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Hi!
This session went great! I think she likes the Minny Pinny and was very happy to zip around it! Adding the bumps was way for her – she was bouncing really well and the when she saw the turn and burn element of it, she set up a gorgeous turn stride too! Super nice!>Ginger needs to stop her bad habit of sending before Reese is actually parallel to me. I’m not sure why I’m so bad at working on line ups! >
One thing that might help you send when she is lined up is if you have a gentle hold on her collar, say the verbals a few times, then let her go. That way, you have the lineup and she learns the verbals before she moves.
Great job!!
Tracy
Hi!
About the threadle arms 🙂
>I trained Phaede to do a flick (threadle wrap) with dog side arm, but you use other one and lots of people use the “threadle” arm. Which one is better? >
The best choice is what will be most visible to the dog, and easiest to differentiate from other cues. It is an entirely trained cue, so we can decide on how to cue it.
I use both hands down low and visible to the dog, which is entirely different than the other arm uses for other cues.
For the dog-side only arm, it can be quite visible if you make a clear punch down with it. And same with using the opposite arm across the body – as long as it is visible to the dog (I am not that flexible so it was hard for my dogs to see it up high). I know plenty of folks who use that very effectively!
What is your in-person trainer doing with threadle wrap arms? It sounds like for threadle slices it is one arm back (like our strike a pose stuff here). It might be easier to match threadle wrap arms with the trainer too, so you can get immediate feedback when training in person.
>I took my current competition dog on a tour of every park around to prep her for competition – just not up there on my priority list quite yet.>
Agreed, no need to start that yet. But also, changing the environments in training in your regular locations will also help generalize behavior.
On the video:
You were using the outside arm for the threadle wraps here – very easy to see. He did really well with it! The next step is to take out the extra motion you were using to cue it: outside arm swings, shoulder turn, and stepping to the barrel. You can just show him the arm, locked into position, then let him turn himself away.The threadle wrap cue (verbal, arm, position) should cue the entire behavior ofcoming to the threadle side then wrapping. If you are using a lot of extra motion, he will come to rely on the 2nd part of the cue to turn away which we don’t want. So cue the threadle wrap as he is approaching the barrel, then hold still and let him do the rest 🙂
And remain stationary as he turns himself away – you can start moving forward again when he is about halfway around the barrel.
When you tried to move forward before he turned himself away (like at 1:34), the motion conflicted with the new cue so he was a little confused.
When you added 2 barrels, there was a good contrast between 1 arm and 2 arms on the cue. When you went to only dog-side arm at 2:52 then stepped away laterally, and he was confused there. Using the outside arm on the other reps worked a lot better and he was able to get it. Yay!!
When working the stay – yes, add lining up after each reward. He held the stays well but after the catch was not sure what to do, so came towards you. He did re-set when cued, but I think having you throw the reward, then play a bit, then line up again, then you move away can help turn it into more o lead out around the
Rocking horse front crosses on the barrel: He was committing really well so you could leave early. And he seemed to really love chasing you after the wrap 🙂
Since we don’t need to do a precision reward here, u can have the toy tucked into a pocket – that way you won’t switch hands (which delays info and draws his attention to your hands) and a dangling toy won’t draw his attention as you send. Then you can all the toy out when it is reward time 🙂
You can add the spins and race tracks from the new game added last night!
>We also ended up with working between toy and food – he will need that quite a bit. Then we worked on could he do a behavior before going to the toy – clearly he does not understand all of the words! So this was more of a discovery session for me.>
Do you mean at the very end, when you were down on the ground with him? I think you being down low there was where the questions came from. The physical pressure cued the down if the verbal said sit – but raising your hands helped get the sit. Tugging was hard with you low (hard for him to grab and pull back) and he was not entirely comfortable jumping up for the toy when cued, possibly because your face was right there and he didn’t want to have teeth near your face. I appreciate his consideration with that!
So it would be interesting to see how he does with you standing.
>So on this little pin wheel, would you just use my generic soft turn? Realistically we won’t be doing UKI or ISC unless they start offering them nearer to me.>
Are you planning for the Minny Pinny? I would use a specific directional for that (left or right) – it is actually something you will use all the time in AKC. A generic cue might not give enough info will all of the off course opportunities in AKC, so the specific cues will give very clear info, on both jumps and tunnel exits.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I promise not to be so lame going forward >
You are NOT lame at all – hosting a 3 day trial is a TON of work (thank you for doing that) and I am very sorry to hear about the human drama 🙁 That sucks!
You’ll have a blast at Cynosport! We will be cheering for you!
