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Good morning!
>Tried to do some rear cross with the prop. It didn’t really go that well. He didn’t want to go straight to the prop at first for some reason and then once he started going straighter he didn’t want to go ahead.>
I think he might have been a little too “chill” doing this with cookies 🙂 When you got him a little more pumped up, you were able to get a good RC at at 1:00 and at the end! Try this with a toy – tugging, getting him pumped up, then throwing the toy as the reward for the RC. That can get him driving to the prop which makes it easier for you to get the RC.
He did well with the rotated sends to the barrel! The toy was in play, so he was more pumped up for the game.
>He didn’t seem that interested in the cookie plate but also did fine without it.>
Agree! I think it was a useful visual aid at first but he seemed to really prefer the toy reward. He still did good wraps for a cookie from you hand, but for this game you can shift the balance of rewards to the toy 🙂
You can use the barrel for the rocking horses too (if you have 2 barrels, or a barrel and a cone are fine too), I think he is ready for more action there 🙂
And what a good boy for helping the other dog! He emits good vibes 🙂
>What are your thoughts on where to go with his foot targeting for now? Tried a mat in the box he worked on before and also a larger flat mat. He seemed happy with both. Should I do more with either of these?>
He did well with these. We want to keep advancing his footwork – especially getting him to know where to put his back feet – without being boring LOL!! Two much repetition might be a snoozefest for him, so here are a couple of things I did with young dogs. Basically, I am looking for a 1-2-3-4 footwork pattern: front-front-back-back, and I mark/reward on #4 (2nd back foot). I start with a relatively big thing with a mat on it for the dogs to go up and over (easier for the dog to do, easier for me to see 🙂 )
Then I turn it over and have a relatively big thing for the dogs to go through with the same 1-2-3-4 pattern.
Then I use smaller things to ask them to compress their stride into a smaller space: first with an up-and-over, then getting their feet into a small box 🙂
I am always trying to mark/reward foot 4 and have the cookies on an angle – with lots of tug breaks or even using the tug as a reward.
I dug up some visuals, pardon the pajamas hahahaha
First session up-and-over:
Second session up-and-over, going to a smaller object:
Third session – up-and-over on the smaller object, then I inverted it:
Small dog doing the 3rd session:
The edits here were the tugging breaks.
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Good morning!
Awww the sniffari was perfect – I am sure it will take some time for his body’s physiology to bounce back to normal, so don’t worry if he seems to need extra rest or extra walks. The hour walk was probably amazing! And I am glad they got the hairspray out LOL!!!
He definitely seems happy to be back to tugging and doing puppy games!
Doing the 360s while you walk forward was great!
He did find it easy peasy to follow the food hand and the spins looked easy and smooth.
>the toy was a little too much excitement. He really has trouble following a toy. He just wants to grab and run.>
The toy in the hand when you did the spin cue was a little harder – partially because he was faster (it was more exciting) so you were late 🙂 When you were earlier and clearer, he did well with the toy in your hand. So you can help him by moving the toy hand more slowly and sooner so he can lock onto it a something to follow and not just think the toy is in play.
Also, I think we have not done a lot of toy-in-hand and asking him to follow the hand, so he is not as good at it as compared to following a cookie hand which he has probably been doing since even before you got him LOL!
I also think you can clarify when the toy is available for grabbing (and by extension, when it is not :)) by consistently using a toy marker for when he can grab it from your hand. I use ‘bite’ for that, which helps the pups understand when to grab it but also when NOT to grab it 🙂
At the end, he was bringing the toy kind of close, but moved away when you reached for it. He did let you grab it to play tug at the end and then I really liked what you did: you gave it back to him, instead of taking it away. Sometimes when the pups bring it close but don’t let us grab it, they are concerned we are going to take it away. So getting him to bring it, play tug, then letting him have it back will go a long way to building the retrieve up!
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
The tunnel session went really well!! Yay!!
To add more independence: You can hold him and ay the tunnel verbal a few times then let him go – that strengthens the verbal so you don’t need to use as many physical cues.
