Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Hi! She did a great job here! Weaved when asked, tunneled when aske – a really nice balance! Yay! That will bode well for the future on course when the weaves and tunnel are right next to each other!
>> If it’s a no no to go back and forth from one end to the other, please holler. I don’t think I’ve done any permanent damage if it’s all wrong, but don’t want to fall into the habit, either.>>
Definitely no permanent damage done LOL!!!! I avoid it on short sets of poles (2 and 4) for 2 reasons: it is harder to establish the reward line, so the dogs end up looking at us more, and also because we tend to not cover all the angles in favor of the easier angles on the back and forth. I suggest holding off on the back and forth until we have 6 or more poles, as the fuller set of poles will provide the reward line so the dogs don’t look up at us as much 🙂
Nice work 🙂
TracyIt is a hard code to crack sometimes! Usually I find that watching the other dog work is helpful for raising arousal (there is actual science about this). I also save the high value toys for the hard stuff and only do one or two reps. And when using food, lots of mixing in toys right after a cookie helps too! Play with letting him watch Callie then doing just 2 reps, and see how it goes!
T
Hi! She looks great here! She is very consistently finding her entry, and you were able to add plenty of motion: no problem. Yay! When she is on your left, on a couple of reps you sent her before she was lined up – and she missed on those. When you lined her up, she was perfect. So, be sure to line her up so she can nail those hard left side entries. You were really good about lining her up on your right side and she did a great job on those! You can add more difficult right side entries too, moving down towards the 4-5-6 o’clock areas.
Because she is doing so well, you can totally move on to the next steps of the 2x2s posted today!! Have your channels arrived yet?
Tracy
Hi! These sessions went well!
On the tunnel versus weaves session: the left hand side went really nicely, I don’t think he had any trouble at all with that! The right side sends were harder – on the first rep, he was indeed distracted by the tunnel but than I think the tunnel was not the distraction… I think it was the Manners Minder! He had trouble ignoring it to go alllll the way out to the entry 🙂 One thing I notice is that when you line him up then take a heartbeat for him to look at it before sending him, he was consistently better. But when he spent a heartbeat looking lovingly towards the MM, he would consistently miss LOL! So for now – line him up and let him focus forward, then send. Start at the 4 o’clock spot and then gradually get closer and closer to the MM at 6 o’clock.
The straight poles look really good here too! He was finding them very consistently here, including the really hard ones! You can add more motion to these now – send and get moving before he arrives at the poles. If he can handle the motion (building up to jogging), then onwards to the new games posted today. Yay! Great job here!
TracyHi! He did really well here too – Most of it was quite perfect but he did have a couple of pop outs when the toy moved before he was in the last set of poles. He saw you getting ready to throw and decided to help make it easier for you haha! When you delayed til he was in the last base, he was fine so a couple of ideas for you on that:
Add the PT back in as a visual focal point for him, so he is less locked onto the squirrel movement. You can still toss the frizzer but the focal point will help reduce pop outs – that will really help when you add the crazier handling that is coming in today’s game with the channels 🙂And on easy lines of entry, you can be wiggling and flapping the toy a little bit, to help him understand to ignore it til he is finished weaving. You can also do this with the 2x2s, because there are fewer poles and therefore easier to be correct 🙂
For really hard stuff on the channels, you can delay the throw til he is in the last base, but we also want him to be able to ignore the frizzer if you twitch it a little early 🙂
You can add that in with some simple sets with the 6 poles and then onwards to the harder stuff! Yay!
Great job here!
TracyHi! He did great here on the straight poles! Almost all of the entries were really solid and he was fine with motion. He also seemed to be perfectly happy with the ball mixed in. The only hard entry was that 3 o’clock entry – that is hard for a lot of the dogs! My Elektra was really having trouble with it, so I did a clicker session right up near the straight poles, clicking for getting into the entry from that angle (and harder angles on that side) and dropping the cookie right past the entry. That really helped, so it might be something to try with him too.
