Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi!
That is definitely odd!!! She seemed happy and she was driving to them, but couldn’t get in. And I agree that your handling was very clear aw and also the entry was not that challenging. When you did it on the other side, was it also a right side entry? Just curious to know if she had any trouble with the left side.I think your theory makes sense: different base. Dogs are not known to be good at generalizing so the different base could be the issue. No worries – you can give her a day off from weaves and I bet she is fine. Also, you can have 6 of your normal poles then add these 6 as poles 7-12 to help get her used to them.
You can revisit these when she is comfy with these particular poles. I think setting up the jumpers course is a great idea!
Tracy
Wow, I’m really excited to see this session! Her first teeter and last teeter were my favorites, she was really driving across! The others were good too! The handling elements looked good too but the independent teeter made me really do a big happy dance.
Did she know there was a cookie on the target for that first one? It was a really fabulous performance!!! Having the MM out there is a good visual for her too. At some point later on, we will game plan fading the target and MM but not yet – her teeter performance is still percolating and I want her to be insanely confident before we fade anything.
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
These went well, I have some training ideas for the weaves!
Here are some thoughts from the videos:Sequence 1 – yes, she totally had a WTF moment when she realized you were not coming with her on the weaves LOL! She got more comfy later on but I think this is indicative of her concerns with the weaves. Plus, she was not doing a rhythmic striding on them here (or in any of the reps). She is big enough to ‘swim’ or bounce – so I think we can spend the next few weeks doing a retrain to both get the striding AND get her more independent so she loves loves loves the poles.
How did you originally train them? 2x2s? If so, take 6 poles with 2×2 bases and open them up a tiny bit (maybe 2 inches?) so they are easier for her to swim or bounce through. And, we will show her all of these independence challenges with *all* of the rewards tossed out past the end (not from your hand) or you can even use a Manners Minder as a reward target. Getting her really focused on the weaves regardless of what you do will help both in training and also in trials.
If you didn’t use 2x2s, you can open up whichever method you used 🙂A handling question from her at :23 – she was not comfy jumping in towards you in that position pro the jump after the weaves, is that normal that she does that? When you were further across the bar at :44 she was fine and she was fine on the other reps in the videos, so we will just chalk it up to an oopsie moment unless you see that happen more often.
2nd video – she was more comfy on the first set of poles with you moving away laterally in each sequence but popped out on the 2nd set both times on the first 2 sequences. The slightly open poles and rewards out ahead will really help that too, so she can do the poles no matter how many cartwheels or dance moves you do LOL
The handling overall really good! There was one added line of jumps (no problem, you were connected and kept going). I wasn’t sure if at 1:22 and 1:51 you wanted her to come to the inside of the wing or just needed more connection to push her to the outside of it?
3rd video – teeter in the middle – what is her criteria? It was hard to tell if she was supposed to do a bang-and-go, a 2o2o, or a 4on. She slows down because she doesn’t know when the release is coming (like at :35) and so she has some questions there. On these independence games, you can use a target to help her drive to position (and get rewarded there, by tossing the reward to the target) so she has no questions and so you can move away very independently.
On handling suggestion: on your spins, you tend to be late starting them which makes you late finishing them, which causes her to wait for info. At :09 and :26 on jump 4, you should be already finished with the FC rotation part of the spin so you can go to the BC element. You were still facing forward to commit her, so the spin didn’t start til after landing so she was not sure which side to be on (the first 2 reps were either a repeat or amazingly identical! LOL!) Trust her commitment so you can send and start the rotation before she takes off.
The BC at :36 was a tiny bit late getting the connection on the new side, which is why she picked up going around the pole. But then you got the connection in and got back on track nicely.
The ending line on all reps looked great!Nice work here! Let me know what you think about the ideas for more independent on the weaves!
have fun!
TracyHi!
>> pity video wasnt closer as her eyes nearly leaped out of her head with shock that it came so big she was in heaven.>>
That is so funny! The person who can create dog training treats out of horse poop, sheep poop, etc, will be the first dog training billionaire LOL!
