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Hi!
>>I also tried to make sure I was moving slowly. I do have a tendancy to run at things. >>
Yes, and they like to go fast fast fast! So there is a bit of muscle memory to unwire to tighten the turns up, but she is getting it!
I watched this video and froze the screen every time you said the left or right verbal. Most were when she was about a metre from the tunnel entry… which I think is too late for her. My favorite was at :12 – she was a solid 2 metres from the tunnel on that one and I think that was also her best turn!
One other thing about the verbal: say it more that once. Tunnel tunnel! is very exciting and propels her forward. So the left and right should be lower in energy (riiiiight riiiiight riiiiiiightt) and I suggest saying it several times so she can process it before, during and after the tunnel 🙂 That will really help!One more thought about tight turns: from now on, let’s have her get all turn rewards from you hand (or right near you): by throwing the toy out on the line, she is not exactly looking for a turn, she is looking to stay on the big line for the toy 🙂 So – after the left or right, run away on that approximate line and get her to chase you for the toy. Yo can be calm in the motion until she is in the tunnel: then take off and run for her to chase you for the reward. That way she will shift to looking for your new line and not looking ahead for the toy. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
>>Fancy Gap upload speeds make me crazy.>>
I feel this deeply, to my very core LOL!
On the video, lots of good reps but we can totally get rid of a lot of the errors here too! 2 main things:
First thought is about handling mechanics of the serp (and eventually, the threadle too): keep your shoulders in that open position until after he arrives at the MM. You are closing them forward as he passes your leg, which is too soon. Think of the MM as the next jump in the serp, which is cued by the open shoulders on the serp. If you close your shoulders too soon, he will run right past the next jump of the serp line. He won’t run past the MM because, well, cookies 🙂No worries about the early MM beep at :32, it marked the intent to come in. In a perfect world he would have continued to come in, but the click still marked that decision to come towards you 🙂
The other thing has to do with the misses:
>>I’m not seeing another explanation for his not coming in there, but you probably will>>
I think the tossed treats to get the behavior started are actually doing more harm than good, in terms of the efficient line up for the next rep. A couple of things were happening – he was sniffing a bit (understandable, gotta get the treat!) and then after getting the treat, he didn’t have that moment to see and process the cue of the upper body versus the lower body. And when he was very quick to get the treat and come back into the rep, you were a little late showing the serp cue – by the time you got it going, he had already made a decision which didn’t happen to match what you were looking for (examples of this were at :51, 1:14, 1:21, 1:28). When he could see and process the cue before making the decision, he was consistently accurate and fast.
So… time to install some type of stay to start it 🙂 This will raise the rate of success! It might mean a backtrack on the level of difficulty (no MM in the picture, just a reward from your other hand) and lots of rewards for the stay. You can make the picture smaller by just having a wing there or even nothing at all, just a lead out. And you can make the stay easier by using a mat or a cot or something. But the distinct start position and also the cue to begin the rep will make the process more efficient and more successful, with the side benefit of getting the stay going before the jump 🙂
If he is anything like my dogs, you will probably spend a few sessions on just the ‘stays are AWESOME FUN’ behavior near a wing or on a mat, then it will click into place and you can take it back to the jump.Let me know if that makes sense! I know stays are not always the most popular way to start reps because we are all worried about making them fun and not getting stress – so take it away from the serp stuff for now (because when he sees the serp cue, he nails it) and make it a super fun game in front of the jump. He is doing well on the wing for the zig zags so I think you will be fine here too 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood news about being in touch with Leslie too! And I believe Tricia also worked with Dr. Karen Overall, who is one of the pioneers in the behavior field and has been soooo helpful.
About the a-frame – I apologize for being the fun patrol… but you should block it off so she can’t run up and down it LOL! Two reasons to block it off: first, young dogs do silly things like leap off things and hurt themselves, so we need to make sure she doesn’t hurt herself.
