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Hi!
>>I have a question about wraps. I don’t like my dogs to take out the wing. I’ve always wondered if there is a way around that. Maybe just use wingless? Thoughts?>>
Do you mean when he was touching the wing with his side here in the first video? I agree, we don’t accidentally want to create a positive conditioned response to touching the wing 🙂 Based on this video, all you need to do is change the timing and placement of the reward – you were marking his head turn to the wrap as you were moving forward (spot on!) and plopping the toy in position (also spot on) and then he was touching the wing/moving it as he was tugging with you coming the rest of the way around it. So, a couple of ideas:
continue marking the same correct decision but toss the toy way back and let him retrieve it, rather than hold the other end and have him tug with you
continue marking the same correct decision, but toss a cookie way back to the other side.The tossed rewards might seem like we are creating more of an extension exit but I promise you that you will not get an extension exit on this wrap cue 🙂 Partially because the handling cue is VERY strong (you were really great with your line) and partially because we change timing and placement again:
– keeping moving forward and don’t mark until he has finished the 360 wrap, then either toss the reward back to him or have him drive to you to get the reward. (This should also eliminate touching the wing). If he touches the wing on any of these, play with this on a barrel or cone until the mechanics are sorted out (his and yours :)) – we can always institute a “no touching’ rule as part of the criteria but I don’t think he will need that.His tunnel/papas are going really well! He had a little question on the first tunnel but I think you changed motion for a heartbeat and that caught his attention. On the papa threadles – keep moving forward without turning your hand or turning your feet to the tunnel entry until *after* he has turned his head to it. That way, the papa cue is giving permission to self-send (is that a word?) to the correct end of the tunnel and he won’t have to wait for a hand or motion cue. It will be especially useful when you will not want to be turning and heading towards the exit, but rather when you will keep running past the entry of the tunnel.
He did a GREAT job of accelerating out of the tunnel with your TOY verbal – you can now start to add a GO GO GO verbal to put the directional on it (followed by the toy cue).Overall, he is looking great!!!! You are accomplishing all-the-things with a high rate of success and therefore a happy dog. Happy dance!
>>I have questions about your cue for ‘out’ but I’m too tired to type them out right now. Lol.
Ha! I have 4 cups of coffee on board, feel free to send over any questions LOL!!
>>And I have actually started working on stay. God forbid I actually have to train my dogs. Eek.
Bwahahahahaha I feel that!!!! In this class, there are 2 littermates to my younger pup and a very close cousin to my older pup… all 3 of them are far better trained than either of my pups LOL!! I definitely have built in plenty of feral time LOL!!!
Great job here, let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>We did some more rocking horse with more space outside. I think he did a good job!
Totally agree – his focus in a high distraction environment was *awesome*. That is really exciting!!!!
>> He got a little sticky one some of the reps.
Yes – I think the rep you are talking about was at :22 – you had connection then turned and pointed forward to the wing, so that broke the connection and he didn’t go (it is easier to see in slow motion LOL!!) That is pretty common with young dogs (on the demo video, that is where my pointy slams into my butt LOL!) so 2 things to help:
– your arm position is important at this stage (it won’t always be this important) so think of your hand being magnetically attached to his collar (not literally or actually attached, you won’t be touching him :)) – when he is behind you, you hand reaches back to his collar. And as he arrives near your and passes you – your hand will be low and moving with his collar, as if drawn there magnetically. Being low and moving with him will help with the commitment. When you (we) point forward ahead of the pups, that is the broken connection moment and they get sticky (or slam into us). So you basically your dog-side hand doesn’t really point out ahead of you or point at the barrel, it kinda moves with him. Your leg and connection and motion are what is cuing the barrel.– the other thing that will help is throwing more reward out past the barrel. He got a TON of rewards in this session – yay! You can shift the placement though – rather than the rewards being next to you or coming when he is moving back towards you, you can switch to tossing the treat to the other side of the barrel. This should reward moving away from you, which will help. And that way, your arm position won’t matter as much 🙂
>>I also am trying to make sure I really connect with him, but then as I have my head/chest turned toward him, I feel a little disoriented as to where the other wing is and my line can get a little wonky. How can I keep connected with him eithout getting lost? I know this seems so basic lol, maybe I’m overthinking it with him.>>
That is actually a great question, not basic at all LOL!!! I thought your connection was overall really strong, which si what these baby dogs need 🙂 I think the lower arm position will really help, because it will keep your eyes lower which also widens your field of peripheral vision. The other thing that helps is to mark your running line off of what you *can* see: in this case, the barrel you are doing the FC on. So if you watch the barrel you can see and choose your running line in relation to that one, then the next barrel (the one you cannot see) will come into view automatically when you are closer. Marking the line is something we do in course running all the time for when we can’t see the next obstacle without disconnecting.
