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Sounds good. I know I was reaching for his collar for the next send into the tunnel do to the full course, which normally he is good with, but like the ready, ready dance from MaxPup1 is a bit arousing.
I did realize in his first couple of little shows that by the end of a run he is too aroused for crazy excited praise in the ring. I’ve been ending those runs by having him come to my side and sit while I gently tell him how great he is and then I send him to find his leash (he goes to the leash hanger and touches it with his nose and I put it on him).
I’ll make sure to work in the calmer stuff between the arousing stuff (especially at camp and shows).
Hey Tracy,
Here’s that rep I mentioned at the end of our session this morning. This was our last turn. We’d just done a couple of short sequences 13-16 trying to get that wing wrap out of the tunnel right where it was my handling that was off, not his responses (he got the backside then I pulled him off it, then this rep he got it right). I tugged with him after but you and I were also talking quite a bit and on the way to start the full sequence I’m distracted trying to remember the different passes through the 2-4 bit.
Watching it back I can see his frustration a little bit still wouldn’t have totally expected the face launch. I duplicated the incident in this clip, zoomed in and slowed it down. His mouth is open the whole time and the only contact was that he actually smacked my lower jaw up into my upper, but no tooth contact at all. He’s done this a few times at shows and class. Typically after sequences where there was a mistake and I just kept going without acknowledging it but he knows because things get a bit chunky even when I keep going.
In retrospect I should have had him go between my legs for some calm cookies after the initial tug reinforcement so he could collect his thoughts and emotions while I talked and thought.
We hung out at West Coast Cup for 4 days, then have been on the road to Washington. See you at camp tomorrow. But, lurking on Dellin’s thread this AM (we’ve been virtually doing classes with Dellin since Ripley was 6 weeks old 💗).
I’d love to hear more about the resilience training you were mentioning. I feel like all dogs need it. Rip goes the opposite direction of Dellin and gets frustrated with me when he knows something’s gone wrong. So, even though it looks very different, it’s the same emotional basis (lack of clarity, confusion, worry, etc.) and then expressing those emotions in a way that may not be super productive and happy making.
Yes, makes sense – and teaches me to read the fine print. I think I saw where it said normal UKI rules and assumed that included NFC stuff. I remembered you had your young dogs in Speedstakes at the last US Open and was thinking they’d been NFC then. I even thought one or both of the shows would have titling classes/dogs running courses based on level. All good -I’ll greatly modify our plan and expectations.
They do have a practice ring at both our Cup and Open so thinking we’ll go for the experience and fun since it’s close enough to drive and we’ve already got things arranged and have our own pretend show using the practice ring a lot. This weekend’s Cup we’ll plan to do lots or all NFC (unless a speedstakes or Gamblers looks doable). Open we’ll probably just scratch or modify and accept elimination unless something looks remotely doable.
Thank you so much for helping me figure this out. I’ll start reading entries (especially for venues I haven’t done a lot) much more closely.
Hey Tracy,
Nothing to post today but just wanted to ask about NFC at UKI. Rip’s done 1 UKI show but was only 15 months so could only do the Speedstakes class. He’s 18 months old (tomorrow) and because we have so few UKI shows in our area we entered the next 2 – 1 of which is a “Cup” – West Coast Cup and the other is an “Open” – West Coast Open. My plan is to run NFC (especially since I didn’t quite understand there wouldn’t be courses by dog’s level – sounds like everyone runs the same course). Other venues I’ve done haven’t really had these types of trials so took me a while to realize how it worked.
Anyway, sounds like I can run him NFC in any class even at these types of trials – is that right? Even classes like Snooker and Gamblers? Do you know what amount of time they give you on the course if you are NFC in a game that doesn’t have a regular SCT?
Also, looking forward to seeing you at camp in WA at the end of next week. Forecast looks good so far (much better than the 115 it hit when we were there last summer for a Shade Whitesel toy play workshop).
Cindi
As far as I can tell that CPE “extra” DTIR rules I got before last weekend’s trial was not real, probably some really old version that was kind of a combination FNG (Fix N’Go) and DTIR. I’m sticking with what’s in their online rules book which is much less restrictive. No one has fussed at me yet for what I’ve been doing.
Posting 3 videos – trying to catch up and feeling a little behind – but thank goodness for the live classes I’m not too far behind to be able to catch up (hopefully – what’s our last posting date for this class?).
