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Hi! Happy Friday!
He did really well on the tunnel sends here! On the ‘normal’ sends, you can add movement now – everything is the same except when you let him go, you will also walk forward. That will either be really easy and you’ll see no change in his behavior, at which point you can add in more speed! Or, it will prove to be incredibly distracting and he will just look at you… at which point you can walk v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. I *think* the motion will not be distracting but ya never know 🙂The accidental threadle was hilarious! LOL!! Good boy 🙂
>>A couple of reps later, I tried for an intentional threadle. By this point, I realize in hindsight that I’d let the session go too long, and he was losing his concentration.>>
Now, normally with puppies I am all like “yeah, session was too long!!” but in this case I don’t think that was it. When you asked for the threadle at 1:02, you were all the way at the other end of the tunnel. That starts the challenge at the hardest point, so he had to bypass the obvious entry. He tried but didn’t really know what you wanted. When you start the threadle, start right next to the tunnel entry making it super obvious, then as his success rate goes up, you can start working back to the harder sends.
And yes, definitely start those on the next session, hopefully you don’t have too much snow. Great job!
TracyHi! She was a really good girl here, this is a hard game! She was actively trying to engage her back feet, which is super. It looks like she had little eyeballs on her feet, looking for the teeter LOL! The barking was probably frustration due to the difficulty of the game. I think she did best when you let her start with all 4 feet on, then lured her off then let her back up from there. She didn’t need to do that on the last rep, but you can let her start the session that way to get her rolling with it. You can also get a little lower (crouch or bend) to help her keep her head down, which will allow her to move her hind end more easily.
Great job!!
TracyGood morning! Your serps are looking good and I am jealous of the building!!!
1 jump reps – great job with all of the stay reinforcement, that is critical when we add in moving starts 🙂 She did well!! The serps looked great, it looks like she was making the turn before taking off. Your position was a little too far from the jump, be close enough to touch it so that she is landing already turned and not jumping quite as far out towards you. It is a subtle thing but will help to get the turns even tighter.
On the 2 and 3 jump reps, there was a little too much close up on Yowza on the camera so it was hard to always see what was happening in relation to handling 🙂
Some of the 2 jumps some were more like 180s because you were not ahead in serp position , but when jump 1 was the serp jump I think she did well! I couldn’t really see what you upper body position was doing, so I will assume perfection LOL!
She dropped a bar at approx 1:30 and I couldn’t really see why (we could hear it more than see it). But she might be slipping on the turf? At 1:39 we had a nice wide view as you sent her to jump 1 – she slipped on takeoff for the first jump on the send. I didn’t see a problem with the handling and I didn’t see a problem with her decision (she was collecting nicely) it just look like she slipped as you moved away with speed. The bar didn’t fall but it did rattle. She didn’t slip in that send spot on the other reps and the bar was fine.
She did well on the 3 jump reps too! When she ran by the jump at 1:44, it was a connection issue – the connection was a little too soft for a young dog, so she didn’t really know to push away to get the last jump. So, as she lands from the middle (serp) jump, look back and make a VERY hard connection to her eyes, and maintain that until you see her turn away to the next jump. That hard connection will point your shoulders/chest to the line to the takeoff of the last jump 🙂
It was clearer at 1:52 but you were not as far ahead there, and using your arm a bit more. It was good to be really far ahead at 1:44 🙂 so I think the bigger connection will fix that.
You can see it on the other side too – at 1:56 you were looking forward on the way to the last jump so it took her an extra stride to turn back to it. I think that you were positionally in a good spot (near the jump) and that helped, but we do want to keep you as far ahead of this speed demon as possible LOL!!!
Great job here!!
TracyHi! I am beginning to see the weight shift happening! So the lower closer placement is working – she was much more weight shifted on the first several reps. She lost it a little at about :24, but then regained it towards the end. Consistent placement of reinforcement will continue to solidify that. I think the 2-3 inch location was probably the best one to get he 2o2o with the weight shift. To keep her from looking at you and so you don’t have to stop with her or near the board… you can drop the reward on the target as you go past. That way you can keep moving or be behind her, so she drives into target position and only looks at her target. I call that “cookies from heaven” when I drop them from above LOL!!! And you learn to have pretty good aim… plus she learns to hold position even if the cookie bounces away, so it ends up being a great little proofing game too!
Nice work! Fingers crossed for more snow-less days!
TracyHi!
I think he is doing well on the teeter game!! He has a little too much room to step into 2o2o, so sit closer to it so he does not have room to comfortably step off it – which will increase the rate of success of getting right onto the foot target at the end in 4on.
