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Good morning!
Brrrr it looks cold there LOL!!!>> need to do a lot of rewarding for taking lead on and off around agility equipment- he is fine else where.
Yes, agility equipment is very stimulating so you can isolate that skill, separately from this game. Near an obstacle, leash off – immediate cookie for staying with you – leash on. Having the cookie right there (and not on the chair) can make the reinforcement really fast and help him understand in that moment rather than having to go back to a reward. Eventually it can come into this game too.
>> need to play the game from the beginning with a toy not just jump in to the middle. Or perhaps need to raise the value of the food first will play with this. Also need to work on tugging on the lead>>
Yes, yes, and also – yes. LOL! Start this away from agility obstacles, because the obstacles raise his arousal level and make it all harder.
I think the food value looked high here? When he is more stimulated, will he take the food as happily as he seemed to here?And yes, tugging on the leash can be separated into 4 parts that won’t take long at all:
– separately from obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy, not attached to him
– separately from obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy while also attached to him
– in front of obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy, not attached to him
– in front of obstacles – tugging on the leash like it is a toy, while also attached to himIntroducing the tug leash as just a toy first really helps speed this along.
A couple of ideas based on your video:
You can split the behaviors more, rewarding more relaxed attention and not trying to the sit. For example, at :25 you could have gone back right away to the cookie when he walked away so nicely!When working this skill of the ‘remote reward’, don’t have any other rewards in your hands or pockets – that way we can be really specific about how and where to earn the rewards. If you hand him a treat from your hand, then suddenly the treat in your hand is in play like at :59 when you gave him a treat after the leash came off. That muddies the waters when we are trying to teach him to offer these behaviors without the treats in hands or pockets.
The sound was off on my videos here, the internet is being realy terrible for me today! So I could hear you but not that clearly – be sure to just use the reward marker when it is time to run back to the chair – no need for a yes or release , just the marker which is actually a release too
He seemed to have the hardest time when you asked for the sit then tried to take the leash off. He didn’t really understand that you wanted him to remain in the sit, so he would stand up then you would grab for him which he didn’t really love. So, you can split the behavior differently:
in this game with the reward on the chair: don’t ask for the sit. Instead just work the leash-off element and run back to the reward when he offers attention/engagement.Separately, work the ‘remain in your sit’ with cookies in your hand: that way you can immediately reward in the sit position. And you can split the behavior there too: reward him for remaining in the sit when you touch the leash (cookie!), when you touch the clip of the leash at his collar (cookie!) when you flick the clip but don’t actually unclip it (cookie!) and eventually when you unclip it from the collar (cookie!) Yes, lots of cookies but it is a hard behavior 🙂
Working in those little pieces will raise the rate of success and then it will be even easier.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
Ewwwww on the mushy yard! But I am glad it convinced you to train this skill haha!!
>> I’ll admit, since it’s hard for us and there’s so many things I want to train, it’s not been super high on my priority list to work through.
I have come to understand that sorting out this stuff (reinforcement procedures) is the gateway that makes everything else possible. So we will definitely focus on it and you got some good info here!
>>We started with leash play. Another thing that’s been harder for us. I feel like his tug skills are decent.
Yes, he did well – he *definitely* preferred the tug toy or leash to be moving away from him so he could engage with it by chasing it a bit. That is why he turned off the leash tug in the first part here (and turned off the tug toy when you asked him why he was being weird) – the tug presentation was towards him on those and he was much happier to play when the tugging opportunities were presented with the toy/leash moving away from him.
Also, helping him know exactly when the tug is in play as a reinforcement is important: at the beginning, when you cued the sit pretty but your leash hand was over his head, he was not sure if he should be looking at the leash or at the cue hand. So he went for the leash, and then flattened a little when that turned out to be incorrect. Try to cue the tricks with an empty hand for now when your hands are close to him, so there is no confusion about when he can grab the toy. You can also add a cue for him to grab the toy when it is nearby (I use “bite!” for Contraband LOL!!) and that way he knows when the toy is in play and when he should listen/look for other cues. He did well with the left/right spins with the leash in your hands, because the leash was less ‘in play’ (right near him) and he could see the cues more clearly.
He was happy to engage with his leash later on, mainly because it was moving away from as more of a toy and less towards him.
>> I do think it’s interesting that he was a bit disconnected when I asked for a wing wrap. He was unsure IMO.
