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Hi!
Swing and turn are looking really good! A couple of little details:
he thinks your praise cues (like YES!) are cues for reinforcement, so he tends to stop when you praise – so for now, just keep saying the verbal and save the party for afterwards 🙂 But do build in quiet praise to mark a behavior so he can keep going without stopping (picture this on weave poles, a “yes” to mark an entry but he should continue to weave).Also, when sending him through the MP twice, you can now stand still (now shoulder turn needed) – just keep saying swing or turn, and he should keep turning and go back into the pinwheel. Eventually you’ll be able to do it from a chair 🙂
Yay, the rear crosses are looking really good! You are driving a nice diagonal and he is really getting speedy on that line! Yeah! And good verbals going too! My only suggestion is for you to keep moving out of the rear cross – you were slowing down and standing still, which should be a cue to turn – but he was powering out way ahead to the next jump. I think it is good that he was powering out, but remember to keep moving so your motion supports it and he doesn’t ignore decel.
Great job!
TracyHi!
On the set point, he stepping in great but a little head-up, hind end high over the bar. It could be a couple of reasons. It might be that he isn’t really driving to the reward, or the bar is too high or the distance is too short. So, try 4 feet, 6 inch bar for now, and a toy as a reward so we can see if we can get him to round in his form and stay more balanced.
About the verbals on the decel game:
>>Soshana was teaching it to us as a bypass verbal as in “come directly to my side and do not take any obstacles until I tell you”Based on the game Soshana’s bypass game, your SU cue is NOT what I would use here. The decel on the flat game is just designed to help the puppy read body language. and the bypass game is more specific for when body language is faded out (don’t take anything). We will be building the decel game into turns on a jump in MaxPup 4, so the verbals will be your wrap verbals but those apply only to jumps or tunnels. But since there is nothing to wrap here, just use his name or don’t say anything at all – it is a body language game.
>> Since I have chosen to use “switch” for a rear cross…maybe I’m over-thinking this but…say I’m doing dog on left for “right” mini pinny and then I want dog to take jump 1 and go left to the MM reward from my left side…is that not considered a rear cross
If you are moving, it depends on what your body language is – does he turn away from you? If you are totally standing still, you should probably use the switch to contrast with the directional which means to turn towards you.
>> I guess the dog should “know” right and left no matter what side of you they are on in the case of the dog being too far ahead of you in which case then maybe “switch” might not work?
Correct – that is why I use left and right, rather than anything that implies towards or away from me.
On the videos:
He did well generally ignoring the MM on the ground! He turns better to his right but that might have just been about the placement of the MM 🙂
You did the little FC here so left was appropriate at the end of it to get the 2nd turn. Try it with no movement!2nd video
Turning better left here so it was clearly the MM placement that was a distraction 🙂
When he freezes, I think he was just struggling to figure out how to make the MM triggers. You can call him and help him, but also take it as a sign that the session has gone on too long (or too many sessions of the same thing) so end the session shortly after. There were definitely some noises in the environment that might have been distracting, but he could have also been losing focus from too many reps. The mini pinny doesn’t need to be done that many times to get the idea, so you can keep it fresh with just a couple of reps on each side.3rd video – go looked good on the first rep, but try not to have a lure of target out ahead – we want him t read it on body language.
The rear crosses look really strong! Your 2nd and 3rd RC in particular were timely and clear and he read them really well! Note how he really drives ahead so nicely!!!!4th video –
the first rear cross was really late, you ran forward until he was taking off for jump 2 then you cut in – so he read it as best he could. Reward anyway! You walked away to reset, but you will always want to acknowledge his effort and reward.The 2nd RC was too early now – you started cutting in when he landed from jump 1, so he turned on the flat. 3rd rep have more moving forward but not enough pressure on the line. The next one at :32 and also :41 were better, but I think what is happening is that you are too far ahead, so you are pulling to the straight line then flicking him away, rather than driving up the diagonal. So he is jumping to his right on the 1st jump then center of the bar on the RC jump.
If you drive more into the tunnel, you will be able to drive forward and put pressure on the line for a clearer RC. This is what you were doing on the first video on the last 2 reps.Nice work!!
TracyGood morning!