When he is on it, he was a little roached (he back feet were under him rather than balanced behind him, so I think you can fix that by having him get on further back, so he is getting onto the board from the top of the yellow and moving forward. That is also likely to sort itself out when the board is moving more and when you are off to the side, which can be added in future sessions.On the serp video, I see what you are saying about the running off. There is something about the available reinforcement through the task-at-hand versus the available reinforcement for running the fence like that (a self-reinforcing behavior, linked to some herding instinct as well, probably). So a couple of thoughts/ideas for you:
are there situations where he runs the fence like that, on his own? Some dogs do that and are running the fence with neighbor dogs, or cars, or chasing birds… does he ever do it on his own or only during training? Often there is something in life that is happening outside of training that bubbles over into training. Also, does he spend a lot of time in that area chasing frisbees or balls? That is a similar behavior to the fence running.I think we can build up a better reinforcement hierarchy and understanding to not leave when he is aroused or faced with less-valuable reinforcement or stressed/frustrated. He didn’t appear to be frustrated here – was this happening at the very beginning or had he been failing?
I would separate the skills and have him on a leash outside to do this (yes, I have worked my own dogs on leash in my own yard, it really helps – it feels weird, but it helps stop undesired behaviors). By having him on leash, you are effectively stopping him from hacking into his own dopamine (or endorphins or whatever he is getting with the fence runs_ while you sort out how to get engagement in the yard. A couple of ways to do it would include:
Doing simple engagement tricks for the lower value tug and treats, and then in front of a jump
Doing stays (no jump) for the higher value toy, only as far as the end of the leash
Shaping simple things (like getting in a box) outdoors with the high value toy (and with the food)
So basically teaching him to engage outdoors when he is stimulated, and add it in around the jump, without allowing the option of leaving – that gives you a fighting chance to build reinforcement value for desired behaviors, and he will then be more likely to choose those behaviors when he has the option to leave and run.Motion override:
>> Of course it went beautifully but then I realized I didn’t hit record>>
I hate when that happens!
Watching the session – it is going well! Perhaps he didn’t want to release because he was just going to be asked to sit again? You can use a cookie toss to get a head start, rather than a sit, so he is moving and not stationary to start it.
In the house, you can add in a toy and get a little more arousal going. Or use food but start moving faster.
And I think this is a great game for outdoors on leash with the higher value toy! It can help build up the value of offering control positions like a sit (or a down would be acceptable outdoors too) with the exciting toy and the great outdoors 🙂Nice work here! Let me know what you think and we will continue to sort things out!
TracyHi! The complete circle wrap is also known as a backside wrap (or some folks call it a reverse wrap). You can see it here:
https://youtu.be/OVdCLvhacRE?t=12
on jump 2.
How is Merlin feeling?Tracy
Hi!!
Game 1:
>> It is pretty subtle but you can see it. From 1:00 to 1:30 I worked very hard to not give away any hints. And I think he can do it without hints, he just wants some, if he can get them. Smart kiddo!>>Yes, I totally see it – I was jotting down a note to use less helpful body language for the next session, and then you stripped it out and he was all like “WAIT WHAT?” haha! I can see the slightest hesitation when he is on the backside of the wing, as if he is suspended in mid-stride to wait for more info. Well, getting him to do it without the extra help was great! And interestingly, because he had to think it through without help, his wrap turn immediately got tighter. It was really fun to watch.
You were stationary in a slightly rotated position, so that is the starting point for the next session. If that goes well, the session after that would be stationary but facing the tunnel. Then, when you add back motion, add back REALLY fast motion on the FC or a spin on the wing with you rushing away (because sometimes dogs don’t listen to the verbals or discern the motion when there is a lot of speed). And you can do opposite handling: without a lot of speed, say your wrap cue but turn and face the tunnel. So your body says tunnel but your mouth says wrap (and also do the opposite of turning away but saying tunnel). That might take several sessions to work up to but is totally worthwhile 🙂
>>Bottom line, this discrimination can use a bit more work but it is really coming along.>>Yes! But also when that jump wing is a ‘normal’ distance away from the tunnel, the nice tight turn will be super easy for him.
Game 2: Serp
This was hard! The serp has a little more value so he was offering that more when there was more motion.>>Here is what I’m thinking: If I cue “tunnel, tunnel” then I want him to drive to the tunnel immediately without waiting for any further information. If I release him with his name, then he needs more information (handler motion) >>
Yes, I agree with this. And the name call always means “turn towards me” which would effectively take the tunnel out of the picture (in theory 😁) in this set up. And ‘tunnel’ is a forward cue, meaning don’t look at me and just drive to the tunnel.