Yes, because of the learning process of how to earn the reinforcement. Most of our young dogs are used to doing wing wraps with toys or treats right there… and when they are not right there, it is much harder to do the wing wrap. You can separate the wing wrap from the stay for now – send to the wing wrap and when he does it, cue him to urn back to where the reward is. It might be too much at this stage to do a stay and the wing wrap.
>>I switched to a clip lead to see if it was going over the head that bothered him. He played well for that leash. I brought the slip back out and he had a decent play session for that- not as good as the slip but acceptable for me.>>
I think the clip lead was able to move away from him better without all the fluffernutter happening around his head or neck from the other leash. So he might need a longer leash if it is a slip leash, so there is more ‘chasing’ of it to engage and less happening around his head/face/ears. When the slip leash was on him and moving away at 3:06 he was happier too so I definitely think he has a preference for it moving away.
Also, taking the leash off and *then* tugging on it seemed to be happier for him – could be that there is less pressure on his neck and then the leash becomes more toy like.
>>I do think this is important to get right because it is a legal reward in the ring.
Totally agree! Not only is it a legal reward in the ring in most venues, establishing the procedures allows for a much more relaxed dog in the ring. Sooooo many dogs stress out during trialing because they simply don’t know how/when/where to earn the reward.
Great job obsessing here 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Both girls did really well!
Maple did well on the transition game!
You don’t need a ‘yes’ or ‘ok’ cue on these, you can just give your ‘let’s go’ cue.
The Youtube sound was off for me (my internet is being terrible today!) but it sounded like you had the clear cue for the reward, so youdon’t need the ok or yes or anything else.You cam start to add in more distance away from the reward now, and mix in bigger lead outs from you. This is also a good game for Winn as it is great for getting focus/reducing stress on the start line. If I remember correctly, she sometimes has trouble with that.
On the skills sets:
>> I’m not sure if Winn had an off day or she really struggles with these skills but it was hard! There were many more misses then are on the video clip. Should I make something easier?? I didn’t know if I should move the wing up or move myself forward to help her.>>
They are just pretty darned hard 🙂 If she has 2 misses, then yes – make it easier by making your line of motion easier, moving forward a bit more (or opening up the poles).
Weaves – she definitely had a question about why the heck you were not moving while she was weaving LOL! You can add more verbal support by repeating your weave cue while she is weaving (I often say “po po po po po” for poles to verbally support the dogs when I am not moving). You repeated the table cue (table table table table) and she seemed happy with that – and the cookie dispenser helped too LOL!!
If she had a lot of trouble with the weaves then yes – add more of your motion as you kinda drift away laterally, so she can be correct more: then you will be able to fade out your motion and add harder positions too.
If she is having trouble with the table in trials, this will help (builds a lot of value) and you can also add visual distractions such as jumps nearby.Speaking of visual distractions… having the weaves near the tunnel at 1:33 was difficult! And that rep also gives us insight into what she understands at the moment. She seems to understand that ‘tunnel’ is a forward cue (meaning, go forward on the line you see) – when you exited the wing, the line of motion you set there was to the weaves.
That also means she doesn’t fully understand the tunnel verbal versus the weave verbal well enough to override body language.At 1:44 you set the line to the tunnel REALLY well and she nailed it.
So 2 ideas for you here: when there is a visual distraction, take the 1 extra step to set the line and watch her head: when she is looking the correct direction, you can give the forward cue (tunnel, in this case).
You can also isolate the tunnel verbal by having the tunnel be further from distractions and send her to it, with less emphasis on setting the line with your feet.Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHello and welcome! There are a couple of folks here who have been in all the CAMP classes…. I am totally going to get t-shirts made LOL!!!!