She looked great here! Very exciting!!!!
>> I need to stop thinking about what she is doing and think about me..>
Yes – plan your lines more smoothly. She doesn’t seem to get frustrated when things go a little sideways, but we don’t want to create any frustration. So having a plan will help. The distances here were very true to what she will see in the ring, so it was great to see her finding her lines! She was a little distracted by the toy sometimes, so a smaller less obvious toy will help too (or having it in your pocket)
I really loved her focus in a new place! Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Have a blast at your seminar today!!!! I am sure it will be great 🙂
The warm up is always good! The look on his face when you ran laterally made me snort – he was all like “WHERE DID YOU GO AND WHY ARE YOU NOT RUNNING” hahaha because much of his teeter frame of reference was with you running near it and past it.
And yes, he was asking if he should turn around and run back up the teeter? He definitely had opinions there. Your position was good for a very experienced dog but because he is learning these challenges, you can be closer to the center of the bar just to teach him to drive off the teeter tight and not go back up it.
Doing the bang game reps with you behind him was a really good brain-bender! It think he figured it out in the context of the very recognizable game. And then on the next full rep, he had it perfectly. And same at 1;42 – he is still thinking a bit of ‘what the heck??” when you are so lateral but he is being GREAT about driving across the board and into position.
On these reps where he has to do the whole teeter without you, you can totally leave a surprise cookie on the target sometimes, for an immediate reward. He won’t be sad about the 🤣 and it will help remind him to look for the target and not at you 🙂
The handling overall looked fabulous! You were especially strong on the BC from jump 3 back to the wing wrap – nice timing and connection, he seemed very tight and fast there.
He had one little question at 1:32 – sending to the wingless backside. Being a wingless, it is a little harder to see and your turned your shoulders away from him before he could lock onto it. So think of it as more of an arm-back, very connected one-step send and not a shoulder turn. You stayed connected for longer at 2:01 and he nailed it.Great job! Let me know what you think! And have a blast today!
TracyHi! That’s right, now I remember! Yes, keeping the hand low helped him out.
I also realize that we are being very obsessive about it (in a good way haha) because his position on the end of the board there is better than 97% of agility dogs out there! But because of his talent, I believe we can get him right to the very end all the time, to put him in the very top 1%.Good morning!
Same good opening as course 1 (yes, 3 is a backside slice if you want to run it again)
Looking for the chase moments: I think the first one was at :19. Coming out of the long tunnel, and since she is small, when you turned a little forward (pointing ahead of you) so all she could really see was your back – and it looks like she saw the shoulder turn and was reading it like a blind cross. You peripherally saw it happen and tried to fix it, but she was pretty irate about it LOL!
So it was not really a chase moment – it was more of a break in connection. When you were miles ahead on other elements of this course and connected, she was perfect – so try to make eye contact back to her especially on the tunnel exits (I know – make the eye contact there from miles ahead AND keep running as hard as you can :)) When you are that far ahead on the longer distances, lock your dog side arm back, extended to her, so she can see your upper body. That should eliminate the error you had here.
And if you have other chase moment videos, feel free to post them so we can sort out why she is doing it.Saving that moment partially contributed to the off course a-frame, but also that delicious high value a-frame was right on her line. She would need a stronger left turn cue there – either send and leave sooner if she responds to that and will turn tightly. Or, you can add a brake arm (outside arm to ask for more collection). Or a spin! But a spin would last option because you have to rotate and we don’t want you to lose any ground with such a speedy dog.
When you fixed it at :32 you had the opposite arm going but I think that was more for the serp after it?
Nice backside after the teeter! One of the summer goals will be to allow you to send and leave on that, without needed to use your opposite arm to cue coming in over the bar. Your backside cue should also mean “take the jump” so you should be allowed to just send her to the backside side and run through the the blind on the exit. The upper body rotation takes a while and delays your running… and again, because she is little (no hang time) and FAST FAST FAST we are going to do as much as we can to let you just run and handle minimally.