>>She is definitely more engaged when we play with toys. I think she is more engaged when I tug with her, but that usually only happens if I reward her with the toy from my hand. If I toss it, she wants to play keep away. When she comes to me, I usually trade her a treat for the toy. She also disengages after failure and when I am trying to mentally regroup.>>
This is pretty normal and I think every one of my pups has done this LOL! A couple of ideas:
– yes, keep rewarding with the toy from you hand, she totally loves it 🙂
– when you do want to reward with a tossed toy: tie it to another long toy or light leash so when you toss it, you can keep squiggling it along the ground or let her pounce on it, then pull it in and let her tug like a fiend. And sometimes do let her take it for a victory lap – then reward with a treat for coming back – then let her have it back for another victory lap 🙂
– when she does bring the toy back, don’t take it away right away – play then cookie then play more – she might be avoiding bringing it back because you are too quick to take it away and ask for more “work” 🙂
– after failure: you don’t need to reward the error, but you can keep her engaged by rewarding a hand touch or trick or something as you go back to reset for the next rep – and it buys you time to mentally regroup because she can be chasing a cookie in your hand while you are thinking about what to do next.Rear cross video:
the first rear cross at the beginning was a little late but great job rewarding in the right spot anyway!
The 2nd rear cross (:14) was perfection. Woot!!I see a bit of the disengagement after the oopsie on the tunnel after the 2nd rep. You can call her back, give her a treat or a tug, then reset – it was a little handling error (lack of connection) but even if it wasn’t no big deal, you can do a trick then reward then resend her.
She had a bit more trouble on the RCs on the bigger sequence – partially because she was all like “I AM GOING FAST FAST FAST” and partially because you were a little late at first and partially because she doesn’t understand them yet LO!!!! But – I am thrilled with the I AM GOING FAST FAST FAST and also great job continuing to reward in the right spot (praise anyway, you don’t need an oopsie cue :)). You can put a little more pressure on her line, starting the RC a little sooner – but keep rewarding it and she will pair the pressure with the reward placement and be able to execute the rear cross without losing the FAST FAST FAST element that is so awesome 🙂
Nice work here! Let me know if it makes sense!
TracyGood morning!
The jump grids are looking nice and smooth now, she is stepping in really nicely, isn’t rushing, and is staying balanced! Yay! Moving to 5 jumps is next up – and my only suggestion is to have the reward another 3 feet past the last jump (I know, picky picky LOL!) so she can land and take a galloping step to it rather than immediately trotting. That can get even more power in the last interval.
>>Also the threadle. I ended up spending a couple minutes working thru her not releasing to my hand being extended. Should I say “free” before I say INININ? How do they know if we’re proofing them or telling them it’s ok to move?
Great job building value for NOT releasing on the hand motion!!!! And no – just use IN IN. In In is a release word in this context and it gives specific info earlier than Free-In-In. Free as a release generally implies the front side of the jump, and In In is very specific to the threadle. When you are standing still it probably won’t make a huge difference… it is when we are running that it becomes important. Picture this: you are running a course and the jump *after* the teeter is a threadle to the backside of it. You are in motion the whole time, she is stopped on the teeter. If you say “free” – she will make a choice based on your motion (and probably take the wrong side, because if I wanted the front of the jump in that exact context, I would absolutely say free). If you say In In, she releases and comes to the threadle side, no questions asked. Let me know if that makes sense 🙂 It is clear in my mind but I have only had 2 cups of coffee so far, so my use of English is not great yet LOL!
I think there were only 2 reps o on the video of the in in? On the first one, she is totally getting it! On the second one, she was TOTALLY getting it and broke the stay 🙂 So you can pitch treats back to her for holding the stay as you assume the position.
I also suggest pitches treats back to her for staying while you walk all the way around the jump using threadle body language (but not releasing) because we are going to want to add movement to this – where you move *then* release. But we want the stay super solid first, we don’t want her to be an overachiever on this yet LOL!>>Deceleration was an epic fail, LOL!!! When I rewatched the video, i look pissed. I really wasn’t and I don’t think she cared either way. She also could have cared less I was standing still.
