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Hi!
>>but I dont think didi means a big turn away from me, Just a lead change or a slight turn away. Coming out of the tunnel didi should tell her to take #3 on the wing farther from me, but I don’t think she understands she should go out and take 4.>>
Aha! I think we are on to something! She does not appear to understand that didi means to jump 3 on the far wing – she was not doing that on yesterday’s video, she was turning when she landed and you stepped in. To get her on the far wing, she needs more of the open chest/extreme connection when she is approaching 3. And then a specific verbal to get out and take 4 will help.
>>I will try asking her to sit, but she will be pissed for sure. Sometimes she does it nicely, but sometimes the devil takes over.
I know, I know, Voodoo agrees with Tokaji LOL!! Sometimes we need to piss off the devil to remind the devil to collect 🙂
>>So you are saying at 19 don’t wait for her to take 4, just show it to her and move on to 5 ?
Yes – handle 3 from a distance so you are already at 4 and moving away from it.
On the video:
The more I watch, the more I think that she does best when you strategically handle from a distance so you can send and leave – and for tight turns, distance/sending to get to position, then cue & leave as she is heading into the turn.One other thing I notice is that when you handle like that, she doesn’t have time to bark – she grunts. LOL!!! Too funny!!
Sequence 1: fabulous! Lovely connections and lines.
Sequence 2: you are going to laugh… you might have been too early on your FC 🙂 You started it before she landed from 4… but maybe not too early! Your backside verbal was super clear, she went to it without too much sassing and set up a good turn. I think you were a little off the line on the first rep because she clipped the bar a tiny bit at 5. But this might be the timing and use of distance she needs! The second rep looked really good!
Sequence 3:
Also looking really good! Nice send to the backside – then you did a FC on landing of the 4 backside but it looks like it was easy for you to execute and set you right up for the wrap cue to indicate and leave at :34 and then even earlier at :45At :43 you were using your dididi cue, to cue her to be on the far wing of 3? She jumped it benidng towards the inside wing, so we can definitely help her sort out more understanding of didi.
Sequence 4:
also really nice! You are nailing these! Little details on this one:
If you give your backside cue to 4 without as much high dog-side arm (lower arm, more connection) then you won’t have to change your weight shift as much to get through the blind. You had a high arm on the send on the 1st run so it took a moment to get the blind and then you had to hurry to get the push – things always go better with her when you are ahead and leaving, no hurry 🙂 Compare that ti the low, more connected send at 1:05 and how much smoother it was to get through the blind.The push itself looked good – nice connection!! As she passes you at :58, move directly forward to the tunnel and do a blind 🙂 You like the RCs on the tunnel entries like these but the BC sets up an easier/better line and you’ll get ahead more. The only time I would do a RC in this situation is if the course went somewhere off to your left… and maybe not even then 🙂 You did the BC at 1:11 and it was great! As she passes you there, you can disconnect for hte blind sooner – that makes it even easier 🙂
Seq 5 – this is the hardest one for controlling lines! On the first rep, you were connected by not leaving as early so she had more questions – you stayed at 5 for a bit too long(1:19) which resulted in her going too long over 6 (1:21) because your cue started after she was jumping. She was a good girl to get the correct side of 7!
You definitely oved more on the 2nd rep of it and the cue at 6 was MUCH earlier – vrey nice! I bet on this one you can sned/leave on on 4, 5 and 6 to get the turns! Maybe strategically be closer to 3 then send/leave on 4-5-6 so she has to chase you through it!Let me know what you think! Great job here!
TracyHi there! Nice work on these – she is happy to let you sort out bobbles because she is having fun and getting lots of prizes in cookies and toys 🙂
Sequence 1: that went well on the first rep! Really nice throughout!! My only suggestion is to turn her to her left on 1 and 3 (better line to the tunnel) rather than to her right. As you get more comfy with the push cue, you can add more lateral distance away.
On the 2nd rep, you did turn her left to the tunnel 1-2 and it looked great! You turned her right to the tunnel over 3, which is a longer line, but really nice transition and she had a nice collection there!
