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Hi! This is interesting about Keiko in class…
It sounds like a really fun workshop!!!
>>I had a tug, a new toy (flat beaver with squeakers) and good treats for the lotus. Keiko was great on the sequences – 3 to 6 obstacles with a variety of handling (FC, backs, outs, far end of tunnel, false turns, rears on the poles – that sort of thing.) She had fun, was energized and connected with both treats and toys (though the beaver won the popularity contest.). The one time Keiko shut down was when the instructor wanted me to stand in a very specific position for the back send, and to place the reward for Keiko just going to the backside.
Hmmmm – I think what you are seeing there is that she does not find a ‘dead’ toy to be reinforcing. A moving toy? Yes. A cookie? Oh yes! You running? Heck yeah? A toy just laying on the ground? Bleh. And if you were not moving, it became double bleh so she didn’t light up.
It is actually pretty normal LOL! So you can mix up the reinforcement – either use a thrown toy (you or the instructor can toss her flying squirrel, for example) or if you want it placed and not thrown, use something higher value – I bet the Manners Minder would work! My Manners Minder lives in the car so I can use it LOL!
>>>The instructor wanted her to drive really enthusiastically to the reward. I really believe Keiko was bored, and confused as to why she should get excited about just a short trot to a reward. She’s so interesting. She will try something a couple of times. If she gets rewarded for what she’s doing, and the situation doesn’t change, she shuts down. >>>
It totally be that she is wondering why she is being asked to repeat – many dogs slow down or change their behavior because even though they are getting rewarded, they don’t like the repetition on something that doesn’t have a lot of motion.
>>Once, maybe twice is okay, but more must mean something’s wrong. And, since she can’t figure out what it is that needs to be changed, she just checks out. Does this make sense to you?
Yes, absolutely – so more running, fewer reps and if she gets it right – move on to something else 🙂
>>When I try to ramp up the excitement or change the reward at this point, it doesn’t seem to help her get re-engaged. >>
Yes – she might be reading it as pressure and shutting down a bit.
>>Should I just tell the instructor she needs a break when this starts happening? Have her do something else unrelated and easy, and leave? I don’t like seeing her withdraw her interest and enthusiasm. She loves best running and watching for cues regarding course changes. >>
When the instructor wants to do something like the one jump stuff with a placed toy – use a Manners Minder or a food bowl with a piece of cheese in it, if you think that will light her up. And then you can ask if Keiko can do a wing wrap or tunnel before it, or have the reinforcement move more so she doesn’t deflate. Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
Hi! Lots of good work here!
Looking at the sequences:
Fusion’s sequence looked really good! Nice connection on the 1-2 line and also on the push to the backside! You can do the blind on the landing side sooner so you reconnect sooner, so that she doesn’t jump up there. Yes, one more step needed to 5 at :29, you turned away a little too soon for a youngster.
The blind 6-7, went well! Nice connection throughout!
2nd video – on the walk through, it was hard to tell what you final decisions were, so you can walk a few more times and add in the connections. That will help it he even smoother 🙂
I also think you made things a little harder on the ending line – after the backside, you can send her to the other side of the backside before the tunnel to slice it, rather than do a FC then a wrap – letting her stay out on the line will be easier for you both!On the run – this is an important connection moment 1-2, so really give her big eye contact there and at 2:12 🙂 more like at 1:15 and 2:40 that was a good connection!
On the backside at 1:22, you had your outside arm going but I think you can give more eye contact to push to the backside. A wingless is also harder to see, so you had to work a little harder to show it to you her but then she got it! You got it nicely at 2:48!
Connect more out of the last tunnel, with your arm back and eyes on her eyes – really exaggerate it.
Veloz – that was really interesting, he was reading it as a threadle on the backside – my guess is that your position of standing still near the wing was a cue to decel and come into you for the threadle? I think moving into it might help. You can try moving up the line with big connection and see if that helps, rather than being stationary.
Fusion’s last video –
She definitely had trouble with the other dog! That was a great distraction to work through! She had trouble til you started the pattern game, then she was MUCH more focused! For the tricks and stuff, try to do tricks with more movement and running – you were calm so she was distracted.You can do things like spins and fast heeling and I think that will really help her. I know it sounds odd, but getting her MORE pumped up will actually get her more focused 🙂Well done on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Both dogs did really well on this course!!!
Ruse’s run looked really good!