>Wren is with us, not competing but serving as Support Staff for Pirate and Scallywag,>
You have the best dog names, I love it! What a fun crew!
>Looking at week 2 material, I can probably work on some forward and lateral sends with those, and maybe even some blind crosses.>
Yes – you can do some of that and also there are a couple of games added on Monday that are great for no equipment (Motion Override) and the Countermotion Commitment. Plus, having her in that environment to just hang out, maybe do some tricks & pattern games, etc – that is incredibly valuable! More valuable than running a sequence, so it is great she is there.
Looking at the video:
Great job getting her happier with the Cato plank! Do you think it is the movement or the noise she is questioning? Or both?
If it is only the movement, you can use a bit of social learning: let her watch Pirate and Scallywag move it for big rewards, then she can come out and get a MASSIVE reward for moving it. You can put a couple of towels squished up under it to reduce the movement even more, because she might then be tempted to put more feet on it 🙂
If it is noise, I don’t suggest using social learning because she might get sensitized to the noise from the other dogs slamming it. But definitely brace with more stuff under it so it is a little noisy and a little bit of movement, but not a lot at all.
And one thing I like to do with dogs that show concern about movement or noise in teeter foundations: I don’t approach it as shaping or training sessions, I lean into more of a classical conditioning route with high value pairings. What I mean by that is a one-hit wonder approach: one interaction with it produces one massive reward (favorite toy thrown, handful of the best food ever like steak)… then the session is done. Literally, one rep. Leave the pup wanting more without any time to do a lot of deep thinking about it 🙂
She is doing great with the jump- tunnel sequence! Yay! She was committing really well both in extension and on the turns on the jump. You can definitely add more of your motion – your connection was very strong, so I think it will be no problem for her to see you running more 🙂
She seemed to have a grand time doing it so it will be even more fun when you are running more. So fun! And because this looked so strong, it will be easy to jump into the sequences when you get home from Cynosport.
The board session looked like a painting! What a gorgeous setting! She was super strong with her board skills here too. You can definitely elevate the board – do you have blocks that will lift it about a foot off the ground? That will allow you to add in hopping on and off in the middle (great for balance and confidence!). I think there will also be a tiny bit of noise when the board is elevated, which will help for teeter foundations too.
Great job here! Have a blast this week!
Tracy
Good morning!
Thanks for the info about the lick stuff. I strongly believe there is a way to allow for food in the ring for NFC. I also strongly believe that the UKI owners will have to be pushed into it LOL
I found a squeeze product made by Kong that did NOT drip even with me running around and flailing my arms and rewarding poorly 🙂 And the dogs loved it! It was a little expensive but can be worth it.
>Even the stuff that guy (in England? – can’t remember exactly where) is allowing in his new custom venue must drip sometimes, right?>
Yes, England (Dave Munnings and Nexus). They say their required products do not drip. But those products are not available in North America. Sigh.
Mountain climbers is going great! The tip seems to be easy for him – I love seeing him drive directly to the end and stay there even after he gets the treat, while you do all sorts of handling after running past 🙂 And tugging/adding arousal did not change his mechanics, which is great!
While I am thinking of it, the other thing you can add at this stage are some slightly angled entries/approaches to the teeter. In my perfect happy world, we only see straight line entries to contacts. But the reality is that we often see angled approaches even if the rules are against them. So – tiny angles can be added now (I have a game coming that introduces some severe angles, because people who compete in AKC will see some pretty severe approaches).
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
This game went really well – you are one of the few people who actually keeps moving at the same pace and lets the dog think about it without stopping or repeating the cue. Click/treat for you!!!
Rusty did great and was also hilarious to watch! His facial expressions as he processed the sit cue were so cute & funny (you can see him really thinking). My favorite moment was when you said sit and after a heartbeat of processing it he stepped back to sit at the spot on the ground where he was when you said the cue (:27).
>Down seemed to go more quickly and smoothly perhaps because we have been practicing the table with auto drops while I move about.>
Yes, he seemed more comfortable with the downs and quicker to respond. He was interesting there too: he seemed to want to keep seeing your face as you kept moving, so he stepping sideways as he moved into the down, to get the down AND maintain his view of you. Clever!
Since he did so well, you can practice this on your right side as well. If the right side is the harder side for you both, you can slow down your motion so he can be successful.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>For the run with Drink in hand. Run with him or just try myself?>
You start it just by yourself, but it is definitely a game meant to be played with the dog 🙂
One step sends: going really well! There is a decel component to them (so you can organize the send). You were doing that really well, so I think you can be starting it sooner to send from further away. When he is arriving at the jump before the send (the blue jump here) you can be slowing down. That will likely mean more connection will be needed to support the send from further back, but it will be a fun challenge to see how far away he can send!