Great job on the push!You turned left on 1 and 3 on both reps on run 3, yay! A little more decel into the spin would make it perfect, but it is definitely the fastest way to do it. The backside looked lovely again!
On other suggestion: start the push verbal right before she goes into the tunnel and then keep saying it til she gets to the backside. If you are silent, she comes out of the tunnel looking at you.
Longer sequence:
One suggestion for the start of this one and the next one is to set her up on a more dramatic slice at 1, so she is facing 2 on a straight line and doesn’t have to turn at all. This is to chop off a tick on the course time 🙂 All of your starts looked really good so this is a subtle detail.
Great transition, lovely collection on the wraps!!!! NICE! Only one suggestion: Give her more exit line connection at 1:01 and 1:25. She had a lovely collection but after landing drifted a little, trying to know exactly which side to be one – so exaggerate that arm-across the body with exit line connection and look at her eyes, and it will be perfect.Sequence 2:
On the first run: By setting up for the RC on 4 at 1:39, you are getting a really lovely 1-2-3-4…. but too far behind for 5 as you found out at 1:39.
Then you did something funky at 3-4 with a BC on landing of 3 to turn right on 4 and left on 5 but she missed 3 and that sets up longer lines anyway.The concept of keeping her on your right and pushing with a get out to 4 at 2:12 was spot on! It looked like you got on a backside line there with pressing in too much, you just needed to be a little further up, heading more for the outside wing. I thought you were better at 2:4 but she still took the backside. She might need less pressure on the line, meaning you can run straight for longer and not run towards 4, just using your upper body for the get out like on the shorter sequences. This is more of what you did at 2:55 and she found the front of 4 really nicely! You repeated it with great success on the last 2 reps too, the last rep especially had a lovely collection on 4.
Then you discovered that backwards motion is the same thing as forwards motion LOL!! You were rotated by running backwards, so she stayed out on the line. You can rotate and stand still/decelerate so she drive to you. Also, in that situation, you can try shifting connection down to your hand so she focuses on coming to it. You were able to get it on the last 2 reps by running further from the jump 5, but still backwards. So the goal, knowing that 5 is the hard turn, becomes sending to 4 from further away so as she commits to it, you are already at 5 and you don’t have to back up at all! That will make your life easier on that line, and her “out” commitment is looking great!>>After watching the video, I wish I had FC 4 and wrap the near wing.
Do you mean wrapping her to her right over 4? I think you chose correctly, with the fastest easiest lines for her (which will translate better to cleaner, faster runs). It is not easier for us humans LOL!! But getting comfy with the get out cue from more of a distance will help that.
Great job here, you two are looking terrific!
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Yep too many years of being in the pit. I would love to go to Broadway and see Hamilton :).>>
The pit days were some of the best days ever!!!! When all of this pandemic craziness is over, we will find a time and place to go see Hamilton! Meet you in NYC?
>>Early on we did a bit of the proofing game with her, but not as much as you show in the advanced part of max pup with the serp/threadle/tuynnel round the clock. I can pick that back up with her and once she is successful with the angles, should I add some speed into it as well? I know speed makes her brain go Yipee Yahoo!
Yes, definitely add speed. There is no adding speed with the puppy video because it was the first time they were seeing the game 🙂 I added speed into a version of it with Contraband yesterday and his head kind of exploded LOL!
>>Is the video for the backside proofing part of the game 4 package or in the Max Pup course? I wasn’t sure. >>
It is puppy class 🙂 We are doing some crazy things with the pups! I have some of it on video and will be getting the rest today/tomorrow 🙂
T
Good morning!
Pregnant! Congrats! I am excited for you 🙂
You were getting her to come in nicely so it is the go back out we can work on. I see it in 3 pieces that are all trainable:
The come in to momma – she was doing that so you can throw the reward past you to help really solidify driving towards you
The turn away on the flat – this is kind of where a tandem turn on the flat would be the most similar cue for her. Yes, I agree that she might not want to turn away from you: herding dogs do not like to turn away from their stock or handlers! to the point where they can’t see you much at all.
