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Hi!
This was an interesting session and a great challenge to choose!!
> I think mentally he isn’t focus enough to do them. And it’s not just weaves. Sometimes at trials (usually outdoor ones) he acts as if he’s never been trained lol. He’ll pick a line and stick with it regardless of what I’m doing.>
It definitely sounds like a processing thing – trying to process the environment and process the mechanics of the weaves… and it doesn’t always go well for the weaves.
>The last trial I decided to do several NFC runs to help him get in the right state of mind and that helped, we had a pretty good weekend overall.>
Super!! The environment is different when there is a toy in the ring for sure! But it is very helpful to do NFC.
>So, first rep (no distraction) fine. Second rep (with a plastic bag) fine.>
Watch that 2nd rep closely… his striding is different. Aha! The plastic bag IS a processing challenge!!!
>Then I decided to bring out the big guns. He’s a covid puppy and once we started back at class when he was younger, I realized not training around other dogs was a huge issue for him (he couldn’t focus). So, I bought several full sized plush dogs which seem to get him every time lol. So, the Beagle distraction got him on the first try but then he got the weaves the second time.>
I was distracted by the beagle too hahaha! He did get the weaves the 2nd time… but it looks like the striding was different on those too! And it sounds like he smacked a weave pole as well.
So because we are seeing striding changes on the neutral object – stick with various novel-neutral objects for a few more sessions. Keep changing objects and changing the locations of the object and the weaves (and get him HYPED with tugging and tunnels :)) until we are not seeing striding changes. Then we will jump up to novel-exciting 🙂 The goal is to stick at each level long enough so that he can get consistent striding and processing in a variety of locations and with a variety of different challenges.
> He will often times not even try to do the weaves the first time but after he knows they are there, he may be able to do them>
The processing probably prevents him from even perceiving the weaves the first time, so that is definitely something that will go on the list when we get to the harder levels the 4th and 5th packages! I am excited to see him work through this – we will be super systematic and you will see a big difference in the weaves and overall on course!
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
Apologies in advance for boring feedback, it is mostly about how lovely these runs were! Yay! You were rally great about keeping lower arms and being super connected!!> I struggle with blind crosses>
Based on these blinds here, I’d say you don’t struggle anymore!!! They were fantastic.
Looking at the runs:
Run 1 – gorgeous, connected, and fast!!!
I couldn’t hear if you were using any verbals, so feel free to use verbals as long as you stay as connected as you were here.run 2 – another lovely run with a gorgeous blind, well-timed and well-connected!!!
runs 3 & 4 – These went really well too – he got the front of the last jump on the first rep – you can show that line sooner and push to the backside line as he is committing to 4. (1:27 and 1:56). When he is heading to 4, you can start heading to the 6 backside as long as you stay connected like you were. No need to square up to face the line to 5, you can converge directly towards 6 and he will take 5 and head to the backside of 6 and not the front.
You got it at 1:58 with a lot of connection and outside arm helped a lot too! Super!
Run 5 & 6 – Fantastic timing of the BC, great connection, he had no question on which side to be on during the first full run and also at 3:02 on the 2nd full run.
You blocked the wing a bit at 2:27 so he thought you wanted the blue tunnel, good boy!Compare your position at 2:27 to your position at 2:42 where you showed the wing (lined up more to where the wing and bar meet) and he had no questions. And you nailed it in flow at 3:03! Lovely!
Run 7 – lovely connection and serp to the backside!
Run 8 – another lovely connected run with a beautifully timed blind cross! Nailed it! Be sure that after the blind you are still letting him see the wing – your running line should be more towards where the wing and bar meet (making the backside wing very visible to him). On this blind at 3:52, you were a little more on his line, so he went wide around you to find the wing.
One thing I noticed was that he would drop the 1 or 2 bar. Perhaps he was fatigued? But is it also possible that he gets off balance when you release him to jump 1 because he is too close to it. He leans into the start (you can see it at 3:20) and gets a little off balance because he is close to it. When he was a little further from the start jump on the last run, he kept the bars up nicely! Sosetting him up with 2 or 3 big strides before the 1st jump might help a lot with those bars.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
He did great with the back and forth pattern game here! At home, you can add your walking back and forth.On the road (driveway) – it was a little harder with critter noises and bird noises 🙂 but he did really well! This was excellent rehearsal of assessing the environment and returning his attention to you. For his next session, you can start like this and if he has an easy time, you can add in walking back and forth. If you think he might take off to chase something, you can do it on leash – adding the leash is a good thing anyway, because he will be on leash outside the ring at a trial.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!
