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Hi!
I think he did well here on the first video with the food! One idea is to have several treats in your hand so you don’t have to reach for your pocket – he was watching your hand in your pocket on this video and on the next one too 🙂
>> should have moved away I am great at hindsight.
yes – that is what I noticed too. At :16 when you added the toy on the ground, you moved him directly towards it. So distance there and then with the agility obstacles will be very useful! You can remind yourself to start further away by placing a cone or chair 3 or 4 meters from the distraction as your training location (which will also be a good reminder for starting with a big distance at trials too).
On the verbals video – you are helping too much LOL!! You were moving briskly then when you cued the sit or down, you changed your motion and had your hand in your pocket. I think he was cuing off of the change in motion – so he did get the sit or down, but it won’t transfer as nicely to verbals on course when you will not want to change your motion or reach for cookies. So, start off walking so slowly that you are barely moving – and cue the behavior, but don’t change your motion. And with the backing up, don’t lean towards him (that will be very challenging for him!) You can have cookies in your hand for quick delivery but don’t have your hand in your pocket (dogs see all of this and will cue off of it).
When he can respond to the cues while you are in steady motion the whole time, you can add more motion (but not decelerating or stopping :))When you added the wing, take a different approach: rather than add sits and downs near the wing, add a bit of motion from you like jogging in place or flinging your arms around – and then cue the wing with just the verbal cue. And reward for going around the wing or through the tunnel if that is what you cued. That will help to enhance his commitment and response to directionals when you are running on course, or in the times when your arms get high.
Nice work here!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! (Or night, for you? LOL!)
>> I am a bit slow what is a cloud based game
You’re not slow – darned autocorrect. It should be COOKIE based not cloud based LOL!!
>>I was thinking more about the safety of throwing food on the ground at a show close to the ring>>
Should not be a problem if you are a couple of meters away from the ring and he eats the cookies. If you are concerned about other dogs coming to join, you can start further from the ring.
>>The hardest thing I find with veloz is that he seems fine and then it is just a step too far…
Set a timer on your sessions so you have to stop at,say, 90 seconds. We want to avoid shut down at all costs as shutting down brings a negative conditioned response to the games. And also you can count out the treats to 10 or 15, then be done when you have no more treats left. Better to finish the session while you both want to do more!
>>Fusion is very into how do I get most reinforcement fast and as yet hasnt quite the same attraction to agility equipment.
That is great for a dog of her age. We really don’t want the agility equipment to be the most exciting thing. It is just a gateway to earning reinforcement.
>> So she is there are lots of treats what would you like. She is a planner and patient… Am having trouble with her escaping at the moment- you think she is relaxed and asleep- go a few feet away and she climbs over the top of the crate- checks to see whether second compartment locked if it is climbs back into hers and goes over the outside edge and pushes window open and jumps out.>>
So basically.. she is a cat? LOL!! She might need to be on a long line attached to you to stop the window escapes!
>>I can work her for ages with treat bag on the ground but if I leave it to put her away. When she comes out later – straight to where treat bag was just in case I forgot it.>>
Smart dog LOL!!!
T
Good morning!
>> Interesting that you suggested a Forced Front or German in the spot where I used a threadle (#3 backside). Just a couple of weeks ago, I asked my “in person” instructor about when she uses a Forced Front versus a threadle. Short pause. The answer was basically, “I never use a forced front, once the dog understands the threadle cue”. >>
This is a great conversation! My follow up question is: has this person timed all the option, regularly? Some dogs are fastest on the threadle… but some dogs are slowest even though they “understand” because the handler is facing the dog and stationary (which cues a TON of collection). And, one of our summer obsessions is: collection is NOT always faster 🙂 Stay tuned for more of that 🙂
And these options should be timed regularly for 2 reasons: to make sure that it was not a ‘one time deal’ where the dog was faster, we are looking at averages, and also things change as the dogs mature. My oldest dog was best with slice cues and strong collection cues for a while. But in the last year or so, things have shifted and now I can give a more casual cue and he is faster than the stronger cues, and also he has figured out his wraps so nicely that in some situations, they are as faster or faster. The only way I would know that is by timing them regularly 🙂>>And that makes sense to me because the threadle cue requires less rotation from the handler and therefore, the handler can leave sooner.