Have her come to you, then flip her away on the flat (don’t worry about cuing the tunnel, because she has to turn away before you can cue the tunnel) then reward the turn away. The handler mechanics of the turn away are pretty slow, not a fast flip away. And I use my hands (both hands, with emphasis on my outside arm) to lead the dog through the turn away. To get it rolling, because she sooooo does not want to do it: feel free to lure lure lure! Use a cookie in your hand if she is in a cookie mood, or a toy in your hand – get her focused on the lure then turn her away with it, then throw it so she turns and leave you.
You can start it in the house, then move it to a wing. We are working this skill in puppy class right now, you can see it here:
(this is after we got them turning away on the flat, and you can see I totally have a cookie in my hand for my pup to focus on)As for the 3rd thing, leaving you for the tunnel without spinning or looking back:
As with the turn away, I think a lure will jump start this process. She needs a really good reason to leave you and a toy can provide that reason LOL!
But we will break down where the toy is to show the most important element – heading towards the tunnel. Start with her next to you and kind of sideways to the tunnel entry. The toy is pre-placed on her line to the tunnel entry, maybe 3 or 4 feet before the entry? There is nothing wrong with letting her see you toss it there 🙂 Then flip her away to get the toy 🙂 Using the same sideways set up, the reward gradually moves further and further away towards, into and through the tunnel: if she can leave you when the toy is 3 feet from the entry, toss the toy into the entry. Then place it halfway through (you can shorten up the tunnel for this 🙂 Then place it at the exit of the tunnel. And so on 🙂 It will take a few sessions but I think she will get it.Then….. we put all 3 pieces together into a nice tunnel discrimination without spins 🙂
It might take a little while to get all 3 elements working the way you want them too – it is a trained skill for sure! So in the meantime… if you have a trial next weekend, feel free to jam into a (possibly late) FC and then send her to the tunnel. Sure, you might be late and sure, she might give you a piece of her mind LOL! BUt then you can drive her into the tunnel and eliminate that frustrating refusal. You will have a moment of madness on a late FC, but it won’t be a refusal because of the way refusals are called – grab her with connection on your new side then drive her to the tunnel. She will like that 🙂
Let me know what you think! It is not necessarily the commitment skill for this lesson but we can certainly shift to focus on it because it is a really important commitment skill!!!! I think we can even put it into the games coming up this weekend!
Tracy
Good morning!
I think this was a value shift session (or two): the value is on the lines right now and shifted away from coming off the lines. No worries but he was so funny:
OK that first rep was cracking me up – he looked at you, nodded, you called his name, he looked at you, nodded…. then went into the red end of the tunnel LOL!!! He was 100% convinced that the cues in the first part of the session were all the straight ahead tunnel entry. He even needed a moment to sit and think about it!He was better in the evening session (short sleeves? Lovely weather, yay!!!) He was sorting it out but he did give you a total “what the heck” moment at 2:04 and 2:34 LOL! He is very expressive 🙂
He was better on the reps where you were moving towards the right side of the screen (on your left side) but I am not sure why LOL!!!So… a couple of ideas for ya!
For the next session, you can turn the ‘obvious’ end of the tunnel away so it is less obvious (it would be a backside tunnel entry so he would have to work harder to find it) and the threadle entry would be the easier one to see.The other thing I suggest is taking the tunnel threadle verbal off for a session and just going to his name: when you want the obvious end, you would be using a tunnel verbal. When you want the non-obvious threadley end, for now say his name and reward him lots and lots for going past the obvious end (first with it turned away, then you can gradually turn it forward again so he gets rewarded for passing it. On these rewards, he does not have to go into the other end of the tunnel – just pass the obvious end (the name call does not cue the other end of the tunnel). As soon as he builds value for passing the delicious obvious end in this context, then we can add back the threadle cue to come in the back out.
