Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
This went beautifully, she showed an immediate concept transfer. This will set us up nicely for when we start to get a little nuttier with it this weekend LOL! Since she is offering to go around it on the barest twitch of your leg, you can feed her cookies to stick with you before you send her so you can be ready 🙂 You can also add challenge by starting a little further away too!
Is that her on your shirt? Or your other pup?
Great job!!
TracyHi!
>>As you suggested, we did some serpentine “prep” work without a hand target. Is this what you had in mind? Keiko seems to get the idea, no matter what angle I set her on. >>
Yes, this is good serp prep! And she was an absolute rockstar by always taking the jump and never skipping directly to the yummies, especially on the harder angles. Happy dance!!!
>>Also, I’m pleased that when the treat is next to her, she still comes to the jump and takes it before going to the reward.
YES! that is an important element of the game, because I have seen so many adult dogs *not* take the jump in favor of driving ahead to a tasty tunnel or something 🙂
This is going really well, so we can build on it in 2 ways:
first, you can move your position over to the wing more. You were more on the center of the bar here, so you can add challenge by first lining up so your belly is facing the exit wing, and half of your body is visible between the uprights.
If that goes well, we add MORE challenge by having you line up so that your body is mostly past the exit wing and the only thing she can see between the uprights will be your serp hand. Whoa! Harder 🙂
second, see if she will go to the reward on your get it verbal without you turning your shoulders – this helps prepare for when we add motion to this, to get her to go back out on the line while you are moving forward. So for this game, you will be entirely frozen in position, don’t move a muscle until after she eats her cookie: it will help her understand with more independence because she won’t need any physical cues to complete the serpentine in-and-out.
Great job!Tracy
These are all really good!
For your turn cue, that is the rear cross/turn away cue. Do you have a turn-towards cue for the soft turns? It doesn’t have to be left or right, it can be a turn towards me word like “come”. Also, have you thought about a wrap cue, as something separate from the general turn cue? I just re-read your list, is “around” your wrap cue? Just getting it all straight in my mind 🙂T
Hi there!
He is totally getting the wraps from your side now! Note how he is leading with his head, turning his head nice and tight around the stanchion. And he didn’t seem to hae any difficulty when you went to the big container thing LOL!!! Excellent! On your next session, using the big container, warm up like this for a couple of reps but you stay facing forward (don’t turn with him, because we are going to have you move away soon). And it that goes well, you can go directly into Turn and Burn! He looks ready for it!
Your lap turns are looking really good too! I only have one minor detail that I think will help him drive in faster: your magic cookie hand had you palm turned up but it was more of a closed fist. See if you can put the cookie in your fingertips as you show it to him (index finger and middle finger touching your thumb) so your hand is kind of open. That seems to drive the pups to us faster than when the hand is fully closed. You can do it that way with both an actual cookie and an invisible cookie LOL! It is the same hand position that I use on course for the cue (but without a cookie :))
>>I tried doing the turns with the prop and it felt so weird and he wasn’t getting it. I think my prop placement was off, so I’ll try those again.>>
Drop in some video! It might have been where the prop was, or how you stepped back. We will get it sorted out. Nice work here!
TracyHi!