And I think he is ready for you to add the threadle verbal to when he is on the inside (between you and the tunnel) and has to turn away to it.
>I discovered I have to keep it calm as you will see in the video, otherwise he goes over the top. Circling, trying to nip me, etc. >
Yes, this was very calm 🙂 and he was great! Do you have video of when he goes over the top? Please post! Behavior is communication, so we can look at it and figure out why it happened, and then fix it from there. Arousal is unavoidable in agility, so we can help him out now rather than wait til he is older.
The lap turn is going well! And so is the tandem. These were actually more like threadle wraps – with a tandem, you would also turn with him and head back the new direction. With the threadle wrap, he turns away to do a full 360 while you keep moving forward in the same direction. Either way, you both did great!
And on the one rep on the lap turn and the one rep on the tandem where you were too soon made it harder for him to be correct, but you handled it well by simply resetting with cookie and trying again. Perfect!
>Going to keep working on them since these turns will be used on the course.>
Yes – the tandems and threadle wraps are very popular course elements right now! The lap turn is not seen as often anymore, but it was a great way to start teaching the pups to turn away.
Nice work here!!
Tracy
Good morning!
> I have some baggage from early training days where I tried too much too soon and thought better treats should overcome the challenge. This was not a successful strategy, and even thinking about it, I have feelings of frustration. I also felt like I was trapped always using the best treats – which then lost their value. I misunderstood some instruction, and underestimated the challenges of training.>
This is totally relatable and a great description of the challenges of training. There is so much adjusting and individualizing training approaches that it can be challenging, frustrating, and super fun – like a really hard puzzle. Reinforcement is the hardest part because it is incredibly complex and goes way beyond what we think of as a reward.
>Today, I am a more savvy handler, and Skizzle is an easier dog to work with – he works for his kibble every day! And toys!>
Yes! You have a really strong skillset, he is a fantastic puppy, and also the two of you have a lovely relationship which also helps in training 🙂
>We have continued to work on the parallel path – I’m trying to help him understand the relevance of the jump equipment, instead of playing fetch in the presence of it. >
I love the way you framed this approach! And I think you made big strides here – the session was kind of a combination of the 2 bowl pattern he already knows and toy play as an important element. It went really well and he was offering the jump a lot! I didn’t count the success rate because he approached it as a puzzle worth solving – he was persistent and got lots of rewards. And he was handling the feedback of ‘that is not correct’ really well too – that is a really important element. Part of the resilience we want in our dogs is the ability to *not* be correct but still be persistent. Plus, the excitement level was high but so was the success level 🙂
>Should I be more patient with this, and continue working on it until he’s correct more (>80%) before moving my parallel path further from the side of the jump?>
The 80% rule is a good one but I like to be a little more like 90% with adolescent dogs due to their ever-shifting adolescent sensitivities LOL! But some errors are a good thing – the errors create that bit of ‘friction’ that we need for learning and motivation. And 80% can sometimes be too low for the individual dog, depending on the intrinsic motivation for the type of ‘work’ and how long the session is. So I prefer to just use a 2-failure rule: if I get 2 failures (in a row or in the session), I will make it a little easier to try not to get a 3rd failure. That will put the session between 80-95% without having to do math haha
We can achieve that 80-90% success level while adding in harder challenges by manipulating variables. Basically, pick your challenge for the next couple of reps in a session: more lateral distance? Moving the bowls further away? Adding more motion? When one variable gets harder (like you want to add lateral distance) – make another variable easier (by moving the bowls in closer). That way you can set up success while building in the other stuff you want him to see.
>This exercise – and his playing fetch, instead – make me think “uh oh.” It seems like having value for going through the jump standard is very important. I appreciate the process, though…shaping the dog to run through the uprights.>
The shaping process for finding a jump is definitely key and getting it sorted out now will bring great commitment to his career in any sport with jumps 🙂 I really appreciate his feedback about the context (outside with the toy) possibly being a cue for playing fetch! And retrieving/fetch is so fun and motivating that all it might have taken is one or two throws for him to develop that love LOL!! But it is fun to receive feedback from the 4-legged team member and try to incorporate what he loves (the toy and running around for it) in that context and build the value for a different behavior.