>I tried to be better with my connection. He was missing the jump before the BC>
Connection was strong overall. I think part of him missing that jump was baby dog learning and figuring out what the timing is at this age. On the reps where he got the jump like at 2:51, 3:22 – the blind started after he landed from the middle, so he was seeing the next jump. And connection after the blind was good so he knew where to go. Yay!
When he missed the jump at 2:32 and 7:22, you were one stride earlier starting the blind – which means the disconnection for the blind started sooner. So I think that was a little too early for now. As he gets more experienced, that will end up being good timing.>Our session was longer because he seemed concerned with the beeping going on at the house behind us and also sounds at the farm across the street. >
Yes, the beeping was LOUD! If it was that loud on the video, I can imagine how loud it was for him in the moment. I think that distraction started at about 4:00 approximately, when was trotting out of the tunnel, then he also missed the tunnel at the end of the rep.
After that the beeping became really obvious – maybe it was happening when he had slowed down just before it? His hearing is better than mine LOL!
That beeping was a LOT so it was good to just let him assess it. He looked like he just needed social support with you staying near him, as he figured out what the heck the beeping was. And you can try a pattern game to help him out. He is sensitive to the weird noises like that (sirens, etc too) at home so pattern games might help.
And to be honest, I think it is pretty normal for him to be distracted by the beeping. Most of my dogs would also be distracted. Dublin was not freaking out or acting terrified – it was more like “what the heck is THAT? WEIRD!” So letting him think about it, the throwing the toy was good!
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
>helpful context for the science part of my brain. >
I figured you would not be mad about the science LOL! The science is compelling and often counterintuitive to how we have trained for a long time.
>We’ll keep making sit more fun in low pressure situations with high ROR so we get a bit more +CER for it so that piece doesn’t contribute. >
Yes, definitely! And do it in higher arousal (even if they are easier sits) so that you are capitalizing on the state-dependent memory aspect of it all.
>Well also work same process with other positions like down and stand so we get +CER and then work up to some of the 3 D’s with all the possible position before we take it to the field. >
Yes – for the agency part of it, these positions are not cued. Basically, we use the context cue of being in front of a jump or tunnel (or being on a cato plank if he uses that for stays). I line the dog up without cueing a position, let the dog settle in… then I lead out a few steps and release or throw a reward back. I have added a ‘stay’ verbal meaning: choose your position and don’t move please and thank you 🙂 Then I give them a few seconds – each dog does indicate when they have chosen, it is individual but also really cool: you will see them settle and lock in. Some look at the handler, some look at the obstacle. And get those rewards in before there is movement.
And his position of choice might be weird and unexpected LOL! One of my whippets often chooses a down (wtf, whippet?!?!) and never even responds to a down cue anywhere else in life. But he offers a down and holds the stay until released, so I roll with it LOL
>circle behind (as long as he’s not getting nutty about it or losing stimulus control on that stuff since I feel like that’s a real possibility from what I’ve seen). >
Yes, cued not offered for that behavior! LOL!!
>I have really given him a lot of choice and control to opt out and used other start methods so far. Just starting to feel like it’s time to start helping him through that stuff before it’s cemented.>
Yes, that is why I think position agency will be easy and fun to add!
>I’m also going to go back to Cato board and then fade to smaller sit targets for a while. He appreciates clarity and I think that will help him if I don’t rush to fade it too soon (which I think I did our first go ‘round).>
You can! You can use it as an offered sit prop, rather than cueing the sit, if you want to wire in more offered sits (you were cueing it in the teeter video, which is fine, but wires in the stand as the first impulse). And use state dependent memory to benefit that by adding higher arousal. I would put it through the impulse control framework too, it will make it easier to fade But also… the end result of all the training might be that he chooses a stand on the start line (or a down, if he is a weird whippet hahaha) and we go with it 🙂
>I’m using like those little licky tubes of treats (like the original cat Churu type but for dogs) so he has something yummy to lick when he gets to the end.>
What is the name of this product? I am working on getting UKI to allow food products in the ring for NFC runs. Does it drip at all? I tested a whole bunch of food products for UKI but they are hard to convince.
He did really well here! He looked super confident: even when he kind of slipped off, he was still happy to get back on. Yay!!