On the Push 2-3 – you can lead out and be in position sooner, or do a blind 2-3 (running into it starting dog on left then blinding to the right. I think you had better position on the lead out on the 2nd run and the turn was even nicer!
The threadle after the tunnel to 4 looke really good and the Middle section looked awesome! On both runs!! YAY!
On little detail to tighten a turn: Turn your feet earlier at #13 (1:21) so she collects more – you had more rotation at 2:35 and she had a better tur. By deceling and rotating your feet to 14 so she kind of runs across your feet, you’ll get great collection.
Where did she go at 1:25? She was really convinced LOL! Oh I see, it was a tunnel in the distance – she was convinced LOL!!! A more compelling verbal and shoulder turn helped it on the 2nd run there 🙂
O the ending at 17 – try to have more of your arm back and make connection, and go to the center of the bar – don’t push as much or ‘swoosh’ your arm forward – I think you were blocking the wing and over-pushing, so she thought you wanted the weaves when your arm went forward.
You changed the ending on the 2nd rep and I liked your first plan better – going the other way did open up the line to the backside so you would need the spin or a threadle or more decel for her – I htink with more connection and showing her more of the backside wing, you can get 17 with the original plan.
Hero: He also looked great!!!
The opening went nicely 1-2-3. More motion towards the bar on the #4 threadle will help, you were trying to move away too soon for a young dog. At :27 and at the end you nailed it, perfect!
Middle section – super nice !!!! That ran really well – and also really nice rotation on the 13 wrap at :51! You can decel more and keep your hands low and quiet to help him collect more, you had a lot of upper body motion so he jumped a little wider even with the great foot rotation.
On the ending line – using the FC on 16, be sure to decel to get it tight (it is hard to get there to decel, though!) but the decel you did on 17 really set the line nicely to 18! If you want, you can totally try to get the original plan of the other side of 17 with him too.
Great job with both dogs! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I think these are going well, you have a TON of good tricks and skills for your routine!
When you were doing the cookie tosses at the beginning and he went behind you – was that cued, or what that him being stimulated? If he was stimulated, that is good to know because you can use the game ot help get him more stimulated in a high distraction environment!
The moving tricks (hand touch, spins, leg weaves, circles) all look GREAT! I agree, the backing up was harder for him – so if you need him to be more thoughtful, you can use that in situations when you would like him to be less stimulated. And it is a great body warm up 🙂
Great job here – you can take this into different locations and his classes so you can play with engagement with different distractions and arousal levels 🙂
TracyGood morning! These look good!
Kaladin’s run:
The opening of the walk looked good, maybe stick a little closer to the tunnel til he is in it so he doesn’t peek at the 3 and 4 jumps. Yes, the FC 5-6 was an interesting choice in the walk through LOL! A lot of rotation and your feet overruled you during the run LOL! To double check spots like.
Also, did you check the decision making moment 6-7? He will land out on the slice line (towards the camera), the distance is a bit shorter on the slice line, and the line 7-8 is better on the inside path (turning right) so it should be faster turning him to his left, even though it doesn’t look as smooth. Also, turning to the right, I suggest a spin to tighten up that line.
On the run – He seemed to do perfectly fine at 12,getting ready for NFC! You ran it closer to the tunnel 1-2, and it worked well. You can wait there for a heartbeat so you don’t get caught decelerating at 3 (it is a tight space for sure on this sequence!)
Good job on the blind 5-6! And he was a bit wide on the 6 turn so yes a spin would work well there!
On the re-do – I think the backside threadle on 3 was too hard so for both of you – hard to get there and hard fo him to see, so I liked you original plan best!Good walk for Min! I think the ideas for Kaladin hold here too – Good blind 5-6! And the 6 jump is a good one to try both ways and time for sure! Actually 3 ways: right turn with the post turn, right turn with the spin, and left turn (a front cross). Most folks at a trial would naturally turn right but I bet the left turn is faster here, especially for a small dog like Min!
The run went well! It was fast and connected – the spin can be sooner so she can be at maximum tightness and speed. You faced forward til she took off then spun, so try to decel into as she has landed from 5 so she sees it before takeoff. The rest looked great!
And you can time the difference between the openings – the higher arousal routine versus the more normal routine to see what is fastest off the line 🙂 It looked great here but a timer will tell all 🙂
Great job here Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I agree, we don’t wan to make it a needle in the eye thing!!! What if you did a run NFC with just contacts, to just get her more relaxed in that environment. That if that goes well, ask for weaves in the next NFC run when she is more relaxed.Also, is it highly unusual that she couldn’t get the weaves at all, even fom one jump or a sit? If so, get her checked by a chiropractor or massage therapist to make sure she is not sore anywhere.
