistake on my part a few pieces were too big – when a piece is too big she either spitts it out or retreats to somewhere like my chair to eat it.this is a game we have done alot but have never been happy that she is fully committed. Treat used here was liver

updown game – have not done alot of this and havent really done the bending down I think this made a difference. treat here was possumuyu world famous in New Zealand as loved by all dogs.

[beverley thomson]

The thing about Paps is that they are Spaniels and most definitely not herding dogs. So are they independent? Yes. Do they seek reinforcement differently than herding dogs? Oh totally yes LOL!!!

haha in her case both- she has decided that she should round up sheep. But yes reinforcement is the hard piece as this is more challenging- she likes speed, toys and will now work a little for high quality food if not too much pressure. Not a great eater full stop. I also stuggle clarity and timeliness of cues – she is not very forgiving when I am wrong as often happens.

It depends on how you are working on it 🙂 What are you doing for calmness?
been doing alot of the stuff from brain camp plus previous course with bobbie- but I do struggle with the limit to her food motivation.
she likes snuffle mats. also the side to side game, have done less with updown game. but also done abit with novel and exciting and doing stuff in different places. But unlike my other dogs I dont feel as if I have the same intensity of wanting to do it that I have with my othr dogs I dont know whether that is because she is still young or whether we dont have the same reinforcemnet intensity built up or whether it is that the reinforcement isnt as good as it is food. Having said that all of these things are better than they used to be. But feel we havent quite made the transition from an individual exercise to something that is part of evey day life. if that makes sense.

We did alot with tricks when she was younger but need to bring it back- life has been abit full on in last few months and her training has not progressed as much as would like for this reason.

[beverley thomson]

life is getting in the way abit at the moment but we did manage to get a bit done on a less slopey plank. It was a bit rocky but she didnt seem to care- couple weeks ago she would have freaked. Still very much a work in progress- she wasnt quite worked out the value of offering but starting to happen
Am going for a 2×2 contact at the moment but will probably change to a running later but am happy if stay at a 2on2

[beverley thomson]

yah

[beverley thomson]

Thanks for the info

This weekend just worked on a few pieces- some work with the raised plank -and some work on waits, and mat tunnel revisited.

beverley

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