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Good morning!
>> in a trial setting I’m almost 100% releasing him while I’m motion off the startline.>>
For planning (especially with the Open in a few weeks) I guess the main question is: what are his start lines like at a trial? If he is a bit iffy about holding his stay, you can keep training this but you can also look at leading out a lot less and doing a really independent backside push, then running through on the landing side for a ‘German’ or a serp exit. More on the super independent pushes coming next week 🙂 These threadle openings require a good enough stay to allow us to comfortably get into position and if he leaves early, you risk getting the front side.
A couple of ideas about his session here:
He is NOT a fan of the forced front cross LOL!!! So, based on how much better the threadles were, you can abandon training them and just work the threadle openings. If he is good at threadle openings, you will not need the FFC in the tool box (on the opening line or anywhere else on course).For the line up at jump 1: Set up more of a slice over 1 so he doesn’t go around it – there is a bit of pressure on these and he is reading that, plus he is really close to the jump so it is easier to go around it.
He was much better at :53 and 1:36, for example, when you had a lot more of a slice line. I like the slices on 1 here, because it takes out the front of 2 almost entirely and gives the dogs plenty of room to take 1 in extension.The Threadles are much better for him, in terms of commitment and jumping.
And at trials – you can hold your threadle position and you don’t have to move away until he commits to coming to the backside and you see him turning his head to look at the bar at 2 – that will get a great opening and you will still be able to get where you need to be on the next line.When you change your position – move straight back away from the line of the entry wing (towards the next jump) for now, rather than more across the #23 jump – when you moved across the #2 jump, it was hard to know til after he landed from 1 if you wanted the front or back of the jump there. So, positionally you are in the same spot (near the entry wing) but we just move you further back from it when changing position.
He was reading the threadles really well, so I think they will be really useful! Let me know what his stay is like at trials and we can plan 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
For REAL about the FEO/NFC thing! But at least AKC has those 2 opportunities. USDAA has plenty too. I don’t think there is a lot of UKI in your area? But the food reward boxes in UKI are great, plus in UKI you are allowed to take a toy to the line in ALL runs, not just NFC runs (I love this rule :))
I agree that the layering games went really well for you! I think layering is harder for smaller dogs (they need to take more strides and have more time to change their minds LOL!) but he did a super job!
First video – he definitely likes driving to the tunnel! One small suggestion: you can lead out less on tunnel sends so you don’t have to stop moving (especially on mats, where we handlers are a bit faster than the dogs). And you can name the line sooner – when he lands from the first jump, you can start your Go Tunnel cues so he accelerates ahead and you can peel away
Good work on the right verbals/turns. When you added the first jump to it at :49 and 1:01 the timing of the verbal was really strong! I don’t think you need that step to takeoff – it might actually show a little extra motion to 2 which widens the line and opens up the tunnel a bit. At 1:16 you were setting up for the send which made the verbal late – so you can just take out the physical send cue in favor of saying the verbal and leaving 🙂 There is an additional brake arm cue we can add if needed that can help move away sooner, but he might not need it 🙂
The sequence looked good! You added the go tunnel earlier here – you can say it a few times so he feels confident driving ahead from you. I think that repeating the verbal allows the dog to process it more when working independently, especially as we move away and the physical cue doesn’t support it as much.
He did a great job with the Go after the tunnel on the 2nd video! It is a difficult Go because of the layer and there is a rear cross on the tunnel. Good boy! You can throw the toy as soon as he looks at the jump after the tunnel, he was asking a little bit of a question by slowing down. And you can also add parallel line motion to help support the layering, that is useful there too to help get him on the line.
The timing of your right verbal on the very last rep was perfect! And you didn’t need much of a send or any real digging into the takeoff spot – and he nailed it. Super!!! So you can play with leaving earlier. The goal on all of these is to keep you in motion so yo can easily get to whatever the next spot is on course.Great job on these!!!!
TracyGood morning!
The first reps went really well! Great job helping him with position and standing still, and gradually moving further back. Great job with the toy throws – he was beginning to lift his head to look for them, which is good because it means he is predicting the placement based on the cue, which strengthens his understanding.
When you added distance, stand still for longer to let him still look for the bar without handling help. And also, to assist the independence without any additional handling, you can try tossing the toy with the threadle arm – that way you won’t need to switch arms to throw, as that switching arms to throw could read as handling help to him, and he might wait for that. So it might feel awkward to throw with the threadle hand but can be effective! The other option is to throw with the other hand but wait longer – wait til he has turned to the jump and approached it.He is doing well with adding distance, but as you saw – needs a few more sessions before you can move away with a lot of speed. As you add distance and add moving away, use slower motion (walking) so he can continue to process the cue. it is pretty complex because we are asking the dogs to do something that is very different than our position and motion 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyGood morning!