This is something to keep revisiting every couple of days, to keep building value and adding challenge, while allowing latent learning to work its magic in between sessions 🙂
Great job here!
Tracy
Hi!
I am glad you are finally having decent weather! It is fun to have the first tunnel session on video!!!He did really well here – you made a choice to use the toy in the last part of the session, and I think that was an excellent decision. He was not as interested in the tunnel for treats or the MM, but he definitely got more excited for the toy! So for the next session, you can have that toy tied to another toy to make it a meter or two long – that way you can have him on one side of the tunnel and toss the toy to the other side while you hold one end of it. Then as he enters the tunnel, you can start dragging the toy for him to chase 🙂 I think he will really enjoy that and the value will transfer easily to the tunnel.
And yes, keep building up the MM value separately. Better treats can help and also more experience with it will help too (then I am sure he will become totally obsessed with it LOL!)
>I also still have the lesson plans from your MM class that I did ages ago!>
That is so funny! I just pulled that info back up because people have been asking and so I am going to post it on the BrainCamp site 🙂 If you remind me when I do get it posted, I will add you to it there – it is basically the same info, so no need to buy it or anything.
Great job here!
Tracy
Good morning!
>I think one set of my new tits shows up soon. >
Wow, I didn’t know you can get tits through the mail hahahahahahaha darned autocorrect is always good for a laugh 😄 😆
The remote reinforcement session went GREAT! I think she already had a foundation for this because you often leave the cookie bag on the table when kitchen training:) but in that scenario, you had treats in your hands or bait bag. That made for a pretty seamless transition here and she was lovely with her engagement and responses. And she ignored Sprite who was right there at the gate! Yay!
In the house, you can expand this 2 ways:
Use a toy on table
Leave treats or toys on a table or raised surface, and go into another room! That can be like entering the ring 🙂>So, I’m struggling with space for the harder games. I’m not sure she’ll lay attention in three yard. There is a small section by the gate without hackberries. Maybe, I’ll try the RC there with a long line. I’m a little concerned about the wrap exercises dragging a long line. What do you think?>
This remote reinforcement can go into the back yard, because you can do it on leash! It is an engagement game so it also (indirectly) address the ignore the distractions of the great outdoors.
Yes, the RC on a long line game is good for outside, especially on the prop which she is loving!
You can bring proprioception stuff outside for the shpile game!
And check out this week’s SSC slice game – we can get the hackberries involved 🙂
You can also do the parallel path game outside – long line can drag, and do it in 20 seconds blasts: one or two cookies then wild toy then she can watch Sprite do something.
The wrapping games are coming along nicely, so we don’t need them outdoors yet – start with the other games and when the engagement is a little more tipped in your favor, we can bring wrapping back. I figure that will only be a few more days.
Great job here!
TracyGood morning!
I’m so glad it was a fun trial weekend!! And it sounds like what you did with her near the ring was perfect.And I agree that the backing up session went really well! She’s getting it! Her backing up was better (and she didn’t offer sitting) when you kept your hands just below knee-level.
For next steps:
– keep scooting your chair a little further away like you did here, to add more distance
– you’ll see the Part 2 game (week 6 I think) where we add a little bit of an angle to the board and then let the board wobble a little bit 🙂No rush to get through the levels – it is a good one to revisit once a week or so. She’s doing great!!
Nice work 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!! I am excited to see Bazinga work on these!!
She definitely likes the tunnel a lot LOL!! But she was definitely figuring out that this was a game of not just ging to the tunnel – it could be the jump too! And I agree, I could see her lightbulb going on 🙂
She was very excited to try this game, and might need a bit more of just going to the jump without you moving. I am not sure she knows that going to the jump is a possibility if you are only saying ‘jump!’ It was easier when you moved it closer but a short session or two of value building for the jump alone (from between your feet with only a verbal) can balance it out her love for the tunnel 🙂
For the next session, 2 suggestions:
– have her between your feet rather than at your side because being at your side might indicate the obstacle on that side (which was the tunnel here).
