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Hi!
>>Over all I think the slice is faster
I agree! The wraps can be a little tighter but I think the slices might still end up faster overall.
Some specifics:
Video 1:On this one, the slice definitely faster than the wrap – you can rotate sooner on the wrap (so your feet are already turned and facing the next line before he takes off) to tighten it up but I think the slice will still be faster on this particular line back to where the tunnel would be.
serp versus wrap:
interestingly, the 2 Watsons landed at the same time at :02! So the rest of the line would determine which would be faster.Slice Watson got around the wing faster than wrap Watson, but the next line would be the make-or-break moment: the position of the next jump here could be faster on the wrap!
Also to tighten the wrap, rotate sooner – at :01 your feet were facing the wrap jump when ideally they would already be facing the next line – so when he lands from the jump before the wrap, you would decel and as he is passing your feet, you would be rotating to point your feet forward through the gap (it will feel kind of like he is running across your feet)Backside comparisons:
The wrap here was faster but probably because it was smoother. On the slice, he had some questions which takes time (plus the yardage was longer which makes a big difference for the little dogs). Another good comparison to make on this sequence would be comparing the wrap her with the slice the other direction – entering the same side as you enter for the wrap, and exiting on the side closer to the dog walk/teeter. That slice might be the fastest here!Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Watching the videos, they were a mess!!! >>
Totally not a mess!!! This particular challenge is great but at first, it is a bit awkward LOL! It gets better and easier as you play with it, and it definitely helps trial runs.
>>y big problem is working out the timing of my cue with Nuptse’s landing and then cuing as you will see after #6 and then cuing 7 & 8. Trying to use verbals and execute lateral motion were similar to patting my head and rubbing my tummy, esp for a 180 or a serp!>>
That is why we work on it 🙂 You can have more of a blanket approach to the timing fomr something like 6-7-8-9″: when he is jumping 6, start cuing 7 and keep cuing it til he is well on the way to it, then switch to multiple cues to turn to 8. My approach for verbals is “early and often” 🙂 that way you don’t need to be perfect and you don’t need to worry about the physical cues as much.
On your walk through: Your pace was good, and perhaps even a bit faster than he goes (that might mess you up in places, so remember that he has to go through the tunnel and cover the ground in order for you to do the next cue – most of us are going to fast in the walk throughs :)) The verbals were pretty clear for the turns but you can add in the spots where you call him loudly or cue the obstacles. And definitely add in more connection during your walk throughs, try to make eye contact with your invisible dog especially after the crosses. On the crosses, you were either getting connection then looking forward too quickly while he was still behind you (4-5, 11-12) or not getting connection and lookign ahead (8-9) – in that spot it was hard to tell if you wanted the tunnel or the pink #2 jump there, like at 2:24))
Run – it went overall nicely! The pace of the run was slower than the walk through pace (which is better than the reverse, where the walk through is slower than the run). You definitely had better conneciton during the run, but if you practice the connection more it will feel even easier and more like second nature. I do notice that you changed your handling for the ending line after 9. That might have been because the different pace made it feel like it was better to ru n on landing side of 10? It worked, but changing plans won’t always work, so ideally it will be something to work out in the walk through.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Great job setting, walking and running this giant course!
In the walk through, your plan was clear but I think some of the little bobbles on the run were related to not having walked it as his pace – you got caught behind in a couple of spots on the run, and walking it at his pace (in other words, running LOL!) will help fix that before it happens 🙂 I realize it is a zillion degrees out so it might be something to do early morning or in the evening, depending on temperatures.When you plan with it again, small details to consider: I think doing the full front cross at 2 sent him a bit wide to 3, you can try a jaakko/throwback exit and see if that tightens the line to 3.