Adding the wrap before it and your running – all good! He was more stimulated but still really strong with the teeter behavior here. SUPER!!!As you continue to progress the teeter drop, add more tugging between reps – it can be tugging before he gets on his sit platform, or it can be tugging before you send to the wing wrap – just to capitalize on that critical state-dependent memory at each step. He is going to be ramped up in the trial ring running courses, so we can get the accurate behavior in high arousal even in these early stages.
Great job here!!
TracyHi!
>Yes, did too big of party with the reverse retrieve, will try it being quiet.>
It was a party-worthy moment! But he was surprised by the excitement 🙂
>Will work on being closer on the rear cross – honestly I work so much on lateral distance (need it with the BC that I default to it) and I’m always trying to get students away from their dogs!>
Right! Normally I bug everyone to move away LOL but for these rear crosses, we want you right next to him so you can get ahead again.
Looking at the video:
Nice tugging at the start here!!Yes, the first bunch were backside circle wraps which are good to train on. For those, be sure you are not blocking his line to the barrel. Your position would be where the bump and barrel meet, so he can zip directly around the barrel and you can be moving up the line behind him (another place to be very close to him).
You switched to threadle wraps – which hand(s) are you going to use at the beginning of the cue? There were some differences 🙂 so as soon as you start cueing it, show him either both hands or one hand. Then let him turn himself away without you needing to move your hands at all – I think he will be happy to turn himself away!
Tunnel double whammy went well too! Same question about the arms here as with the threadle wrap on the jump: are you using dog-side arm or opposite arm? In this scenario, it didn’t really matter because he read the context really well. Smartie!
When it goes into bigger sequences, we will want to have a consistent cue: At 3:10 you had the outside arm engaged, and 3:48 was all dog-side arm. This might be a good scenario to use the opposite arm because it will be very visible on course (when the dogs are often heading directly towards the other end of the tunnel LOL!). When you are running your other dog, which arm do you use? We will want to do the same thing with both dogs.>Question – do you see anything major that I need to lean into with this puppy so far?>
Great question! I think you have done a lovely job building up his toy play without losing his food love and also without tipping into overarousal. So his skills are progressing really nicely!!!
He is still supper young (6 months, approximately?) so the engagement you are getting is also lovely! And he is really young so we won’t see full blast running mechanics as he is sorting things out – but I prefer the thoughtful sorting out at this age, then the fast running comes after it without losing the skill. Yay!
I guess the only thing to watch out for are keeping the starts of sessions and reps cleaner: he often comes into a session or a rep and starts offering, to be called back even if it was correct behavior. But when you begin with a line up or even just chatting with him like you did at the tunnel session, it sets up cleaner starts and more accuracy along with speed.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
She definitely had fun in the tunnel! LOL!
Question: which hand are you going to use for tunnel threadles on course? These were dog-side hand and it might be hard for her to see that in the heat of the moment on course. Outside hand up high & across the body might be something that works better on a full course while running.>Should I go back to tunnel threadle verbal with the short tunnel before coming back to to 10 foot with the double whammy?>
I think you can stay on the 10 foot tunnel and reward a little differently to show it to her:
When you were doing the double whammy, you might need to reward her for coming to your side and not putting herself back into the tunnel 🙂 When you were asking her to come to you and not go back to the tunnel, she was skeptical 🙂 So a reward will get her to your side and then you can send her 🙂 then it will be easy to convince her to do 2 in a row.
Great job here! See you tonight in class!
Tracy
Tracy
Hi –
The threadle wrap warm ups looked good here too! Be sure to keep your feet facing forward n the line – when you changed sides, your feet were facing the barrel so she correctly asked which side to be on.When you added the other barrel: be sure to not change your mechanics. You had your dog-side arm doing the cue on the first couple of reps, so be sure to give yourself a mini walk through before getting her involved. When you did the correct hand, it made a lot more sense to her.
You can see you were helping her a lot with turning away (you were turning too) so definitely work on her turning herself away without you having to move your hand or feet to do it 🙂 That is the next step and will be fun!
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi! Looking at the threadle wrap: She was getting the idea of turning away nicely!
>The pressure of being between the barrel and me is definitely uncomfortable for her but I think we’re making progress. >
Yes – you can keep rewarding her for coming in and also, you probably don’t need to be as close to it as you were here 🙂
>Also, using opposite arm for me is very HARD but I think I can see the benefits and I’m going to give it a shot.>
Yes! It makes things very different-looking than dog-side hand would be, and that is going to be very useful on course.
Getting your hand in really fast helped otherwise she was right to offer wrapping the more obvious way.