I am so sorry to hear about Breeze but so glad that he seems to be improving quickly! I was following your facebook page for updates. Sending healing prayers for the little guy!!!!We can break all of these down as needed into training skills for Miss Promise. I have always found that getting the pups out for training helps take my mind away from anything else, in a good way. Hopefully that is the case here too! And of course Potter is welcome to play too.
Promise did a great job stepping into the big dog shoes with this game!
On your tunnel sends – try a lower arm and more connection as you move away – think of it as bowling her unto the tunnel rather than pointing up high. A high arm caused a little question on the very first rep. Your arm was lower at :19 and :52 and she had no questions
For the tunnel verbal. You can use your GoTunnel verbals to name the whole line to cue the tunnel sooner – as soon as she lands from 1, you can start go go go tunnel and see how she does. You said over then tunnel as she landed from 2 – I don’t think she needs that 2nd over for the Go line.For the right turns – she did a GREAT job with that juicy tunnel out ahead! She was turning really well. Try to start the right cues as soon as you have seen her land from jump 1.
At :24, you told her over then the right cue, so the right cue ended up being late and she was a little wide. But compare it to the last rep at 1:08, when you gave her the right cue when she was maybe halfway between 1 and 2 and she was amazing! Tight and fast. Love it!Because she is young, her commitment is not yet fully developed so she might not yet commit on perfectly timed cues – but that is something that will continue to develop. So far she looks great!!! You can add in more layering but to help her out, use less of your motion by walking through it until she understands it.
Great job!
TracyHi! Hope it is not raining too much! We have a lot of wind here but hopefully the rain is done.
Yes, getting the verbals out early and repeating them can be very helpful for the dogs – it gives them a bigger window to process the verbals rather than just once. So if it is something complex, I will repeat the verbal (early and often). Simpler things don’t need as much, usually one cue will be fine 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Congrats on your new title – I am so glad you found a place to use the verbal and it worked out so nicely!!!!!
On the wraps at the beginning where she was turning the wrong way, I think she was reading your lower body, which was slightly rotated and your opposite leg was back – so it looked a bit like a lap turn, despite the verbal cue. When you faced forward and stepped to the side of the cone you wanted with the dog side leg, she got it on the 3rd rep and beyond.
Then you were fading yourself out so the physical cue was not as important. And she did a great job and was super cute, being a bunny for her ball LOL!
When you balanced into the wing-tunnel-wing/jump sequence, she did really well – the GO lines were easy because you had primed the pump there plus it is fun – with the ball as reward, she is definitely wanted to run long 🙂
She missed the first right but was in full on “Go” mode – you can switch to the turn cue earlier in the session and also you can show a tiny bit of handling – timing of the verbal was spot on, so you can turn your shoulders and feet a bit too to help her get it on the first rep. I think her error was more about just running to where the last few rewards were and not necessarily processing the verbals. But verbal plus a little handling will help!She did a great job not running over the old terrier LOL!! So cute!
She is ready for you to build this into the bigger sequences. AAC has the hardest gambles in the world, so I think this can build into some really cool gamble stuff too!
Great job 🙂 Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
I am so glad to hear Sole is doing well! Whew! I bet she is happy too 🙂
>> My inclination was to move further out from the jump – but I can totally see how that could be confusing for the dogs. I was playing around with more motion with the girls because they have a nice start line at home – but they will NOT at the Open, so wanted to get a sense of how I need to handle it there and definitely seems like I will want to be closer to the jump.>>
That is all good planning! Moving into the threadle nice and close. The other option is a short lead out that is laterally away from the entry wing and pushing to a backside “German” turn (or serp). I like that move with my Voodoo because it gets my butt moving and also was great as I taught him the threadle opening.
Nikko – jump is too close to the tunnel especially when it was parallel to it , she had a hard time fitting into the gap
I think her miss (when she came to the front on a push cue) and Sole’s miss (when she took the tunnel on a backside cue) had more to do with a “how do I fit in there??” moment and not a ‘not listening’ moment LOL! My guess is that if you give them one more yard between the tunnel and the jump, it won’t be a problem at all. And in a trial, they would ave a lot more room between the 2 obstacles.Using handling is fine as long as they also understand to not just take the tunnel because it is there (and they listen to the verbals. The other thing to do is make sure you are behind them with the verbal and handling, starting closer to the wing and not sending to it and being ahead. Can they still read the handling and process the verbal with you behind?