You called him for the weave threadle when he exited the tunnel, and I think that changed his line too late. You can add a turn cue before he enters the 4 tunnel and then start the weave cue while he is in the tunnel. I have added a weave-threadle verbal (“weave” super creative hahaha) for situations like this: I would call the dog’s name about 6 feet before he entered the tunnel then start the weave threadle cue when he was in the tunnel (and probably say it 50 or 60 times too LOL!)It was a little hard to see 6-7 line here but to do the backside to the threadle to the tunnel threadle, you would have to leave the weaves and basically push to the backside while you were basically on the exit wing of 6. Very doable, he has strong weaves! But this is a situation to compare the wrap on 7 to the slice – the wrap might end up being faster here, due to the line from the exit of 7 to the tunnel (fewer turns on the wrap, lots of turns on the slice). Yardage is probably similar or maybe slightly shorter on the wrap? But it would be good to compare landing of 6 to first foot on the dog walk! We timed something similar recently at an in-person seminar and the results were evenly split between the wrap and slice with the Border Collies. And you can also break out the handy dandy threadle wrap cue for 7: backside push at 6 then threadle/wrap on your left side at 7 (or backside push to a blind on 6 then a normal backside wrap with a blind on 7).
Little details for the 2nd half of the course: your FC on the 10-11-12 line after the DW can be sooner, but I will chalk it up to having just sprinted across the field in the zillion degree weather 🙂 And then after the teeter, you can be further across the 15 backside jump so you can get the blind in rather than rear cross there – the blind will allow you to get ahead to show the turn cue to 17 before he gets into the tunnel.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
Bummer about the UpDog being canceled, especially the Frizgility!This whole thing was ridiculously easy for him, in the best possible way. He seemed to have zero questions. Super! It might be harder with Min? This younger generation is less distracted by the crap in the way and all around them and quite good with following the handling – perhaps because of the proofing games we did during the winter? In my house, the younger the dog, the easier it was. Hmmmm! I am super happy with how he did here and I think you can try the bigger sequences with him!
>>How should you cue the jump to the purple tunnel on the left. It feels like a flick if you use the left arm but you’ve already run past the other tunnel entrance so it seems a bit weird to cue it like a tunnel threadle.
I don’t htink it is a threadle either, but I am sure you could make an argument that it is threadley enough because the dog has to come between you can the tunnel then turn away – I used a ‘get out’ to get the dog to shift away on the line (I use the outside arm for that) then a tunnel cue.
Nice work here!! Onwards to the bigger sequences (or if those are easy, you can make up your own too!)
Tracy
Yay! It is all there now. He is doing really well figuring out the stays! You can mix in tossing back some rewards to him especially as you move the MM further and further away, but I really like how successful he was here in the ‘missing’ footage LOL! Hope you are having a great weekend!
TracyHi! It should open in your email if it won’t open here? I’ll be posting all of the sequences and videos this afternoon, so you’ll have full access to it 🙂
TracyHi!
Lots of great work here! My ideas are really only about the little details of getting things as tight as possible and as fast as possible 🙂First up, Kippy!
The opening 1-2-3 has a right turn between 2 and 3. By leading out to the far side of 2, that kept him turning left for too long so he was wide at :03 and dropped the bar there at :31. To help him see the turn sooner, you can try a lead out push more on landing side of 2 to show the line, or start dog on left and run into a blind on landing side of 2 to show that line.
The middle section looked really good and you had particularly nice lines at 7 each time!The 8-9 section was the only tricky part for you, getting the cue to relate to 8 and not the 1 jump.
On the first rep at :15, the in in was late and did look relative to the off course he took because there was no turn cue on the 8 jump. You would need to begin cuing a left turn on 8 as soon as he exited 7. Same for the blind on the next rep, it can start sooner. The decel you added at :41 helped, but you were backing out of it then exploded forward so he read backside pressure there, good boy.The decel cue at :54 but maybe too extreme? Lol but it works! Lol! But slipping like that shows that you can change your decel mechanics to add more of it then move forward out of it. I think you are trying to decel sharply then scramble out of it, which is causing you to move backwards (or slip in a more extreme moment)
A couple of line suggestions to get tighter lines: at :58 before the tunnel (11-12-13), you don’t have to run as much towards the jump #12, you can lateral towards the 13 tunnel. That will get him turning over 12 better and more directly to 13. Moving towards 12 causes him to jump long facing the tunnel exit and makes you a little late on the blind.