The wraps are looking good! You were starting to leave earlier and earlier, and that is great! You can start him a little further back from the stanchion so you can start to do the FC and leave as he is arriving at it, and then before he gets to it – pushing the limits of commitment 🙂 Using food on this is fine – he can drive to your hand for the food, mixed in with the food rewrd thrown back to him near the exit. He was having trouble seeing the naked cookie when it was dropped there, so you can consider a food holder like a lotus ball or treat hugger. The other option for food back there is to tuck your pet tutor in behind the wing, which adds another layer of distraction because he has to go past it to wrap the wing 🙂 And sometimes you can click the PT and other times you can cue him to come to your hand. He is doing so well, though, that for now I think the bulk of the reinforcement can come from your hand.He did an awesome job on both sides of you for the tunnel!! He was happy with the toy reward and having it on the PT was a clever way to build the PT into the game 🙂 To re-install the food, you can create a bit of a loop: tunnel – PT for treat – toy from you – tunnel – PT for treat – toy from you. The pairing of the treat to the toy after the tunnel will build that value so the treat will be fun for him too after a few sessions 🙂
>>I put the target on a tub. I am starting to hate the target and might need a break from it. I’m pretty sure I left this mostly unedited. Fizz is meh. >>
We totally don’t want you to hate the target!! So yes, if it is driving you nuts, take a break from it 🙂 I think you are on the right track in the first part of this – the target is more obvious and there is more to the behavior. Try to do more reps of the same thing before changing the picture – you did a couple of reps and then changed your position. You can do a quickie session of 10 reps of: he puts his feet on, gets 2 or 3 cookies in position, then a ‘bravo’ release but don’t throw the cookie too far away – drop it a foot away so it is easy for him to step off then step back on. You’ll know when he is ready to see a different picture: he will drive back after getting a cookie and get right back on it. The ‘meh’ moments were after position changes, so he wasn’t quite ready for those yet 🙂
>>And he wasn’t super into the food. I might need to try chicken or hotdogs or something.
Try big cold chicken chunks that are easy to use without getting crumbly – anything he loves to eat 🙂 Higher value food might be a big part of the answer.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
Whoa, when you added the ‘burn’, look at his speed! Wow! Good job with this game – yes. he loved that toy 🙂 I think he hits the barrel more when you wait til he is all the way around, and he seemed to have no trouble letting you leave when he was halfway around… so at this point always try to leave when he halfway around or sooner 🙂 You can save the verbal party until he has fully finished coming around as you run away, but you can start sliding away as soon as he is halfway around or sooner. His commitment looks lovely!Strike A Pose on the jump:
>>He never cheated, even when the food was already in the bowl>>Gold star! Good boy!!!!
This is looking really strong!! He did really well on all the angles even with the cookie in the bowl. Yay! And don’t worry about the target being a little high – we are going to fade out the actual touch anyway 🙂
Speaking of fading the touch:
On the 2nd rep, did he touch the target a bit sideways then head to the bowl? That is also acceptable because it is what the finished serp looks like. Same at 1:00. And since you are able to do this with a cookie in the bowl on the ground – you can go to the Advanced Level whree we fade the target and just let him whip through the behavior. Everything is the same except… he needs to come *towards* the target hand but does not need to touch it. You can fade the touch by giving him his ‘get it’ cue just before he gets to the target hand. Then you can fade out the target in your hand. The behavior should look like what he did a 1:00 🙂Tandem Turns – you are doing a great job! They look pretty smooth, they don’t look awkward at all! If they feel a little awkward, you can play with pulling him a little past you with the magic cookie had, start turning him away and *then* start turning your feet – I think you were turning your feet at the same time as you were turning him, so you sometimes ended up a little tangled up 🙂 When he is more experienced with it, this will be even easier 🙂
And yes, using 2 hands is easier for us humans and I think it is the only cue we use 2 hands for, which makes it more obvious for the pups. Your cue at :40 was really good (you also took your time turning your feet on that one, which also helped).Great job here!!!
Tracy
Hi!
>>He needs to “feel” my movement, or maybe more correctly said he needs to know the new direction almost as soon as he steps toward the prop because at this distance he’s making a decision to set himself up for the turn essentially as soon as he leaves for the prop. Is that about right>>
Yes, I would say that is it! If the cue to go to the prop is happening when he would be, say, landing from the previous jump – then yes, he would be making the decision on how to take the prop that early. I used to think small and medium dogs would give us more time to show info… I was wrong. LOL!!! They need it nice and early, just like the big dogs 🙂
T
Hi!
>> I left his ball in my training bag for the runs today and got it out after each run ended. He knew where it was.
Try to be more gradual in introducing him back to running with no obvious reinforcement. I leave the reinforce in a place that is highly visible (like a Manners Minder on a chair or his ball on a chair) and start off by sending him to it for just holding the stay. Then build up very gradually the number of obstacles he does before you send him to it – start with very few then gradually build up to eventually get full courses. That will help maintain the speed while fading the toy in your hand. And on anything that is massive (like these courses :)) if you are going to run them start to finish, have the ball with you for now. You can fade the ball-in-hand on these courses by doing, maybe 1-2-3 then sending to the reward. Then 4-5 then reward. and so on.
