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Hi!
I agree, it is really fun watching them put it together!!! And yes, they do figure us out pretty quickly LOL! Half of the verbals I use are ones that developed by accident that the dogs figured out LOL!She is doing well here – before tightening the poles more, I think we should try to convince her to run to the poles more rather than trot in then pick up speed. She is probably still sorting out the weight shift to make the entry, so a couple more sessions at this angle or even a slightly easier angle (for the toy throw idea, see below) can help. As soon as she consistently runs to the entry, we can move to the next steps.
So, to get her to run to the entry, there are a few ways to do it and you can mix them all in during the training:
– you can take out your movement entirely, standing totally still, so she is not cuing off your motion (she runs when you start moving in the poles, for example). To take out your motion while also getting speed, the toy throws should happen at when her right shoulder is at pole 2, so basically she bends into the entry and then the toy is thrown – which means the 2nd base should be a ‘gimme’ that she can easily find while running to the toy (a gimme angle for her is probably 2&8 on that 2nd base).
You can verbally mark and be exciting… but don’t move or run – the propulsion to the poles should be separate from your motion.– you can also do a bit of the polar opposite: you are running at high speed, the whole time. I still suggest early toy throws (right shoulder at pole 2, as soon as she bends into the entry) but basically you cue the poles and take off and run. Wheeeee!
On both of those, work in the harder angles too – kind of as a back and forth between easy entry, hard entry, easy entry, hard entry – so the running to the easier entries gets mixed in too.
– the other thing to add in is the Find ‘Em game using wings that I posted yesterday – the wing wraps are stimulating and you can use those to elicit more driving to the weaves. Get her all excited, cue a wing wrap, and throw the reward early 🙂
>>The next session I switched back to the ball but really watched my verbals. She trotted out to the weaves but as soon as she got to them she drove through and kept her head looking forward down the line. I can try another session increasing around the arch with both the pet tutor vs the ball to see how that goes.>>
It is pretty normal that the PT elicits a bit of a slower drive to the poles at some point than a toy does (ball or lotus ball etc) – Because her head was straight with the ball and your verbals were stronger, I think sticking with the ball now will work. She is doing a great job of finding the behavior with the PT out there (rather than just running to the PT :)) and her head is straight, so you can keep the ball in play for now. If she starts to look back at you too much, we can switch back to the PT but I don’t think that will happen, I think she has the idea of ‘go straight’.
Nice work here!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
He did well here – I agree that it is a hard game and the dogs really have to think about it, which is why the speed is not necessarily the same as it would be going towards the MM. He hit the angles nicely and only had one judgey look at the MM haha 🙂 He stayed in really well too except when you were moving away a little and have a really excited marker verbal so he came out, perhaps expecting reinforcement. He was faster when you were moving more – so as you mentioned, using a toy reward will help that so he won’t be as thoughtful about having to move away from the MM. And it helps us fade the MM and layers in a bit of arousal because he also has to ignore the toy in your hand. And the toy will allow you to set up the next rep without him going back through the weaves 🙂 It is good to mix the throw reward in more and more at this point because then we will get the MM out entirely pretty soon too.This game only needs to be looked at a little bit here and there, so you move into the other games that involve tightening the poles 🙂
>>Hope it’s ok that I shared videos of Presto from class – probably should ask first>>
No problem!!! It is fun to see the compilation!!!
Great job here 🙂
TracyHi Leslie and Tofer!
Lisa is THE BEST! He did really well on the channels intro here – for a Border Collie, I believe the channels are terrific for getting the footwork. He is probably going to ‘swim’ – I posted some info about striding today. Bouncing is fine too, but based on his size, length and power, I think we will get swimming.
Plus the channels are great for teaching sooooo much independence! You can already see that in the 2 videos.
First video:
He had no trouble with this session – good boy, he was finding the entry and heading down the channel really well on your left side! On your right side, he just needed to be patient to let you set him up – so you can call him back and reward him as you line him up, so he doesn’t start without you. When you started him, he found those entries really well!On the 2nd video, with you moving, he did exactly what we want: hit the entry and run down the channels without paying the slightest attention to what you were doing LOL! Send, rear cross, run, it didn’t matter, he was weaving! Great job!
So now you can go onwards in the channel progression: adding harder angles of sending, countermotion, lateral motion, etc.
If he continues as well as he did here, you will be able to introduce him to the 12 pole channel really quickly and work the challenges on 12 poles.Great job!!!!
TracyExactly! She will let us know. If she chooses one that looks awkward, we can gently massage her choice towards the other haha! For example, Contraband for a moment chose the bounce, but he was very scrunched up. So I let him feel the swim on the channels, and that was soooo much more comfy. We will find out in the next week or so 🙂
TPS – his front end angulation will be what makes the difference – if he can get his head down and can reach for the swim, then we go with that. But if it is awkward, then we can let him keep his elbows in tight and bounce. He will tell us 🙂
T
Hi! At 20″, he might be a swimmer or a bouncer, but probably a swimmer? Channels are really good for helping the dogs sort that out but since the facility doesn’t have channels – I think it would work with Weaveamatics! You can totally try it – similar concept to channels and can totally be used the same way. Or, use 6 2x2s poles (3 bases) in that slightly open format and see what he does. It will be fun to play with striding this week!
