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Hi!
>He said the toy was not an appropriate reward for this activity, at least not today.>
The toy might have been too short or he was feeling grudgey from the hold?
>Is the hold to start critical? He seemed to jump and twist around when I was holding his collar.>
The hold is semi-critical: it allows us to attach the verbal s a lot more easily by saying them before he moves, so they become a cue separate from motion.
But we don’t want him to hate it! That will attach negative feelings and we definitely don’t want that. So you can give him a treat, slide your hand to his collar, then let him go pretty immediately for now. Then over time gradually build up the hold until he realizes it predicts good stuff about to happen 🙂
He did super well with the bumps here! I think you were very quietly saying the verbal? It was hard to hear, which is fine as long as he hears it 🙂 If you were not using them, you can totally add them even without holding him yet.
He did great with find my face! I think it is a good resilience game for him because I don’t think he thought it was totally fun yet – he seemed kind of like “wait, where are you going, human?” But then rewards were definitely welcomed 🙂 so with a few sessions of this under his belt, he will think it is fun when you disconnect 🙂
He did see to think the revere retrieve was TOTALLY fun though – the running around was super fun. I think part of the reason why he might not have been bringing it directly back (a couple of fly-bys for example) was context: this was a wide open field for running, versus a ‘work’ situation.
So I am curious to test the theory and see if it brings it directly to you or tries for the second toy, when the opportunity to ‘work’ is available. That can be one of his favorite games (like tunnels with the Auntie :)) The wide open field may elicit more of a ‘yeehaw! run around response where the context of a training scenario might elicit a bring it right back response, to be able to earn it again (it is the moment of being told he has earned it that can create the big dopamine spike :))
For the next reverse retrieve session, try incorporating it into a fun training setup and see how it goes! And if. I’m wrong 😂 then we will take a different approach to get him to bring it all the way back 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>I have a tendency to rush things and think that sets us up for sloppy cues. it’s based on not trusting her commitment so rushing setup cuz I think I’m going to “lose” her attention. I’ll work on cleaning them up.>
I can totally relate to the pressure of keeping a puppy engaged! But I don’t think you were rushing – it was more that the big visual of the super fun toy was overriding the other cues. It is easy to see on video but much harder to see or feel in the moment.
She was SUPER with the serps! The thing I was MOST excited about was the stay. You lead out, stoped, started moving again (all good!) and then released… and she held her position til the release on just about all of them – one was a little early but the rest were great.
>It looks like I should have the reward dish further out so that she can really drive forward from me. >
Yes, on the serp and the threadle, you can place the reward bowl where the next jump would be on a traditional serp or threadle, so on kind of an L shaped line pretty tight to the serp or threadle. That all get her turning nicely to the next line.
>Also noticed that my position seems to collapse for the threadle, much better when I’m able to remember to keep my arm/hand away (and chest aimed that way as well)>
I think the threadle cue can be a bit more exaggerated, in terms of the threadle arm swinging back and more twist at he waist. It is actually almost exactly the same as the serp cue – but the threadle cue has a different positional cue attached to it, a different verbal, and you can also swing your arm back on the threadle if you like.
On these screenshots, you can sew how ‘open’ the serp cue is, and so you can make the threadle cue look the same! And staying in position a heartbeat longer until she is coming to you will help too.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-mUhv2i-YaXHJNH_cf1H3zImSKRgDCQ0VdlmbiZE55Q/edit?usp=sharing
On the misses, such as at :54 & 1:22 the verbal was good but as you moved, your shoulder closed forward so she took the front.When that happens, tell her she is cute (truth!) and give a reset cookie 🙂
When your shoulder was ,ore open when she was on your left side in the last part of the session: she did much better! The open shoulder plus holding position a little longer really helped.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
He looks so good with his new haircut! What a cutie!!!
I agree, he did really well with his stays here and seems to be handling the environment really well! He seemed VERY pumped up but held the stays really well with big distractions.
He took off with the toy one time because he really did not know it was not allowed LOL but thankfully he didn’t go far. It took him a moment to hold the stays when you did not have a cookie in your hand but then after a couple of reps, he was back to being perfect. What a good boy! And there was some significant barking in the background!
He was lining up well but then he appeared to think the stay hand cue was a cue to do a hand touch 🙂 He held the stay really well when you didn’t do the stay hand cue, so I don’t think you need it.
Next up is leading out with quicker motion, so you are walking faster then we build up to jogging to your lead out position.
>I tried doing the moving serpentine before we left for the trial but it did not go well so I think we need to practice more without movement. >
Was he going around the jump and directly to the toy on the ground? That might mean you need to move more slowly and look at the target hand (and shake it a little :))
> It was maybe my mechanics with the cookie toss…>
Yes, it is possible the angle of the cookie toss was too hard?
