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Hi!
>> 1. Do we do one run thru on the regular grid prior to introducing the progressive grid in the same session or just go right to the progressive grid?
I would go right to the progressive grid. I don’t want to start a session by getting him into the rhythm of the other grid then change it. Also, you can begin the progressive grid by back chaining it – start in the last interval then work your way back to the beginning – to help him scope it if needed.
>>Benni was working at a 4.5′ ladder grid distance but if I use that as the starting point for the progressive grid, that means the last grid spacing would be 6′ assuming I increment by 6″ in the progression. 6′ sounds like a lot for him to bounce or not? As you remember he got ahead of himself at the 5’spacing I had tried before. I was thinking maybe to try 4′ – 4.5′ – 5′ – 5.5′ at first. What do you think?
Yes, I would start with increasing the intervals by 6 inches for now and see how it goes. At some point in the future, I think a 6 foot interval will be fine but definitely work up to it in the 6 inch intervals.
T
Hi! I would not show the other grid first, as he will come into it expecting the same distances. Hie might expect it anyway, but if there is a couple of days between sessions then he is more likely to think about it rather than go on what he did a few seconds before.
T
Hi again! She did really well on these jumping games!
On the grids:
She seems to really be liking the power she is feeling on these! Wheeee! Happy girl 🙂3 jumps –
You can be calmer on the grids LOL! We want the grids to be relatively sedate. On these, start her closer she to the first jump (so she takes off immediately for it and doesn’t take a stride coming into it) – she is so far back and is coming in with a lot of speed, so she is getting off balance – you can see it in the slow motion when her butt gets higher than her shoulders on the last jump. Your placement at the end is good but have the toy on the ground – you can drop it as you release so you don’t have to lean over, as the leaning over might encourage too much speed on the grid.4 jumps – you were calmer so she was more balanced 🙂 As with the 3 jump grid, start her really close to the 1st jump and try to have the toy on the ground. She is doing well on these!
On the tunnel- go game – try stretching the tunnel out and running in deeper to it, so she drives ahead even more – you were getting ahead with no place to go, so you were a decelerated a bit. Even if you are ahead, keep moving so she knows she is allowed to accelerate.
Overall, she is a really nice job on these!!! At the end when you were more ahead, she struggled a bit with finding the line. To help her, try more connection (dog side arm back, looking at her eyes a bit more and holding the toy toy in opposite arm so it is less visible. When we aren’t connected enough, the dogs will often come off the line and lock onto the toy, which I think is what was happening here. You connection was a lot stronger on last rep and she picked up the jump! Having the toy in the other hand will allow you to throw it while maintaining connection.Nice work here!
TracySo, in a bizarre testament to the times we are living in, I totally watched this video and responded yesterday… but clearly only in my head. Oopsie! Sorry! Poor Wilson wanted the chance to try it too!
Demi was really driven for this game, and it was hard to tell what she was going to do until you released her LOL!! Keeps you on your toes.
The first couple of reps were really good then she got too caught in the moment and went directly to the toy. No biggie LOL! She was perfect on the next rep (but grabbed the toy on the next one LOL!). The toy is now really high value (yay!) so you can use a lower value toy (or an empty food bowl then toss a treat into it. In a away, I think it is super fun that she is loving her toy play so much!!! Your last couple of reps were really good, you really emphasized your serp hand. Good job moving her around the angles – keep playing with this – it iss building the serps, yes, but also helping to proof the stay, build more impulse control AND get her pumped up for agility 🙂
Nice job!
TracyHi!
Your minny pinny is going well – yes, remembering the darned words is the hardest part !!! You can start to fade out your body cues and move less an less, making up little ‘sequences’ on the pinny to do on verbals alone!Nice job on the rear crosses, what a good girl to go to the tunnel when asked, and turn towards the jump on the rear crosses! Yay! On a couple of the rear crpss reps, you were a little late showing pressure on the line between the jumps, so she ended up a little wide. You can get on the diagonal right as you pass the wing of the first jump (drive in deeper to the tunnel if you need to so you don’t get too far ahead). That will turn her a bit tighter, putting the last jump more squarely on her line. By being a little late, she jumps more on the center of the bar of the RC jump and landed wide, and it too green to save you by picking up the next jump 🙂 The GO reps looked totally different, which is good!