I am looking forward to seeing you and Pose and Differ! They are both SO FUN and doing so well! It was a blast seeing them work over the weekend 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>> then had a Tricky Trainer malfunction.>>
That is the blessing and curse of the remote feeders LOL!! But still totally worth it 🙂
Her weaves look great! Fast, independent, and focusing ahead and not looking at you. YES! It seemed like you were able to move away really nicely. So, you can progress this skill 2 different ways:
– 12 poles with the MM or TT out ahead
– 6 poles without the MM or TT (you can throw the reward)She seems to think the table is a bit of a silly obstacle LOL! Or actually, she might be wondering what the point of it is (I wonder about that too, Demi, LOL!) but it was great to work it here as you see it in every standard run! The MM out past it added challenge too, because she had to run hard towards it then stop – that was why on one of the reps she wanted to stop relatively close to the wing and not drive to the table. So to help her out, you can actually give her something more specific to do on the table: rather than just get on it, it can be ‘get on it and sit’ (or down) and that sit or down is what makes the MM beep. I know that AKC doesn’t require a position but I still train positions anyway, because the specific behavior gives the dogs something to drive to – that will get her loving it more and then driving to it more 🙂
>>l. I found myself moving away and sending to the wing, instead of going around the wing, and then moving away. The farther away I moved, the more verbals and connection she required. What do you think?>>
Yes, I can see why she would need more verbals/connection (both are fine to use)- unlike the teeter or weaves or table, there are 2 potential tunnel entries and also there might be many tunnels on course, so it is a little different – you will want to set the line to the tunnel entry you want and then cue it and then move away. That should answer any of her questions 🙂
On the wing, be sure to clarify your verbals – that will help set the line to the tunnel you want even if you move away earlier: On the 1st and 3rd reps, it sounds like you used your wrap cue (‘around’) but you used GO on the reps at :52 and 1:03 which should set an entirely different line. And in the case of the tunnel, that line becomes important so clarifying the wrap cues will help.
But using connection to set the line is great! And she did beautifully here.Great job! You can add the weave challenges. Let me know what you think of the table idea! And the weaves (or table or tunnel) can also go into the sequences 🙂 Have fun!
Tracy
Good morning!
She was a good girl here!
Question about the tugging – she doesn’t like leash tugging, but will she tug with a toy on the start line? UKI of course allows the toy to come into the ring on the ‘real’ runs, so you can totally work this with a toy. And in USDAA or AKC, you can use the toy as a start line reward for training runs, and in UKI you can use it for real runs. Tie it to the leash and then the leash will begin to take on the value of the reward target.
She did well here in this session! The youtube sound was “off” and didn’t match up to the action – I think it was my terrible home internet LOL! – but your reward marker sounded very distinct and that is great!
A couple of ideas to add to it:
You can make it even clearer by having the bowl on a chair or something to make the transition away from – she was convinced the cookie drop was for eating on that first rep LOL! And when you are working this skill, don’t have any other reinforcement on you – leave your training vest there by the reward bowl too, so she knows what is in play and how to work away from it. Having the cookie in the bowl was perfectly fine, she figured out very quickly that is was not just for snacking LOL!She did really nicely with the tricks and moving away from the cookie bowl – you can also work on letting her offer a stay position (sit, down, stand, any are fine) so she settles herself into a stay (that would be lovely, right?) and then add in the leash off then offering the stay, then leading out. You can work the bowl to be more directly behind her like it would be at a trial while she lines up at the jump. The more she offers the behavior, the less arousing it will be!
Let me know what you think! Nice work here!
TracyHello and welcome! It is always great to see you and the Corgs 🙂 I am glad to hear they are doing well and I am looking forward to more 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGoooood morning!!!
So glad to see you here!!!! This is your 3rd dog in CAMP, I believe… Patt, Lolli, and now Enzo. They are all so fun!!!
>>Delighted to be here with Enzo! We are going to get off to a slow start (visiting relatives, local club trial,…) but do not doubt we are excited to get going.
No worries, we have plenty of time 🙂
>>As long as I have your ear…our biggest issues are (alas) contacts. I am in the process of switching the teeter from 4-on to 2o2o.
Personally, I like the 2o2o because it is clearer for the dogs. And it is also very very fast. I am happy to help with the 2o2o training if you have questions – dogs usually do really well with the switch.
>>The other two are running but I am reserving the right to change my mind come the fall.
I feel this pain LOL!!!!! And many folks have both a running and a stop, and cue the behavior that will work best in any given situation.
>>Of less urgency, we have a specific threadle situation which is causing us issues. I have a strategy to address it but I’ll let you know if it fails.>>
Do tell! What is the specific situation?
Looking forward to seeing more of you and Enzo 🙂
TracyGood morning! LOTS of good work here with the boys!!!!
First up, the transition to trials with Wager:
Start lines are hard, so this is a good one for him 🙂 He did pretty well but I think there are a couple of things we can clean up which will help him understand even more.