Because this went so nicely, onwards to the new games! You’ll see the announcement shortly 🙂 He doesn’t need that 3 o’clock entry to be perfect to start the next steps, so you can work those and also isolate the 3 o’clock entry.
Great job!
TracyHi!
>> I have been trying to call her back to me with the treat and that works well, but you are right, she more often than not takes off without the cue. I just started using a sound to cue her.>>
>>How do you recommend I get her to wait for my cue? Make her sit/stay at every hour of clock?>>She loves to work! And that is great. If calling her back for a treat is not super high value and she might still start before the cue, you can call her back for a toy 🙂 If weaving is high value, then the reset reward can also be high value.
Plus, that helps to maintain the balance of value for obstacles and handler, so she is happy to drive to an obstacle or drive to you when cued.
I think asking for a sit between each rep might be a bit boring LOL!!!! And also, she might not want to sit, then the two of you will potentially argue about it LOL so I vote for line up cookies or toys to make it more fun to hang out with you. Then, to clarify the send cue, I do something that I call the ‘ready dance’ – I face the dog a bit, wiggle back and forth and say ready ready ready to get her to look at me… then send to the poles with the arm/leg/verbal. It is goofy but works quite nicely 🙂
>>My son was treating her in both videos but for some reason she started looking back, don’t really know what that was about. I had to encourage her to go to Alex for her treat.>>
Border Collies sometimes prefer action over food rewards, so maybe that was it? We can use toys! You’ll see me using toys with my BC/Whippet mix in some of this weeks videos. He likes food but LOVES toys 🙂
>> I placed the frisbee at the reward line, which I have done before, working by myself. It’s really a bad idea because she gets more excited about that than a treat. But she will leave it at the reward line and runs to it. But since she loves the frisbee even more than treats, she was going through many, many times without me asking to get to the frisbee. On the positive side, she’s choosing to do it! But I get it, I need to be in control.>>
>>So, recos for making her wait for my cue? No reward at all if she goes through without my asking?>I don’t think that was a bad idea at all! It was a great idea! If I am understanding it correctly… she was pretty accurate going through the weaves but was starting without you?
If so, I recommend 2 frisbees 🙂 One for the reward line, one for coming back to you. If she will tug on a frisbee, she can tug with you – then you send her through the poles to the other frizzer, then you play with the one she got – then place it again, get her to play with you, then send again. Or any combination: for one of my dogs, I do a frisbee as the reward, then cheese as the line up cookie, then the frizzer reward… he really likes that 🙂 Let me know which 2 things she likes and we can use those!
I think getting a toy involve will really help because with the cookie, she was very quick to eat the treat and then go weave LOL! Smartie!! That way the poles are all about play play play and cues, and you don’t have to withhold reward or tell her she was wrong if she starts without you.>>I haven’t done the throwing the treat into the bowl as I think she’ll look back at me. But think it’s worth a shot, if I can find a big enough bowl for my very bad aim. >>
Another foodie option is a lotus ball or treat hugger – that way your aim doesn’t need to be great and the food is more interactive.
Cracking the code of reinforcement strategy for each dog is the hardest part – but totally worth it.
>>Lastly, I think, I was doing the forward motion? I thought I was. By that I was walking down the reward line. Or do you mean adding a hand cue as motion?>>
You can add more challenge by going faster – you were moving up the line, but now see if you can job or run! I don’t think it will be a problem for her, she is very focused on the job 🙂
New games posted today! Great job on these!
TracyHi! This was super! She was fast, focused on her line, and pretty darned accurate. You had lots of angles and lots of motion and she was fine with it. I think you can probably do more sends where you are completely stationary from the 10-11-12-1-2 areas and she has to go alllll the way without you 🙂 But I think she will be fine. The MM as target seemed to help her stay straight, so you can leave it there (maybe move it back a tiny bit so she has more room on the exit).