Second, all of the running up and down it are rehearsing behavior that you don’t want when you will want her to do it for real (she will have a distinct criteria, like stopping in 2 on, 2 off at the end). So, better to block it off for now , sorry Ria haha 🙂Tracy
That is so interesting! I wonder if it is a Beardie thing? A lot of herding dogs struggle with tunnels (BCs, Shelties too) so there might be something to the not wanting to disconnect issue. But I know you will get it figured out, some straight tunnels lots of rewards will do the trick 🙂
>>Bounce used to come very teeth forward after them.>>>
bwahahahaha teeth forward, I am totally going to use that phrase. Sounds scientific, Voodoo approves LOL!!!!!!
See you in Gretna?
TracyGood morning! She looks wonderful here! She is totally getting it. The most important thing is going to be connection involving the tunnel. When she exits the tunnel, give her a strong connection in the form of very direct eye contact so she can find the line to the wing very smoothly. You might even think of it as looking for her eyes directly into the tunnel so she sees it before she exits. You can see that she has a little zig zag on the tunnel exit, looking for connection, on the exits heading towards the camera at :10, :25,
The connection will also help her get into the tunnel, like at :35 – as she exited the wing, connection was soft (she could not see your eyes) so she followed you feet and shoulders directly to the part of the tunnel where she jumped onto it LOL! Puppies are very literal LOL! So on the exit of that wing, make a very direct eye contact and run directly towards the tunnel, take nothing for granted LOL! It will get easier as she gets more experience 🙂
Her wing commitment is looking really good!!! The wraps look great and your connection in and out of them also looks great. Yay!! It looks like she thought the racetrack was a little odd, but she will get happier with it when she has more experience with it 🙂 And yes, keep working to get the directionals consistent – I couldn’t hear them that well with the mower noise so I will assume that they were perfect 🙂
Iam glad Kiefer and Bader got to play!!!! It is a fun game – you can also start to add a little more distance for Miss Cerid too, that will challenge your connections 🙂
Great job here!
TracyOh crud, I replied to this all yesterday right before I got on the road… and it is all gone!!! EEK!!! Sorry for the delay, here we go with round 2 LOL!!!! My home internet is making me SO MAD lately. Sigh.
Anyhoo: Lots of really great work here! I am going to urge you to split your training sessions into separate days – I think doing it all on the same day tends to create too much for her (she is not even 6 months old, right?) so some of the questions are mental/physical fatigue-related.
On the left/right rear crosses and backside wraps:
I like how she is reading each cue so well!!! A couple of ideas to make it even smoother:
On the go reps, try to stay outside the wing of the jump so you can keep running until after she has landed – that way she doesn’t see any decel associated with the Go cue (as that might confuse things when we add deceleration cues very soon :))On the rear crosses – she is reading them, yay! Rears are hard for baby dogs 🙂 I think she can read them sooner, before takeoff, if you hang out by the wing while she is wrapping, wait for her to be almost done, then start moving up the rear cross line. She will see it sooner AND get better at driving ahead, which should help her turn even sooner. You were sending to the wing then having to wait for her to catch up to you 🙂
On the backside wraps – she is being a really good girl here too! Your connection and cues looked great, it looks like she had no question that it was a backside. YAY! Try to show her more of the wing – you were running on her line a bit so she had to go around you, which widens the line. Your running destination is where the wing meets the bar, so she sees the full wing. If you get there before she does, decel and wait til she passes you: that also helps set up a nice turn.
And if she has an error (like when you ran out of there and she didn’t take the jump), resist the temptation to mark it with an ‘uh oh’ – that is a deflating marker for her, so if she has a question just show her what you want t hen reward.The Strike A Pose proofing is going well! One thing about this game – you can spread out the around the clock challenges into multiple sessions, especially on the threadles. You were doing a lot of difficult challenges so she had more errors than we would like at this stage. Plus, you were trying to help and ended up turning your feet on the threadles – and I think that might be why you get a bit bent over with the arm? When your feet were facing the tunnel, I thought your arm was great and you were not too bend over.