>I have not used the sit/stay for any of the games yet. Not sure if I should?>
You totally can! Start with it just on the flat, no jump: move into the ‘strike a pose’ position, praise, then release – be sure you are not moving your hand and releasing at the same time, because then he will think the hand movement is the release. But yes, I bet he is ready for you to use the stay for that game.
Nice work!
Tracy
This is a good video to have! When we are trying to figure out what was happening, I first watch to see where the dog is looking because that is usually the easiest tip-off.
In this clip, she seemed to be unsure of where to look what to do when the toy was very visible as she was coming to you after exiting the tunnel: was it a take the toy moment, or was it a turn away moment? She didn’t recognize the turn away cue with that toy in your hand. (It was a really exciting looking toy and she is only 25 weeks old :))She did well going to the tunnel when the toy was not in the send hand and you stepped to the tunnel. And when you said tunnel but didn’t move, she moved to the toy.
So I think clarifying the cues will help. Two approaches:
– cue the turn aways with an empty hand, so there is no question from her about whether she should follow the hand cue or look at the toy.
– the toy can be in the send hand sometimes and also you can do turn aways on the flat with the toy in the dog-side hand. When you do that scrunch it up to minimize the visual of the toy and also clarify the verbal that means she may grab it from your hand (my verbal for that is ‘bite’). She seemed to know it was not just a ‘grab the toy’ moment but didn’t really know she should turn away from the hand. I do give her a gold star for not just launching at the toy or grabbing your hand!I think the leaves are just normal “ooh these are crunchy and interesting” puppy stuff, and at the end of this clip she knew the tunnel thing was not going quite right so she turned her attention to the leaves. So if the session is not quite right, no worries, keep your energy high so she stays fully in the game as you try to adjust to help her out.
Nice work here! I will keep you posted about the upcoming Maxpup stuff!
Tracy
Hi!
>Tunnel needed tunnel huggers – yikes!>
Yes! She did a very good job of not getting caught!
> bar kept dropping>
Yes, that bar did come down a lot! I think 2 things were happening:
If you were facing straight and turned late (when she was in the air) or backed up, she didn’t adjust in time and hit the bar (like at :21 and 1:17).And it came down on a couple of starts – on those, I think she was too close to the jump and didn’t have enough room to push from her rear. Compare 1:23 to 1:28, for example. She was maybe a stride further away at 1:28 and cleared it nicely! At 1:23 she was just a little too close and didn’t set up her hind end well to push off.
>she took the wrong side of the wing. >
On the tunnel exits, you can be more connected to show her which side of the wing you wanted – on the reps where she curled in and you didn’t want that side, you were looking forward and a little early with the turn cues. So to keep her on the line, big connection made it much smoother for her to go find the wing.
Great job!
Tracy
Good morning!
Tunnel to the straight line went great! She was happy to drive ahead of you from all of the starting positions there.
You can use bigger, louder GO verbals that get repeated more to really emphasize the go in situations where you need her to ignore the jumps on the side.I think you were trying to use a spin to get a tighter turn on the tunnel exit for a few reps – maybe to not have her take the jump at all? If you didn’t want the jump at all, a FC before she goes into the tunnel separated from the BC of the spin (which is a FC-BC combo) can work along with a big collection verbal. To cue the turn to the jump, the spin would put you too far behind – but she did really well following your line through the blind crosses there!
Turn versus Go was harder for sure! I think she didn’t really know that going straight was a possibility and was defaulting to turning left to the jump. You shifted gears really well and basically taught her the concept that yes, you CAN layer that jump and go straight when she is ahead of you! That is a good starting point for the next session and it is a very useful skill.
You can also leave a reward out there past the jump, as long as it is out there for every rep including the turns where she does not go to it. That will make it easier to reward when she is driving straight (and make it harder to get the turn).
Great job!
TracyGood morning! These went really well! The feedback is boring because it is basically: that was great! LOL!
She is off to a great start with the Minny Pinny, happily zipping around it! You did a great job of fading out your shoulder movement so she was able to do it more and more independently.
Since this went so well, you can add in the bumps for her to go over (starting with the one on the middle wing) and then add in your left/right verbals 🙂Find My Face also went really well. She was happy to reconnect with you and I was excited to see she was offering that engagement on both sides not defaulting to your left or right side only. Super! I think the hardest part was finding the treats in the grass 🙂 You can add more of your movement, walking back and forth a bit with that disconnect so she gets used to seeing it with motion too.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi!