You can really see it at 1:13, where he is center of bar on 12 based on your line of motion from 11.The 13-14 wrap is a decision point, it mirrors the first sequence we did when comparing things. Wrapping to his left might be faster here! Wrapping right worked but be sure to step very directly forward to the 15 tunnel out of it and not backwards – that widens the line there for him. That might be linked to add more smooth decel so you have an easier weight shift to the next line.
On the Closing line, you can run more directly towards 17 and that will set a better line at 1:20 and give you more chance to decel into the turn cue – by moving more towards 16, you were a little late on the blind and then blind then with all that momentum. stepped in to takeoff at 1:22 so he was wide on the exit of 17 and you were late getting out of there. So combining moving more towards the next jump after a blind to execute the cross, with sooner and more decel should make that section super tight and fast!
Emmie looked great! My suggestions with her are similar to the ones for Kippy, all about smoothing out some lines so things are even faster and tighter:
On the opening, trying to handle from landing side of 2 to get a better turn to 3 (lead out push or running into a blind)
The 8-9 section worked really easily with her! Yay!
Also, with her as well, you can move more directly to the obstacle after the blind rather than run towards the blind cross jump (jumps 12 and 16) to get a better turn and also better position for yourself. That will also set you up for the last FC on 17 to be sooner, which will be tighter on the turn and faster to the end.
I think it would be interesting to see the difference in wrapping 14 to the outside versus the inside with her as well.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>It could be the way I built it but turning to the left was the more direct route (less yardage) to the tunnel. But I am probably going to go look at it this afternoon and I might just do a quick comparison right to left on it for the collection part. I think those types of starts are hard for me to gauge the fastest route and if I actually compare it I might remember it better.>>
These starts are getting more common, so it is worth it to take a look. Walk the distance from your stay spots (start the dogs on slice lines in either direction but roughly the same distance away from the jump)
>>So with both dogs, I’ve played with this a bit and it comes down for me not trusting them enough. I have been waiting to see them taking the jump in my peripheral before making the turn for the BC. I didn’t think it made that much difference but watching the video it really makes both of the go a lot wider than what it seems when I’m running it.>!
Normal blinds don’t require a lot of trust or early timing, but the tighter ones do. Ideally, you would be finished with the blind and seeing them jump from the new side rather than the original side.
>>The other option there, since you were able to get pretty far ahead, is to do a forced front or forced blind on the takeoff side>>
>>This is an option I didn’t think of!
There are always takeoff side and landing side options for handling backsides. Because your dogs are pretty independent on their lines and because you have great foot speed, all options are available to you. I think the takeoff side handling here is also less running yardage for you to get to!
>>This was an ‘oh shit’ moment LOL.
Ha! I did see your facial expression change there lol!
Hi!
I think you will be well-prepared with Cowboy for the Countermotion at the seminar! Plus you can break it down and reward if he has any questions.
>>Yesterday, I did the lead out exercise at Get Rev’d Agility and forgot to hit the record button! >>
EEK! I totally feel that pain!
He did well on the sequences here! The stays were hard, as you mentioned – he wanted to release as soon as the thought even entered your mind LOL! So with the MM out ahead, you can alternate releasing forward to the MM with throwing reward back for the stay to keep building it up. He did a nice job on the stays here!
Question – is there a blank spot where the screen goes dark from 1:07 – 2:06 on your video, or is my internet going nuts? I couldn’t get anything to come up on that part of the video.
When you did the BCs 2-3 at 2:26 and 2:51, he is reading his line well so you can trust him more! When you release, try not to step in towards jump 2 at all – keep moving directly to 3 and let him find 2 on his own, based on your motion, connection and verbal. When you released him, your first steps were in towards 2 so he thought he was going to the MM. When you did the BC, he was landing straight and made the adjustment after landing. Your timing on the last rep of starting the blind was really good (it was a little late at 2:26) so keep working that nice early timing as you move up the line to 3.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I am glad the posting worked!