I read this before watching the video, and then I expected catastrophic results complete with her taking victory laps LOL! It was not an epic fail – the session was more like “almost good” 🙂 She made good choices on the first 2 steps of each release on the first couple of reps… so get the reward in sooner for now. You don’t have to wait til she gets to you like you did at :37. If you release and she takes a step towards you – present the reward. You can build success and within a few sessions you will be able to delay the reward. But this is a good start!
The rear crosses looked really good!!! You can drive deeper into the first tunnel so you can accelerate more – but she did a great job of driving ahead on her line. You can use the 2nd tunnel (since you have one :)) to drive her straight and then add another jump for the rear cross.
Nice work here!!!
TracyHello there!
>>OMG!! I need help on the decel!! You know my dog that doesn’t really like toys as much as food? Well I decided to use a lotus ball. Taught him to get to the treat and then took it to my course. He loves it – doesn’t get the treat out but just runs off with it or tugs with me with it.
I love how the pups are always tossing curveballs at us LOL!!! So he loves the lotus ball as a toy, not a treat holder? LOL!
>> So, I tried the decel game. First rep, looked at me and I sent to the l.b. Second rep zoomed past me straight to the thing. I moved it further and me closer, nope, and though if I move and stop dead maybe – nope. I eventually put a treat in my hand and he ran wide of me to get the toy. I did a rep of toy race so he could see the difference, nope. Then I went to a different toy. He came to me but would NOT go to the toy. So, the good thing is he’s never returned a toy to me on my field but he fetched like a champ with the lotus ball by the end. Ideas?
You can work it 2 ways: first, conceptually with an empty food bowl. I am sure the food bowl alone has enough value to be at least a low level distraction and you can toss the treat into it when you want him to drive ahead. You can also use other things that are medium/low value, such as a prop that you’ve shaped him to go to (like a perch or a box or a wobble board?).
For the lotus ball – try showing it to him and then putting it in a tupperware so it is visible but not grabbable. Make sure it is a big enough container that he cannot also pick up the container and run around with it LOL!!! And when he decels to you, reward with a giant jackpot from your hand (hidden at first) and then after the jackpot, drive forward to the container, open it, deliver lotus ball. And sometimes drive right to the container to open it and give him the lotus ball 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! I am glad he likes the lotus ball so much!!
TracyHi! That is a great accidental discovery… Shane as distraction! Yes, it is important to work through it, more important than any of the other games 🙂 You can do stuff like sending him through a tunnel to just chase you on the flat, while Shane is sitting nearby as ring crew. You can build it up to Shane moving, talking, swinging toys, etc 🙂 Fun!
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
>> I did try the tunnel decel game and he was getting it but I did not record it yet. Just to clarify, what is acceptable performance on this… if the dog passes me but then stops himself and comes back is that not showing understanding? Is the dog supposed to just come right to me as I either stand still or move and then decel/stop? There is no verbal cue associated with this right?>>
In the beginning stages, it is fine if he catches himself and then comes back. Over the course of several different sessions, you can up the ante and use medium value rewards for those ‘catch himself’ moments and jackpot when he drives right to you (which is the end goal). I wouldn’t add a verbal til he drives to you on the physical cue alone – then it can be a ‘with me’ verbal or his name. On a jump, the verbal will eventually be the directional.
>>I have always used the word “switch” for my rear crosses meaning change lead and take the next obstacle you see versus “turn” for the dog to turn away from me on the flat and then look for the obstacle. Is “switch ” okay to use for the rear cross?
Yes, that will work, but I think it might mean more “turn away from me over a jump” because not all lead changes mean rear cross?
On the videos:
I think the set point bars are set up a little too far from the jump, so he is having trouble stepping in – the guide poles are creating a relatively small opening get through, so he has to jump the opening – that might be why he went around it on the first rep and he as a bit upright on the next reps. The distance doesn’t have to be 4.5 on a set point, so you can change the position of the guide poles the they are more of a visual guide and less of jump, if that makes sense. 3 feet or 3.5 feet between where the poles meet should be fine for now, and the guide poles will be at a more relaxed angle so he can step in and set for the jump, rather than jump in and jump again.>>Let me know if I should repeat this and how much of it to do prior to starting to do sequencing at this height…or does he look fine and I don’t need to repeat this exercise until we bump up to 12″ eventually?