Keep me posted!
TracyHi!
I agree – Lots of options on this sequence!
The walk through went well and the side by sides were pretty close! I think you were a little ahead of the real run (going at a faster pace) on the walk through video, but that is great – being ahead of the pace works well, as long as you stay connected like you did here.On the first run – I think you made good handling choices and also you were really connected! No need to manage 2-3 by calling her, it slowed her down. But then tandem turn 3-4 worked well and the big send 5-6-7 also worked well! The serp you did on landing of 7 worked nicely!
On the 2nd run, I think there were 2 places where you cut off a lot of time: you drove more 1-2, so she was faster there. And you didn’t manage 2-3 so she was faster there too! I bet the 5 second difference was mainly in those 2 spots. The FC on landing of 3 worked, but there is a lot of rotation and I think you were a little in the way – the tandem turn from the first run was very clear and also a blind cross is possible there too.
>>and meant to do something to tighten her turn on jump 6, but I really didn’t do anything differently there, and her turn looked the same. During the walk-thru I did try a blind and a FC for the landing at 7, don’t know why I didn’t give it a go here on the second run…What would you have done?>>
I thought your decision to stay on landing side of 7 was really clever!!! You used her good distance skills and she was great there – I think that is a better choice than any crosses 🙂 2 ideas for tightening up 7:
– use your wrap cue there, rather than the general jump cue which cues a bit of a wider turn
– start calling her sooner, even before she takes off for 7, so she can drive directly back to 8.Great job!
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
>>I am having difficulty picturing when I’d use a one-jump-backside slice like this. The 2 jumps is “normal”. I don’t want to make a lot of extra work for you, but if you have a drawing of a set up that would use this, I would find that helpful.>>
I will draw it and also try to find some course maps with it!
>>She has now had a couple of months of class, and is getting better at staying connected, but she still sometimes just disconnects.
It is in the middle of a run, after certain obstacles or in a particular part of the ring? We can look for patterns and see if we can find the trigger. Also, try you to time your turns, to keep them under 2 minutes or so.
>>The last time this happened, I went back to my seat. She realized I was no longer on the floor, and came back and got in her crate. The next time we had a turn, she worked quite well and stayed connected. hmmm…
Could be that she needed a mental break, either the turn went on too long or the sequence was too hard – and the next sequence was shorter/easier/.
>>One of the issues with this room is that it is so crowded with crates, equipment, etc along the walls that there is no fencing or barrier to separate the people, crates, other equipment and other dogs from the agility sequence. It’s a challenge I’m working on. >>
Sounds like a really hard environment! You can play the pattern game in different parts of the building, but I also really recommend the volume dial game so that you can get her jazzed up even with all the distractions.
>>So, I’m wondering if you have any specific ideas, besides the excellent Transition exercises you’ve given us, about other things I can do in these 2 very different settings that would help her maintain focus and connection. I feel I should be looking for a class that is a bit below her ability level so we can have shorter sequences and activities that she’ll find fun and successful.
Your thoughts? I’ve never had this type of issue before, thank you pandemic….>>Yes, I imagine we will all be playing a bit of ‘catch up’ in the new places thanks to the pandemic. Our young dogs didn’t get the normal exposure, but no one is to blame and it will turn out fine. I think the volume dial game is a biggie: tricks for treats! Very active tricks and barking on cue if you can get her to do it 🙂 Get her really pumped up! Also, really time her sessions: Keep them very very short so she goes fast, gets reward and then you leave her wanted more 🙂 And I love your idea of going to a lower level class so she doesn’t have to think out he course – she can just go fast fast fast and learn to ignore the environment.
Also, will she chase your flying squirrel in the new environments? Bringing in super high value toys can really help.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Sorry for the delay, the forum hid this from me LOL!!!
The courses looked great. Little details to consider on them:
First video:
Nice line 1-2-3!!! When she is a-framing, run more towards 4 and not as much towards the a-frame contact so she can be independent with her stop and also see the next line
Nice turn on the exit of 5! Good verbal!