>>HOWEVER, if I am not in the correct serp position, then he is correct that he doesn’t know what to do. Therefore, I think most of this session was wasted because I wasn’t where I should be. When I was (:40, 1:05) then he came in correctly.
What do you think?>>>Hmmm that is trickier. I think the name call in this situation is always front side of the jump, never threadle (I never threadle my dogs on just a name call) So when you were not far enough across the jump, he was correct to take the front side as if it was a 180 but not when he threadled. To help clarify for him, you can stay closer to the jump and not move away when you serp it. You were tending to stay in closer to the jump on the tunnel sends, but pull away on the serps. And if you are not in serp position and are maybe only passing the first wing, he should still take the front side (otherwise you will be prisoner to having to be in great position all the time, which is really hard with a fast dog). One thing to support him with is upper body position: your dog-side shoulder can be more ‘closed’ forward to the tunnel when you want the tunnel, versus dropped back when you want the serp (but your running line is the same). To help him understand that it is not the threadle, you can also be in less-than-perfect position and just drop your shoulder back slightly less for the serpentines so he takes the front of the jump. Now if you are behind on a serpentine and need him to serp and not do the 180 and potentially run in front of you, I bet you can consider an outside arm to push him back out. Let me know if that makes sense.
Game 3 – discriminations – this looked great!!!!! His only error was when you were backing him up a little then let him go and he was not quite prepared for that moment – moving him backwards a tiny bit as part of lining him up was distracting. That is good to know! You can add in getting him a little distracted by moving him back then 🙂 You can add in not waiting to see where he is looking before the release 🙂 and some tugging beforehand so he is more stimulated (arousal can cloud processing, so we can layer in arousal now).
I think you should also add in starting him at your side and work both elements (and on both sides) so that will serve as the gateway to adding motion.
And I think the ‘uh’ of tunnel and the ‘ay’ in crate can be verbally distinct enough that it will be fine in the heat of the moment on course, he should be able to differentiate.Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! This was super! It is a really hard game and I think he did well! Starting him from the side position totally helped and then you were able to progress quickly to less help and adding more distance. Perfect! And he gets a double gold star for that very end, when he was facing the tunnel but went to the crate on your verbal. Two things to think about:
a bigger crate. LOL!! I think he was definitely heading the correct way but then couldn’t quite squeeze down into the crate at speed and turn to come out for the reward.
Also, I think his crate cue is ‘go to jail’ which is hilarious and amazing! But it is possible he was confusing the ‘go’ with ‘go tunnel’ so for purposes of this game, maybe just say ‘jail’ and see how it goes?
Great job here!!!
TracyHello!
Oh, Spree!….. LOL! I guess she figures she knows the game and should reap the rewards LOL!
I think this session overall went really well! Your clicks seemed to be slightly better timed than your MM hits, in terms of nailing the back feet moment. The MM were a little earlier, more of the front feet moment, so try to delay the MM ever so slightly to get that 2nd back foot.
Make sure you MM finger is not too excited LOL!>>He doesn’t know what that means yet but I’m guessing he will figure it out quickly.>>
Agree! I think he had a lot of really good hits here and the understanding will come very quickly.
When you are getting him started, try not to say “go” (because it means something else LOL!), so you can use a noise or interim cue like ‘hit it’ for now.
When you added the angle, he did really well going away from you. He was missing it on the way back a bit but you did really good dog training of recalling him over it and that seemed to help. You can also move your position over so it is more on his line on the way back, for now.
Those angles are known as “the banana line” lol and that is good! You can add a little of your motion on that set up – you go straight past it and he does the banana line, if that makes sense 🙂
You can also add challenge by using a toy when he gets back to you! Challenge comes in the form of more excitement 🙂
Great job! He is doing well!!!
TracyHa! Yes, tell the snow to behave itself. We are getting snow here tomorrow and I am NOT IMPRESSED hahaha 🙂
Thanks! It sucks but I am keeping it in perspective that it has been narrowed down to one of two things, both of which can be fixed. I just feel badly for this poor pup who has had this going on for a year.
Perfect! I highly recommend you use the same verbals for all the dogs, or you will drive yourself nuts LOL!! Although we might add verbals for Ruby that Jedi’s generation does not have. Jedi is the exact same age as my Voodoo and we definitely have more verbals for the puppies now 🙂
T
Hi! These are looking good, you are not behind – there are just a lot of things to do with puppies 🙂
Tunnel games look really good – when she was on the outside of you (you were between her and the tunnel), she had no questions – you started nice and close and worked your way back. Be sure to follow that same progression when you do the threadle foundation – you started her really far back and she had questions, but did much much better when you started close. So on the next session, start her close on the threadle side too so she can get success right off the bat. And if you get success… add you threadle word! Do you have a verbal selected for tunnel threadles?