Repeat it a bit to get it comfortable – and then revisit it once a week or once every 10 days. If he is doing jump work every 2 or 3 days (which is really the maximum puppy should do) then a few reps of this would be on the rotation every 3 sessions or so. It is a great warm up tool to use for a couple of reps to remind the pup of form.
The ladder grid is looking really good!!! Nice and balanced, coordinated and quick throughout without losing his balance at all. Very nice!!!
Good work!
TracyGood morning!!! I hope the lovely-looking weather continues for you!!! You are getting good work done. Both of these sessions are on really difficult skills and you made excellent progress here on both.
Rear crosses: this is probably the 2nd hardest handling move we have, because it is a trained cue (a running threadle being the hardest) and I think you are doing well! One thing that was perfect was you consistently rewarded in the correct spot, regardless of if she was perfect or your were perfect… doesn’t matter – because she will learn to pair the cue with the placement and then it will get much easier to cue the RCs.
On the reps:
1st rep – maybe too soon on cutting behind her, it looks like it pushed her off the line – also, go deeper to tunnel so you have more acceleration to drive her ahead.
2nd rep – much better drive ahead and good reward!
3rd rep – very good going deeper to tunnel but then you were too early cutting across behind her. Adding in more reps of GO will get her focusing ahead even better. Maybe a 2:1 ratio of GO:RC will help that? She might go a bit wider on the RC reps (because of all the GO!) but that is fine.
4th rep -getting it!!! Yes!!!!!
5th rep – other side – getting it!!! And gold start for you for getting the blind after the tunnel and also the RC after that!
6th – Almost got it! The rear was a little late, but also a good reward. Keep working it and she will get it.Also, you can add the use verbal left/right cues as that might help her differentiate versus the FO and also help with commitment.
The very last rep got cut off right at the start of it.
Decel games: hot mess is how I describe all of my first sessions on this set of games too! Ha! She did well here! Facing her certainly helps, as it is a really really clear decel LOL! I think you were also giving her a verbal cue on the decel and that is great! (with or something nice and quiet?) The GO on the acceleration was obvious 🙂 Nice job getting it looking so good in just 2 sessions! We build on it in the next couple of days 🙂
Nice work here!!!
TracyGood morning!
>> I’m not sure how much longer we have to post video, so I at least wanted to get feedback on all the exercises.
We have a couple more games on Mon/Wed of next week, then 2 more weeks to post after that.
>>I still have a LOT of homework to do on most of the other ones!
Agility = the sport of never-ending homework LOL! No worries 🙂
Nice work on the videos – good job tackling the new stuff!
He did really well on the decel games, and you even started with a high value distraction! Nice! I agree – many dogs including Robie do better when we place the distraction rather than throw it, because motion is HARD! But he did really well at sorting things out. One thing to add: more reward right on you, from you hand (cookie or a surprise toy) when he comes into you. You are off to a really nice start on building decel value, it will be fun to build it!!!!On the rear crosses – I am super happy with how well this session went! Rear crosses are trained cues and he did really well!!! Blinds and fronts are much easier hahaha!!!
>>On the rear cross, I am certain that my verbals were not terribly timely.
Yes, on the first RC attempt there was too much GO! 🙂 On the 2nd rep, you had the turn cue and it was a little late. 3rd rep seemed spot on! For me, the soft turn cue means “take the jump and turn” so that last rep had it most in that context.
In terms of the physical cues:
The GO rep was really clear & obvious, you can delay the toy throw not until he chooses the 2nd jump (or have Shane throw it at that time LOL!)
The first rep on the rear was pretty strong, he did read the pressure! Yay!
A bit more pressure on that rear cross diagonal was needed on the 2nd rep and slightly earlier verbal.
I think the last rep was pretty timely both in terms of the RC pressure/physical cue and verbal. You can add in waiting for him to pick up the last jump before throwing the reward (or Shane throwing it) and because it is challenging and you are behind him at that point, you can move that last jump onto a pretty natural line so it is super easy for him to pick it up.>>Also, I haven’t really taught him my soft turn cues yet (swing and turn.) In the past I have worked mostly on the tight turn verbals. I taught these originally on the flat, first in front of me and then at my side (turning both ways) and then while walking. Then took that to a wing and eventually a jump. What should I be doing to teach the soft turn cues, mini Pinny?