Bearing in mind that your feet should be facing the tunnel on all 3 cues here (that is what makes it so hard LOL!) you can be closer to the jump for the serps, to help get the second turn. On the threadles, for now, keep her on slightly easier angles on the clock til she can read the difference between serps and threadles without you needing to turn your feet at all. She is doing really well, we have plenty of time to add in harder angles 🙂The ladder grid is where I feel that she might be brain/body tired – she couldn’t quite get organized to bounce the distances. You were trying to help by moving, but it is better to let her sort it out when she is fresh. One thing that will help is to move the MM further away, so she can take 2 big strides to get to it after jump 3. Then, since she has such a good stay, you can lead all the way out to the MM, stand still, release 🙂 It might take her several sessions to get organized into the balanced bouncing, and that is totally fine 🙂 Movement is a distraction so she did go faster, but she shifted totally onto her front end. So do a couple of short sessions when she is fresh and just stand still – I bet she figures it out nicely because she is a pretty balanced girl 🙂
The Diamonds – these are fun, right? She LOVES this stuff too – and that is where I come in to remind you to do very short reps and focus on mechanics (I know, I know, I am a pain LOL!!!!). On the blinds, I think what was making you feel slow was that you were trying to do a lot all at once and you were losing the mechanics (toy was switching all around, etc). So just work the blinds in isolation, just one and reward – so you can keep the toy in the same hand and get the connection across the body. So if she begins on your left, the toy is also on the left and stays in the left so you can show it to her across your body after the blind to your right. That will tighten it right up!
And then, because her commitment to the wings looks REALLY strong, you can start doing the blind sooner: send to the tunnel and cue the wing when she exits: and just before she arrives at the wing, do the blind. But mechanics are more important than anything else on these, so feel free to break it down as needed.
On the racetrack sections – wheeeeee!! This is where I am also going to be a pain – try to do only 6-8 things in a row, then reward. Reward correct behavior before you or her mess up (generally the errors are human errors, like disconnections :)) You definitely got caught in the moment so the courses were 30 seconds long, which is the same length as a nice Grand Prix courses LOL!! So, less is more 🙂
I think of it like this: if we hold the reins a little at this age, focus on handler mechanics and training a lot of dog understanding, and follow the less-is-more approach: then when she is 18 months and heading into the ring, everything will be in place and you two will be amazing! So that is why I keep bugging everyone to do a little less in each rep and each session 🙂Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi – Great news about the training opportunities in USDAA and AKC!
>>Scenario is joyful zooms I don’t mind them but I’d like to do agility
Usually zooms are stress behaviors, could be brought on by any number of reasons – hard to tell without a deeper dive into it which we do in CAMP. But the general answer is to trial ‘for real’ less and with rewards in the ring more.
>>I’ve gotten to the point where a boundary in practice makes a good highly valued +R transition/reset however that won’t work in a trial… thoughts ideas? >>
Not sure what you mean by a boundary in practice?
Good morning! He is doing great!!!
One observation: when he hears the click of the MM while he is in the poles, he just about always hits the poles with his shoulders. Since we don’t want that rehearsal, delay the MM click til after he is fully exited. And you can also turn off the beep and give a quiet verbal marker then trigger the MM (he will hear the gears). Or, you can leave the MM there as a focal point and throw a reward instead.
His accuracy looks strong with all of the challenges (no worries about the one rear cross error, he will get that sorted out) and his speed look great… so onwards to getting the poles even closer together 🙂 How big is the gap? I think the next step is close the gap between the 2 bases, then finish getting poles 3-4 into the straight position. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
The toy and for bowl were big distractions for sure! I am glad you worked through the various options because when she is distracted, she hits the poles more especially when you are running. Cookie-in-the-bowl was the definite winner, partially because it got the weave behavior we like and it got her looking ahead better 🙂 Double yay!On the 2x2s, the rear crosses are really hard for her as she either hits the poles or lifts her head to much. So, leave the rear crosses to the channels where the visual of the channel keeps her driving straight and she doesn’t hit the poles.