Doing this with weaves was great because yes, I agree that this is a VERY trendy challenge right now (more on that coming tomorrow). I didn’t post with weaves because the equipment needed for the class didn’t include them but you are definitely welcome to add them in!
The dogs did really well!
Presto had a little trouble with the jump when it was parallel to the weaves – easy time when it was perpendicular and when you were handling too. If you were moving with the perpendicular jump, he had trouble ‘finding’ the backside wing so I would leave it slightly angled so he can see the wing better. Part of his question he to do with you blocking the wing on the first rep (so he took the tunnel) then being too far from it on the 2nd rep (so he took the front). He did well when you were stationary and did a little send.Nikko had a similar question when the jump was parallel and made the same errors on the push cue, and she got it when you were stationary.
Sole did not have any trouble, but your handling was also crystal clear on those 🙂
One thing you can do with this setup with the weaves is to replace the wing with a chair (for you to relax in) and work this on full on verbal only, not body cues. Don’t use a backside jump, just have it as a front side and use a generalized jump cue and a weave cue. That will help ‘absolve’ you of having to have great handling, and take you out of the picture – we often see incredibly independent weave entries so the more they can find the weaves on verbals, the better. So I highly recommend a chair, a nice warm beverage, and rewards you can throw LOL!
Great job here!!!!! Did you also enter Presto at the Open, at least in Speedstakes and stuff? Have fun with the layering stuff! I saw lots of uses for it on the Cynosport maps!
Tracy
Hi again!
Good job with the full sequence right at the beginning! He is still having some questions about committing to the bar at 2, so a couple of ideas for you:
Definitely keep reinforcing on landing side of 2, that will help build the behavior. I think he is still trying to rely on your motion towards the bar, and we need to convince him to do it on his own LOL! So a couple of ideas: start a lot closer so he doesn’t rocket past 2 and don’t move fast yet – you can even stand still because we want him to look for the bar independently of you turning towards it.
So basically you can stand still in position, do the verbal and arm… and don’t move until he looks at the bar – then throw the reward. Start close and then I think it will be easy to move you further back.
I do this standing still at 8:45ish of the demo video, to help remind the dog to commit to the bar at 2 🙂 The commitment to the jump is implied by the position and verbal, so ideally you won’t have to step towards it at all 🙂
When he understands it more fully, you can ‘release’ the threadle cue as soon as his head turns to the bar and just go to your next spot without having to step to the jump.That should be the last piece of the puzzle for him! He is coming to the backside perfectly, your positions are strong, and he is ignoring the tunnel discrimination when you are asking for the threadles. YAY!!
Great job on these1 Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! This is going well!
On the first rep – great threadle and then he correctly followed you body line to the far end of the tunnel. Good boy!
Your body line on the 2nd rep was much clearer and he was perfect 🙂
Nice position on the threadles too! This is going to be a useful skill for him.
When working the commitment to the bar at 2, you can move more slowly so he looks for it himself, then toss the reward – no need for the tunnel cue if you are going to reward.
:33 – great example of where you can use a tossed reward to solidify the commitment to 2. The tunnel is the easy part, so no need to cue it til after commitment to 2 is really strong. He had a miss at :33 but then got much better when the rewards starting coming at the landing side. And the full sequence looked great!
More ideas below about threadle openings 🙂Tracy
Good morning!
We are supposed to get a little rain here and there this week (I am going to get outside today for filming after sunrise but before we get some rain) but nothing like what the rest of the country is getting. Ewwwww!!!!!
Keiko did really well with the layering here! The first couple of reps were easy peasy for her. Nice!
As you added the green jump before, we can look more at timing:
At :18, you gave her the over cue and then the tunnel cue before she took off for jump 2 – perfect! You probably don’t even need the over cue for the white jump before the tunnel, you can probably just get a Go Tunnel Go Tunnel going. You can also use it at 1:08, where she is landing from the green jump: you can name the entire line by cuing Go Tunnel. – otherwise she is waiting a bit over that white jump to get the info: is it a turn or the tunnel?