The decel rep went well (there was only 1) but you were connected and she didn’t duck behind you 🙂
Nice work here!
TracyUgh, I saw that winter was causing problems!!!! No worries, we will be here when you get free time and sunshine 🙂 Thanks for the update!
Hi!
The video definitely gives us insight into what he needs! I would for sure run a timer on each session so you don’t go for too long – otherwise it becomes like drilling and he loses interest. Set a timer for 2 minutes, tops! And finish when the timer goes off, or before it.Also, a couple of other ideas – it looks like the Manners Minder is not that stimulating, so use it in places where you are moving more and want him to be more interested in your position, like on the decel games. And a toy is a good reward for the threadle games.
And, count failures. One failure? ok, not big deal… but when you get a second failure in the same session (doesn’t have to be in a row, just the 2nd one) then you need to break it down and reward smaller pieces so you don’t lose him. There were a few times where the failure rate got high so he lost focus. And, after a failure, you can keep the rate of reinforcement high by finding other things to reward – such as a hand touch or a sit in front of the jump when you line up again.
On the wing wraps, you can show the physical wrap cue sooner and run more, I think he would like that! The go was hard because that 2nd jump was pretty far away and you were behind (or caught behind a wing on some of them) so you can move that 2nd jump in closer to help him out with the go. He did well with his go when you were slightly ahead! Ideally, the 2 jumps will be about 6 feet apart so you can get the go without having to move much. He also really liked the toy reward.
One other thing – try to never disconnect or turn your back on him after an error. You were probably thinking about resetting him, but the the dogs all read that as negative punishment and they lose motivation (2:15 is a good example). So if something goes wrong, stay engaged an make it fun to reset.
On the threadle – try standing completely still and using fewer words – there was a lot going on here in terms of movement and also verbals. You can use the cross arm, but show it and use your threadle verbal to release then be still – you had a lot of words going like OK his name, Right Here, go get it while you were also steering with physical cues so it was harder for him to focus in on one thing. You can be loud and move a lot after he gets to the reward. This was where he wasn’t all that excited by the Manners Minder, but he definitely liked the toy better! And after an error, you can reward him for sitting in his line up spot or do a couple of tricks as you move back to it (for treats) so he stays engaged and not stressed.
The decel game is hard, so it is a good place to use the Manners Minder as a less exciting distraction. He definitely did not like be chased or grabbed when he was wrong (based on his behaviors after it, he found it pretty icky!), so the MM as the distraction will be great because you can just call him back and not have to touch him. Starting him furhter from the distraction was definitely helpful – and I think you can lure this a few times as well – have the treat already in your hand when you are standing still – then show it to him right after you release him. This game is a really good one for remember the 2 failure rule to break it down and keep him engaged.
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
Nice job on these, but he did seem to be telling you that you were doing too many reps on each thing so there wasn’t enough excitement. One thing you can do is ste up your training field like a class, with different stations. And move through each station by doing 2 or 3 reps, then a little play, then next station. That way you get plenty of training in without too many reps in one place. Alternate fast and wild games in with the more stationary or difficult games to be able to keep him engaged -and do 1 minute on a station, then play, then take a break, then go to the next one, and so on. If you have 3 stations set up, you can get a whole lot done in 5 minutes!On the decel games – he did seem to like the lotus ball on a rope and he also liked the MM out there. He did really well! The only time he didn’t read it was when he was already passed you by the time you decelerated, so it was too late.
On the wing wrapping, he did well here! He definitely looked at the distraction jump like it was a crazy thing! Yes, remember the correct wrap verbals (I feel your pain on that one :)) and you don’t need to say OK to get him started, you can gently hold him or jazz him up, them start the verbal cue. I think at this point he is ready for more speed and action – send into the wrap and run out of it and see what he does 🙂
The threadle is also going well, the position is great just hold it until he gets to the reward (don’t close your shoulders forward, you will want to keep them open on course). And yes, you can totally balance it after one or two reps – or run over to a different station to work on Go or serpentines. I think he is doing well on his threadle understanding, so you can add in more angles. If he can does those, you can add in slowly moving after the release and see if he can still threadle with the distraction of motion.
Nice job!!
TracyHi!