>> I’m still not sure how I can reward him with a ball at an AKC show.
By the time he gets back to the show, he should be able to do the whole run with the ball sitting on a chair outside the ring, including the leashing up element at the end required by AKC, and be able to run really fast 🙂 And there are training in the ring options in AKC, you can work out using the ball there too (you will probably need to leave it at the start line then send him to it in those runs).
On the walk throughs here:
>>This course seems to be a lot more difficult than I am currently used to. For the ending part, I got really confused about how I wanted to do it.
Yes, these are really big technical courses with handling everywhere (no real spots to relax and run :)) Lots of planning and execution will keep you on your toes and then AKC and UKI will feel MUCH easier 🙂
I think your planning went really well overall. Your connection and pace on the walk throughs were really good overall! A couple of things to remember that I noticed in the walk through (first one and second one):– on the 1-2-3 opening, planning it as a threadle was a good handling plan! He is still learning to understand those independently, so for now on the courses you would need to plan to get closer to 3 to help him out. The other option is to replace the threadle handling with something like 2 blinds – you execute those really nicely and he reads them well!
– on the 6-7-8 section: planning to slice him to the right over 7 works but it is a lot longer and slower than turning him to the left over 7 because there is so much more yaradage – it is one of the rare times that the collected turn would be better than the extension turn. That does up a threadle 7-8 but you would be in a great position to show it to him – you can either do a rear cross on the flat at 7, or you can blind cross landing of 6 so he goes to 7 already on your right.
– you mentioned getting confused on the ending with trying to figure out what to do – you can pick a plan then figure out if you can show it in time, based on where you would need to be when he exits the previous obstacle. For example, your plan was to serp/blind on the landing side of 14 – so you would need to be heading towards the center of the bar at 14 when he was coming around the exit wing of 13. In the walk, your position was more at the entry wing of 14, which could set you up nicely to handle with a forced front or forced blind on the takeoff side of 14.
On the runs –
The cues on the 1-2-3 threadle required a bit more independent understanding than he is ready for at this stage, so this is a good sequence to work on to solidify the skill for sure! On the second run, when you got closer to 3 and you were right in front of him, he did well, so that is something to remember on these (as well as other options such as double blinds.6-7-8 section – the second run was smoother here because you kept your feet pointing to the slice line a lot better. On the first run, your feet turned and it looked like a rear cross on the flat, which shows us that it would be pretty easy to turn him left over 7 🙂
You call call him sooner before he goes into the tunnel #9 to get a tighter turn to 10, but it looks like he turned nicely to the weaves on the tunnel exit on the first run! Yay! I couldn’t see what he did on the 2nd run 🙂
The blind 12-13 worked nicely!
The landing side serp at 14 was a little late getting out of his way because you were near the entry wing, so you can strategize to get further across before he exits 13.On the ending line – that one was hard to get it the way you wanted in the walk, so the runs also looked different 🙂 You got it in the second run, but it was not what you walked 🙂 In a way, that is GREAT because you held onto it and stay connected and got it!! That is an important skill for sure!!!
A different way of looking at a complex ending like this is to tackle it first, in the walk through: start at jump 13 and do 13 to the end for the first few minutes, to solidfy your plan. There are 2 reasons for this –
it gives you more time to work out the hardest sections and get the plan
and
you will remember it better, because we often remember best what it is that we walked first 🙂Good work tackling this beast of a course 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>Thank you! I am going to work these exercises and do this sequence one more time for you. Then I want to move on to the walk through stuff because I definitely need help on decision making. I have had some awesome runs lately but have had a few small things nq’ing us because I did’t realize the line until I was running it. (subtle turns etc).>>
Perfect! The walk through planning takes practice but really helps get rid of those little NQ things 🙂
>>>Yes, that is Hamilton in the background. I am addicted and driving the hubby crazy because I play it a lot! 🙂>>
Ha! Sorry not sorry, hubby 🙂 My hubby is addicted to it too now 🙂
Good morning!
>>Looking forward to your detailed obsessive analysis.
bwhahahahaha! Who, me?? LOL!!