Here’s some teeter angles (we’re working IRL on sticking the 2o2o so I used the regular teeter):
Here’s a little bit of Zig Zag, I flattened the angles until he couldn’t bounce it and stopped:
And, some lap and tandem turns from tunnel to wings:
UPDATE: Sounds likely that DTIR stuff from this weekend’s CPE trial is actually not correct and/or is out of date. Trial organizer is checking with the judge due to the discrepancies between the doc and what is shown in CPE’s online rulebook.
Yes, the CPE thing is perplexing. It doesn’t match up with what’s in the rulebook online. And, according to this I’ve been breaking lots of rules in my DTIR runs at the 2 CPE shows he’s done. I’ve been tugging after each contact, having hop back on and continuing the run, then having him tug at the end of the course as we leave. I’ve emailed the trial person who sent this to ask where it is coming from.
I guess I also did not realize they can grab their leash but you can’t have the other end and let them tug. With Rip that’s not a super active choice. If he grabs it and I’m holding it he would likely start to tug. I haven’t been doing that since I’m encouraging him not to snatch it from leash runners, but will need to switch to a non-tug type leash if that’s real.
Do you have specifics from UKI or USDAA on this stuff? I really don’t want to be breaking any rules, especially because I find getting yelled at or whistled off a course stressful and sad for the dog.
Not sure if a file link will work here but here’s the latest CPE DTIR rules (just got these today for a trial that starts tomorrow). The first 2 CPE shows I ran DTIR I was not following all of these rules. 😒
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0eyrjrsdtnm9hra/FNG%20and%20DTIR%20for%20WAG%20CPE%20Shows.pdf?dl=0
This is the reason I need to work on my blinds (and make smarter decisions) –
https://www.facebook.com/1191483957/posts/10229092838884232/I learned if he breaks his start at all I may not make the blind, once he knows where he’s going (these were double runs – same course 2 times) I may not make the blind, and when there’s no jump hang time and mostly straight lines I may not make the blind.
I definitely want to get better at doing them and smarter about when to do them because I do like them.
Yeah that Pole Position game reminds me of barrel racing as a kid (but I’m working a lot harder running a dog instead of just sitting on the horse 🤣).
We worked on the Lead Out concept transfer today. I’m trying to increase his arousal on the start line a little at home (and in classes) to mimic what he’s like at an actual trial. So, we’re doing some tugging and I let my 13-year-old BC be in the yard next to us barking her head off (which I used to avoid so that he could concentrate on what we were learning but now appreciate as a great distraction).
These are all of our reps – just cut out some tugging in between.
He’s not the hugest fan of me tossing a toy behind him or to him on the startline. It’s not really reinforcing for him (same with a dead toy behind him that he could be released to). Manners Minder behind him is okay to be sent to instead of release but kind of an annoyance it seems. My first fast border collie was like that and if given a treat on the start line would spit it out and didn’t want to go back to or catch a toy, just wanted to be released forward. Normally I always give a cookie for the sit on the line but I’m playing a little with weaning off that because I feel like in trials I don’t have that (even FEO/NFC). I could release him forward to tug but haven’t really tried that yet.
I did the gradual distance lead out but totally forget to do the handling to 3 and just sent him ahead to a pre-thrown toy. Also on BC reps I moved into position before releasing him and re-reading the instructions we should have been running into that as they were released. We’ll keep working on this.
In the trials he’s done so far it feels like we start out where we are at home on day 1 and generally early day 2, but then towards the end of the trial he gets more and more focused on/locked onto the first obstacles and doesn’t want to sit. We get more barking waiting for his turn and entering the ring and then he just looks on to the obstacles with me in his peripheral vision. This past weekend the 3rd day I ran him off the line on some courses where you started mid-course into a u-shaped tunnel so it made sense anyway and at the very end when he couldn’t sit on the line I just had him wait in a stand and he did fine (but I also didn’t ask for a long lead out since we haven’t really trained that in a stand).
We are continuing to do a lot of offered sits for reinforcing things (Premack) especially for playing in the hose since that is VERY arousing for him and he’s doing well on that.
I completely appreciate that it is a good problem to have that the dog is too focused on me and the equipment versus some alternatives, so happy to work through this in whatever way keeps him confident, optimistic and wanting to play the game with me versus a battle of wills before we even start the course.