Because this went well… onwards! The new games are posted (you have already done one of the challenges on 6 poles here, which is driving way ahead). We take significant steps forward on both the 2x2s and channels, it will be fun! Great job 🙂
TracyHi! He did really well here on the straight poles! He was looking at you a little when you were stationary, especially when you were at the 12 position – but I think that will go away as we add poles 3 and 4. Also, when you use only toy, you can still have a MM or something out there as a focal point for now so he doesn’t look back at you at all.
He did have a little trouble on the right side hard entries at the end – I agree that he might have been tired, so you can try those early in the next session.>>And I added some movement and tried to do it slow, but starting right away. That didn’t seem to be a factor in this session (except maybe in the last couple of reps), although it will be interesting to try with channels since there are more ways to “fail” there!
>>And I added some movement and tried to do it slow, but starting right away. That didn’t seem to be a factor in this session (except maybe in the last couple of reps), although it will be interesting to try with channels since there are more ways to “fail” there!>>
The movement went really well! I think he will be fine in the channels because you can click when the left shoulder gets to pole 3 and that helps keep him in (we delay the click a little later in the progression). When you send and move, you can add challenge with more of a ‘split step’ away on the line, meaning send with one leg and the other leg steps immediately down the line. You were rounding the corner with him a little, so now you can raise the stakes but splitting your step and getting outta there even sooner 🙂
>>One question I have is about how to structure the session. I tend to kind of “popcorn” around on sides and angles. But then I end the session and feel like I missed something important. Is it better to be more structured and work systematically around the clock, maybe starting at noon and working back to nine (or further) and then back to noon and around to 3 or so? Or, is it ok to be a bit more random and assume that over several sessions you’ll end up covering enough of the clock? >>
On a session with new challenges, I tend to start on my left at 9 or 10 o’clock to make it recognizable and to get the dog starting on a bend into the poles (there is more info about that on today’s games). I like it to be recognizable for youngsters to set them up for success (we can randomize it later in the training). Then, after you get things rolling, you can pick how you want to progress – step by step around the clock, or popcorn. I personally am a bit of a popcorner too – but what really matters is that we keep the rate of success high AND we make sure we show the dog ALL the things at some point. I use the field guides as trackers to make sure I am covering all the bases before moving forward to the next step. Popcorning all over keeps me pretty engaged (not sure if the dog cares LOL!)
But also, I don’t assume that I have covered all of my bases because we humans are creatures of habit – and I can guarantee that without tracking it, I would miss the 4,5,6 right side entries and not get them done til I figured out it was a big training hole. So, tracking it either right after the session or from the video will help it all get done.Onwards to the next set of games! They are posted in the Course Syllabus section.
Have fun!
TracyHi!
>. I assume you leave the kibble to dry after these lovely soaks. The MM is so picky that the kibble gets stuck sometimes. I can’t imagine what it would do with wet stuff!>>
Yes, you can totally soak it and let it dry before going into the MM (or mix in dry stinky stuff :))
She did really well with the MM here on the all the different angles. Because she is finding these so accurately, with the MM you can add in running as you send her. But also, let’s add in the squirrel because I think she needs to learn to weave when she is ultra-excited and the chuck it squirrel brings that to the table.
>>I did try using the chuck it squirrel as a tossed reward. It was pretty much a disaster. She’d go out, circle 1 pole and then start running hoping I’d throw the toy. I tried a few different things, but when she started getting fed up, I figured I didn’t want to “kill” that toy for us, so went to kibble in the MM.>>
She was all excited (yay!) but didn’t realize how to earn the toy in this context. So, two steps to adding the toy in to help her out:
first, use the MM as the reward but carry the squirrel toy with you. The toy is visible but but not in throwing position. Start nice and close and click the MM for easy entries… then throw the toy. That creates a really nice back-and-forth between the food and toys, while getting her into a higher state of arousal.If she can do that – sometimes mix in the thrown toy as the reward instead of the MM. The MM is still here to give her a focal point but she will have more experience seeing the toy as part of it, so that way she will be better at finding the poles when the toy is present.