I am thinking of other things we can do to teach her to not hit the poles on the right side sends (she is really good about not hitting them on the left side!) I am trying to help her preserve her body LOL! I re-watched her most recent channel session and she does not hit the poles on the right like she does on 2x2s… hmmm…. so 2 ideas:
using a cone or wing – do some backsidey sends from your right and click/treat when she does NOT touch it. Start with very little motion, let her think – and then over time, add more and more motion (it will also help her backside jumping).And for weaves… I think the next bunch of sessions should be all channels so she stops rehearsing smacking into the entry 🙂 And you can tighten up the channels on 6 poles pretty easily, plus it will help her get the swim striding (which is probably the correct striding for her).
Let me know what you think! She is doing really well so you can start to tighten up the channels 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Lots of good work here: poles almost together and straight, plus the opportunity to work in a new environment. Yay!!
A couple of thoughts:
About the cue: I think you have enough real weaving here that you can name the behavior – he is doing the weave action AND he is highly likely to be successful, so name it 🙂 As it gets harder in terms of the poles getting closer – let that be the variable that changes and only do relatively straightforward top-of-the-clock angles for the first session each time you get the poles closer. When you do the harder angles or rear crosses, he has to think more which causes him to lose striding a bit: so to get the striding fully developed, you can do relatively easy angles so all he needs to focus on is the striding.And once the weave cue is on, leave it on even if you work easier angles with other variables (like new locations, harder entries, or the completely wicked game I have ready for Monday hahahaha)
For the channels – you can angle them a bit more if he has been successful with them, and slap on the cue 🙂 Wheeee!
And yes to alternating back and forth, the methods complement each other nicely particulary for dogs like Kaladin who will bounce.
Yes to moving to the backyard, starting maybe a little angled and then proceeding from there (different location being the change in variable).
Now, with the 2x2s, we can decide how to approach them to get the striding on 4 poles: it can be what you are doing, getting the 4 poles straight and progressively closer. Or, you can get them to the regulation distance apart and a tiny tiny bit angled open – as much as needed for striding and success. Every dog is different – with both of my girls, I got to 4 straight up poles in a line with that slightly angled set at the very end of the progression to solidify the striding.Great job here! Let me know if this makes sense 🙂
TracyGood morning!
He is doing well here!
First up: channels! This session seemed really easy for him – the one miss on the hard entry is something you can do with less motion for now and see if that helps him? But I agree with your assessment: tighten up up bit more to get more striding. He was just beginning to wiggle here so you can try another half inch and see what he does.>>It’s funny that on channels, entering from one side is hard, but on 2x2s, it’s the other side he has issues with.>>
YES! I see the same thing. It is interesting! Must have something to do with the visual differences? Not sure. But definitely interesting!!!
Next up: 2x2s:
He had trouble on the straight entry with you running fast and throwing the toy… so try poles 1-2 straight without you moving but not as fast and see what he does. The straight poles plus running plus toy might have been too many variable changes, so we can prioritize: because he seems fine with the slightly angled poles 1-2 and motion and toy, the changed variable can be straight poles 1-2 so we dial back the motion and see how he does.One note about the 2×2 striding: we might, for him, leave the 2×2 track for a bit if he starts to bounce in 2x2s but swim in channels. I am not 100% sure yet which will be the most comfortable/fastest striding for him, we will know probably by early next week. But if he is a swimmer and the 2x2s produce bouncing… then we abandon the 2x2s for a while. That is pretty normal for large dogs and 2x2s! Even back in the days when I trained 2x2s with Susan G, at some point we had to create a channel with the 2x2s to get the big dog striding (she didn’t call it that, but that is what it was LOL!). So for example – my Contraband is a few weeks ahead of Presto because I started training the progressions about 3 weeks before the class started, so I had demo videos 🙂 And, about 2 weeks ago: I stopped all 2x2s with him to work the swim striding. The channels produced that, not the 2x2s and I did not want to have to go back and un-learn the bouncing. Presto might be on that exact same path 🙂 We will know soon!