The reverse retrieve went well! Perfect rainy day game!
She is doing well bringing it to you. Sometimes she doesn’t grab it – I think if instead of saying ‘break’, you say get it (which is also a release verbal) – I think that will consistently get her grabbing the toy as you run away.
She appeared to have dropped the toy on the 2nd retrieve when you reached for the new toy, so you can delay the reach or have it in your hand the whole time 🙂
>The second time I tried to reward with a second toy (4th retrieve I think), I wasn’t successful in getting her on the second toy. I>
It was a good toy but not as high in value perhaps? Also, maybe it was moving towards her or squiggling in front of her and needed to be moving away from her more. When you moved towards her with it, she moved away (that was when she had a bit of a ‘catch me’ moment). So you can get the new toy more active and moving away from her to see if that helps her engage with the new toy.
>She seems to have on and off moments. >
This is generally normal with early adolescent brain development. They know something one day, but not the next day, then they know it again 2 days later.
>Set up the video yesterday to capture her brilliance and she was all over the place – everywhere but in the tunnel! What gives? Where’s my brilliant girl? Does she know the video is running? I Threw in the towel on tunnels, did some MinnyPinny’s, which she loves, played a bit more and called it a day. should I handle these situations differently?>
Those videos are actually extremely helpful! It allows us to see what was different and why the cues were not making sense to her. So if you have the video, post it so we can see what was going on. Sometimes it is something like the tunnel was wet and she got the ick from it, so she was avoiding it. Or sometimes we see or hear things on the video that she was sensitive to on that day (also totally normal) but we humans didn’t know it in the moment.
>I’m wondering if I should repeat Max 1 (since you’re offering it again) as we haven’t really worked through a lot of the advanced options for the exercises. I want to make sure we have a strong foundation and wondered if we would be skipping over important skills if we move on to the Max 2 class. Let me know what you thing.>
I think she is only in the 27 or 28 week range which is really young! So I am sorting out a discounted ‘repeaters’ option for the pups that might need to get a little more experience with the advanced level stuff before moving on to MaxPup 2 (which is more ideally suited for 8 months or so as a starting age). I hope to get that sorted out soon, stay tuned :)
Nice work here!
TracyHi!
>She will be 6 months in Jan. 4 1/2 months now. >
It is easy to forget how young she is!
>Also, whatever side I start with seems to be her best side. She gets tired or bored. Should I just do one side per session? I know, I know. Less reps per session. Baby brain.>
Yes – fewer reps, one side per session on anything new, set a timer. Baby brain indeed!
She did well with the barrel here, the concept seems to have transferred well! The cleaner your transitions from tugging into the send, the better she did. If you were too quick to send, she had questions: for example, if you got the toy back and sent but she was still looking at the toy, she would remain focused on the toy. But when you got the toy back, took a moment to connect, then sent – she was highly successful! You can also give treats as part of the transition to help get the toy back and set up the next rep.
At 1:20ish you said you were taking a break but then did a pattern game. Bear in mind that the pattern game is still work – it is just different work. A break would be getting to run around with the toy or chewing a bone or a snuffle mat or any extended period of not working 🙂 And because she worked through the break, we can see some changes in state and mechanics when you went back to it – not as easily sending to the new side, jumping up more, etc.
So for now, do one side for a minute or 90 seconds, take a break where you leave the game entirely for several minutes so she can have a mental break – and come back to the other side eventually. That won’t be as necessary as she matures but for now, it will help her a lot!
>If you think we are ready for Max Pup 2 I’ll sign up. Dot seems a bit young still. I’d definitely repeat max pup one if you’ll then have 2 after the Jan class. >
We will definitely have a MaxPup 2 after a January MaxPup 1. I am also thinking of doing a ‘repeaters’ module of MaxPup 1 for any of the really young pups who want to keep working on the advanced level games, etc, before carrying into MaxPup 2. I hope to hash that out either this weekend of next week.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hi! This went really well. Flipping the setup to work the harder side was smart!
Tunnel sends and layering the jump looked great! The only thing to add here is to use the same exact handler path but get the push to the backside of the jump instead of the tunnel.
On the BC to the backside – this was also really good! You can reconnect sooner so he can adjust his line sooner – he was moving straight for an extra stride or two until you made connection on the new side.
The FC was better in terms of getting the new line sooner (lower body rotation and not having to break connection were the key) but you will get further ahead on a big course with the blind.
>Again with the tunnel exit I didn’t cue it well and even on our second attempt I called it close to the tunnel entrance, but at least he came out looking toward me that time.>
You definitely cued the turn before he entered on the 2nd attempt (last rep) and he exited really well! Keep working on cueing the tunnel exits super early, so it is 2nd nature for you both.