The Minny Pinny is looking really good!! Definitely smart to add the verbals, he was ready. You can alternate the left and right turns more frequently – every other go-round or every 2 reps, rather than after 4 or 5 or so. That keeps things more in balance and helps him listen to the different cues. He was bending really nicely, leading from the head and using his body really well! You can move the two outer wings in a little bit closer so they are not at 90 degree angles, more like 70 degree angles from the middle jump, to see if he will now start to bounce while bending 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I think on the first couple of reps and then on the other side, you can move over a little to the exit line so he sees the barrel more (the barrel will help cue him to wrap) But you were really good about getting the reinforcement where it needed to be and that helped him sort it out nicely! You can even plop the reward in earlier – as soon as he is looking at the bump, toss it to the other side of the barrel. You can also use a bit more leg – you can step back with your leg to help cue the wrap along with your hand, than can help propel him to the bump. It is a really difficult behavior (because the ‘natural’ cue says “don’t take it” so we are overriding the pressure of you turning towards him). He is doing really well – you might want to try adding the motion of walking behind it (Advanced Level) and then release as you arrive at the barrel -that might actually feel less awkward 🙂Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyThat fox barrel is so cute!!!
Yes, I think this is correct and going nicely! It might feel like you were stepping to the side but I think it was more because you needed to let him get past you. When you get this outdoors, you can start further back – so he will go faster so you can run right behind his tail more 🙂 His commitment looks terrific, it seems like he has no questions about finishing his commitment job! Yay!! Have you decided on your backside wrap verbal?
T
Good morning!
Yes, the hardest part of this style of backside training is to say the LaLa to him and not to the barrel 🙂 Saying it to the dog’s eyeballs when he is behind you will cause you to turn at your waist a bit and pop your outside shoulder forward of your body, which is the cue he is reading (not the eye contact). If we look a little ahead, the outside shoulder ends up behind our bodies which is more of a front side cue. When Your 2nd rep was more to his eyes so he got it, 3rd rep (:38) was more to the barrel so he took the front. 1:00 was more to his eyes – and voila! Backside LOL! Same with 1:26 and after that 🙂 Yay! Looking good!
It also helps if you move for 2 or 3 or 4 steps up the line before you release him with the lala – that way he can read the line of motion to find the backside and it will be much easier to move further across the bar as you add challenge. You were generally releasing and moving within a step, so he had to read the motion and hear the verbal all at once. He seems to have a fabulous stay, so this is a great time to put it to use 🙂
Nice job here!
Tracy
Hi!
>>so I think I might use left and right to be loose and loop and ri-ri as tight turns.
Perfect! That sounds like a good plan!
I think he did really well with the threadles – but yes. do less with your arm to help 🙂 At :47 he started to sort out that he he had to leave the hand cue in order get the tunnel, so now keep going with that concept – the hand cues both the in-then-out so he doesn’t need to wait til it shows him the out element.
About rewarding… – was he just not terribly interested in the toy? You can use a ball for this, or a manners minder out at the end of the tunnel (the remote feeders actually add a decent amount of challenge in the impulse control department too!
>> I also will have to add some balance in my next session because I’ve been doing about 99% treadles lately – time to do some “tunnels” too.
Perfect! I think this will be easy for him.
Serp countermotion – This is also going really well! You can reward sooner to help get the ball rolling at the start of each session. As he is looking at the bump, you can toss the cookie back to the landing spot on the other side of the barrel. That will also help keep his eyes off of you as you move forward, so he will be looking at the barrel & bump. He is better at looking ahead when he is turning to his left (2nd half of the video) than to his right – interested! But either way, that earlier throw and having the treat land on the other side of the barrel (away from you) will totally help solidify this, especially as you go to the advanced level with even more motion.