She head checked you at :26 on the jump before the teeter – stay connected and accelerate, calling the teeter verbal sooner so she doesn’t look at you.That is indeed a hard weave entry! If you are close to the teeter, yo I will need to converge into the line to push her to the weave entry, and I suggest an ‘out’ cue too.
You can also layer the line with the teeter on it – pick her up from the #5 tunnel exit by staying near the exit, and either run the whole line as close to the dog walk as possible (layering that random jump out there) or send her to 6-7-8 and you be on the other side of the dog walk 🙂Yes, you can work it on 4 poles but I think working the handling is actually going to be more helpful – totally a great spot for distance handling to get you ahead to set the weave entry.
You totally overhelped her get the jump after the tunnel at :42 (#13) and all of that motion and convergence put her right into the off course tunnel (didn’t matter which word LOL!)
So send her in the tunnel and use verbals for the 13 jump, while you run to the 14 end of the tunnel – distance skills make this much easier 🙂 You can even later the 4 jump – it will make the tunnel entry so much easier 🙂
You were a little less over-helpy 🙂 At 1:17 on 13 but. I do think yo can handle that whole line from further away.Interesting that she did not see the dog walk at the end – I think you were in a good position but maybe she needed more connection there, especially with the various other jumps nearby. The last rep looked great!
2nd video –
You were too early on the blind 2-3, as she came around the wing from 1 at :03, you were basically already done with the blind, so she was correct to not take 2 (good girl!) Great timing at :12!
When you release from the teeter, be connected all the way up the line at :22 – you were looking forward then back at her then forward again, so she game off the line especially because it looked like 6 was wingless (harder to see) and there was the big delicious tunnel behind her 🙂 Then stay connected after 6 too, so she doesn’t head check there at :26.
SUPER nice line 7-8-9-10-11-12-13!!! The rear on the flat to the weaves worked great! The backside at 15 looked good – to rear cross the 16 backside a :44, turn your feet to the center of the bar and she will get it nicely. That will also allow you to FC 17 sooner to leave for the dog walk line.
2nd run:
Nice BC 2-3, you nailed the timing here too. Be connected back to her at 3, you were looking ahead so she pulled the bar there. Her teeters (and all contacts!) look great 🙂 Much better up that line in terms of connection, but she needed you to turn your shoulders and call her – she kept going off course to the tunnel because you didn’t turn. When you *did* turn at 1:48? Perfect! Great turn to the a-frame.That middle section 7-8-9-10-11-12-13 and the weaves all looked great again. YAY!!
On 16, you had your chest turned to the slice but not the feet… so she didn’t take it.
(Another option there is a backside blind, which is actually easier than a backside rear!!)Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyYes, get creative! Doing the games in the paddock would be really challenging. 🙂
We have til Sept 1 for posting 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Both dogs did well here – these “compare and contrast” skills games are hard!
For Min:
She is doing well with these as you are adding motion. On the backside pushes, keep making the strong connection but also be sure to not drop your dog side shoulder back so much that it looks like a threadle (there is a fine line LOL!)
On the threadle wraps – you can totally help her more with the hand cue to show her the turn – that will be easy to fade as she sees more of that and I would probably be giving the hand cue in a trial run as support for the verbal anyway 😀
The slices have a bit of foot help (stepping to the bar a little) so you can use hands not feet for the wraps to help solidify them.For Kaladin:
Because he is far less experienced, he needs more processing time to be able to sort the cues while moving. That is why when you gave the threadle info when he was a stride past the wing or more, it was too late for him to process and he took the front.Same with the Backside sends – you can give him more push to it from that angle, meaning more speed and more intensity sooner, as soon as his nose finishes exiting the wing wrap 🙂
Looking at the threadles: you can see the timing at :21 and 1:01, for example, where he was already finished wrapping and striding to the front of the jump when you did the threadle, so he took the front. The cue was definitely earlier on the next rep but still late, try starting it as soon as he exits the wing.
One other idea to help the threadle slices:
Toss reward to slice landing spot, to help him predict where to go after the verbal cue. The rewards were coming near you in roughly the same spot as the go landing spot, so the placement of reward here can help clarify for him what the threadle slice means.He had a little trouble on the threadle wrap, partially because he had just done all of those threadle slices 🙂 so like with Min, you can help him differentiate slice (foot use) versus wrap (more hands). This will help solidify the verbals because the verbals happen before the physical cues (so verbals are predictive of physical cue and reward placement) and Lao because it will raise the rate of success 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
The sequence 1 work also looked really good!