After watching all 3 videos – she is sorting out but needs a bit of help with the plyometric aspect of it.
video 1, 5 jumps: she does well here for the first couple of intervals (jumps 1-2-3), then she loses a bit of control over the last 2 jumps and you can see the form goes to more of a ‘bucking’ style (trying to go fast on these pushes the weight into the shoulders so she had to think about sitting back into her rear :)) The last rep was good, it was the most balanced over all 5 jumps. That is more of what we are going for 🙂
Video 2: she is deep in thought on these right-to-left-of-screen reps! 🙂 She was 100% trying to sort out how to use her moving parts – focusing almost entirely on her front end (you can see her switching leads, splitting front feet). She was better on the left-to-right reps as you noted – a little ‘hoppy’ side to side which means she is not 100% comfortable with it but definitely this is more of the pushing from the rear we want! (I am guessing that the leading leg is stronger from the get-go when she is moving left-to-right which is why we are seeing the difference?)
Video 3 – she is working out a rhythm when she is moving right-to-left of the screen: bounce-patter (jump 2)-bounce-patter (jump 4). She played with this in video 2 but is solidifying it here. We don’t want her to settle into that being comfortable, we are going to try to help her get her weight back into the rear so she doesn’t have to split her front feet. She was still better going left-to-right but it appears she was starting to split her feet at 1:33: something in the rhythm changed but it was hard to see exactly because she was behind a wing.
So, a couple of ideas for you!
One way to help convince her to work this more from the rear is to start her closer to the first bar, so she does not put her front feet down on the takeoff side of it after you release her to start. After the release, she lifts from the rear and the first hit of the front feet is between 1 and 2. That engages the rear right away – it is slightly more difficult but it adds the plyometrics needed for this type of slice.
The other thing I suggest is to start that on 3 jumps to make sure she is really comfy with the plyometrics and not splitting her front feet at all. Do one or two reps as a warm up, then if she can produce correct form right off the bat go to 5 jumps (in the same session). If not, stay on 3 jumps – form trumps length of grid.
When you do go to 5 jumps, minimize the difficulty a little by keeping them slightly open to get her very comfy with the form. They can be closed enough that she has to find the correct form, but open enough that is it not that difficult to find that form 🙂 Maybe a couple of inches wide, approximately where they were in the first video until the form of the last rep is the first thing she produces , then tighten them a little.
And, you can minimize the distraction of motion by leading out pretty far so all you need to do is release and walk.These zig zags generally take a session where the dog goes “WTH!!!” which she did a couple of times LOL! then a bit of brain re-wiring, followed by a session where the dog has immediate improvements. When we see 2 sessions in a row (doesn’t need to be every day, should be spread out) where the form looks good and effortless – then we tighten it up.
>>In your response above, you mention that she might need the jumps raised a little to help her organize herself. Maybe that’s what I should do?>>
Because she is trying to sort out her front feet, I don’t think raising the bar will help because she would probably hit the bar on the way up or the wing in that case. When she sorts out her front feet and is powering from the rear – then we can raise it up to add challenge for the plyometric element of pushing from the rear.
One thing I find interesting in this grid is that we can sometimes hear it when it is correct form versus incorrect form: you can hear the power of the hind end pushing off! Incorrect form has more noise to it. It is harder to hear on grass but easy to hear indoors.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>When I mess up and turn away, I am not in angry mode, I am in thinking mode.
Yes – planning how to do it right the next time. Sometimes I get frustrated with myself!
>>But he doesn’t know that!!
Exactly! The dogs perceive it as negative punishment (withdrawal of the good stuff like treats/toys/running/attention from da momma) so I also acknowledge the dog’s effort, reward… then plot for the next run 🙂
T
Hi!
Yay! Glad your knee is feeling better, that was fast!!!The BS serps are looking good 🙂 When you have her approaching from an angle (which is when there was a FC after the wing), you have to be pretty insistent with one big step and eye contact to get commitment (there was only one rep on the backside slice and on rep on the backside wrap where you were not insistent and she didn’t push away and ended up on the front. If you want to play with this to add more countermotion on the backside slices, you can move the wing over and send her around it like a post turn – so she exits the wing on a straight line to the backside (no turn or step needed) and you can give the verbal & connection and move forward to get past the exit wing. That will add more challenge because it puts you both on the takeoff side at the same time 🙂 She did really well with the default taking the jump, so I think she is ready for more countermotion!