Question about your verbal for going back to the reward: what is it, exactly? LOL!!! There were full sentences happening there 🙂 The cue included OK and let’s go and other words, so I think the reinforcement marker was getting lost. You can let it ‘pop’ more by only using it (it is also the release in that moment) and not adding any more chatter until after he is at the reward.He did have a question about when you took the leash off while he was sitting with you facing him, and when you turned away, he moved too. You can change up the routine a tiny bit to help smooth that out: take the leash off and then ask him to sit…. then turn away and lead out. Or let him offer the sit (without a cue) after the leash was off, then when he is settled you can run back to the reward right away, or lead out a bit and then cue him back to the reward. That will help him understand the order of festivities a bit more and will smooth it out.
And remember, you don’t have to start with the stay on these games – it can just be a trick. Getting the dogs into a thoughtful “we do things” mode on the start line really helps the stay behavior too.I like that he was tugging on the leash! You can engage with it more like a toy, getting him really tugging hard on it – it is a legal toy in the ring! He did have a question about the reward marker though: when the leash was the tug toy, he was not sure which reinforcement was in play when you cued him to go get it. Leash? Cookie? So for clarity, if the leash is the tug toy, you can also have it be the reinforcement. That helps him know what he is working for, and when/where. I love to train this skill on a leash because it is such a useful thing in competition 🙂
On the skills video:
Teeter – yes, he is doing a ncie job driving through the pivot of the board! He is trying to mark his end position off of your line of motion and your speed – when you were able to move parallel more and move faster, he was also straighter and faster. But when you were behind or decelerating, he culred off the side of the board (into a nice 2o2o on the side LOL! Good boy 🙂 On the day 2 video, he was definitely targeting off the side. it might have been partially Wager being there but also you were working on hanging back more. The deceleration is really hard for him (hard for ALL of our dogs on contact obstacles!) So I think putting the target out is a great idea – that should fix it and give him a focal point. I don’t think you need the Manners Minder, I believe the target will do the trick but we reserve the right to change that and add the MM if the target is not helpful enough. A target is easier to fade which is why I want to start there.
His weaves looks good: independent and fast! Yes, looking at you as he exits is fine because your position would dictate what comes next – and he appears to be looking straight while weaving and is getting faster and faster too 🙂 The only suggestion is that you can add some type of “get it” cue to the reward throw, so he knows where to look to get the reward. I use ‘get it’ to mean it is thrown out ahead (I had to break my habit of saying “yes” or “good boy” for everything LOL!) so that will help him drive out to the reward without questions.
And yes, if you can throw earlier… even better! I am not too concerned about it, though, based on his speed and forward focus while in the weaves. If he was looking at you while weaving, we would have to make bigger changes.
>>Turns out there was a sticky weed growing right where he needed to put his foot at pole 10. As soon as it was gone he did great! LOL!>>
OUCH! Poor guy! Glad you figured out why he was avoiding.
Great job here!!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
She did really well here! The tunnel was very easy for her (excellent squirrel throw, by the way LOL!!)
She was also accurate on the teeter and weaves – accurate is always Keiko’s starting point. She was thinking hard and her thought bubble appeared to be “Mom where are you going??” LOL!!! So now you can play with these games in the ‘think less’ mode – having the lotus ball planted out past the weaves was a smart move. That will certainly help her. You can do something similar on the teeter, with a target out in position (and a cookie on the target for the first couple of reps too). I also recommend fading your position/line of motion more gradually: if your ultimate line of motion is on a 90 degree angle away from the wing/obstacle, you can start with remaining in motion and moving on a 45 degree angle. That way there is some motion to support her line but also a good degree of challenge.
Standing still at the wing is also a good goal so you can do that with the toy/cookies out ahead to help her drive away from you.>> yesterday she experienced her first new seesaw in class, and she was not happy. It was rubberized, so felt different, was very noisy, and near a wall.
Yep, the teeter…each teeter is so very different! Because Keiko and her generation of pups did not get the same exposure to different teeters in new places during the training progression, I recommend not asking for a full teeter in new places any time soon. Instead, do just her favorite end game (like the bang game) on as many new teeters as possible. And with the bang game, do very few reps with insanely high value rewards. That way, on each new teeter she will look at it and say “YAY!!!!”. When she is happy with that, you can try to find other setups that simulate the training progression (like having the teeter between tables). Because Keiko is NOT afraid of the teeter in general, I think it will come together nicely after she has had more exposure to different teeters with just the bang game. My youngsters are in the same boat, they are just doing end position games on as many different teeters as possible for now, even though they all do full teeters at home.