Porridge heating:
>> I’ve been working with him on going silent and holding the toy close to me as a cue to let go (for now, until I can start adding a verbal). And he was releasing and not jumping much.>>
Yes, he did really well! Remember to reward the release by giving him the toy right back as a reward, rather the cuing a behavior. The immediate toy-as-reward for the release makes a big impact and gets a faster and more reliable out 🙂
The toy play went really well, he was engaged and in a good state of arousal (his sit at the end of the toy session was spot on!) It was a little challenging – his responses to certain behaviors were not quite as shaprt as they might have been with cookies? But he did get them on the 2nd cue – and so it was a good oportunity to work through stimulation.
Cookies are naturally less stimulating – so his responses were very good on the first cue for the most part and his sit was also really good. So, with food (because it gets him slightly “cooler” than toys): if you want him “hotter”, you can cue a trick, run a few steps, then deliver the dancing cookie. I think that will bring him into a similar state as a toy would and can be super useful for places where either he is not yet comfy playing with a toy, or you don’t want to use a toy (I often use food right before I go into the ring, not a toy). Being able to use both and then choose based on the situation is ideal, so he is off to a VERY good start with this! It is definitely a game to bring into as many places as you can 🙂
>>And I did a session of the left/right with less motion and we was ticking the bumps/bars less. I might do one more session like that and then add motion back.
Great!! I think that is a good plan. The ticking will stop when we educate him about the specifics of jumping and when he doesn’t have to multi-task as much.
>>How long will you be taking homework videos for this class? We’re off on vacation next Wednesday…
Wow, that sounds *wonderful*, I hope you have a fabulous time!!!!!!! I figured generally the 15th would be the last day, but if you have videos after thatm feel free to put them here and I will take a look 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi!
Thank you for the kind words 🙂 I appreciate your willingness to try all these new things, you and Kai looked AWESOME!!!!
>> I have a concern about working live with Kai as he will be 5 mo old ( not as old as you desire) and we aren’t as far along as this class went( we are working on it).
You are more than welcome to work live! We can break things down (or build them up) as needed – I let the pups lead the way on that! Some of the games will build on what we are already doing but also there are plenty that are brand new and no one knows yet (I guess I better teach my own puppies to get the games on video hahaha!) My smaller pup, Elektra, is 5.5 months old so she is very close in age to Kai.
>>Our next video is coming!!
Yay! Can’t wait!!
>> Ps.. i feel too many of your current students excel way beyond me.. i showed 2x in agility and both lost both of those dogs to death/disabilty issues. Starting again is so much fun and you are teaching me amazing skills not even approached by my past classes.>>
I am so sorry to hear about losing your previous agility dogs. Heartbreaking! And you are not behind anyone else – we all have moments of glory with the puppies where everything goes perfectly! And moments where it feels like we have never picked up a leash in our lives. Ha! I try to leave some of those in the video 🙂 In many ways, you have an edge because you are more of a ‘blank slate’ – nice young puppy and you don’t have any baggage from former techniques (which means you don’t have to unlearn anything, you can start fresh :)) The mechanics of training are the hardest part and those just take practice – and you are doing a great job with that, especially with such a quick puppy 🙂
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
This was not a bad session really, there were lots of really good parts and there were parts where he was clearly communicating what he *thought* the release was and where the value was 🙂The first :28 seconds looked awesome! And there were other really good reps in there too. No need to release to just you – the configuration dictates the chain of in then out – which is why at 1:07, he came towards you then back out (on the other side of the jump because you were blocking him, so he was just moving the chain over).
Now about breaking the stays on the station: I think 2 things were happening with that. First, I think he was predicting that when you assumed the serp arm position, the release was next – so on the reps at :45 and :57, he held the stay and self-released on the same rhythm that your releases came earlier in the game. Some dogs are very rhythmic, practically musical, and Lazlo appears to be one of those for sure. Dogs are brilliant predictors, so that is what he appeared to be doing. Smartie! And, second, the value of the serp game is very high right now (yay!) so he was happy to leave the station to engage in the game (and, because the value of the serp game AND the station are both high, he did not appear to get frustrated or disengage when things were not rewarded – that is great!)
So, a small tweak for you should help (I do this ALL the time because it turns out that I am VERY predictable according to all of my dogs HAHA!): throw rewards back to him on the station as you move into potision and more importantly: when you assume the serp position. Make the rhytm unpredictable 🙂 What I mean by that is: as you move into position, put your arm out – then throw the cookie back to him (he is going to leave the station to get it, which is perfectly fine). That helps him understand that the position does not necessarily predict the release: only the verbal predicts the release. Because he learned it originally from a cookie toss, he might read the position & hand signal as the cue and needs more understanding that the release is the cue in this case.