Tracy
Yay! He certainly seemed to have no trouble with this at all! Perfect! You can revisit it here and there as you work the bang game and elevator games, but because he was fine with the movement – you don’t need to do sessions specifically for the rebound game. You can just add a little wiggle to the board maybe one time when he is in target position for the other games. Great job!
TracyHi! Thanks for the Krome update!
The first section with the bang game looked good but I agree – he was a bit too chill about it all. But then when you changed to a spoonful of delish for the 2nd session, wow what a difference! He was a wild man for it! That is good to know- you can see if he likes squeeze cheese or whipped cream, as those might be as high value but easier to run around with LOL! The reason I mention ease of running around: when he is in class and there is a teeter on course, you can reward before the teeter, then have him do a bang game just like this, for some crazy high value reward. That can start transferring his good teeter work in the class/course setting (which will help transfer it to trials). I suggest the bang game like this as a starting point for that, because there is probably no history of running up and bailing off the board in that context, so you should be able to get good reps in. You can bring the target too, if it is easy to attach to the board in other places. That wild man “I LOVE THIS” approach to the teeter is exactly what we want 🙂At home, using the spoon of delish: add a little more tip! And let him run through some tunnels before, to get him as excited as possible 🙂
He did really well on the teeter tables too! On the first rep at 2:19, he went righ across the board and into position, and looked pretty smiley about it! On that rep, the target was empty. On the other reps, I think the target had treats, so he did not go into position right away – and that is fine 🙂 I keep the target loaded until the board is hitting the ground – then it merges with the other end position games and he runs down and into target position. So for now, leave treats on the target to keep him running fast across the board, then just release him rather than ask for the target position (but keep working the end position cue & behavior separately so he builds that up). And you can add more tip here too, he looked very confident!
Nice work! Let me know what you think!
TracyLook at the good weather! Yay!!!
Great session here. The check-it-out rep to start was really helpful! And then I think she REALLY liked the tunnels before running the board – SUPER fast on rep 3 where you were ahead and also moving. When you were not as far ahead or not moving as much on the other reps, she was still fast and drove straight across. NICE!
Now because she is coming in with so much speed from the tunnel – see if you can get her nutty with the tunnel, then maybe tug or hop her up onto the table and get balanced on the table… THEN run down the board. It happens quickly so you can maintain the tunnel excitement, but that stop & balance moment will get more speed across the board. When she runs and leaps on and runs across the board, she was moving fast enough that she had to shift her weight back on the top of the board when landing from the leap on, then she had to try to pick up speed in order to shift her weight back. So she didn’t quite get all the way up to speed on the board. Balancing on the table and then running down should help that. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂
For the uphills/mountain climbers, you can urn directly from a tunnel and up the board (as long as you show it to her first, I don’t want her to be surprised and fly off :)). That simulates the teeter on a course.Great job!!!
TracyHi!
More good work from Ms. Confident here!!! Love it!On the elevator game: your attention to the mechanics needed was MOST EXCELLENT. Click/treat for you! I think you were doing a quiet countdown and then a louder target cue, and that is great. She did really well here – the first couple of reps were nice but check out the last rep: she was focusing forward AND shifting her weight in anticipation of the board moving. YES! Perfect. For now, other than playing this on as many different teeters as possible (which, due ot lockdown, might mean simply moving the teeters you have access to into differet places in the barn or yard) – you can add a little more independence on the target position and as she is arriving in target position, you are walking forward to challenge her to hit and hold the position as you move past.
The downhills are looking good! The target might be a little too close to give her enough room for her front feet? Maybe move it one paw-length away from the edge of the board 🙂
She is fast and confident, so you have to be really careful to always start her from a standstill on the barrel (or table or whatever is there) and NOT start her by leaping then down the board. Leaping on presents a balance & weight shift issue. Because she has to balance and weight shift after leaping on, but that leaves her no time to get up to speed and then weight shift again as the board moves. She was trying to get up to speed on the board, but it can’t happen after hte leap on which is why she fell off at :27 and was losing her balance and scrambling on the other reps where she was leaping on. We don’t want her to scare herself or consider slowing down across the board, so it is easier to not have her leap on.
Her end position work looks great! So for now, have the target empty and you can deliver the cookies after she hits and holds the position.
Great job!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>My go on cue means run in extension and take obstacles on the line in front of you, eg, last 3 jumps on a course or anywhere I want the dog running in extension.