Swing and turn are looking really good! A couple of little details:
he thinks your praise cues (like YES!) are cues for reinforcement, so he tends to stop when you praise – so for now, just keep saying the verbal and save the party for afterwards 🙂 But do build in quiet praise to mark a behavior so he can keep going without stopping (picture this on weave poles, a “yes” to mark an entry but he should continue to weave).Also, when sending him through the MP twice, you can now stand still (now shoulder turn needed) – just keep saying swing or turn, and he should keep turning and go back into the pinwheel. Eventually you’ll be able to do it from a chair 🙂
Yay, the rear crosses are looking really good! You are driving a nice diagonal and he is really getting speedy on that line! Yeah! And good verbals going too! My only suggestion is for you to keep moving out of the rear cross – you were slowing down and standing still, which should be a cue to turn – but he was powering out way ahead to the next jump. I think it is good that he was powering out, but remember to keep moving so your motion supports it and he doesn’t ignore decel.
Great job!
TracyHi!
On the set point, he stepping in great but a little head-up, hind end high over the bar. It could be a couple of reasons. It might be that he isn’t really driving to the reward, or the bar is too high or the distance is too short. So, try 4 feet, 6 inch bar for now, and a toy as a reward so we can see if we can get him to round in his form and stay more balanced.
About the verbals on the decel game:
>>Soshana was teaching it to us as a bypass verbal as in “come directly to my side and do not take any obstacles until I tell you”Based on the game Soshana’s bypass game, your SU cue is NOT what I would use here. The decel on the flat game is just designed to help the puppy read body language. and the bypass game is more specific for when body language is faded out (don’t take anything). We will be building the decel game into turns on a jump in MaxPup 4, so the verbals will be your wrap verbals but those apply only to jumps or tunnels. But since there is nothing to wrap here, just use his name or don’t say anything at all – it is a body language game.
>> Since I have chosen to use “switch” for a rear cross…maybe I’m over-thinking this but…say I’m doing dog on left for “right” mini pinny and then I want dog to take jump 1 and go left to the MM reward from my left side…is that not considered a rear cross
If you are moving, it depends on what your body language is – does he turn away from you? If you are totally standing still, you should probably use the switch to contrast with the directional which means to turn towards you.
>> I guess the dog should “know” right and left no matter what side of you they are on in the case of the dog being too far ahead of you in which case then maybe “switch” might not work?
Correct – that is why I use left and right, rather than anything that implies towards or away from me.
On the videos:
He did well generally ignoring the MM on the ground! He turns better to his right but that might have just been about the placement of the MM 🙂
You did the little FC here so left was appropriate at the end of it to get the 2nd turn. Try it with no movement!2nd video
Turning better left here so it was clearly the MM placement that was a distraction 🙂
When he freezes, I think he was just struggling to figure out how to make the MM triggers. You can call him and help him, but also take it as a sign that the session has gone on too long (or too many sessions of the same thing) so end the session shortly after. There were definitely some noises in the environment that might have been distracting, but he could have also been losing focus from too many reps. The mini pinny doesn’t need to be done that many times to get the idea, so you can keep it fresh with just a couple of reps on each side.3rd video – go looked good on the first rep, but try not to have a lure of target out ahead – we want him t read it on body language.
The rear crosses look really strong! Your 2nd and 3rd RC in particular were timely and clear and he read them really well! Note how he really drives ahead so nicely!!!!4th video –
the first rear cross was really late, you ran forward until he was taking off for jump 2 then you cut in – so he read it as best he could. Reward anyway! You walked away to reset, but you will always want to acknowledge his effort and reward.The 2nd RC was too early now – you started cutting in when he landed from jump 1, so he turned on the flat. 3rd rep have more moving forward but not enough pressure on the line. The next one at :32 and also :41 were better, but I think what is happening is that you are too far ahead, so you are pulling to the straight line then flicking him away, rather than driving up the diagonal. So he is jumping to his right on the 1st jump then center of the bar on the RC jump.
If you drive more into the tunnel, you will be able to drive forward and put pressure on the line for a clearer RC. This is what you were doing on the first video on the last 2 reps.Nice work!!
TracyGood morning!