At :25, you gave the over for that #2 jump but then didn’t say if it was the jump or tunnel until she was in the air – so try to cue it before she takes off. You used come here, I think, but you can also use her name or a right verbal. The same thing happened at :52 and 1:02 – you are cuing it as she was over the white jump, so she was a little wide and was considering the tunnel because the cues had not happened yet.
At :31, adding the wing – your timing was good for the tunnel cues… but you were disconnected and pointing forward so she went into handler focus and came off the line towards you. Much better on the rep right after that!!! Those 2 reps illustrate the difference in arm use. On the rep where she did not take the jump or tunnel, your arm was ahead of you and her, causing you to look ahead which turns your shoulders and changes the info. On the reps after that where she got it, you were mainly looking at her and your arm was mainly “bowling” her and not pointing ahead. A subtle but important difference!
She did a great job staying on the line when you flipped things and started with the tunnel! You can add the GO cue before she enters the tunnel.
The full sequence looked great! I think the only spot to improve here is giving her earlier info about the line from the green jump to the white jump – if, when landing from the green jump, you started shouting GO TUNNEL GO TUNNEL, then she can really accelerate to the tunnel (taking the jump because it is on her line) and that also allows you to leave even sooner for your next position. And when you want the turn, I think using your over cue puts her more into handler focus so she is ready to turn. Using Go Tunnel versus Over can help her differentiate, sooner. If it is an over cue for both lines, then she has to wait a bit and we want her to just go go go 🙂Nice work here! Let me know if the ideas make sense!
TracyGood morning! This video is the best Monday morning wake up! He looks GREAT!!! He was patient on the start line, perfect in his response to cues, let you move laterally away from the weaves, and nailed the big ending line. Your handling choices/execution and connection were lovely!!!!! It is so cool to see him running like a pro. The future is VERY exciting!!!!!!!!
>> still getting comfortable between the gate entrance and setup but once he’s set he’s all business!
You will find the rhythm outside the ring. Whatever is happening outside doesn’t seem to be creating any issues inside the ring. He might just need more time to get used to the distractions of being around all those people and dogs.
>> guy. I think he was remembering that for the last several sessions it had been all about the individual verbals at the jump….didn’t really do any tunnels during that time…and he just couldn’t believe it was OK to do the tunnel again 🙂
Ha! That is too funny. I am sure he will fully recover the tunnel value LOL!!
>>Had to smile when I saw the course map for the Biathlon Standard course, it was all about a straight tunnel under a contact. And it ate teams alive!
For real!!!! Basically the Cynosport courses were a walking advertisement for this course – some of the courses included challenges being posted tomorrow LOL!! They didn’t all look good on paper, but the judges did a great job setting them in general so I liked most of them. And it was really really important that USDAA had good courses this year, because that will be helpful in getting more people to come play 🙂
Great job on your JWW run!!!
TracyIt is a GREAT word! Love it! I am a Southerner now, so I need to update my vocabulary. This reformed New Yorker is used to just putting the f-bomb in every sentence LOL! “Boondoggle” is a great addition to my language LOL!
Good morning! Thanks for the update; I am glad you are liking the sequences 🙂
>> 1) Backside trends course Openings: I felt better using threadle handling rather than a forced front as the threadle arm seemed to give my boys better info.
That is good! Threadle handling in that situation turns out to be faster for most dogs and also easier for most handlers 🙂
>>Mookie in practice did not take any wrong course tunnels 🙂
GOod boy! My guess is that he is more excited at trials so makes decisions earlier… so your cues need to be early and often LOL!
>>>It was Buddy who did 🙂 I have now created a dog who likes tunnels and learned that I now have to give Buddy the same hard cues and timing to prevent wrong course tunnels as I do with Mookie. Go figure.
That is a good thing, though! Tunnels are super fun and I think developing tunnel love is part of the key to getting these dogs super confident in the ring. I am doing the same thing with Elektra – she is just now saying “THIS IS SO FUN!”. And it is easy enough to handle them to NOT take the tunnel, so for now, let him rip and don’t tell him he is wrong if he ends up in a tunnel you didn’t want 🙂
>>2) Layering skills: I have always layered with Mookie due his speed and we are fine with this. I found that I can also now layer with Buddy 🙂
Perfect! You are ahead of the curve here. Layering has an element of those discriminations which will help Mookie understand when you want the tunnel and when you don’t.
>>I have used gentle break arms for both dogs for pinwheels to show decele and both dogs read the cue well.
Great! That type of turn is super popular and I have been using those arms too.
>>>Buddy’s attitude with practice has really stepped up a notch for him.