Adding in the arousal early on should help ups ward off the “not seeing the poles” that many young dogs do early in their trial careers, when they get excited in the ring 🙂
>>what should I be focusing on? We can do the tunnel discrimination again. Anything else in particular, or is there another set of exercises coming along soon?>>
The 2nd set of games has been posted in the Course Syllabus section as of this morning (I need to double check that they are visible LOL!) We add in every 2 weeks to make sure we cover all of the bases 🙂
Let me know what you think! She is ready to move forward into the next games 🙂
Tracy
Hi! Hooray for new batteries!!!
I feel like he is doing the weaves accurately and really well, but we can increase the passion for them. I think if we can crack the code of reinforcement strategy with him, it will be clear sailing. He likes the MM but doesn’t LOVE the MM, and really only goes to it when you are moving. It was smart to bring the MM closer in this session (you can bring it in even closer!) and also smart to add your motion. I think opening up the channels a notch for now will help too so he can run run run and not have to think about anything else yet.
So – other than squirrels 🙂 – what does he LOVE? You can jazz up the food in the MM by adding in stinky stuff (my MM currently has gross stinky dried tripe mix up in it, and the kibble picks up that smell ewwwww). You can leave the MM there as a target and sometimes click it, and sometimes throw a toy (frizzer or ball or tuggie or hose, which one(s) does he love?)
The other thing you can do is let him watch Callie for a rep or two… then he does one or two – then her turn, then his turn, etc. Callie doesn’t have to weave, she can do anything exciting but watching her might out him into a higher state of arousal, which will crank up the weave excitement.
At that point, when he is cranked up for them and still accurate – it will be a very quick progression to close them up into straight poles.
Let me know what you think and we will brainstorm reinforcement strategies!
TracyGood morning!
He did a really good job with the tunnel right there! I think the tunnel was a little distracting because he was doing some other behaviors like the going around you – that little bit of distraction can stimulate the other behaviors. The slowing down was probably him thinking his way through the tunnel distraction (plus he has to collect more on straight poles, which does involving slowing down a little – so yes, you can start the next session on slightly open poles then close them up again).
Also, I think that the tunnel distraction was also part him not being sure which side of you to be on – so you can use the line up cookies to reset him. If you call him to your side and he gets a cookie at your side before the send, he is going to be very happy to come to your side and let you send him – and that way you will have the extra moment to show the clear send cue. I think he was trying to anticipate, and was perhaps thinking he needed to be on your other side to go towards the tunnel.
On this set up, you can add challenge by having him on your right side so he is entering facing the tunnel entry (and the reward target is moving to the other side of the 2 poles, at the bottom of the screen here rather than at the top of it). It places the tunnel more in view and asks him to bend into the poles rather than run straight through them to the tunnel 🙂>> Also, if Cowboy “back-weaves” away from the direction of the target should I reward that? Technically, he is entering correctly. It’s just not the direction I had indicated.>>
Yes, you can reward it, because it is correct offered behavior and your body was facing that way… but ideally, you call him back to you and give a line up cookie before he has a chance to offer the weaves going the other direction. At this stage, we want the weaves to be a ‘by permission only’ obstacle so the line up cookies will help keep the value on coming back to you to line up and then get sent.
Great job here! New stuff is posted today for you to try 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi! I bet the concert was a BLAST!!! So fun!!!
Chapter looked great here – driving right up to the end regardless of what you were doing. Yay! He was that “just right” combination of super drivey and thoughtful/focused. Perfect! Since it went so well, the only thing to change is to add a tiny bit more to, bit by bit.
And if possible, drag the teeter to a different part of the yard so he gets the experience of a “new environment” pretty regularly. It is a royal pain in the butt but so useful to drag it around 🙂
All of his games are progressing really well! I’m excited for you!!! Grrat job 🙂
Tracy