Now, she is only 2, so I don’t know how well she understands to go to the backside AND take the jump. But try it without speed, just send to a backside, stay connected, and walk past *without* using the opposite arm cue and let’s see what she does 🙂
She was a little high on the RDW at :42, so if you trained with a mat, feel free to put it back on for these big independence moments so she rehearses correct behavior there.
Great weaves at the end!!! Layering the tunnel – the video stopped but it looks like she had a question about taking 15? I think the cue was late there – you can start giving her a go verbal or out or jump verbal while she is around pole 6 or 8 so she exits looking forward. You gave the cue after she was done here, so she had already turned towards you (the weave exit turns them towards us there too).
Doing it without the layer worked to get it because you could show her 15 really nicely but it made the line 17-18 harder to smooth out.
Her weaves look really independent in the opening AND here in the closing, and that is GREAT because you can really do whatever handling works best! Yay! And it will be a really good handling challenge to start giving her the next cue while she is still weaving 🙂Great job!
TracyGood morning!
She looked really strong here with finding the entry and staying in. I have a couple of questions that can help us figure out the next steps:
About the toy – yep, I have seen that in a lot of dogs including my own. Twitching the toy sometimes is so distracting that they pop out. When you were holding the toy and she popped out, was the MM also out ahead? I found that by using the MM exclusively for a couple of sessions but also holding the toy (not throwing it, it was just in my hand) – the popping out stopped. And then I faded the toy in as a reward: the MM was still there, but sometimes I threw the toy instead. That was an easy way to get the dogs ignoring the toy too (and now they just weave for the toy, no MM :))If you were holding the toy and the MM was out there and she still found it difficult, you can ease off the line of motion distractions and make the toy smaller in your hand and see if that helps. We really do want her to weave while you are holding the toy 🙂
Her striding was a little questioning on the video – it could have been that the poles were open as you mentioned, and/or that you were sending from a distance and running away. She was great about getting in and staying in! So you can experiment with this and see how she does with the handling challenges on the 6 closed poles with the MM versus slightly open poles, using the same handling as you did here.
And you can also try setting the line from right next to the wing – by doing it from a distance, she might have been thinking hard about it and that changed her striding. Setting the line from right next to the wing might be easier and then the striding in the poles will be there – and I also think the distraction of you starting next to her and then dramatically running away is a pretty significant challenge 🙂
Let me know how it goes playing around with these options! And she is also looking pretty ready for the sequences if you are ready to do them too 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
>> Since I’d been introducing Sole to this along with Presto, I also did the Pizza game in her class last week and it was pretty amazing. Perhaps it will help unlock her next level of potential!
That is great!! Clarity in this can really help dogs relax in the ring 🙂
>>He can do 12 closed weaves now – even did it in Jackie’s seminar in a sequence! But, as I mentioned when I saw you, he has lost the nice speed and footwork he had a couple weeks ago and he seems more thoughtful and deliberate.
Good boy!!!! Here on the 6 poles, he was speedy and rhythmic… bouncing, not swimming. Totally independent, good boy!
>> But he had no problems with the independence – the only moment was in the middle rep included here he did look back at the end since I was a little late clicking the MM.
Yes! And when he looked at you there, it was appropriate. That is where we would want him to look after the weaves in a sequence if you were in that position. Good boy!
>>It was harder for ME since I had to run into trees. 😉 Also, I noticed that as I do the wrap, I keep moving the clicker from one hand to another, which makes my send a little muddled. >>
Yes, I was chuckling about you running into the trees LOL!! And I don’t think he really noticed the clicker moving.
>> Later this weekend I’ll try this again with a full 12 weave set, although I’ll reduce the reps. I was thinking I may also open the weaves a bit since it’s a new challenge.