On the walk versus run:
A few things I noticed in the walk through that can affect the run:
You had good lines and good planning at each step – click/treat! You can definitely add 2 things into the planning and rehearsal process: more connection to your invisible dog, and thinking more about starting the next cue when she exits the previous jump or tunnel. You were looking ahead at the lines on the rehearsals, so in the run you were really working the connection for the first time – that will change your timing of your handling plan.The other thing I noticed was that you can lead out more – you had a relatively short lead out in the walk through, which will potentially cause trouble 2-3 because that line has a bit of a push element to it.
On the first run, I think your pace overall matched the pace you used in the walk through, and that is great!! And the connection was in place (yay!) but working the connection caused oopsies in other places – you were a little late on 5 which pulled the bar, and late on the FC 7-8 so she was a little wide. You were not disconnected – it is more like you were planning the timing and seeing her while running her, rather than in the walk through, which makes it a lot harder to execute in the high speed run 🙂
So when you do the next walk through, install the connection very early in the walk through and try to see where she would be,so you can add in a lot of timing reminders – especially when you are walking at higher speed.
The 2nd run was better because you had already rehearsed it at speed on the first run!The bar at 2 was a product of the shorter lead out, I believe – you were trying to set the line without being far ahead, so she was trying to adjust over it. On the 2nd run, you used a longer lead out and it worked a lot better! Looking at the side-by-side there, your line was very similar between the walk and the 2nd run, but note on the walk you release and start running when you were more like halfway between 1-2 and on the run you released when you were closer to 2. So that goes on the list of things to remember – lead out as far as possible to set the line in the opening (she has great stay!)
I liked that your pace in the walk and the run side-by-side was pretty darned close!! That bodes well – you are getting a sense of how fast you need to move and where you need to be, which is really helpful for getting your little speedy sports car around a course! Nice! I think adding in more connection to your invisible dog will make it much easier on that first run.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!!
These are looking really good!!Sequence 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n9YsVymk-s&feature=youtu.be)
VERY nice run! A couple of small details for you:You can open up your upper body back to him for the serpentine at 4 a little sooner, so he sees you serping before he exits the tunnel. That will help him set up the turns back to 5 sooner. At :18 as he was sorting out how to jump 4, your shoulders were forward so he knew to take 4 but didn’t know to take it turning left to 5 – so he had to make the turn on landing at :19.
Your backside send looked great! You can disconnect and drive in for the BC on the exit of 6 sooner: when you see him looking at the backside line, keep saying around but turn your head forward to run into the gap so you can do the BC sooner. I believe he has the skills to let you do this 🙂
You can add a wrap verbal on the exit of 7 so he can drive back around sooner.
On the serpentine at 10 back to the last tunnel, this is a spot where you can open up for the serp a lot sooner too. At :26, he is driving in but turning to his left becaue your shoulders are forward – but he needs to turn to his right to pick up the line to the tunnel. You opened up as he landed at :27, so he did adjust on landing to get the tunnel but but it creates a wider than desired turn. So, as he exits the wing of 9, yo ucan be running past 10 like you did (nice position!) but with your serp arm back and center of chest facing the center of the bar: that will help him set up the turn to the tunnel before he takes off for the jump.Seq 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj–RLZ7jew&feature=youtu.be) This also went really well!
>>One of the courses from week 3 (where I do a whole bunch of threadles!!) I don’t know why I turned him the way I did on jump 5.>>
I think this is the one you were taking about – yes, that 5 jump requires a decision making moment 🙂 It is a doable line but probably a little slower than sending him to the other side of 5 by blind crossing between 4-5 (faster to get to 5 and then faster to get to 6). So, remember to explore both slice options on backsides!
On the 4 jump, this is a serpentine line that you can show sooner as well, same as what I was bugging you about on the first sequence above 🙂 He didn’t see you open up for the serp until about :05 when he had already made his takeoff decision, so he had to finish the turn after landing (:06).