YES! That is exciting.
>>>However, Buddy becomes worried about judges following him when at a trial so I am taking Bobbie’s course for Buddy as well. It is working out nicely 🙂
Great! And you can use the FEO options at trials to reward him when judges are near. If he is in a group class, you can ask a classmate to be nearby while he gets tons of cookies and toys.
>>>3) Threadle Trend: Both dogs did well with the threadle skills but we had trouble with the Bypass.
I needed a target to be successful through the gap.>>Bypasses are a bit weird, right? The dogs are used to taking obstacles, not running past them 🙂 You can also teach it by spreading the outer jumps apart a lot, so they are not remotely on the line.
>>I will have to teach a bypass verbal cue. What do you use ??? I did use exit arms which worked 50% of the time.
I just use the dog’s name and smack my thigh as I run LOL! It is not a super high priority so I don’t have a specific verbal at the moment (the thigh smack acts as the verbal).
>>Ace wanted to play agility today and did great with this exercise including the BYpass without a problem. He is 11 and still loves his agility. Love that Dal of mine>>
Awww good boy Ace!!! I am glad he got to play! Spotty boys are the BEST!!!!
Thanks for the update! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
How is Sole this morning? I stalked your FB page but didn’t see anything new. Fingers crossed that she feels 100% today.On the video: lots of great work and great feedback from the dogs!!!! Your session helped me clarify some uses for these cues.
First up, Presto! Good boy 🙂
Bearing in mind that we have all recently put a TON of value on “take the front side of all the things, please” with the baby dogs, he did do really well!
On the forced fronts, a couple of ideas:
– keep your feet completely still. If you are moving your feet or moving backwards, he will see the motion and take the wrong side of 2. Backwards motion is same as forward motion haha (I learned than from the one and only Linda Mecklenburg lol!) You totally had happy feet, and the further away you got from the backside wing, the more you moved backwards. It is really hard to stand still but completely worth it 🙂 I feel that pain of happy feet – patience is not my favorite thing – so I lean a bit on these, to put the weight into my feet, so I can’t tap dance while waiting for the dog to come up the line. At :38, you were moving backwards and got the front of the jump – the verbal is too new to override the backwards motion. Eventually, yes – but not now 🙂
– also, he is still learning the default “take the jump” part of the in in – so move slowly, keep the bar low (so the jumping effort is wicked easy, and toss the reward to the landing side of 2 like you were doing. I think you were moving too quickly out of the FFC for a baby dog so he had some misses there.
– stay tucked into the wing, closer to where the wing meets the bar, so all he really sees if your arm and a bit of your eyes. You were migrating a bit laterally out from behind the wing, which makes it harder for the dogs to read the jump you want and puts you out of position.When threadling, turn your feet more to the landing spot, like you did at 1:33, that was really nice!
Watching this session (and also the Nikko and Sole sessions) leads me to some conclusions about where we can use the different positions to cue these turns and where we should not – for your dogs and mine too 🙂 More below:
For Nikko – standing still on the lead out will help her when you are way up the line – you are running forward (happy feet) and that is causing her to have to differentiate the verbal from the motion – motion is opposite the verbal and causing you to step back to the jump to commit her, like at 1:07.
I think moving into it with her with you closer to the #2 jump works fine for her, she did really well, plus it is using the same position we would use at trials. When you were further up the course, though, she was not ready for all of that motion so that is good to know: you can change your position to be waaaay upstream, but don’t move into it. Be completely stationary (no motion, no happy feet LOL!) so she knows which jump you want. And if she does not have a long stay at trials, move into it but move closer to jump 2.
With both the FFcs and the threadles, tuck into the wings with the girls – being too far away laterally makes it harder to read the cue and puts you a little out of position for the next line.
Sole also had really good feedback on this, about position and motion!
The change in position/handler location works well on the lead out because your stationary position indicates which jump is the threadle jump. When you were moving into it like at 2:18 with the FFC and the threadle at 2:24 and throwback at 2:44 with Sole, the motion confused her as to which jump you wanted and I can see her argument – you were positionally nearer to 3 on those and the threadle verbal was going the whole time, so it was hard to read – it could have been a cue for jump 3.So that is great info (thanks, Team Toller!) – if you are finding this in the middle of a course, use the positional cues of being closer to the entry wing of 2 to move to. And if this is the opening? Use your big lead out to get way up the line but then stand still so she knows which jump you want.
Let me know if that makes sense! Great job here!!
Tracy