Let me see a couple of reps on the closed poles so I can see what he is doing with the striding. Then yes, do some with them a tiny bit open, so we can obsess… I mean so we can look at striding 🙂
>>Tomorrow Presto gets four FEO runs at an ASCA trial. I am hoping to find some longer sequences in the courses and if he’s handling the environment well, also work some weaves (although separately from the long sequences). His teeter is starting to look pretty good too, but not independent enough to do at a trial yet. After tomorrow, our next trial opportunity is UKI at the end of July – its the weekend he turns 18 months, so then I really have a great opportunity for NFC runs!!>>
That is a great plan!!! I am excited for all of your training opportunities!!!!!
Great job here! Keep me posted on the 12 poles 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>> I always tell my instructors to be brutally honest with me.
Training is a collaborative art 🙂 And the video really helps! I will try to give you as much detail and as many ideas as possible 🙂
>>On the weaves I was working with him on open channel weaves going to a treat & train prior to coming up to Colorado. I guess I need to continue that as I was seeing progress in his speed and he certainly loves the treat and train. However I do need to hang back in the weaves and not rely on my motion so much. I am able to pull off the weaves and have some independence but if my overall goal is fully independent weaves I need to be able to send him and go. >>
I like the idea of bringing back the Treat And Train and opening up the poles – the TnT can help with the independence and the open poles make it easy and fast, so you can do more reps without an extra ‘bang’ on his body. And you can work on sending him ahead while you sit in a chair 🙂 or run the other way or run off on 90 degree angles.
>>I was also working on sending him to the tunnel and taking off to the next obstacle before I left.>>
Perfect! Thrown rewards are great for this too – since he likes food, a treat hugger or lotus ball is perfect to for that.
>>I will focus on moving away from him with the toy in the future. Keep me honest. If you see the same thing in a future please call me out on it.
You can also tie that toy to a long line or a long tug toy, and let him chase it while you swing it around. Let his response be your guide: if he lights up and gets right on the toy, you are moving it in a way he likes. If he backs off the toy or stops looking at you, then he is not excited for it. I find that smaller dogs like it better when we are upright and moving the toy away, so having the toy attached to something long can facilitate that 🙂 And I will indeed keep bugging you about it LOL!!
Looking forward to your next videos!
TracyHi!
Yes, I like your idea of using the poles for the Skills Sets! You don’t have to have them all open, just either the entries or exits that you think might be super challenging.And you can say your reset cue and keep turning in a circle, so it doesn’t get accidentally paired with stopping. And you can also stop on purpose and keep giving your weave cue… then throw the ball. Wheeee!
The Skills Sets will be fun! And you can also set up small pieces of the bigger courses. It can all be super fun 🙂
Tracy
Hi!
>> I was so hesitant to post this teeter video because I knew this would end up in an accountability for criteria discussion 😅🤣. He was originally trained in a 2o2o. I’m not the best about holding him in a stop like seen here. We haven’t done a ton in full on run but he’s been offering a stopped 4 on. He’s such a fragile soul sometimes I’ve worried that somehow a butt bounce in a 2o2o might traumatize him so I haven’t pushed the issue. I originally trained by back chaining and then uses the MM at the end, which I should probably revisit.>>
4on can totally work, but clarifying it through lots of rewards will help him be less delicate (the 2o2o is also a great option and I have games to prevent the butt bounce LOL!!)
>>Going back to the obstacle commitment, I think I underuse deceleration with him. One because I don’t really need it with Callie so it’s sometimes an after thought, but mostly because it will usually result in a refusal and orienting back to the mama. And I mean man can he stop on a dime when I decel. >>>
I think we can fix that with changing the placement of reinforcement: all rewards come at the exit of the obstacle and nowhere near you 🙂 I call it Commitment Boot Camp and for 1 month, all rewards are thrown to the landing of jumps and exits of tunnels. Boom! Commitment. Then you can figure out what he needs in terms of cues for extension versus collection. Without commitment being really strong, it is hard to know. So even on a tight turn where you are decelerating: decel, cue a turn… throw the toy. The toy should be thrown approximately to where you want him to land/turn.