On the zig zag grid, he understands the concept! Yay! But he is rushing a bit – note how he is taking several steps between each jump and also hitting some wings and bars. So, we can help him out but giving him less room so he has to bounce. You can do that by overlapping the wings (rather than having them touch end to end) and, if needed, a shorter bar: 4 foot instead of 5 feet. And if these were already 4 foot bars, you can use weave poles as jumps bars (they are 3 feet long).
Now, having the grid tighten up might make his head explode a little LOL! So you can open up the angles for the first reps to get the bounce striding so you see front feet and back feet hit only one time between each jump.
I agree that food is probably best for this exercise because it is really complex and we don’t want him to be very excited 🙂 But keep training with the toy for other stuff, and use it to reward stays like you mentioned: having very clear stay releases really helped him here, he as much better when you had the clear releases 🙂
Nice work!
TracyHi! Eventually we will want her to look up at your face, but it sounds like you started by rewarding her for looking towards you and that is a perfect start! You can reward that to get started, especially in more difficult environments 🙂
Tracy
Hi there! Hope you are done with the busy times 🙂
For Hero:
Ewww rain in the walk through, made it very realistic LOL! You had a really good walk through – your plan was really good and clear (I like the BC 4-5 better than the FC), verbals were in place and your connections were generally clear – I think you will need hold connections longer by connecting back to him like you did but then don’t look forward – keep looking back at him like you would do during the actual run.
Only 2 little details I can see in the walk through: You can get clear of the 8 wing on the way to 9 more, get past it before he takes off so you don’t end up on his line for the tunnel. And as you practice the wrap at 11, remember to turn your feet as he lands from the 10 jump and as you give the verbal.
On the run: Wow, Full height is so big for him! He looked great though! Really strong run!!
You got a little far past your planned line at 4, maybe one step further past but your timing and connection were really strong so he had a good line there! Your line from 8-9 was really nice and for the wrap at 11, you turned your feet beautifully! Really nice!>>I think I ran a bit too fast with my invisible dog although when I had the real dog in play I still didn’t think I had any time to spare.>>
Yes, you were a little faster in the walk through but I think that is fine – if you felt that you barely had time in the real run, try to go even FASTER in the walk through so you rehearse getting it right even when you are rushing a bit to hang on 🙂 Faster than the dog is ultimately going to work out better than being slower than the dog’s pace.
For Ruse:
Overall nice course run – she did seem a little insecure on the footing and the full height stuff is HARD, it really seems tall for her – we should work her more at full height.How much time separated first from 5th? There were a couple of spots where we can chop off time.
That bypass at the end was icky course design, ewwww! Is that common in NZ? You can get it faster if you keep moving you: stood still and she thought it was the threadle wrap for a moment. I handle this by completely disconnected, running like a mad woman, and yelling the dog’s name so he chases me and takes nothing – then I tell him to jump that next jump LOL! It is not pretty but it is fast LOL!
A couple of other spots:
3-4 can be tighter if you are closer to the wing of 3 rather than later at 4 – being lateral causes her to jump wider. Being closer to the wrap wing allows you to push her right back out to 4 without extra yardage.
The FC at :17 was a little late, you can shave some time there too if you can get there soon for it or do a BC instead.>> I literally couldn’t run as fast enough down the back straight.
She also had trouble with the jumping – she was changing her leads trying to figure out the height plus the striding. Definitely something to practice at full height!
>>The other thing that was really bothersome all weekend is Ruse breaking her start. I really need to get stuck into that startline program as it put me on the back foot and most of my mistakes were very early in the courses because she didn’t give me the time to get to where I needed to be.>>>
Yes, I thought she might have broken the start but it was hard to tell. Did the broken start contribute to the wide turn at 3? Yes, definitely play the start line games 🙂 now is a perfect time to get her ready for big events 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>I don’t think I understood putting more significance on without dog rehearsal because I felt like the only learning tool I had was to do it.>>
if you have a good set of eyes on you – Carrie, me, or the video camera: you don’t need the dog for feedback because we can tell you what will go right or wrong in the handling, based on the walk through. Like when you closed your shoulder forward on the jump after the tunnel rather than open it up for serp him in during the walk through? That is a moment where we can predict the dog’s behavior, and change your behavior in the walk through so he is successful.