>>She is definitely more engaged when we play with toys. I think she is more engaged when I tug with her, but that usually only happens if I reward her with the toy from my hand. If I toss it, she wants to play keep away. When she comes to me, I usually trade her a treat for the toy. She also disengages after failure and when I am trying to mentally regroup.>>
This is pretty normal and I think every one of my pups has done this LOL! A couple of ideas:
– yes, keep rewarding with the toy from you hand, she totally loves it 🙂
– when you do want to reward with a tossed toy: tie it to another long toy or light leash so when you toss it, you can keep squiggling it along the ground or let her pounce on it, then pull it in and let her tug like a fiend. And sometimes do let her take it for a victory lap – then reward with a treat for coming back – then let her have it back for another victory lap 🙂
– when she does bring the toy back, don’t take it away right away – play then cookie then play more – she might be avoiding bringing it back because you are too quick to take it away and ask for more “work” 🙂
– after failure: you don’t need to reward the error, but you can keep her engaged by rewarding a hand touch or trick or something as you go back to reset for the next rep – and it buys you time to mentally regroup because she can be chasing a cookie in your hand while you are thinking about what to do next.Rear cross video:
the first rear cross at the beginning was a little late but great job rewarding in the right spot anyway!
The 2nd rear cross (:14) was perfection. Woot!!I see a bit of the disengagement after the oopsie on the tunnel after the 2nd rep. You can call her back, give her a treat or a tug, then reset – it was a little handling error (lack of connection) but even if it wasn’t no big deal, you can do a trick then reward then resend her.
She had a bit more trouble on the RCs on the bigger sequence – partially because she was all like “I AM GOING FAST FAST FAST” and partially because you were a little late at first and partially because she doesn’t understand them yet LO!!!! But – I am thrilled with the I AM GOING FAST FAST FAST and also great job continuing to reward in the right spot (praise anyway, you don’t need an oopsie cue :)). You can put a little more pressure on her line, starting the RC a little sooner – but keep rewarding it and she will pair the pressure with the reward placement and be able to execute the rear cross without losing the FAST FAST FAST element that is so awesome 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know if it makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
The jump grids are looking nice and smooth now, she is stepping in really nicely, isn’t rushing, and is staying balanced! Yay! Moving to 5 jumps is next up – and my only suggestion is to have the reward another 3 feet past the last jump (I know, picky picky LOL!) so she can land and take a galloping step to it rather than immediately trotting. That can get even more power in the last interval.
>>Also the threadle. I ended up spending a couple minutes working thru her not releasing to my hand being extended. Should I say “free” before I say INININ? How do they know if we’re proofing them or telling them it’s ok to move?
Great job building value for NOT releasing on the hand motion!!!! And no – just use IN IN. In In is a release word in this context and it gives specific info earlier than Free-In-In. Free as a release generally implies the front side of the jump, and In In is very specific to the threadle. When you are standing still it probably won’t make a huge difference… it is when we are running that it becomes important. Picture this: you are running a course and the jump *after* the teeter is a threadle to the backside of it. You are in motion the whole time, she is stopped on the teeter. If you say “free” – she will make a choice based on your motion (and probably take the wrong side, because if I wanted the front of the jump in that exact context, I would absolutely say free). If you say In In, she releases and comes to the threadle side, no questions asked. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂 It is clear in my mind but I have only had 2 cups of coffee so far, so my use of English is not great yet LOL!
I think there were only 2 reps o on the video of the in in? On the first one, she is totally getting it! On the second one, she was TOTALLY getting it and broke the stay 🙂 So you can pitch treats back to her for holding the stay as you assume the position.
I also suggest pitches treats back to her for staying while you walk all the way around the jump using threadle body language (but not releasing) because we are going to want to add movement to this – where you move *then* release. But we want the stay super solid first, we don’t want her to be an overachiever on this yet LOL!>>Deceleration was an epic fail, LOL!!! When I rewatched the video, i look pissed. I really wasn’t and I don’t think she cared either way. She also could have cared less I was standing still.
I read this before watching the video, and then I expected catastrophic results complete with her taking victory laps LOL! It was not an epic fail – the session was more like “almost good” 🙂 She made good choices on the first 2 steps of each release on the first couple of reps… so get the reward in sooner for now. You don’t have to wait til she gets to you like you did at :37. If you release and she takes a step towards you – present the reward. You can build success and within a few sessions you will be able to delay the reward. But this is a good start!