>>I don’t really have a soft turn cue in my toolbox at the moment. Left and rights are on my list of training goals that is ever growing. I find the tone which I say jump can cue collection versus extension and I do tend to try to decel with him for soft turns.>>
Let’s get commitment first… and then it will be easy to install the soft turns. We have that on the agenda for the summer 🙂
>>>I am not recalling zigzags
check out this setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Vq_Mv4j0o
>>>Carrie and I were working on my timing 🤣. Unfortunately we didn’t get her in film saying “you need to do that again because you were late with your cue 😜”>>
Ha! I thought I heard her starting your turn cues on time lol
T
Hi!
>> With Ruse and the Seesaw, do you think training a nose touch would be ok?
Yes! I trained many of my dogs with nose touches and it worked out beautifully.
>>I don’t know why Hero scratches, I didn’t teach him that lol.
You didn’t but you did – he offered it and you clicked it immediately LOL! I think he was reading our discussion about it? LOL!
>>Does the cue I give “slam” mean you go to the end of the seesaw and when the seesaw hits the ground you do a nose touch, or does the second part of the behaviour have to have a different cue?
I tell my nose touch dogs to teeter (which means run to the teeter) then ‘target’ (same as slam) which means run into the position AND nose touch.
>>I’m thinking to set up one of the jumping courses tomorrow to have a crack at with both dogs maybe Sunday. Or would it be better to tackle an agility course first?
Either one is great!
On the Hero video:
He did SUPER well here! Only little details. I was really excited by his weaves! Are they still a tiny bit open? If so, I think he is ready for you to start to close them up.
Some thoughts on the little details:
First rep – he was nice and tight on the backside at 2 (I think you wanted the backside there, it looked like you cued it) and all through the rest! And the weaves looked GREAT.
Second rep – on the forward send to 2, it was hard to hear if there was a turn cue and also the forward send doesn’t cue enough collection for him there – you can try more ‘brake’ arm with the outside arm when he lands from 1, to see if that helps get more collection there.
I think his wraps looked good on jump 4. You had a moment of disconnection over 7 at :31 so he lost his train of thought and looked up at you, dropping the bar.
Great weaves again though!On the 3rd rep, you turned your lower body away even sooner at :38 and had a bit of a brake arm up – that turn on 2 was tighter. Yay! I think with the brake arm and also since you are hanging back on the weaves, you can stay near him between 1 and 2 to really accentuate the brake arm and decel, which can get the turn really perfect.
Great weaves again 🙂4th rep – at 1:00, you didn’t rotate as soon on the wrap and it was not as tight.
And nice push to the backside at 1:11 – you had great rotation and connection there and his line was lovely!>> (hopefully I sliced where you meant)
I was thinking of jump 4 (the one after the weaves) – you did some backside slices and they were lovely!
Great job here. Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
She is super fun! OMG!!! How big is she? You’re doing as great job with her: lots of great skills and speed, at only 2 years old!
Some throughs on the first course:
You can be a little more towards 3 when she lands from 1 to set that line a little better (so she turns before takeoff and not on landing) but she read it well and had GREAT weaves! She turned the wrong way on the weave exit at :28 which I am going to chalk up to adorable baby dog stuff (she might have thought Lynne was you at first but she did it again at :36. Since that is a hard skill you can break it down and be more ‘in the picture’ so she knows where to turn when she exits.
The teeter was good with you hanging back, but I think she can go even more to the end of it (:45). A target can be out there to help her for now. Plus you can be closer to the 7-8 jumps before her so you don’t have to decel – the added momentum will keep her driving ahead.When you reward the teeter, you can release and reset the line – you released her from right next to it and then she *smoked* you up the next line LOL! That is what produced a bit of chaos at :54. if you get caught behind there, you can use an outside arm to get her out and off the line but ideally you use your independent teeter skills to get way ahead 🙂
That line worked a lot better on the next rep when you used those skills more. And now you are going to laugh: you know how I obsess on connection connection connection? Well, looking at her speed… when you see her heading to the jump after the teeter, you don’t have time to connect. You have permission to disconnect and RUN, as long as you keep yelling your verbals. WHEEE! That will get you to the position you need several steps sooner. I think you stayed connected a heartbeat too long at 1:03 and that is why it was so hard to get up the line.