– hold her (a harness might be easiest) then say the verbal 3 or 4 times before letting go. If she moves as soon as she hears a sound, she might guess based on what just happened or higher value, or if she picks up that you do things in a certain order (we humans are very predicable haha!!!)
Great job here! You are off to a great start!
Tracy
Hi!
These runs were beautifully connected which is why he was so successful, even with the line of motion being relatively similar for both obstacles! Yay! There was still plenty of challenge – note how he was wide around the wing on the early runs because he had to still process the discrimination. Even with clear connection, the jump and tunnel were still *right there* and bombarding his brain with info. But he did GREAT and by the end, he was nice and tight around the wing.>I think our biggest “problem” is that I am not allowing the verbals to come to the fore. I tend to allow the handling to do all the work. Not exactly what we are hoping for…. I did remember to at least say them (after the first try or two).>
Part of it is definitely getting the handling crisp and clear, so it is easy to handle the sequences. Feel free to handle them silently!
But also yes – we want the verbals to be able to override motion so also do reps with the verbals. And you can actually dial back the connection to let the verbals come to the fore. For example, on this setup – the handler rotation at the wing (FC or spin) deliberately does really indicate the next obstacle – the upper body does in the handling, and/or the verbal. So to emphasize the verbal more, ‘soften’ the connection by looking at him peripherally so you can kinda sorta see him while you are saying the obstacle cues. Start the verbals as he is arriving at the wrap wing. and at the beginning of this ‘soft’ connection try not to move too quickly because fast handler motion might make it too hard. Just walk with minimal conneciton and see what happens! Eventually we will go to ZERO connection 🙂 and lots of verbals, but let’s start with softening the connection first.
Nice work here!
Tracy
Hello and welcome here too!!!
He is doing really well sorting out the verbals only game, but I think he is guessing based on predicting what you will say (the order you say things) and not necessarily responding to verbals alone. He was thinking it was tunnel then jump then tunnel then jump – and if one was incorrect, he went to the other. So that is very clever but also not as much verbal discrimination – it was more about “do the other thing” in alternating reps LOL
So one thing to change: Hold him by the collar (have him wear a collar for this) so you can say the verbal 3 or 4 times then let him go, to let him process it before he moves – otherwise you will see him either default to the side preference (left or right lead) or obstacle preference, or guess based on figuring out your rhythm of saying things. He is definitely smart enough to figure out your rhythm as has probably made a decision about which one it was before you said anything, based on what happened on the previous rep 🙂
>We have previously done a lot of “focus” work, where he is cued to focus on the first obstacle after set up – so this may be somewhat counter-intuitive for him.>
Holding him by the collar will also take out the focus element and add more of a cue to listen rather than look.
So along with holding him – mix things up more! Don’t alternate tunnel then jump then tunnel – do a couple of the same in a row, then one of each, then 3 jump cues in a row, etc. Be as unpredictable as possible LOL!!
>I am thinking we should continue doing this exercise a bit longer, until we have an almost 100% success rate, before we move on to the handling exercises. Do you agree?>
I think you will both be bored if we do a lot of the verbals and not a lot of handling LOL!! Mix in the handling games – the discriminations are also supported by connection, but also there are levels of the games where we do NOT support with connection and the handling looks very much the same… so the dogs learn to listen for the verbal. And that can be just as challenging as this game but more fun because you both get to move 🙂 You can play these games (verbals only and handling) side-by-side because they are designed to work with each other.
Nice work here 🙂
Tracy
Hello and welcome! Great to see you here! He is looking really good 🙂
>We are behind with his contact training b/c I have been trying to teach him running contacts with a mat, but I’m very skeptical that the method will work (I’ve never trained RCs before). I’m trying to decide whether to continue with the RCs, or whether to switch to a stop.>
Ah yes, running contacts… they are not easy to teach! There are several different mat methods out there, and some of the more effective ones actually have a raised up mat to help the dogs. It is pretty intensive!