We’re at a show so no official homework to post but wanted to share this new CPE “Speedway” game called “Pole Position.” Max Puppers have a HUGE advantage here. Rip was fastest of all the dogs at any level and I think I even got a little spin in there. 😁
We worked a bit on mat/tunnel discrimination. We’ve done a good amount of building value for the mat but not much recently. I did a short session just making sure he could drive to the mat on a verbal and from between my legs.
Later we did a session of mat vs tunnel.
Hi Tracy,
We’ll definitely keep increasing distractions for his 2o2o (and we’ve doing lots of training runs with toys at shows – sometimes me knows I have it, sometimes not, sometimes no toy) to help proof.
At shows I’m trying to keep running as he moves into position but watching the videos I can see a lot of the time I’m still deceling and stop just before or just as he does. I’ll keep working on that. At home I feel like I’m better about it.
This video below is from this weekend, we traveled out of state to a brand new location and he was pretty excited about it. At the end of the 2nd day he was struggling to sit on cue at the start and wanted to just stand and stare at the first obstacles (especially if he could see a contact on his line). So we’re working on being able to sit on cue or offer a sit (Premack) when he’s in a higher arousal state and really wants something – like to go out on the agility field, or when we play with the hose to get me to start spraying it again. Any other ideas on that part? In general he’s super good, low latency about cued sits and has an automatic sit for his side, close and middle line ups just sometimes when he’s really excited he can’t quite do it (when that happens I ask for a hand touch and then a chin rest and then he can sit or I move him and restart the line up – that works about 95% of the time to unfreeze him and let him think again).
Today we did a little of the newest Serps exercise. No real issues on 1 or 2 jumps. On the tunnel exercise I set things up just wrong enough that it wasn’t really what you demonstrated so we’ll redo that tonight or tomorrow AM.
Note to self – do not work on a skill with Ripley for 30 minutes without balancing it with the opposite skill – even if it’s in a class setting. 🤣
So, I was hopeful this was just a dog’s line, logic, extension vs collection, no physical cues, tunnel turning away kind of an issue yesterday.
Maybe partly, but Ripley’s answer in last night’s training was no, I mostly just think I’m supposed to always find the hardest tunnel entry after working on the skill for 1/2 of his Wednesday IRL class.
In this session below I can see some reps where I give him a little excuse by thinking he’s committed and starting to move off but I’ve always been able to do that with him. Some of these reps I am 100% supporting the correct entry and he’s veering around me to find the opposite end. 😝
So, concept dog score 1, Cindi score 0.
Guess who’ll be doing lots of fun regular tunnel entries for a couple of days?
I continue to be fascinated by this puppy.
Editing this post to add this morning’s quick tunnel/play session. This is all the reps we did (just edited out some toy play between). Only got 1 unintended threadle tunnel and when I looked back at his line I realized the tunnel on the right had shifted a lot and so was aiming out at the highway which did put that far tunnel entrance on the left on his direct line once he turned back onto the course. I’m also trying to keep my arm back and low so my chest is pointing at the correct entrance with more connection and more purposefully than I’ve had to in the past with him (before the wonderful world of threadle tunnels opened up to him this week). Makes it hard to run fast but I think we’ll end up in a happy medium on this soon.
I’ve been meaning to circle back to threadles – tunnels, jumps and all the things since I feel like it’s a hole in our training so far and haven’t really done it. Last night in his IRL class we did a LOT of work on tunnel threadles. He had not seen that concept in many months and I had not ever built a solid foundation on it (so he’d seen it like 2-3 training sessions over the past year) – partly because I struggle with some of the murkiness of it. In class he was still a bit uncertain but starting to remember the concept (at least without any speed into a tunnel threadle). So, that’s your background on today’s session.
First video – the good. We worked on MaxPup style threadle on jumps cueing and then I realized that the jump I was practicing on was a jump that I think the package 1 asks for a threadle on so we backchained to doing just the first 3 jumps from that course (if I remembered it right – I haven’t looked at it for a while).
Then things got weird. I tried to work on the sitting jump tunnel discrimination on verbal only exercise. My tunnel was not straight and I was too lazy to move it out of the corner to straighten it (especially since I want to do that actual package 1 jumpers course tomorrow and it’s part of it). We ended up with some really interesting logic/choices from little Ripley that I think I kind of get, but not 100%. You’re up!