On the line after the a-frame: you got a good turn at #13 so the 14-15 line is another place to send, yell the things… and not watch as much. You were a bit careful there (maybe the running aframe is not totally solid yet) and she had questions on the jump after the frame at 1:17. Even if you get behind there, though, you can still decelerate and cue the wrap – it would end up being a FC there on 16 and then RC the tunnel entry, but that would work if you can’t get far enough ahead.
Although watching the next rep, I think maybe you were trying to slice that jump? Great job getting in for a BC 11- 12-13-14 but you might not need to do that – you can get the same line if you keep her on your right and send more to 13.
You got to a MUCH better position after the frame because you had a lot more send & hustle 🙂 Yay! To get the serp to the tunnel at 1:34, you would need to converge directly to the 16 jump so you could get your feet past the exit wing and pointing to the tunnel. You ran a parallel line for too long, so she read it as a more ‘normal’ serp.The RC to the threadle there also works – adding more decel on the RC will get a tighter turn and make the threadle easier… except it puts you waaaay behind Speedy Speederson 🙂 I like your serp option!
Since the DW was off camera, we will just assume it was perfect 🙂 And yes, be careful with the GO verbal, make sure you know where she is looking before you use it 🙂
I couldn’t really hear what verbal you were trying at 2:04 on the second time there? She is inexperienced, so she might need more of a physical cue – like a foot rotation towards her – to help get her eyes off the weaves there. Your decel on the very last rep totally helped. Nice independent weaves, though!
>> Course 2 – better – just the off course to the frame first
Maybe I am missing it, but I don’t see course 2 here?
>>And you go to see her chase – at least she’s not leaping & biting anymore
On the first course, what would you consider chase moments? There were a couple of spots where she had questions, but they were legit and not too chase-based.
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Nice work on the sequences here! You are really looking good with the connections – almost perfect on all the reps! And great job setting the line from the wing wraps, it gave her a great line up on these.
On the weave section:
Great job on the turn and connection on the 3-4 jump to wing (or where it ended up being in context) – lovely!>>She didn’t want to stay in the weaves when I left to early. Agree?>>
Yes 🙂 that first rep was great, she nailed it… but then she was on to you and realized you were not moving with her. I don’t think you were leaving too early, I just think she needs to see this in a training context. I suggest opening up the poles a bit (if you trained with 2x2s or channels) so the poles are easier and sending her through with you fading away laterally like here, then throwing the reinforcement out ahead (rather than turning back to you). You can do that just on 6 open weaves and she will soak it up like a sponge.
When something goes wrong, especially for her: resist temptation to mark the errors negatively and especially don’t make a whole conversation about it (“what happened??”) – she knows it was wrong LOL! And adding the marker/conversation just adds stress to something she already finds difficult. It is better to just call her back, reward a trick, then make it easier to be successful (in this case, by opening up the poles and adding a little more motion if she still needs that).
Only one little connection error here – after the poles on the push to the backside, connect more to her at :38 and not to the jump. You looked forward there so she ended up thinking you wanted the front side of the jump.
That little off course after the push at 1:36 was just because there was an extra jump on her line that would need to be handled – no worries, she was a good girl to pick it up.
Teeter – she did well on the teeter here but this was harder for her, I don’t think she fully loves the teeter yet. What is her criteria? On the first rep it was a moving release, on the 2nd rep it looked more like a 4on? To help her love it more and drive to the end as you move away, you can too put a target out depending on how you originally trained it. Then she will be looking for the target and you can toss the reward to the target as well.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