Well, yes and no – facing the dog on the threadles can be slower (leaving sooner feels faster to the handler but it doesn’t mean the dog is faster on the line). The only way to know is to time it.
>> On the other hand, the FF allows for a rotating exit and a Jaakko exit yielding less or more tightness.
Yep! And the back turned to the dog in the FF position can add more speed on the line – plus I can run to position and release really quickly while the dog is “hot” where the threadle takes longer for the handler to get into position, which makes the dog a bit cool off the line in some cases.
And as with the threadle – if the dog understands, the handler can leave wicked early for the next line, which is also fast – and depending on the line, this faces our feet to the next running line sooner than the threadle.
>> For me, personally, I only use the German when I’m running with the dog, never on a lead out.
I use is on lead outs so I can lead out less and move sooner – the sooner that I can get my *ss in gear, the quicker I get up to my version of full speed 🙂 Standing still on lead outs takes me longer to get moving but the running lead outs get me moving right away so so I can be at “top speed” (which is still a bit underwhelming haha) before I even release the dog. I won many a class with my Export doing that: set him up as far back from the timers on jump 1 as possible and do a running lead out so he started the clock in full on extension. He was not faster than a lot of the dogs he beat – we just had some good strategies going, especially when he got to be 9, 10, 11 years old 🙂
So I am not advocating for any particular move – I am advocating for getting them all on video and timing them. There is a forced blind option too (people hate those but I love them! SOOOO FAST!). I am advocating for finding the fastest tools for the dog and getting the handler comfy with them so you can win 🙂 It might turn out that the threadle is the fastest! Or not 🙂
>> I try very hard to minimize the handler path: if my running speed is going to be the difference, then I’m not going to win. I look for places where dog training (verbals and independence) can set me up for success. Make sense?>>
TRUTH and totally agree. My foot speed is not the strength of the team LOL! It is the dog training then the application of it in the ring, as well as the strategy – I am not faster than most of the handlers I compete against (especially in that 20 inch class) but my dogs can be better prepared and I might be able to strategize better 🙂
>>As far as exiting the teeter, when I did my final review of the video, I realized that I was blocking Enzo’s view of the next jump. I almost mentioned it but then I thought: Tracy will see it without my pointing it out
. Maybe next time I can see it during the walk-through instead of during the video review!>> Ha! Yes, the video make it clear. Which brings up a good note to remember – the dog always needs to see th backside jump and there are positional cues associated with the backsides:
* being where the wing meets the bar (showing the full wing) is the positional cue for the circle wrap
* being center of the bar or further across to the exit wing is the positional cue for the slice.>>As far as the “lure” on the teeter, how about a bit more advice? My previous, strong 2o2o dog (Terry the Malinois) did not have a nose-touch associated with it. He was expected to learn it based on different surfaces under his feet. Since Enzo is only a month into 2o2o, I can still play with it. If I put out a target, then I feel like I need to enforce the nose touch. Yes? No?
To nose touch or not to nose touch, that is the question… and it is up to you. I personally start all of my 2o2o dogs with a nose touch because it gives a bunch of extra layers to criteria (which actually helps the dog) and also produces a lot of speed and weight shift. And it holds up really well! Admittedly, I no longer have the dog really smack the target with his nose, a light touch is fine – and when the teeter skills are comfy, I fade the actual touching but the dog maintains the mechanics and muscle memory of the weight shift, speed and forward focus into position.
So I like the nose touches but I also don’t feel the need to obsessively maintain them forever as long as the dog learns the mechanics.
>> I can say that with a target in place (never baited), he will ALWAYS go directly to the 2o2o position. I have been withholding the reward until he nose touches the target because that seems like the whole point of a target.>>
Yay for going directly to position! I think withholding the reward is causing him to look up at you – and everything between the ‘click’ and he delivery gets built into the behavior. So quicker rewards for the first “landing” in position will help especially as you build independence – it can be the occasional baited target (I really don’t use those often at all but they help SO much when we do use them) or a MM out ahead or a toy on the ground – all to release him too without looking up at you or you needing to be next to him.