>>No weaving tomorrow! Although, if I did 12 channels fully open, we are allowed to work other challenges, right? >>
Nope LOL! Day off fo weaving, all weaving. That will let him rest and also cement the learning as his brain wires it in. I know 12 straight poles is easier but the handling challenges require big bending into the entry, so I wouldn’t do it. For now, you can alternate days: teeter one day, weaves the next – not both on any given day, unless you are going to have several days off. Teeter is also getting into the part of training where it gets concussive on the body so we dial back the reps.
To avoid doing too many reps, I set a timer to 5 minutes (you might hear it in some of the videos): when the timer goes off, I either finish the rep I am doing or do one more. That 5 minutes includes all fo the getting the toy back, resets, line ups, etc – it ends up being not that many reps but a more efficient training session. I constantly remind myself that I get cranky when USDAA has 2 sets of weaves in Steeplechase and the weaves are the 7 in snooker, because that could be 6 sets of weaves plus Grand Prix plus standard… so that is 8 sets of weaves for a fit adult dog, which is a LOT! And that reminds me to not do 20 sets of weaves with my baby dog in a training session, even though it is so tempting LOL!!!
He is doing really well! Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGreat! A couple of days off is totally good to let the behavior percolate.
>>Looking forward to seeing the new videos. We won’t do them until she’s ready. >>
Exactly! No rush. The demo videos took multiple sessions over a couple of weeks to do, even if it looks like it is happening in just a couple of sessions (it is not LOL!) Some of the behaviors took 3 weeks – I started filming 3 weeks before the class started so I would definitely have videos ready 🙂 And looking at the calendar, I figure the last games package is released on the first Monday of May and then we can carry on through early June with getting to 12 poles. That is plenty of time to get the behavior without rushing or overworking.
Have fun! Stay dry 🙂
TracyHi!
I do measure food for my smaller dogs because even though they are pretty bottomless in terms of ability to eat… they also get fat pretty easily haha! So, sadly for them, meals are reduced when we train 🙂Doe he like balls? You can use balls are rewards too! And for FEO/NFC runs – I always bring 2 (or 3!) toys with me. If I throw or drop one, I call the dog back with the other because I don’t want to lose precious time if the dog runs around for a moment.
T
Good morning!
I am really happy with his progress so far with this!
Considering how this behavior is still new and recently transferred to the teeter, I think he is doing great. A couple of little suggestions:
Start him more right at the very end so he jumps on directly into position and does not take any steps down the board to get to the target. He will practically be leaping in sideways 🙂 which helps him balance and go directly to the target. When you were starting him a little higher, at the beginning of the contact, he was taking a few short steps into position and we want to try to eliminate those.
And for another couple of sessions, keep your walking to be very sloooooooow as he learns the weight shift and don’t step off onto the ground at all. When he is 100% with NOT stepping off then back on, then you can add more speed in your motion or more tip (not both at the same time, one or the other for a session, then the other gets added too 🙂Separately from the bang game, you can also start the elevator game with this same amount of tip! Check out the Elevator Game Part 1 – it is a bit of a pain with the handler mechanics but definitely will move him forward in the progression.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracySorry for the delay, I somehow missed this! Eek!
He is doing well here! I feel like he is progressing but still learning to love this particular game 🙂 Watch his tail set – it tells the story LOL! It started very low, very serious. Then got higher and more relaxed (before starting) and then nice and high as he ran down the board. He is still learning to balance and feel comfy, so because this has a lot of tip, stay at this level for 2 or 3 more short sessions until his tail is wagging before you release him to run down the board and while eating the target cookies. It is subtle but I think it will tell us about his internal state. Now, you won’t be able to see it during training, so look at the video afterwards and you will see 🙂
The teeter is basically parallel right now so there is no rush to add more to the tip. He has made fast progress so staying here for a couple more sessions will then allow us to move to the Uphill-Downhill Merge games 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