You did reward him really nicely on the station, but it was with you always going back to him to deliver it. So, by showing him the position and then, while you show the position, throwing a reward to him – that will help clarify that he should wait for the verbal and not try to anticipate when the hand arrives in position 🙂
So – yes you can totally keep working on the stay as a separate thing, but you don’t need to stop advancing the games! You just need to transfer the stay into the games by helping clarify what the release is 🙂 I don’t think of it as a few steps backwards, I think of it is a clarification.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
>>Session at lunch I used food and toy for the evening session. He had trouble doing a spin but that is a harder trick. He offered a sit after each time. Last night I tried this inside with food and he could only offer a down (even when I asked for a sit). I have to edit those sessions down before I post them.>>
The spin is harder especially with the toy, I think because the pups need to turn away and they can no longer see the reward. He will figure it out, though 🙂
Interesting about the down inside! You might have been leaning into him a little bit? Or sometimes the added stimulation results in a down with herding dogs.
Porridge heating looks good – he has lots of good tricks that you can totally build into an eventual start line routine. One suggestion with food – use it more like a toy 🙂 Have him chase you for it (run a few steps then deliver it) and/or have him put his front feet up on you to get it. That is very stimulating, which helps get engagement especially in new locations. He was caught in a bit of a crumb search or odor pool when the cookies were stationary, which means he was *almost* in the perfect porridge zone but not completely.
Minny Pinny looks good! He seems to be pretty equal in left and right, in terms of bending and being able to bounce them. He is alternating between bouncing and trotting so you can tighten the distance maybe 6 inches to see if you can get more frequent bounces.
On the toy porridge moment – this got him ready really well! No cookie odor distractions and I think the minny pinny after it went better (nice bending and more bouncing). It might also have been a cooler time of day, which helps too 🙂 It looks like you widened the distances a little and it took him a couple of reps to get the bounces going again, but he did! Yay!
Great job on all of your minny pinny reps with your placement of reinforcement, it really helped continue the bending! I agree that he was more comfy bouncing with the bumps in a little closer together, but he was able to sort out the bounce very quickly at the bigger distance, so you can leave them at the bigger distance at this point.
Great job!
TracyGood morning! Looks like you made the most out of your practice time!!!
Minny Pinny: There is so much I like about this session! He is bending really nicely and has sorted out how to bounce and not add additional strides. He also seems to be going into the minny pinny on the left and right verbals as the CUE and that is exactly what we want. Yay! You added additional countermotion challenge and he did fine until you got a bit too far ahead while moving quickly.
Here is an additional challenge for you – mainly a flexibility training element for him:
start him in the same position he ends in on the reps without countermotion, where he is parallel to the pinny. The difference is that you will be in between him and the wing, as opposed to the ending where he is between you and the wings (let me know if that makes sense). But starting him parallel to it (same as the ending) you are asking him to bending into that first bar/wing too. When we start the pups straight on, the bend is not as challenging but it looks like he is ready for more 🙂Serp exits are going well! He had one rep where you were a little too far past the wing so you opened up your arm too much, it looked like a fancy threadle and that is what he did LOL! The rest were awesome – great commitment! Nice job with your connection too!
>>I noticed that I released too early once I watched my videos.
I thought you were fine, actually – because you kept moving. So he heard the release right as you were passing the exit of the wing and then you were clearly on takeoff side when he approached it (allowing him to commit AND set up a nice exit turn).
I am super happy with this and think your timing was good! To put it in perspective, Voodoo didn’t get good at this commitment until he was 4. Years, not months. LOL! Stark is doing beautifully!
You might have done this, but be sure to run all the way around on some reps but don’t release – instead, go back and reward him for that awesome stay.
Using the tunnel is great fun! You can also drop the toy and drag it for a good chase on the exit too.Great job!!!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well on the 3 wings! They are not too big 🙂 And trooting is what to expect at the stage – he is thinking about bending his body and that is much better at a trot for now than at a gallop. Before adding the verbal, add in the jump bumps or low bars – the verbal is attached to the act of going over the bump/bar, so we want to be sure he is fine with those and then you can add the verbal. I think he will be fine with it, so you can probably add the verbal in pretty quickly! Fun!The rocking horses are going really nicely too!