>>But I’m guessing it is holding the end up in the air, lure the dog to the end, bounce it up and down in the air and drop it to the ground. Dog does 2o2o and you reward. Correct? >>
Yes and no – I don’t bounce it up and down because I think it messes up the weight shift. I am going to grab the training videos t show you – there are 3 levels to it. I can do it by myself with dogs up to 40lbs (you will see the big youngster in the videos and I think he is somewhere around 37 lbs right now). I will link the videos in a few minutes 🙂
T
Hi!
I agree that he thought the games were fun!! The first one with the cookie tosses was interesting to him, in a “well this is easy” sort of way. Definitely take it on the road so he can play it in front of distractions – if you are near a trial ring, or other dogs running around.
And since you mentioned he was stressy with the weaves, you can play this near the weaves to help get rid of any stress associations (he doesn’t even have to weave yet, just play this game to help relax in the presence of the weaves).O the 2nd video, it wa sa motion override combo with the acclimation game tossed in a little. He did GREAT here and it seemed to pump him up a lot! Yay! The sits in the beginning were really strong – and you’ve built tremendous value for th sit because he was offering them like crazy 🙂 Does he have any moving tricks that are good on a verbal only, like spin or paw waves? That would be the next step here.
When you added more speed from you and the down cue: he did a great job differentiating! The only issue was choking a little, which is a different trick LOL! As you add more speed, stay clean with the reward mechanics and words so he can stay precise as well – you were getting excited so the clean clear reward delivery and markers from earlier in the session were not as crisp here.Both of these games will be good for your outside the ring routines at trials, both to get him comfy and pump him up 🙂 We will be building on these soon, and he looks more than ready for more distractions and locations to be added.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
>> I haven’t made an “out” cue for Select yet.
This is an easy one to teach and is pretty useful for AKC and UKI. I can dig up some ways to teach it if yo are interested: easily taught indoors in the a/c for when the summer heat is too insane (like it seems to be this summer!)
>>I haven’t done a weave threadle cue yet, but I’ve thought about it. Honestly, Select’s weaves were very slow and “stressy” before he got hurt so we didn’t do a lot of weave training. Do you find you use this cue a lot? I’ve never felt like I really needed it with Taken, but am certainly open to it.>>
I added the weave threadle cue to the list because I think I will need it with the 3 young dogs – it is appearing more and more on European courses, which means UKI will grab hold of it then it will be in AKC. I believe there was a course at AKC nationals this year where it would have been useful. So the cue is in progress so I am ready when I need it – I have used it exactly zero times with any of my other dogs over the course of 20-something years of agility LOL!
With that in mind, though – I have used the threadle/wrap cue exactly one time in the 20-something years of agility (and I pulled it out as a save move at nationals when I chickened out on a blind and had no other choice – lesson there was to get the damn blind LOL!!) However, the threadle/wraps are the height of fashion in Europe and are already appearing in UKI – mostly in training courses but in trial courses too. I personally don’t love the threadle/wrap but the judges like it and some of the courses leave the handler no other option (Games Package 3 includes work on, you guessed it, that darned threadle/wrap LOL!)
>>No ‘soft’ collection cues on jumps, but I’ll be working on soft cues off the DW. I’m going to use “Ley” and “Rah” (basically the first part of Left and Right).>>
These might be VERY useful on jumps and you can probably use the same verbals as your DW turn verbals! The dogs do not get confused by that. And you’ll use the soft turn verbals ALL the time.
So in terms of priority – I would put the soft turn verbals at the top of the “Should Add” list (thankfully they are easy to teach and add). Then the threadle/wrap verbal, then at the bottom of the priority list would be the weave threadle (after getting him crazy happy with the weaves :))
T
I noticed a typo – it should say “GOOD work on these too” right at the beginning, not just “work on these too” LOL!! Sorry!
>> I could not get the ending of course 3 in my head. It did not compute LOL. Julie thought I was nuts for not getting it as it made perfect sense to her, but both Túlka and I needed more rewards at the end of 3.