Turning him that direction over 5, I suggest a spin on 5 to tighten it (rather than a post turn which presents a slightly wider line).
He threadles really well, and that threadle to the tunnel was especially nice! And you had to hustle to get the backside at 8 and you did, well done! Because the threadle to the tunnel requires yo uto rear cross the tunnel entry, you can get rid of that one extra step into you that he took o nthe exit but yelling GO! or an extension cue so he exits the tunnel in extension and not looking for you. Very nice independent backside on 8 and nice job showing him the correct side of 9!!Seq 3: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5-LkH-Gi3Q&feature=youtu.be)
Also lovely! Let me know if you get sick of hearing how nice these are LOL!
And you are connecting beautifully throughout!!!He is reading your deceleration really nicely on the #4 jump here! You can rotate one stride sooner, so then you can do the throw back when he lands.
Speaking of the throwback – a ‘style’ suggestion: at :05, you are using your right arm across your body to ‘swoosh’ him to the wrap jump. That is technically correct, but it is a bit too much of a forward cue for some dogs and sends them a little wider – and that is what happened here with Cavu 🙂 So you can try a different style of how to handle the throwback – rather than swoosh back with your arm across your body, transfer the cue into the arm next to the jump (left arm here) and just softly/gently drop that left hand down on the takeoff side of the jump so he gets a slightly stronger collection cue and less swoosh. I call it a ‘brake’ hand. Same thing on the wrap on 9 at :11 – less swoosh and more brake hand to get it nice and tight 🙂Here is a visual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c44E976avHM
Seq 4: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0oE2tIfui4&feature=youtu.be)
Another nice one 🙂
On the 4-5, the backside serp on 4 looked good, but I think the throwback to 5 was too hard to get the rotation in on time and it delayed you getting back for the threadle to the tunnel. You can play with simpler handling options there, such as keeping him on your left over 4 then rear crossing 5 (that should put you waaaay ahead for the tunnel threadle without sacrificing the turn on 5!). You can also do a BC 4-5 – serp on your left til you are in the gap, then BC – on this particular one, you would probably also need to threadle him to 5 – but you would can then send him t o5 and be moving forward the whole time. Moving backwards in the throw back made it harder to explode back to 6-7, which made it harder to then get the BC at the end.Seq 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIQzFrQcycg&feature=youtu.be)
Another nice one teehee!!!
On that #2 jump: any time you see a backside wrap, ask yourself if there is a slice that can be faster – sometimes there will not be, but in this case, there is: entering the #2 backside on the other side and exiting the same side you exited here. That will be faster. He is a nice wrapping dog, but the slice line will be faster because the collection is minimized and distance is likely to be the same.
On the threadle 5-6, you can give him a directional (or even a name call) when he lands from 4 so he is already turning over 5. The threadle cue is really all about 6, so the name call or directional will help him turn tighter on 5 which makes 6 much easier (he had a hard jumping effort there at :14)
The wrap on jump 9 (:18) is also a wrap that can be done with a soft brake arm (left arm in this case) to get it titgher. Also, the 9 jump gives you a slice option as well – and it will be faster here to have him turn right as opposed to the left wrap (fewer turns and shorter distance). It might take an extra handling move (probably a blind cross between 8 and 9) but you can send to the tunnel to get up there nicely 🙂Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi Denise! I am glad it makes sense! I like to obsess…. oops, I mean I like to make it systematic haha! And I like to try things a couple of different ways and time them each way. I used to think the shorter distance would make a bigger difference for the smaller dogs (like my Paps and your Schnauzers) and one of my favorite instructors, Jenny Damm, pushed my to run the small dogs the same way I run the big dogs – and time it. Turns out, the small dogs are faster on the extension lines even when there is more distance, same as the big dogs. I also take into account the structure of the dog and the strengths of the dog. For example, my Papillon, Nacho, is big boned and a little straight, so his strengths are on extension lines and NOT on wraps (he has to slow down a lot to do wraps). My big dog is more balanced and angulated, so he can produce nice wraps but he has incredible ground speed so slice lines are almost always faster for him too!
T