The next step is to fade out moving your hand around the barrel: let her see the cue and turn herself away without extra hand help from you 🙂 Then throw the cookie reward with the other hand.
Nice work!
Tracy
Hi!
She is doing well with the backside slices! To take things to the next level, think of these as motion-based cues for the middle of the course, and not stepping to the backside or a look forward like the first jump. This means you will be moving before the release. That will get the look forward and also get her finding the backside with you in motion and progressively further away. You can see she was finding the backside but you were stepping towards it. Because you were stationary on the release, when you were further away she was zigging towards you then had to go back out.For now, as she is rounding the backside entry wing: look at the landing spot and throw the reward there. In the moments when she went past the bar, you were looking at her which turns your shoulders so the bar is not indicated. But since we want it to be a default behavior, you can drop the reward in immediately to condition her to look for the bar and not at your line of motion 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
Overall, this went really well! Yes, there were a couple of misses but after watching this, I think the context cue of walking/energy change actually cued her to *not* take the jump in those instances. Here is what I mean:
She was going out of her way to find it when you were jogging like at (:14) when she almost missed it then really worked to take it. Yes, she did have a miss on your right side while you were jogging but one miss is not a big deal (in fact it can be helpful – no jump means no reward!)
When you were walking with her on your right (like from 1:16-1:21), you were pretty far from the jump, total energy change, and kind of walking towards where the teeter is – so it is entirely likely that context there read as “just go with mom, don’t work the jump”.
But when you were walking with her on your left (1:23) and on your right at the end, you were more on a line that incorporated the jump, so she read it really well!
So two suggestions to answer your question:
>What more can I do to get her to go ahead of me to the jump?>
For the handler movement:
Start with her but maintain the “we are still doing the thing” energy, maybe with a little bit of ‘ready ready ready’ after she finishes her treat and before you move again, then start brisk walking up the line towards the jump. I bet she moves to it almost immediately. Start this with her on your left, as that seems to be the stronger side. Then move to dog on right, which seems harder.For the reward:
You can move up the timing of the marker & throw, so you are marking her decision to look at and step towards the jump. That will mean the marker & throw happen before she gets to the jump which will produce more propulsion ahead 🙂
And for the reward itself:
“The treat was a chunk of cheese, but she still had trouble finding it even though I was in the hackberry lite section of the yard. “
HAHA Hackberry Lite! Love it!
The cheese is indeed high value! You can use a lotus ball as the treat delivery or treat hugger) I know you have at least one of these but can’t remember which?) Or, you can throw one of her ball toys – she will be super energized for that and the types of toys tend to elicit more looking ahead.Yes, that will mean re-loading between reps, or getting the toy back (trading for a treat, getting a retrieve, using a 2nd toy are all options) so there will be fewer reps but that is perfectly fine because they will be strong, fun reps 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
He’s doing so well even with the class distractions happening right next to him! Good boy!The bows are going well with you moving a bit more. He was sometimes offering back feet on it, so maybe elevate the target so he steps up onto it to bow when it is on the flat rather than go across it.
The head turning is also going really well. I love that he appeared to recognize it right away and offered a beautiful head turn.
You can try this with a toy reward now: continue to use low hands to cue the turning away… but have a toy visible then reward with a toy. That will challenge him to set up great turns even when he is more excited 🙂Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi! Sounds like a really fun weekend!!
Threadles are going really well 🙂 when you revisit them, you can put a wing (or barrel) on the entry side so she gets more of a true visual of what she will encounter. And you can delay the MM click til she looks at the bar: that will help solidify the heading to the bar independently after coming to the threadle side. Putting yourself closer to the jump will help with that – close enough to touch the upright.
The backsides are going well- she easily found the backside, she drove around looking for the bar (yay!) and she played with the toy (double yay!!)
The next steps here would be at add the backside verbal with you moving up the line in this position.
We also want to add you being further away, but we would need to her either start from a stay so you can be ahead and moving before the release, or a cookie toss start. The cookie toss start might mean she won’t be into the toy, but that’s fine too 🙂
Pivoting is also going well! She is definitely stronger pivoting towards your left side as you saw. I think a big component of that is probably your side preference and mechanics 🙂 when you were getting her moving all the way around, you had really good hand mechanics: low hand, palm facing her, turning her head slightly. On the other side, you were waiting for her to offer and she was waiting for you to cue it 🙂 at first your hand mechanics were not as smooth but then at the end, you started showing her the same mechanics and she started going all the way around. Yay!! So when pivoting to your right side, show her the hand down low and turning her right away, and she’ll pivot really well 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