Let me know if that makes sense – I think he will sort it out really quickly 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
She is really blossoming into an awesome teammate! You have done a great job building the understanding with a high rate of success – you and Eden already had a great ‘relationship’ in life and now you have transferred it to sport. So cool!!!!! She is really a great example of why I love the breed.
>> Should we be giving our wrap cue when we ask them to wrap the jump? I didn’t hear it in the video but might have missed it. I did at least remember to use it to start.>>
Yes – when you have the wrapping behavior the way you want it based on the handling, you can add the verbal. I didn’t add the verbal in the demo video because I had no idea if I was going to be able to get it with my pup LOL!! I didn’t want to say the verbal and then be crappy in my handling and have him launch or turn the wrong way 🙂 The verbal in the wing wrap to start it is perfect!
Your connection is looking really good here – you caught yourself looking too far forward of her on the very first rep, then you nailed it each time.
The go reps look really good, she is opening up and driving ahead so nicely!
With the wraps: Vizslas have a MASSIVE stride (as you know :)) so the timing of the transition of the decel is pretty early.At :14 the transition started as she was taking off, so she was already committed to jumping long plus she had just gotten a reinforcement for the Go, so I think she was looking for the same thing.
At :21 was when she was in the middle between the wing and jump when you started it, so the turn was already tighter. Same with :32 and :40, and you helped her to not back jump, which was a good move. When she has more experience with the collection, I don’t think the back jump will be an issue at all (plus when the bars are higher, it will be easier to wrap than to back jump).When you switched sides, the first go was really good and I think she was just expecting another one at :51. That is just lack of experience on her part 🙂 The last 2 reps were LOVELY! Your transition was earlier and you were rotated before she got to the wing – fabulous collection and she never thought about back jumping. Perfect!!! That seems to be the sweet spot of the transition for now – but as the bars go higher and as she gets even more speed going, your decel will likely have to start sooner. With my big dogs, I think of the exit of the wing wrap as the landing from the previous jump: run hard til she gets around the wing but then decel as soon as she is around it. That gives the big-strided dogs time to collect. On course, the big striders usually land, take one stride, then take off: so we need to tell them about the collection when the land so they can adjust the stride to add the collection.
On those last 2 reps – the behavior is ready for you to add the wrap verbal.
>> I opted to reward everything.
Yes, that was smart! On this game in particular, her response is entirely contingent on the accuracy of your handling. So since there is a possibility that you were late, reward all of her responses like you did because she was accurately reflecting what she was seeing. Also, placement of reinforcement after the cue helps strengthen the response to the cue, even if the response is not perfect when you reward.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
>>My other dogs haven’t seemed to be bothered by my way of doing this, so it’s good I can keep my handling consistent.>>
It looked clear to Keiko and to me, there was a big difference in the cues – and it brings a lot more sanity to running multiple dogs when you can run them all with the same cues, rather than trying to have different cues for each 🙂
T
Hi!
Oh yes, these were much earlier! I like to freeze the takeoff spot of the dog to see what the handler is doing: at :04 just before she took off, you were almost done with the blind. That allowed you to make a clear connection when she landed and she drove to the line tight and fast! I think you were even earlier at :11.
Same on the FCs at :20 and :28 – as she was taking off, you were basically finished with the FC and so she turned tight and your connected allowed her to really drive to the next line.All of the timing here was spot on! Her commitment is strong like you mentioned, so you can keep playing with how early you can do them like this. The timing will be even easier when she is at full height as an adult dog, because she will actually have to be in the air for a while 🙂 Blinds are hard to trust but the payoff is huge when we get them done on course – positionally, a blind cross can provide a tremendous advantage on course!
About the arms on the get out – I don’t see a problem here, it was pretty clear to her (and to me too LOL!). I think it is clear AND it matches what you are doing with your other dog, plus you are making great connection, so it is going well and you won’t have any problems with it like that 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
I agree about the name being saved for important attention situations 🙂 She did really well with just the one big step back. You were a tiny bit early stepping back with your right leg on the first part of the video, so she was not as fast. When you switched to your left leg stepping back a little later, she drove in better (like on the last rep) – I think when you step back early, she is not sure which side of the wing because the leg could be indicating either in that position. When you hold position til she is closer to your hand, the step back is very clear so she can go fast 🙂
Nice work!!!