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi! This is going really well!!
Most of the session was super accurate (and fast, as usual LOL!). She did really well with the verbal-only section!!! And the handling challenge went great too. A few spots of note:
She had one blooper, and it was at :32 – she started moving before he really ‘heard’ or was processing the verbal and just took off. Oops! You held he longer on the next rep and she got it.
During the handling: you were late on the jump verbal at 1:08 (you said it when she landed but you can be saying it as she is taking off for the previous jump) but she adjusted like a superstar!
Nice job with the timing of the turn cues on the tunnel to set up the threadle slice. It looked pretty tight but you can also call her urgently to see if she can drive back even faster.
Another really good thing: the verbals are sounding really different which is going to help with processing as you add more motion!
Speaking of motion: you can start to ramp up your motion with the handling to challenge her to process the verbals even as you are going faster and faster.
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
This went really well and ignoring that toy on the ground was HARD! Good boy!! I agree – he was very happy and engaged even though it was a hard game!
He did well with his stay and you did well giving feedback on what the release was (and when he self-released 🙂 He did REALLY well ignoring the toy to come to the hand for the serp and threadle!!
>I realize that I should have sent him to a dead toy instead of throwing one.>
The thrown toy was FUN, though 🙂 so I can’t complain about him having a great time during a game where you had to be completely stationary! The dead toy adds a significant challenge of ignoring it then going to it then bringing it back, so the reps with the thrown toy were a nice break from the impulse control challenge.
He did really well with the toy on the ground: you can use your toy marker even sooner now, cueing him to go to it even before he touches your hand. We are going to fade out the actual hand touch and get the in-the-out, because that will then allow you to start moving.
The more he works this with the toy marker, the more he will recognize the setup and start sending himself to it – so even if he kind of side-swipes your hand, you can still send him to the toy.
And I must admit that he is THE CUTEST DOG EVER when he brings it back. He prances it back to you and engages brilliantly. Adorable and excellent!
Great job!
Tracy
Hi!
>When I submitted my last Minny pinny video I was using verbals and you told me it was too soon. I actually listen sometimes! :). So, you are correct I did not use them this time.>
Ah yes! She was not quite zipping around it last time and the verbals seemed more distracting than helpful. But she is zipping around the setup really well now, so it is time to add the verbals.
> Should I add the jump bumps too? If so, all three or just the center one?>
Add the center one without the verbals for a rep or two. If she zips around it, add the verbals. And if she zips around the setup, you can add the other bumps in the next session.
>I’m hoping to try rocking horse tomorrow or Friday outdoors with the portable laundry baskets. But, it’s supposed to rain again so it depends how soggy my grass is.>
Since the weather is not fully cooperating, you can play with revisiting the laundry basket inside, just playing with one and build up the value for it.
>Yes, she’s definitely more engaged. Yay! Some progress.>
It is fun to see!
>Are you running Max Pup one again in Jan? I thought I saw a FB post about that. I feel like I’ve left out a ton of material. But, otherwise we’ll just move on to Max Pup 2.>
Yes, probably mid- to late-January in a slightly different format. But also, MaxPup 2 works great for pups who have done the baby level of all the various handling games. Anything in the advanced level gets built in really nicely in MaxPup 2. How old will she be in January?
T
Hi!
>I’m going to use your word “kiss kiss” for tunnel. I have not done this one before. I use “pull pull” for threadles in general.>
I used to have one word for any type of threadle…. But then the judges got even wiser and put jumps right next to tunnels, so the dogs needed separate verbals to know if they should threadle the jump or the tunnel. Darned smart judges LOL!
She did great in the session here! I thought she was going to start without you as you were getting ready at the beginning LOL!
She seemed perfectly happy to turn away on cue in both directions (after almost clonking her head the first time turning to the left). She has a little ore trouble turning to the left when you were fading your arm help a bit towards the end, s for now keep that little bit of hand ‘swoosh’ to help her turn away to the left.
You can extend the length of the tunnel and add the double whammy game – I think she is ready for it!
Threadle wraps – she is definitely beginning to get he concept here! One thing that I think will make them even smoother: You can lower your hands for now, to help her turn away. Try giving the hand cues don by your hips (closer to her nose level).
Having your hands up at chest level was causing her to look up a bit which made it harder to turn away. When your hands were just a little lower at the beginning of the 2nd side (left turns) she got the turns better! When you brought the hand cue high again, she had some questions. And when you are running and using this cue on course, the hand cues will probably be lower, so working that in these early stages will be good for you both!Great job here :)
Tracy