He did well with his NFC runs here! They fit into the “Just Like Home” category from this week.
Lovely connection and he did great!
One note – if he goes past a jump (for whatever reason) like in the first run, don’t stop and reward that… keep going til you get back on a line, then reward the obstacle. That way he learns to save you and take the jumps anyway even if the handling is not perfect 🙂 Stopping when he goes past a jump and rewarding, even though it is a handler error, can inadvertently reward going past the jump so it is better to keep going for another jump or two.
On the 2nd run he thought the people moving around near the start were hard! He was looking at them and then did a big shake off. Good info to have! But he held his stay and ran really well!
It *was* appropriate to stop and reward when he took the off course tunnel, because you sent him to it 🙂 and he committed to an obstacle.
Overall, he is looking for lines really well and pretty comfy in the environment!!
>do these count in the 5 minute tally for sequences or is that for the MaxPup content only?>
These do not count, that is for the sequences 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! Welcome back!
>We have tried many different things and he just keeps repeating this behavior.>
Was the behavior the running off and visiting, then the avoidance of going back to where the crate area was?
>The only thing that has worked is me going to get him. And you can tell by my body language that I am very frustrated as I’m so over this happening. >
Yes… but he will avoid more if being grabbed & moved like that is part of going to get him.
There were 2 things I see happening here –
the search cookies were not a really valuable transition aid, compared to the value of the things in the environment. What type of treats were they? Using much higher value treats might help, along with making it more of a pattern game where you are fully engaged.there is some avoidance behavior too, manifesting as visiting. He was avoiding the area where the crates were – was it avoiding going to that area? Or avoiding going in his crate, if that is where it was? Or avoiding starting another rep? I don’t know enough about the situation to answer that, but he definitely started visiting when he got close enough to realize you were heading there.
To help fix the avoidance behavior, you can also clean up the loop: after the reward for each rep (dog walk, in this case), you can reward him from you again then cue him to got on a station (cot, Klimb, etc). Then you go reset to where you want to start the next rep. Then release him from the station. Someone else can help reward him on the station, to build the value of staying there. But that creates a cleaner, high value loop in your training without him wanting to leave to visit, or avoid the crate area.
Also, what was his rate of success on the dog walk (and in general, in classes). With distractions easily accessible, the rate of success needs to be really high with great rewards. Nothing that comes out the MM is that valuable, which is why another reward from you after the MM reward can help too. And rewards on the station will really help as well.
Working simpler things (like shaping or wrapping cones) with high value rewards when other people & dogs are around will also help him ignore them! The dog walk is not simple and there is a big transition back to the start area, with plenty of opportunity for the environment to become the most interesting thing out there.
let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hello!
ye, you can absolutely ask questions in this thread, and you can upgrade if you like too. And if there is a video that really needs to be seen, we can look at it in the training chats on zoom! Have fun!Tracy
Hi and welcome! We will totally be working on her ring stress – and be sure to check out the free webinar too, that has plenty of tools.
Tracy
Hi!
>While this does make sense, once you’ve trained it well enough, is it reasonable to expect the dog to use the verbal (for a threadle in particular) even if your body isn’t perfect? >
In theory, yes! In reality? Not so much 😂 If the body is roughly right and supports the well-trained verbal, then the dog can get it. But if the physical cues conflict with the verbal? The dogs don’t get it 99% of the time. So we need to figure out physical cues that support the verbal.
>Unfortunately, I have some pretty bad SI joint issues and can’t always get more rotation in my lower spine without a lot of pain.
Thanks for letting me know! Now we brainstorm what makes sense as a physical cue without causing you pain and also without needing more rotation in your lower spine. That could mean a high outside arm for a threadle slice, or a shoulder dip rather than an arm swing. We have lots of options and can see which works best for you!!
T
Hi! The courses went well!!
Course 1:
Opening went really well
When she gets on the line 4-5, be moving toward 6 to do the BC on 6 as she is lifting off for 5. It was late at :10 & 1:30 & 2:41, and she ticked the bar at :10.
Fc there at :28 worked well too!
Looking at the backside before the poles – 2 things are happening there:
– there is a bit of an incomplete understanding of the backside verbal (if that is what you were saying to her, it was hard to hear). She seems to understand that it is go to the other side (based on the line) but not the part about ‘then jump the jump’ So isolate the backsides and when you give the backside verbal, always throw the toy to the landing spot before she makes any decision about it – that will get things more automatic and you won’t risk more failure or have to handle it precisely
– Specifically to this context: you were stationary, then accelerated with your shoulder closed. That is what cued her to layer it at :32 as compare to :14 & :42 & :52 where you decelerated and turned. So to be able to stay in motion and show the weave entry here, you will need to serp that jump (arm back, open shoulders to the bar) and drop the reward in on the landing side as she arrives at the backside.