The rear crosses looked really good!!! You can drive deeper into the first tunnel so you can accelerate more – but she did a great job of driving ahead on her line. You can use the 2nd tunnel (since you have one :)) to drive her straight and then add another jump for the rear cross.
Nice work here!!!
TracyHello there!
>>OMG!! I need help on the decel!! You know my dog that doesn’t really like toys as much as food? Well I decided to use a lotus ball. Taught him to get to the treat and then took it to my course. He loves it – doesn’t get the treat out but just runs off with it or tugs with me with it.
I love how the pups are always tossing curveballs at us LOL!!! So he loves the lotus ball as a toy, not a treat holder? LOL!
>> So, I tried the decel game. First rep, looked at me and I sent to the l.b. Second rep zoomed past me straight to the thing. I moved it further and me closer, nope, and though if I move and stop dead maybe – nope. I eventually put a treat in my hand and he ran wide of me to get the toy. I did a rep of toy race so he could see the difference, nope. Then I went to a different toy. He came to me but would NOT go to the toy. So, the good thing is he’s never returned a toy to me on my field but he fetched like a champ with the lotus ball by the end. Ideas?
You can work it 2 ways: first, conceptually with an empty food bowl. I am sure the food bowl alone has enough value to be at least a low level distraction and you can toss the treat into it when you want him to drive ahead. You can also use other things that are medium/low value, such as a prop that you’ve shaped him to go to (like a perch or a box or a wobble board?).
For the lotus ball – try showing it to him and then putting it in a tupperware so it is visible but not grabbable. Make sure it is a big enough container that he cannot also pick up the container and run around with it LOL!!! And when he decels to you, reward with a giant jackpot from your hand (hidden at first) and then after the jackpot, drive forward to the container, open it, deliver lotus ball. And sometimes drive right to the container to open it and give him the lotus ball 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! I am glad he likes the lotus ball so much!!
TracyHi! That is a great accidental discovery… Shane as distraction! Yes, it is important to work through it, more important than any of the other games 🙂 You can do stuff like sending him through a tunnel to just chase you on the flat, while Shane is sitting nearby as ring crew. You can build it up to Shane moving, talking, swinging toys, etc 🙂 Fun!
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>> I did try the tunnel decel game and he was getting it but I did not record it yet. Just to clarify, what is acceptable performance on this… if the dog passes me but then stops himself and comes back is that not showing understanding? Is the dog supposed to just come right to me as I either stand still or move and then decel/stop? There is no verbal cue associated with this right?>>
In the beginning stages, it is fine if he catches himself and then comes back. Over the course of several different sessions, you can up the ante and use medium value rewards for those ‘catch himself’ moments and jackpot when he drives right to you (which is the end goal). I wouldn’t add a verbal til he drives to you on the physical cue alone – then it can be a ‘with me’ verbal or his name. On a jump, the verbal will eventually be the directional.
>>I have always used the word “switch” for my rear crosses meaning change lead and take the next obstacle you see versus “turn” for the dog to turn away from me on the flat and then look for the obstacle. Is “switch ” okay to use for the rear cross?
Yes, that will work, but I think it might mean more “turn away from me over a jump” because not all lead changes mean rear cross?
On the videos:
I think the set point bars are set up a little too far from the jump, so he is having trouble stepping in – the guide poles are creating a relatively small opening get through, so he has to jump the opening – that might be why he went around it on the first rep and he as a bit upright on the next reps. The distance doesn’t have to be 4.5 on a set point, so you can change the position of the guide poles the they are more of a visual guide and less of jump, if that makes sense. 3 feet or 3.5 feet between where the poles meet should be fine for now, and the guide poles will be at a more relaxed angle so he can step in and set for the jump, rather than jump in and jump again.>>Let me know if I should repeat this and how much of it to do prior to starting to do sequencing at this height…or does he look fine and I don’t need to repeat this exercise until we bump up to 12″ eventually?
Repeat it a bit to get it comfortable – and then revisit it once a week or once every 10 days. If he is doing jump work every 2 or 3 days (which is really the maximum puppy should do) then a few reps of this would be on the rotation every 3 sessions or so. It is a great warm up tool to use for a couple of reps to remind the pup of form.
The ladder grid is looking really good!!! Nice and balanced, coordinated and quick throughout without losing his balance at all. Very nice!!!
Good work!
Tracy