On the walk through, you probably don’t need to call her 2-3 as much – maybe just a little name call then go right into the backside cue. Everything else looked good – you can emphasize the timing of the blind on 6 as well.On the run – looking good! Calling a lot almost got the front of 3. On the 2nd rep, you were earlier with the backside cue and a little less calling at :33 so she had a better line.
For the turn on 6: A decel transition is needed into the tight BC on 6 – decel as she lands from 5 so she sees it is coming and also so you can be starting the blind as she is approaching the jump. You were moving pretty fast and the blind started after she took off at :19, so she was wide there.At :37 your outside arm came up on time but a brake arm doesn’t work on a BC because the brake arm requires us to turn towards her – which makes the BC late because you have to turn away from her. So I think that you just need deceleration and it will work great! (Or a front cross, that is a good spot for a FC too :))
Walk and run side-by-sides looked good on both runs! I think the 2nd one was better than the first one, very close to each other!
And I don’t think the UKI just will let you have drinks in the walk through, well, maybe if it is hot? I have used a rolled up paper or my phone to replace the drinks in the walk through.Have fun this weekend! Great job here!
TracyHi! I think the water bottle helped you keep your hands down and think about connection and pace!!
The walkthrough looked really good here – my only suggestion is to clear the wing as you do the blind on the backside at :11 – you were blocking where your invisible dog needed to be and I could see her looking at the off course jump there rather than seeing the line to the tunnel.
Run 1: this went really well! A couple of little details:
On the first blind 3-4, try to keep your arms in tight to you on the BC at :18 and :37 so you can reconnect really fast. You started on time, but your arms were out away from you which takes longer to finish the blind and reconnect, so she was a little wider than she could be there.She ran past 1st backside at :26 – I think that was more of a dog training thing and not the handling there. Maybe doing the BC sooner will help? But you cued the backside and that also means she should jump the jump no matter what you do, so that is a good dog training thing to revisit: the default of taking the jump on the backside. So send her to the backside and drop the toy on the landing side as you run away or do the blind, etc.
You deceled a little at :40 on the 2nd run, so she took it but it made for a zig zag line to the backside of the next jump because the decel put you on a different line.On 2nd backside you were on her line at :27 so she didn’t lknow where to be for a moment (this matched the walk through). You were much better about clearing the line at :45, so her line was better too 🙂
And the Walk and run side-by-side looked great, so close!!!! YAY!!!
Great job!
TracyHi!
>> Nuptse said, “Fool me once. shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you!” The pattern game, either several treats at a time, scatter, or one at a time, was good for one visit to the agility area!>>
Time to add in the volume dial game! The pattern game is designed to get him to offer engagement and the volume dial game is designed to get him into the best state of arousal for the run. Offering engagement from the pattern game might not be enough to get him into a course-running state – that can vary from moment to moment. Dogs can be a puzzle! But the volume dial game will give you a more direct handle on his engagement in the moment.
You can also run with reward in your hand, or place it on a chair behind you so he knows where it is. He is all about knowing where the rewards are 🙂
The Walk Thru looks good! One thing that I notice is that you were putting connection in right away and that is terrific!
Your plan looked good – you can play with a BC 2-3 instead of a FC, it is less rotation and quicker to make the new connection, earlier. Both the FC and BC will work there but the BC might be easier and quicker.On the decision jump in the 6-7-8 section- it is a hard decision! It would be interesting to see how the other slice line would be compared to the one you did. The exit line is better when you bring him to the inside wing and slice him to the outside (closer to the blue jump). It looked like the fewest # of steps was to the inside wing and slice to the outside too? But it was hard to tell what the final count was LOL!
On the run –
The FC 2-3 might have been a bit off the line towards the wrong end of the tunnel? I didn’t see that in the walk through (but the camera was far from it) and he definitely read the FC as possibly moving towards that end of the tunnel. The FC was timely! The BC will work too, and maybe it will keep him seeing your motion to the correct end of the tunnel sooner so he doesn’t consider the wrong end of the tunnel.The line he ran over 7 was gorgeous! I am definitely curious to know if the other slice would be faster, this one was really good!!
He was definitely faster on the 2nd run! He was more ramped up for sure – the volume dial game before the run can help give us more info on what he needs to get that speed in the first run too. He read the FC 2-3 the same was as the first run but the rest was really great. And the slice over 7 was even better! Very nice!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