Ha! That sounds just like Julie 🙂 If the sequence doesn’t make sense in your head, try different handling – usually it is the handling that doesn’t make sense to your brain and that is why you felt uncomfortable with it.
>>I like your idea of having two rewards for her when I have one at the end. She totally deserved it and I think we should make it Irish for course 3’s ending coffe>>
Rewards for everyone! Perfect!!!!!!!!!
T
Hi!
>>I have to remember I can talk to her when I can’t see her in the tunnel LOL. That makes sense as I felt like I had to hold the serp at :19 and “catch her” as she was going past since she didn’t know where I was.
Yes – a great reminder from these courses is to tell her how you want her to exit the tunnels – and tell her when she is a solid 5 feet from entry. That will make your life as a handler much easier 🙂
>>I really want to try the Goldilocks moment again :).
DO IT! Even if you just set up that part.
>>Dang I have to remember the power of Decel! I was busy focused on timing/position. Just added a checklist on my iPhone: Connection, Feet pointing line, One more step?, Timing, Decel, Verbal, My Position. Hopefully help me broaden my analysis in the moment. Thanks!!!!
Instead of one more step, tell yourself to keep moving, keep moving, keep moving, never stop (ok, almost never LOL!)
And we will be working on walk through stuff to help apply this (early August) because you are correct that we need to have this all planned in advance and remember it all (written checklists on my phone always help me :))T
Hi!
>> What I’m seeing at trials (sometimes) is hitting the entry with a lot of speed. She often gets the entry but can’t hold onto it and pops out at pole 3/4 and then gets back in. >>
She is probably more excited at trials and moving faster 🙂 You can get her more whipped up in training to add that speed: do a little set up of a curved tunnel then 6 weaves then a curved tunnel – have her do the curved tunnel 3 or 4 times in a row then into the weaves 🙂 I suggest 6 weaves to start because she will probably be more successful and you can reward quicker. Eventually you can do it on 12 weaves.
>>I love NFC/FEO and that is a great idea about tying it to a leash to get around the no toss rule!
Well, AKC likes rules, so we can figure out ways to creatively apply the rules hahaha!!
>>When using NFC/FEO do you get better results using it consistently or intermittently? I’ve bene wondering about that.>>
EXCELLENT question. In the beginning of a trial career, I use the NFC option consistently to transfer the behavior to the ring (I have 3 dogs that will be starting their trial careers soon and so I will be doing a TON of NFC runs LOL!!!). When they are successful, I fade it and go to intermittently. Then when they are experienced, I do it rarely to help maintain behaviors in the ring (my 8 year old dog still sees some NFC here and there to keep the contacts and weaves in tip top shape.
T
Good morning!
>> know this is something I’m also doing in trials…. Missing just that one more step to make things clearer for her. And then to keep turning my feet/body towards the line I want her to take and stay in the moment with her. I feel myself get into my head and miss those moments.>>
One thing you can do is over-handle a bit to make sure she gets commitment – and don’t worry as much about how tight the turns are. She turns really well! So to help you keep moving, you can over-help as you get into sync on the big courses. Yes, we will keep looking at where you can be earlier and such, but it is better to get commitment and then smooth out the turns than it is to not have commitment. With commitment, you’ll get used to running the big courses and then the timing will be easier.
>>So when running tight wraps (left/right) should we run our path towards the left or right station (to stay out of the middle) or even be running a bit towards the outside of the station? If I can remember during walk throughs to target a side then perhaps I won’t put myself right in the middle of her path. >>
If I am understanding this correctly (not a lot of coffee on board yet haha) – I tend to run to the outside of the stanchion/wing to give the wrap in.
T
They are both great turning dogs indeed! The other thing I thought of was that you can plop the reward in past the landing spot (after they pass you) as you move forward to your next position on these, so they really drive in more to get to it.
Tracy
Hi! Thanks for the update, it sounds like the games are going well!!