TracyHi!
Nemo on the ground does indeed cause some excitement LOL!!!
And yes, trying to train the puppy while distracted can often lead to crazy outcomes LOL!The first run looked good! He started off a little unconvinced going to the first tunnel (was Nemo already on the ground? Is it crazy that your toys have names? LOL!!) But then he picked up steam – great job on the blind and FC after it!!! When you were driving him to the last tunnel, your were looking a little ahead and pointing, which turned your body away to the center of tunnel and broke connection a bit, so he was not as sure there.
Note the difference in your connection on the tunnel commitment at :19 – he drove right to it. At :24, I see the hesitation – I think he saw you rotate early and saw you change hands with the reward, so that drew his attention upwards. I think the timing was good, so he was just thinking about whether or not to commit with countermotion. So keep the rotation early but throw the reward to the landing side/exit of the wing there to support the commitment. Then he was looking up at you a bit on the line to the next wing as you were looking ahead – you got stronger connection on the rest of it and he drove beautifully!
At :37 he pulled off the tunnel as you started the blind – maybe you needed to start him further back for more momentum? The timing of the blind is fine there, so you can also throw reward to the exit of the tunnel more frequently for a bit – it is possible that the value has shifted to you (and away from value on lines).
He committed gorgeously to the wrap at :46 with a lot of Countermotion though but then did not commit on virtually the same timing (turning to his right) but OMG he was a GOOD GOD BOY to go get the wing at :50! Maybe the commitment is also showing a side preference? Is left stronger than right for him on turns? I can’t remember LOL! He also had a question turning to his right at :55 and at 1:16. But no question turning it his left at 1:05.So unless I missed something… ALL of his questions involved right turns and his left turn commitment was pretty fab. Now, it could have been the distraction of the Nemo outside the ring revealing a slight side preference. I don’t think you were pointing ahead too much except for the one tunnel early on – if it was that, he would have questions equally on both sides 🙂 I think he has a left side preference for now, so you can revisit throwing reinforcement out on the line on right turns or right lead tunnel entries, doing countermotion but not with as much speed. That will shift the value back to the line and balance out the side preference.
At :49 and :55 you were doing a legit handling move! It was a spin or ketchsker or jaakko turn – it is legit enough to have 3 names LOL!
Nice work here – let me know if you are also seeing the right versus left preference, and if you can remember which side he has preferred before?
Tracy
Hi!
Good to know that you got him wilder before the jumps (yay!) and he didn’t lose his head or his form (double yay!!!!!)Set point: as soon as he realized the tunnel was in play… a whole different ball game LOL! He was surprised at first but then he definitely powered his hind end differently. My guess is the possibility of continuing up the line gives him a reason to use his hind end on the set point jump more. The toy is exciting and all, but the mechanics needed to be different because he was going to keep moving. So he changed the mechanics and i don’t see any hind end kick up either. Perfect! The focus forward will percolate – he isn’t used to doing this with no reward target out ahead, so he just needs to see it more. I am happy with how he used his rear here!
Ladder – he was looking at you a little on the first reps especially when he was on your left so the tunnel was not as obvious on that side. Then the joy of the ball on the ground is it being kicked, so he stopped short. I think his form was fine, he just wasn’t seeing what to drive to. So……. let’s add to it! I am 99% sure that you running won’t be a problem. Add in your running to the tunnel (slow run haha) and then you can do little sequences, like tunnel – 3 jump ladder – wing wrap – 3 jump ladder – tunnel. Wheeee! That will challenge his balance and striding more but because he is not a lunatic, I think he will sort it out nicely AND it will give him more reason to power through it. My Voodoo dog is the same way: he does grids like this as if he is a little bored (maybe he is) and kinda looking at me. But when it is a faster-moving, more-complex puzzle: much better! The difference is that Voodoo loses his head sometimes and I don’t think Kaladin will 🙂
About the locked in bars: for the regular ladder like here, you can unlock them. I don’t think he is touching them at all. For the running versions and the mini sequences – leave them locked in until you know he is going to be fine. That could be one more session or 10 more depending on how he does (I lean towards the 1 more session or maybe 2, he rises to every challenge we throw at him!!)