Looking at the video:
VERY nice timing on the FC at 3! You can be a little further over near 4, which might help give him positional info sooner so the turn is even tighter 🙂
>this video shows our first attempt, and our last attempt. In the first attempt he went to the backside of jump#5 >
That was actually a course build error, not a handler or dog error!
On the first run, The line to the front of the 5 jump would be a threadle for him based on how it was built. The landing spot of 4 here takes him on a parallel path to the backside of 5. He is not flicking away to it or lead changing to it, he is staying on his line. And that is what this generation of dogs is trained to do: stay on the line even if it takes them to the backside (because that is what we are seeing a lot of :))It is important to keep going and reward young dogs, because he was correct here – nothing told him *not* to go to the backside (the right verbal happened a stride after landing from 4, so I am sure he felt it applied to 5) And your motion did indeed cue him to stay on his line.
> he continued to do this even when I sent him from Jump#4,>
Because he was saying “mom, it is the line to the backside” LOL!
On the 2nd rep, you didn’t really move as he was taking 4 which shaped the line off the parallel path to the backside (but he was a bit wide, which might mean he was questioning the line).
So if you get an error where he goes to the backside – keep going, reward, then watch the video before doing the next rep. In those moments, the video will almost always show that the dog was remaining on the straight line/parallel path to the backside and the motion supported it – and we don’t want to lose that skill!
> After watching the video, I think that maybe he thinks that “right” means circle the wing, as I use R for him to spin to the R, and I had previously taught him to circle a cone with the “right” cue – maybe I should change my verbal cue for a soft turn to the R, or maaybe just say “jump”?>
I don’t think it was a verbal understanding question here (it was a line question on that first rep, where motion supported the backside line and the verbal was late so didn’t change the line). If right should mean a ‘soft’ turn, you can define exactly how much of a right turn you want when you say it (I want an approx 90 degree turn when I saw right). A jump verbal or a name call can get a kind of soft/middle ground of a turn here and also ‘jump’ always indicates the front of the jump – so I use it when I for sure do not want the backside. The timing of starting that would be no later than liftoff of 4.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi!
>He had done pretty well in those runs which gave me a false sense that he might be ready. >
What you might be seeing as the difference is that in the NFC runs, the toy was visible in your hand (or he know it was in the pocket). In real runs, the toy is long gone before entering the ring. The 4-step NFC progression will help with fading the toy.
> I have 2x2s and a set of 6 weaves in SC…..is it worth working on those or should I wait to work on 12?>
I think it is worth working with 6 poles – you can use a tunnel off to the side as a distraction, for example, or even a food bowl 🙂
>.so maybe we can use that to help improve his behaviors when excited in a non-agility context. What do you think?>
Does he leap up at you when running on the beach? If yes, then you will want to have a plan first and foremost to not have him rehearse that behavior (such as throwing big treat fistfuls down if he comes running towards you with leapy thoughts). It not, great – and yes we can totally build up to using that! First I would be interested in seeing how he does with wild tugging then weaves, with a tunnel or some other type of distraction very close by.
>How do you teach a freeze? Any chance you have a video? Was it in a Max Pup class and I didn’t do my homework?>
If you think back to MaxPup 1, it is built off the Stays 2 Ways game – mainly the higher arousal one where we get the pups tugging then we take the toy and freeze… so they offer a sit or stand or down. Then we release and play (and gradually extend the duration). I build up to adding the word “stay” to cue the offer of a frozen position. How does he do with offering sits or stands without a cue?
Tracy
Hi!
She is doing well with these sequences and also giving good feedback about what she needs to see in terms of cues and timing 🙂When doing handling sequences and something goes wrong – either keep going (rather than stop), or praise and reward if there is no way to keep going. The dogs are correct 99% of the time (errors are handler errors such as timing or connection) so it is better to continue and reward, rather than stop or withhold reward. And you can watch the video to see why it went wrong.
Seq 1:
1-2-3-4-5 looked good!!