>>
It’s a bit harder when you’ve driven 8 hours and it’s the only run for the day but still.>>That is why NFC/FEO is so nice – at least you can do your own thing if you get a wonky course.
>>What’s funny is that for both dogs in practice, I tend to do much larger lead outs than I’d ever ask for in a trial.>>
Well that is good to add in to your rehearsals – length of lead out can really change the handling (size matters! LOL!), so you will want to rehearse the lead out you will actually use, while you separately train the one you *want* to use.
>>I do feel like I rush the start in practice and in trials which can lead to issues so I need to work on that as well. I just love a tunnel start because no lead out required.>>
Yes, starts are hard! That is another good one to rehearse. In my walk throughs, I am also deciding where to be when I release the dog and how to release, so I am consistent and have a plan rather than run and potentially throw things off.
T
Hi!
>>Ohh this rehearsal lessons made me tear up. I know I sound like a broken record but it’s just so nice working with you and having your knowledge/insight!>>
Aw thanks! The rehearsal lessons can be a pain in the butt, but they really take everything up a level in terms of being able to run the dogs.
>>I really undervalue the importance of walkthroughs with practice because I learn best by doing. I always have. I need a lot of reps to learn. In PA school learning anatomy, I’d have to write things over and over again. I’d have to pull up every cadaver to see the variations of structures because I can’t picture it.>>
This is good to know in many ways: you are already well-practiced and successful with rehearsals, and you have a system that does not rely on visual memory. Perfect! So you need to work out the system in the walk throughs too, because it will make all the difference. I think having the written map or video taping your walk throughs can help!
..I’m very lucky that Callie is my first agility dog because she can handle high reps. However, Fever is not a fan. I also was working with someone when he was young who was very unflexible to our needs.>>
I think that Callie’s way of not handling high reps is that she has variable speeds. And that is a bummer about not having someone be flexible!
>>I do need to remember to use my words. My initial agility instructor was anti verbals so I lost them for awhile. Having helped me add them back- now I have too many. But it’s made Callie much more confident in running also!>>
Yeah, we were all anti-verbals for a while – the Derrett system (where I started out) and the OMD system were all VERY anti-verbal for a while. But times have changed, thankfully 🙂
>>I do shadow handle at trials. That my marker for whether I know I can stop walking. If I can’t shadow handle it, It hasn’t been learned.
Add another marker: are you winded? Do you feel like you have just run it? That is your marker to know if you have worked the dog’s pace or not. That was one thing missing on your walkthroughs here: dog’s pace. I can do an 8 minute walk through and know the course… but it doesn’t mean I can run the dog if I have not worked the dog’s pace. When I did the demos for the videos here, it was 90 degree out and I had to run, and I was indeed winded LOL!!! But the courses ran well with the baby dogs, because of the extra rehearsal.
>> I have been struggling with the AKC courses that have multiple pinwheels in the middle- which seems to be really popular with some judges 🤷♀️.
Yep, it is a thing for sure! You can work having landmarks, that might help!
>>
This is a very interesting suggestion and thank you! I’ve never explored this personally in learning. I know that I have strong emotions tied to some scents so it’s definitely worth exploring. I feel like I’d need to read more to understand how to fully implement this.>>We know that smell is one of the strongest memory triggers (if not THE strongest) so simple pairing works: smell the smell during the walk through. And to re-ignite the memory, smell it again when you are getting ready to run.
>>How do you handle rehearsing speed for dogs that have a variable motor. This more so happens with Callie but Fever too. Do you plan for the run to be fast?
I plan for fastest possible dog, plus also plan for major connection so I can change things if I see the dog is in a different spot. Lots of verbals also helps jazz up the dogs.
T
Hi there!
Nice work with both dogs here!!Emmie’s runs: She looks fabulous!