Rear cross flat work – these lap turns looked really good! Try to wait til she is within 2 inches of your hand before your arm and leg move, as that will help her propel back and makes it easier to turn her away. When you were a little early especially with the step back, it was a little harder to turn her. But when you were super patient, she did great!
The tandem turns look good too, she is bending really nicely in both directions! One the reps where you kind of smacked into her butt, you turned a little too early but on the rest you waited longer and it was really smooth.Strike a Pose –
Really nice too! You had really great position with your hands and feet and that helped her come in to the correct hand. You moved a little to get engagement with the toy, which was fine because I don’t think she would have turned to the new side yet – but you can start to fade out that movement by presenting the long toy and wiggling it when she moves towards it. And you can use treats which I am sure she will be happy to go to LOL! We added this to a jump this week, so feel free to move directly to that.She is also doing well with her stays – I don’t think you actually need a stay word (because sit also means stay, right?) but more importantly – is ‘break’ her come-forward release? If so, use something else to throw the cookie back. I use ‘catch’ for when I am throwing the reward back versus “break” when I want the pup to drive forward out of the sit. This will help as we really build up into the bigger stays, because she will know exactly where to expect reward and what to do. But the stays here and on the other videos are looking SUPER! Keep up the good job making them very reinforcing 🙂
Great job!!
TracyHi!
>>Also wanted to make sure – i should just add videos to this one post (rather than creating new posts). If that is correct – do i do that for the whole session or new for each week?
You’ll find it easier if you keep it all in this post – just use the reply feature or post feature at the bottom. That way we can scroll back and forth and watch his progress 🙂
T
Hi! Great start on these!
Serps:
As a side note: her stay is looking good! YAY!!!
She is driving in beautifully on the serp and also nailed the tunnel cue – perfect!
Because she did so well here, I think that you can use less arm motion back on the serp cue. You were making a really big clear cue and it was causing your feet to rotate back. So you probably don’t need to swing your arm back at all, just leave it out there and a little back, so you can keep running forward.To add challenge, you can lead out more so you are as little more past the jump when you release her and closer to the tunnel – she might look at the tunnel as more of a distraction there 🙂
Wraps versus tunnels:
I think on the first couple of reps you were doing a post turn with the wrap verbal, which looks very similar to the turn to the tunnel so she went to the tunnel a bunch 🙂 When you moved a little further away from the cone and were not moving as fast, she got it really nicely! And at 1:38 you started to rotate in more of a front cross fashion and I think that really helped her.
When you did tunnel to the post turn wrap – she got it! Good girl! The post turn that is a little decelerated and not heading to the tunnel (or the FC to rotate away) really helps. Like at 2:53, you stepped back towards the back wall on the post turn and also at 3:11 3:19 and she nailed it. Yay! It was really cool to see her thinking through the puzzle! So on the next session, start line you ended it here.>>Am I showing too much motion, is it supposed to be mostly on verbals?>>
I think the motion is helping her for now – and then you can fade it out so you can get it all while standing completely still 🙂
Contacts discrimination video
This is a really really hard game! Definitely not a train wreck and sometimes we need a session like this to figure out the mechanics and which hand goes were and what might help the dog 🙂 I am fine with rewarding for going towards the crate rather than in it, I think that was helpful for her and really helped raise the rate of success! You can also do it on a mat or dog bed rather than a crate if she likes to get on those – it might be easier to mark and reward.
Ideas for the next session –
You can jumpstart the game even more by doing a couple of reps by starting closer to the desired obstacle (more directly in front of the crate or tunnel) so you can pump up the reward for recognizing the different things with the presence of the other. You can do a session or two being right in front of each, then gradually work your way back to the middle and see if she is pairing your verbals. A bit of body language help is perfectly fine too 🙂 You were getting some really good reps of recognizing the crate at about the 2:45 mark and after it! And I like that when she was out there thinking about which one it was, she was trying to process the verbal, I could see steam coming out of her ears LOL!
The other thing you can do to jumpstart it is to start her at your side and use a little arm/leg step to help point out the one you want. For example, with this set up, you can start her on your right closer to the tunnel entry, then give a little step to it,. And then switch and start her on your left for the crate, then step to it.
Then we can fade that out too – it is easy to fade out the help once we get it rolling. Overall, this was a productive session because it got her thinking that *something* might happen near a tunnel that is not always about the tunnel LOL!
So this session might not have had as much success as the other two, I still think it was a good start to a really difficult behavior. Great job! Let me know what you think.
Tracy