I understand you are distinguishing left/right/straight exits just not sure that will confuse my cue for Go On. Suggestions?>>
I think of my verbals as ways to help the dogs understand how to exit the obstacles:
left or right produces that “soft” exit. The wrap verbals produce a very collected exit. And the GO verbal asks for an extended exit. So when I say GO as part of the commitment cue on a jump or tunnel, that means to commit to the obstacle in extension and exit in extension. If I want that to happen on the next obstacle too, I will say it again. So if the end of a course is a straight line exit of a tunnel to 2 jumps, I will say GO before the dog enters the tunnel, then say it again (and again LOL) to get the extension on the jump and then the next jump if needed.>>In your example Contraband ran out of the tunnel with the Go cue was asked for a tight left turn.>>
Do you mean when he had to exit straight and find the wing, then wrap back to the tunnel? In that scenario, here is how I used the verbals:
as he exited the wrap before the tunnel, I said ‘tunnel’ then 3 feet or so before he entered the tunnel, I started the GO cue so he knew to exit the tunnel straight and NOT turning or looking for me. He needed to exit the tunnel straight in order to see the line to the wing. Then when he exited straight and could see the wing, I switched to his left wrap cue to indicate what I wanted on the wing. So the Go cue in that situation only applied to what to do on the tunnel and not what to do on the wing. If the GO that was given before the tunnel also applied to the wing (or if it was a jump)… then I would never be able to turn my dogs LOL!Let me know if that makes sense. If not – tell me exactly where on the video you had the question so I can see the context 🙂
TracyHi there! Hope you had a great weekend too!
>>Also trying to make sure all frisbees are out away after frisbee play so they don’t become a distraction.>>
Welcome to my world. Frisbee distractions are currently a big thing at my house LOL!
It is so fun to see her be able to open up and run run run here! And yet she also had LOVELY left and right turns on the tunnel exits. Such a nice balance!!! You were doing a really good job of connecting as you drove her through this – the connection on the front crosses on the wings looked really strong. Most of the tunnel exit connections were spot on too – she is very literal (as is typical of young dogs LOL!) and when you disconnected and pointed forward, she was not sure where to be. That happened at :10 on the wing after the left turn tunnel exit, but you felt it and fixed it on all the other wings after the tunnel turn exits. On 2 of the GO exits (:40 and 1:36) you were a in a good position but pointed forward, so she wasn’t sure if she should go around the wing or come in next to you. When you were looking at her more on the tunnel exits, she zipped right around the wing 🙂
So, for now – keep emphasizing that connection! As she learns more about the game, it won’t be as important because value for the wings (and eventually jumps) will come way up. Right now, value is on you (da momma!!!) but it will shift so you don’t need to worry about always needing perfect connection.Good job adding in a couple of reps with the GO for the toy at the end! She was excellent on those! Right now, she is better at turning on the tunnel exits and not as strong with going straight – that is also pretty normal, as youngsters are usually stronger at one over the other. But those reps at the end will really help balance her. You got her to go straight by being ahead on some of the reps to the wing, and that helps too.
>>I ended up going and getting a toy and trying to do a couple drive lines at the end just to get her driving forward and make sure she understands the “go”.>>
She seemed to really love the toy reward on those! On the sections with the turns on the exit and the wing wrap, you might want to add the toy back in! That will certainly help with distractions – and will really require you to nail the connections as the toy will be more exciting (or try it with a frisbee :)) I like to add toys in to spots where I am feeling comfortable with my handling, because the toys will get more speed and motivation from the dog. If I am NOT feeling comfy, I don’t add them as much because I don’t want to mess things up with the dog going really fast 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>skeptically optimistic>>
HAHAHA that is a great way of putting it 🙂
I am glad everything is going really well! You can shelve the uphills for now – focus on the downhills because that is going to turn into a big ‘putting it together’ moment when the board meets the ground!
And since the bang game is going really well, you can move to the other end position games: rebound game, elevator game, and fading the target on the plank. It is going to come together really quickly in the next few weeks!!! FUN!!!!
Keep me posted 🙂
TracyHi!
>.We did it once outside the chiropractor’s office on grass next to a busy street. Of course he was on leash, but paid no attention to the traffic or his surroundings.>>
Wow! That is terrific!!!
He did really well on the video. I think the next steps have to do with getting this behavior without the target but also without him also being able to see the treats. So, like with the bang game above, move the treat holder stool to behind him – so he has to leap into the board into position with the cookies in a spot that he cannot see 🙂 Now, if this makes his head explode, you can put the target back in on the board for a couple of reps to help him out.
Having the food behind him and not in his field of view is perfect for transitioning this to trials, where we will be asking for this behavior and the treats will be outside the ring.
That should also take care of the issue of having treats on you or in your hand – we fade them out by having them behind him.>>2. My being behind him. Now, maybe without treats on me, he can go to the target and I can be behind him….not sure.>>
We can approach this a couple of different ways (and to get it started, the target can go back in if he struggles to be correct). We will change just one variable at a time, because it is a hard skill:
I think the cookie chair behind him will help get this started – with you continuing to be moving forward, so he can still see you.
Then when he is good with that, you can start hanging back more and sending him ahead of you, bit by bit.
And if he is curling around to look at you and the cookie chair, you can add in that target out ahead that you used in the video – the round plastic target on the ground, a few feet ahead. Then you can release him and throw a cookie forward to it, to help him continue to look straight. I wouldn’t have the cookie already on the target, in case he releases himself and grabs the treat 🙂 It is just a focal point to help jump start the behavior.Let me know if that makes sense, and let me know how he does 🙂
Nice work here!
Tracy