And then their first trial experiences on the teeter will be ‘not for competition’ runs with toys and those end position games, just to be sure that they also love playing on different teeters in trials 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! Nice work on the games here!
TracyHi!
The leash presents an interesting dilemma! Is it that he doesn’t want it put on, like at the end of training (or even in general)? How does he do when you put it on for a regular walk or to go in the car or something? Does he avoid having it put on, even after tugging on it?If he avoids it entirely even in the regular life stuff, I’d leave a light line on him just to drag around the house when you’re home, and during this game (don’t use the leash, just let it drag behind him so it fades into the background) .
Separately, you can teach him to jump into your arms (start by having him jump into your lap while you are sitting). And also shape him to put his head through a big loop of fabric (not a leash). That trick will eventually become putting his head through the loop of a slip leash or harness 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! You are off to a great start!
Ruse was definitely a flyer on that teeter LOL!!! Is her criteria a hit-and-go? The MM was *definitely* stimulating her – but that is fine, actually, because it simulates what might happen on a course with, say, a straight tunnel out ahead. And with her speed, you might find yourself behind her (either by design or just because she gets far ahead :). A couple of ways to help her:
If she was trained with a target, you can put the target out there on the teeter. Or you can replace the MM with a target, then throw the reward to it. Also, you can help her by fading your position rather: rather than hanging back immediately, you can be maybe halfway back so she is only a little ahead. Then on each rep, get further and further back so she is more independent. Let me know if that makes sense or if I need more coffee haha!Hero did well on the weaves!! Good boy! Having the MM out by the jump encouraged him to exit really straight on the first reps, which is part of why he went really long after the weaves. And then when he took the jump that he saw on the first left turn out of the weaves, I think it was because that was on the line according to your position. Adding the tight turn cue was exactly the correct thing to do and then he nailed it 🙂 Yay! That is a HARD weave exit so the tight turn cue was perfect for it.
After the wrap on the jump during the sequence *after* the weaves: he was going wide there (you worked on it at the end). 2 thoughts for you on tightening that (Ruse might do the same thing): I think he was looking at the weaves there, they are really high value, so add in lots of wraps around a wing near the weaves where you reward the wrap but he doesn’t go to the weaves. he has done a LOT of wing-to-weaves lately, so I can see why he would consider it LOL!
The other idea is a handling thing: as you were exiting the turns, you had your dog side arm extended out parallel to your side (left arm) and so the connection was not that clear as to which side to be on. This would be a good place to have your left arm alllll the way back so you can be running away and making a lot of eye contact – you can even reward with the right arm, across your body, to really open up the connection. That will allow you to keep moving AND get the tight turn 🙂 You worked the turn at the end to reward it being tight – yay! When you do that, try not to stop near the wing – keep moving 🙂 That way you can get the tight turn even when you are flying.Great job on these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! I agree, it was nice to have a short break from video editing LOL!
Nice work here! He did really well – his only question was really on that first rep where he sat for a long time. I think that was because you actually (and inadvertently) gave him a sit cue. Note how you faced him and lifted the treat up to the center of your chest, then delivered it to him in a sit position. All of that is the international sign for ‘sit’ LOL and I don’t think you gave him a release? So he might have just been doing a sit stay, good boy 🙂 Cuing the sit in that moment was fine, just be sure to release him LOL!
The other reps looked really strong, so you can add this in during various training sessions: start lines specific stuff for sure, but also when sequencing you can have a reward planted near the end for a ‘pizza’ moment. I love the ‘pizza’ cue, it cracks me up! He seemed perfectly fine for you to ask for tricks, do the lead out, etc, so the game can go into a variety of different situations now. This can include any FEO/NFC runs you have coming up too! The pizza topping can be a toy not a cookie in those moments 🙂
>> I was wondering how you build in the “get leash back on” behavior? Does it become run ends, give “pizza” cue, go get on leash, leave ring for reinforcement? Vs. end run, get on leash, give pizza cue, >>
Good question! It depends on the venue and what the pizza is, exactly. For most of my dogs, the leash is the pizza: I give the cue and then they go get the leash, we tug on it and then I put it on them (inside the ring for AKC, outside the ring for the other venues). For my foodie dogs, I have a ‘leash up’ cue (something rather informal, like ‘c’mere’) and it is pizza time. I only need it for AKC because leashes don’t need to be on the dog for other venues (in USDAA and UKI, I just grab the leash out run out to the food :))
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