>I suspect that was our biggest issue with getting the weave entry. >
Yes, moving through the backside was the challenge for getting the weave entry – being able to serp the backside jump is the best way to set the line to the weaves.
You were trying to get in closer to it to get her to take it by decelerating & turning (1:58, 2:16, 2:49) but that pulled her off the line to the weaves. And turning your your feet towards her at 1:34 pulled her off the line. So working the serp of the backside so you can move through it will really help with the weave entries.
>think the weave exit was exactly what you said with having to support her all the way to the end. She also doesn’t have a lot of experience with a switch, so that didn’t help us.>
The tight turn on the switch needs to be decelerated to get her to do it, and I recommend 2 hands for it to flip her away (rather than try to use motion or stepping behind her line). So as she is exiting, get her to focus on your hands as you decelerate, then as she is almost arriving at your hands, so a slow and low turn away motion to help her flip away.
Being able to switch away smoothly will allow you to get to the 13 backside more easily.
13-end looked really strong! To help with the bar at 21, you can converge very strongly towards 22 and even use an outside arm to turn her to it.
Course 2:
>I didn’t include it in the video, but she was positive that the first jump was a backside, lol. I was not facing the backside line AT ALL and didn’t have any weird arm things going on.>
It might have had something to do with where she was lined up, or how you were pressuring the line (proximity, for example). Those are almost always the reasons they take the back instead of the front on these.
>I cut out the 5-8 loop. I suspect even with the right numbers I would have struggled getting the blind before “5” (supposed to be 9). I>
Oops, no worries, I thought maybe it was an attempted blind to threadle wrap?
>I also had a hard time supporting her line for the backside at 12.>
What was happening here was that she doesn’t really understand to stay on the parallel path on that line: she curls in at you unless you are up there ahead of her to really converge like you did at 1:28. So you can isolate that section and work it to show the difference between stays on the parallel path versus coming in on the line only when cued. You can move the jump over so it is easier to stay on the parallel path to the backside and hard to curl in to the front side, so she can get lots of rewards for the parallel path line to the backside.
One reason she might curl in is that you read her with the toy in front of you, so shift the placement of the reward out to the line: when she gets the backside, throw it to the landing spot (and miles from you :))
She was lovely about staying in the weaves as you layered! You needed something stronger for the jump after the weaves, like a side change to get her to turn left or a threadle cue.
At :56 & 1:46 you were calling her and said jump but showing nothing else, so she took the front of the jump.At 2:06 you did a close cue into a RC – is close your threadle slice or threadle wrap? She did turn left but she had a question – so the left turn there would be a threadle wrap, and deceleration will help that too and the low hands for the threadle wrap too.
>f you think Kat could do both of them, I will keep both spots.>
She can do both of them, and we can work more on parallel path understanding!
Great job here :)
Tracy
Hi!
>Forgot to try it bringing up my outside arm, I do think that might make it a little easier, but it also might flip him away? >
The outside arm up pretty high and pointing to the wing of where you want him to go should shift him out to stay on the line but shouldn’t turn him away. The flip away arm cues are lower and have more of a ‘stirring the cauldron’ motion 🙂
On the video:
He is already figuring out that there is an obstacle on the other side of the weaves, so the exposure to it really helps – you were a little too far ahead 1-2 so had to decelerate, and he still got it.
Getting too far ahead 1-2 then having to decel almost sent him off course when you started moving up the line (:07). Sending to 1 and moving away immediately was what was getting you too far ahead. You can lead out to 1 and release to it, and move when he is arriving at 1.
The line was better the 2nd time when you got closer to 2 so you could accelerate to 3 more, then decelerate into the weave entry. You did this really well on the last run too 🙂 You got a little past 2 on the 3rd & 4th runs and that push him a little wide of the line (he looked at you there).
One small blooper after the weaves: be sure to stay connected on the exit of 4 so he gets 5 (:30)
>Totally missed the difference in the dog’s line from the weaves to the 2 jumps to the backside in this sequence from the line of 1, 2, 3 in the Sequence 1. This sequence really set the line to the backside of the second jump >
Yes, sneaky little line there LOL!! He was a good boy! It is a common challenge on course – potential line to the backside. You gave him a little threadle at 1:12 & 1:32 and it worked well! Since he knows his backsides really well, it is something to look for when you walk courses: is there a spot where he might potentially stay on a line to the backside?
Great job here!
Tracy