One thing to consider is turning her to her right over jump 1 rather than to her left – it is a better exit line to the right, less collection on the landing spot, and probably same or shorter yardage: so very well could be faster 🙂The 2-3-4-5 section looked lovely!! You can gauge your line a bit and not always get too far ahead: you ended up a bit too far past the line at ;10 and :30 for the BC 6-7, so she was wide there based on your position. The ideal position/line of motion is right on her line, close to the 6 and 7 jumps, so you can stick closer to 5 and then decel a little into 6-7 to get the perfect turn.
That 7 jump is a decision making jump: You did the BC to the outside slice there – it was really good at :13 and even better at :31!! If you play with this again, a good comparison would be FC there instead of the blind (to see if there is a time difference or advantage to one move over the other) and also the inside wrap to her left: that is a better exit line and shorter yardage, so definitely worth it to see if it is faster!
That 9-10-11 section is tricky 🙂 What was happening was that you were showing too much lateral motion plus indicating ahead at the jump rather than connected back to her at :16 and :55 and 1:05 to get the backside of 11 (so she took the front). I think you had a better line at :36 but you had to step back to the entry wing of 10, and ended up getting caught on the serp line of that jump which cued her to land in extension (ideally you would be moving past the exit wing on the takeoff side, as she is taking off) and then disconnected as you cued the tunnel (looking forward) so she didn’t know which side to be on at :36 also at :47 (more eye contact and also less lateral motion across the bar there will really help).
You can really see it at :46 when she lands: the motion and cue were parallel the bar rather than forward to the tunnel, so she lands wide and in that moment after landing she sees your line of motion to the tunnel. The connection is not super strong so she is confused and goes for the toy when she ends up on the other side of you. Compare it to 1:09, where you had a better line and a MUCH better connection and she got it 🙂So, ideas to make it easier:
To handle from the landing side, you can run a more parallel line into it so when she lands from 9, you are moving forward to the tunnel and setting up a parallel path entry to the backside so you can both cue the backside and also pass the exit wing with connection to the tunnel without showing any slice/extension. You would set that up from the exit of 7 by sending more to 8 and 9 so you are moving more towards the 11 jump and 12 tunnel the whole time, so there is little or not lateral movement on your line.
The other option there, since you were able to get pretty far ahead, is to do a forced front or forced blind on the takeoff side (you had time to get there) and a throw back exit for a tight turn on the exit to the tunnel. I think that might be easier for you because it keeps you in motion the whole time!
This is another spot where you can also play with wrapping 10 on the entry wing but I think the slice will be faster overall.The rest looked REALLY strong, particularly the send-and-go elements that allowed you to both get great turns AND get the BC in to show the line to the weaves! NICE! She responds to the send and go moments sooooo nicely!
Kippy also looked terrific!
You can also consider going to the right on jump 1 with him, he was wide on the left turn based on your position so the right turn might be dramatically faster. He tends to really explode out of tunnels, so remember to call him before he enters the tunnel so he is tighter on the exit to 3 (especially on the first run – he was great on the 2nd run but I think it was because he already saw where he was going 🙂
Send and go at 5 looked good! He read it really well! Same as with Emmie, you line was a little wide on the 6-7 BC at :09 and :26, so you can run closer to 5 and then decel into 6-7 and stick nearer to the jumps to set up a better turn. (You can also play with t he left wrap at 7 to see which is faster 🙂 )
You had a little blooper at :13 on 7, I think you might’ve forgotten the line for a heartbeat, no worries.He read 9-10-11 really well the first time! I think it went better than with Emmie because your line getting to 10 and to 11 was better – the big acceleration across the bar did get him thinking it was a slice turn at 10, so use more of a parallel path to get down that line rather than lateral motion should help. Or, run to the takeoff side for a forced front or forced blind 🙂
Also a nice ending line! You had to do some serious hustle to get the BC before the weaves -I think you went too close to 14 at :36 then you had a footrace to get back – BC was a little late but you got it and he nailed the rest.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