>>Sometimes he can get a little sticky with committing to go around the wing, but he did well here>>
Did you see anything sticky in this session? I think of sticky as him stopping near the wing and not continuing around it, and I don’t think that happened here. He was slowing down a tiny bit to make the turn, but that is a good thing 🙂 If you are seeing him stop in front of the wing, you can keep the balance of value by throwing reinforcement out past the wing on a few reps. The reinforcement here was generally near you, so he might be wanting to stick closer to you. The spin look good! And the connection is looking good too. Yay! A couple of different ‘next steps’ to keep building this: if the weather is good, add more distance outside so he can feel the wind rushing by and get more speed going 🙂 That can allow you to turn and leave sooner too!
And, without more speed and indoors… keep working to bring the toy play into this (without food present at first). You might start with one or two wraps, but then you can gradually build it up to a toy-only game (eventually, no rush on that :))Speaking of toy play – I typed the above stuff before I read your next paragraph LOL!
>>He is doing great from going to training with treats to toy play! >>
Yes! Happy dance!
The toy play definitely looks like play, he is doing really well with playing and handling the arousal of it all.
Yes, you were a tiny bit twitchy on that first rep but it was actually a great opportunity to see how he does after a small error – and he didn’t get chompy or frustrated! It looks like he sniffed your hand for a treat and then did a good wrap. Yay! That is great! The 2nd wrap also looked really good- you can slowly move away sooner so that he doesn’t hit the wing when you give the ‘chase’ cue – but I love how he was able to play, be explosive AND be accurate all with the toy. Very exciting!!!!>>Also, I see there is another class after this one, yay! Would you say it’s okay to take that class even if we haven’t done the advanced version of all the exercises in this class yet? I have followed this class pretty well, but I know there are a couple games I didn’t do at all. Just want to make sure I won’t be behind for the next class…>>
Yes, you are totally good to go for the next class! We have a few weeks before it starts and then you can always hit the advanced games as that class goes along. There will be games in there (the jumping foundation and the proofing games) that are completely unrelated to the games here – new and different 🙂 And I can also give folks reminders of which games ot brush up, in advance of anything new we add.
Great job on these, he is doing really well!
Tracy
Good morning!
>> I have just signed up for the next Max pup session – very excited about continuing.
Yay! It will be so fun!
>>Could you let me know when the current session finishes?
September 15th is last day for videos 🙂
>>– I am taking a trip back to New York for a couple of weeks, so probably won’t be able to do much training – so might be too late when I get back 🙁 – but we’ll try to catch up before the next session starts…..>>
Hopefully you will get some time in, if not – no worries! You can catch up later on and the next session has stuff that is totally different too 🙂
Have a great trip back to NY!!
Tracy
Awww thanks! It was so fun to see Demi develop into a big time agility BEAST this summer! Go back and look at your first videos and compare to the recent ones…. wowza!!!! So much progress – she is a really fun teammate 🙂
Hope to see you soon in person or online!
TracyYay! This worked, thank you 🙂
She is still so little! I love it!This was a REALLY nice session: she is showing really excellent commitment to her ‘job’ of going to the wing and wrapping all the way around, even on hard angles and as you were moving forward with a ton of countermotion: excellent!!!!! Have you thought about verbal wraps cues for her? I suggest a cue that means wrap-left and a different cue that means wrap-right. She is ready for you to start adding them. I also think you can start the rocking horse games: the wing wraps are really looking good!
(Apologies if you were using a verbal, the sound on my computer is bad and I couldn’t hear it 🙂 )>>There is time she want to offer to do it without me asking her. Is there a way to make sure she works with me instead of doing it without my verbal ?>>
I see what you mean, like at 1:24 when she went behind you to restart or at 2:00 when she wanted to be sent to the wing and you wanted her to come to you. Two ideas for you:
you can reward her for coming back to you. It is easier & faster to reward with a quick cookie (if she likes them :)) and then go back to the toy to reward the wraps. Now, if she doesn’t love cookies OR if the cookie might cause her to lose interest in the toy, you can reward with the toy for both coming to you and for wrapping the wing. That is a lot of reward but she will love every minute of it 🙂
Also, on the last rep at 2:24, you did a short, gentle restraint before you sent her to the wing – she seemed to like it and did a great job on the wing. You can add that in on each rep: reward her for coming to you, then gently restrain her, then send her.
Let me know what you think! This is looking great 🙂
Tracy