Great job!
TracyHi again!
The dogs give us feedback on our cues: tight turn means we are doing good stuff 🙂 I think she wears happy with your info!!!! Her wrap turns were really just about perfect and the GO looked like she was in extension, understanding the difference.
When she was on your left for the first part of the video: It might not feel like there is decel because your window for decelerating is short 🙂 She makes decisions early LOL! That is a good thing because it shows confidence and understanding 🙂 Her turns were good at :04 and :09 and even better at :18. You can make is feel like more decel by driving away from the wing more rather than being a little more decelerated as she was coming around. Your rotations were nice and early, and she showed *fabulous* commitment understanding to see the info that early and take the jump in collection. LOVED it!
When you changed sides so she was on your right (turning to her left) – that first rep was the only one on this video that had you really accelerating but then slamming on the brakes: so she read it as a rear cross (you might have been pressuring into the line as you rotated a bit too). You fixed it really well on there next rep: you made sure you moved towards the wrap wing and had one or two steps of decel before you rotated. She had a great turn at :37! Plus great commitment: you were already moving away when she took off (lovely connection, by the way!) Same good job on your next rep. The decel is there (I can see you going from big steps to little steps) but you only have time for 2 steps of decel before you needed to rotate. It worked really well for her!
The GO reps were strong too – I think the bar on the first rep was a bit of distraction from the toy being thrown? Both she was great on the others.Lovely work!!! Tracy
i!
Oh yes, she is totally getting the idea to put herself back out after the in in!!!! It looks like you are holding the in in cue til she turns her head to the jump then relaxing it and moving forward: perfect 🙂
She had a bit of trouble coming in for it on some reps – I think that was because the physical cue was happening at the same time as the verbal and she was already locked onto the other side of the jump. So one small change: while she is holding her sit, show the physical cue (it looked very good!) for 2 or 3 seconds – then say the in in verbal. You will have to ‘gently’ move into the position so she doesn’t release as you strike your pose 🙂 But seeing it before the release will help her find it more easily.
The tunnel sends looked great 🙂 Nice work!Tracy
Yay! Keep me posted – I think that is the element that will get the RCs smoother. His great send skills are likely to allow you to send and get a blind or a front cross but I know he will also be able to leave you in the dust, so you’re gonna need those rears too 🙂
Tracy
Wow, well done on that first sequence! And bonus points for the pants!!!
Good job starting it just like you would have to at a trial – you immediately “grabbed” her attention and then sent her to the tunnel entry. Solid connection and clear cues!!
And dare I say it… NICE REAR CROSS on the purple jump!!! Wheee!!
Great connection throughout too 🙂So obsessing on why it was so hard to get her to the tunnel entry again – I think she reads that based on your shoulders. On the first rep when she got it (first sequence) you turned your shoulders to the tree on the right side of the screen. Then stepped out and didn’t step back to the tunnel until she was on the line to the correct entry.
On the oopsie reps at :14 and :19, you had your shoulders turned softly towards her so she read it as ‘take the tunnel straight ahead’. At :24 you did a more dramatic rotation towards her so she totally responded but then you stepped back to the tunnel too soon, she was on the line to the end of the tunnel that she took.
So you can try more of what you did on the first rep: Pull away, turning your shoulders away to draw her past the wrong end of the tunnel – staying in motion if needed – then send her back to it (the dreaded “patience” haha) when she is clearly on the line towards it and not near the line to the wrong end of the tunnel.Let me know what you think! Everything else looks great!
Tracy