She missed 6 partially because of the tree obstructioed and partially because you were not connected (:11)That is a good spot to keep going if that happens, getting back on the line and continuing on.
You gave much clearer info when you ran it again with a big send and she got it really well. Super!
Seq 2:
For the blind in the opening, you can lead out more and be closer to the jumps but heading to 3. That will show her the line and also give you more time to finish the BC. On rep 1 – you were converging towards the landing spot of 2 and late with the blind. When she landed, you had not reconnected on the new side – and when you tried to reconnect, it was too late she was already past you on your right side. You can reward her there too, with big praise and the toy or cookies.You had much better connection on rep 2 but you don’t need to converge to the landing of 2 for the BC, you can head directly to 3 even more.
Seq 3: This one has both the RC and BC options 4-5. For the RC option, your first on at :28 was a bit late (she was already ttaking off and turning to her right). Even though she turned right instead of left… keep going! She was correct with the info she saw, and it was still a clear round! You had clearer and earlier RC cues at :56, so that line worked better there. Yay!
The BC is also a good option here. You can send to 3 more, so you are further ahead for the BC and start it as she is committing to 3. You were a little late at :38 but she got it after landing from 4. Good girl!
Seq 4:
On this one, you can send to 3 from further away too so you can get the BC 4-5 sooner as well – the BC also starts as she is committing to 3 here too (but it is on a different line :)) You were a little late but she did pick it up after the landed.Seq 5: she didn’t release off the start line here, she might have needed to be finished for the day? These sequences has a lot of running for her little legs.
> struggling to get the tight turn and avoid the off-course.>
This one was all about the timing and delivery of the cues for the tunnel exit. You can give her the tunnel exit cues when she is still at least a meter (possibly 2 meters!) before entering the tunnel. The verbal and physical cues here happened after she was already in the tunnel at 1:40 and 1:56 (and also on the last rep) so she correctly took the off course both times. You rewarded the first one but not the second one… reward both because she was correct! You got it by standing relatively still and doing a threadle arm, but she took the off course at the very end too when you were moving. So definitely let her see and hear the turn cues well before she enters the tunnel, and that should tighten up her turn.
Nice work!!!
Tracy
Hi!
I agree, he did great with the get outs here in both directions. No problems or questions a all! His best ones where when you let him see you do the arm cue and say the verbal after he lifted his head from start cookie. When the arm was already up, he did move towards the prop but it was not as snappy as the reps where you cued it really crisply.
Be sure to add in reps where you are moving forward but do *not* cue the get out, so he learns that just because he sees a prop doesn’t mean he should go to the prop (think ahead to the future: just because he sees a tunnel doesn’t mean he should go into the tunnel LOL!!)
You did a couple of those on the way back to the start, like at :59 and he was great about moving with you and not heading to the prop 🙂 So now let him see it in context so he is really reading the cues.
Great job!!
Tracy
Good morning!
Yes! This was hard but I think it was more about him processing things in the environment too, not just the cues: being in the turf arena, agility happening behind him, a dog singing the sad song of its people in a crate right there…. his brain was being bombarded with stimuli! So when you were moving forward and using a fast hand cue, he didn’t really process the hand cue (the forward motion and the other stuff in the environment overrode it) and he could sometimes get the right turn but not the left turn at the beginning part of the session.
This is pretty typical that the more subtle cues get lost in the sensory bombardment with puppy brains 🙂 But he was able to stick with you and not really explore the environment so I think the session was a big win!!!
Adding toy play will actually help him block out the other things in the environment to focus on the more subtle cues from you, and also keep him more engaged
And when the hand cues were a lot slower, he was actually able to process them really well. You can see this at :16, for example, and at 1:39, 1:57, 2:03, 2:16 etc.
And when you used two hands at 3:00 and the reps towards the end where you were not moving forward as much – those were more visible to him and very effective!
I don’t think you will need to use 2 hands for the cue if you don’t want to (it is totally handler-preference so you get to decide) but you will want to slow the cue down and make it big and obvious, especially when there is a lot happening in the environment.
Great job!
Tracy