<< My question is that with the food toss and then reorientate – how do you use this at a trial- or am I thinking too far ahead… I use it outside the ring and in new places, and if/when my dogs are distracted by other people and dogs (I used it with Contraband near the ring at a flyball tournament to keep his jets from exploding :)) It can't really go into the ring because it is a cloud-based game but is perfect for outside the ring! Fusion sounds like she is doing really well! Box finds it harder, so split the games into easier chunks. Move less or ask for easier behaviors or stay further from the distractions. Because he might shut down, it is important to keep his rate of success really high. You might need to move less when asking for the sits and downs, and also be further from the obstacles for the other games. He has a conditioned arousal in the presence of the obstacles, so starting further will really help - then over time you can get closer. Let me know if this makes sense! Keep me posted 🙂 Tracy
Hi!
Refreshing the 2o2o is perfect, that behavior often slides a bit when we are running courses 🙂>> The videos have the sound edited out but I will leave the sound on next time. I have always felt so self conscious
The sound is useful because it helps me figure out what helps the most! And we all sound like nuts haha!! I try to edit out the parts where I sing to the dogs hahaha
>>and feel like I don’t know what I am doing that I have only competed one time with each dog.
I never would have guessed! You looked very smooth and connected!!! I figured you had plenty of ring time already with them 🙂
>>
My former
Coach was so critical of me that I felt stupid. She used to say in front of the entire class “ 9 years of university and you have no idea what you are doing”.>>Omg! That’s terrible!! I’m glad she is your FORMER coach. You totally know what you’re doing, don’t let anyone bring you down! My job here is to just tell you what works best and give ideas to add to your toolbox 🙂
>>Bob is 8 and Pete is 7 and I feel that I let them down.
From the video, it was obvious that both boys love you and love agility with you! You are a fabulous partner to them and they most certainly didn’t look like you let them down 🙂
>> Your critique has given me some confidence again. ( to be honest I was so worried about sending any video lol).
Yay! Keep sending video, you three looked great and we are going to have fun this summer 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>>The Regionals are this coming weekend at the Wide world of Indoor sports in Kingstown, RI. do not relish going there to practice ringside transitioning…to stressful! Am planning to go to Kim’s next Tuesday to work while other dogs are working.>>
I used to love going to that Regional!! It probably won’t be that big this year so maybe it won’t be too stressful? Even if you just play near the crating area, or near the ring during breaks? It is a nice air conditioned training opportunity 🙂
The cemetery looked distracting! And windy, which adds distraction too! High value treats helped and you were so patient. I am sure it felt like HOURS while you were waiting for him but but it was really only a couple of second when you had the lower value treats going. The high value treats eliminated the distractions – awesome!!!
Another field trip option is to a park where there might be a dog park? Now, don’t bring him into the dog park – just stay outside of it, maybe 30 feet away, and use it as a distraction 🙂Going to Kim’s place to train is PERFECT! She knows what you are working on so I am sure it will be great!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! I think the Road Show should help him be able to enter any environment with focus 🙂 Just wait til the game we add in the next package
He did well with the verbal cues here! Both the down and the turn cues looked good with you walking slowly. The down was little bit harder during the dance party… but I thought the turn was snappier! He likes to dance LOL! The turn was harder when you did the jumping jacks and your hands were over your head: I think that is because it looks a little like the body cue you use when you want him to jump up – but that is GREAT because he has to really listen to the verbals!! Yay!
He is ready for you to add more motion to the ‘motion override’ game so we can eventually build it up to having you run 🙂
Great job!
Tracy
Hi! Great job here!
THe one step sending on the wings was har for him at first – but then he picked it up really nicely! You can be a little quicker to toss the treat out there so he can get it pretty immediately for committing. He is definitely ready to do it from a tunnel now!The lazy game on jumps – I think he was pretty darned speedy considering how lazy (on purpose) you were LOL! I am super happy with his work – yes, he was checking in with you a little but that was because you were not moving much at all – for example, he just needed a little more motion to know for sure he was allowed to go to the yellow jump. But overall he was really driving those lines – galloping to them. We don’t see the dogs going faster than that on this game, until we start going faster.
So, since his commitment looks great here: onwards to more motion with the one-step send and leave with this setup and also the Wingin It games as well as the sequences with this setup.
Lovely work!
Tracy