Yes, I use the mini pinny. I don’t teach them without the “take it then turn” element, so the mini pinny has been really helpful. Plus I slap them on whenever I think my handling will create the turn 🙂
>>But back to the RC, I am thinking it will help tremendously to have SHANE throw the toy for me so I can focus on mechanics and verbals. Will try that later.
Yes! I am sure Shane will be happy to hahahahahaha or not, either way I am sure you can convince him.
OK, here is something that I thought of while watching this and apologies if it makes your head hurt:
When you are running a course and you need his attention, what will his attention word be? Most of us use the dog’s name for attention or a slight turn cue: Voo! G! Ex! Hot!
I am asking because on the video, I couldn’t really tell if you were saying GO or RO (for Robie) to get attention.
So you will need a general name cue on course that doesn’t sound like GO. Perhaps BIE (bee) for the second part of his name?I learned this lesson the hard way years ago with my Rat Terrier, Rebound. I would say “Re!” to call him on course… then when I added weaves to sequencing, I couldn’t figure out why he would always turn at look at me in front of the poles…. turns out that Re and WEave sounded the same. So, I changed the obstacle cue to Poles (in a different volume/tone/pitch than GO!) and we lived happily ever after 🙂
Just something to consider if you haven’t already 🙂T
I saw the snow photos!!!!!!! EEEEKKKK!! We even had a squall here for a minute but nothing stuck. C’mon, Mother Nature, cut us some slack!
Have a good lockdown day to you and the family and dogs and chickens too!Good morning!
Glad you are keeping busy with the class – getting off the couch and off the computer is a great thing in these crazy times.Threadle is really a self-control exercise LOL! For now, let’s take off the verbal cue in in because you are still building the behavior and we don’t want to name it until we have it pretty fully and reliably. Don’t say in in til she can come in and go out without you need to help too much – I add my verbals only when I would bet $100 the dog will do it LOL! For now, just use a release, look at your hand, reward for coming in then send her back out. Looking at the hand really helps. When you are going to send her back out, keep your upper body frozen (don’t turn your upper body towards the reward) to simulate the body position of the threadle she will see when running. As for the self-control element:
You can have the lotus ball empty on the ground so it is less stimulating and more of a target (and so she cannot self-reward if she is faster than you :)), then drop the treat in it (or use a Manners Minder or pet tutor if you have one of those remote devices, or even an empty bowl). Our goal is that she basically pushes you out of the way to do the threadle and never has to look at you.On the discrim set up:
>>Should she be able to do both with me just standing there?Yes, she should be able to do the digdig versus go without you moving. We add motion eventually but the key is a verbal discrimination – my guess is you need to mix in more GO so she realizes it is on the table, and also have a leaned in posture on the dig dig cue – she had trouble with that! Start nice and close and don’t move – to work the verbals 🙂 More of this is coming soon so we can really solidify it all.
Nice work!!!
TracyGood morning!
>>Skye got rewarded for going around jumps
No worries, that is easy to fix in future sessions. I prefer to think of it as he got rewarded for finding lines. In the future, the lines will include more jumps 🙂
>>I think I need to stay further back when he was in the tunnel so he would be farther ahead of me.
Totally yes – run more into the tunnel so you are not as far ahead, that will help for sure.
>>Plus, I use a low gravely voice with him. Why! I should just use a normal voice.
Ha! I think he liked it, it sounded like you were just engaging him verbally and dogs like different tones 🙂
>>But, I think there was at least one that worked well.
Yes, there were several!
On the GO reps, all were really solid except for rep 7 where he was possibly trying to anticipate a left turn. Otherwise, they were all good – just keep running til he gets to the reward. On several of them you were decelerating as you threw the reward, so he ticked the last bar. Support his acceleration by running hard til he arrives at the toy.
On the rear crosses: these are hard and I think they went pretty well! On the first RC (rep 2) you had a good verbal going but not enough pressure on his line (turning right) so he didn’t read it. However, when you went to his left, there were several really good ones (no worries about picking up all the jumps yet) – rep 4 was good to get the line changed and rep 6 looked really good! Rep 11 was also a reallu good one. Rep 12 was late – he didn’t read it until after he landed. So keep up the pressure on the diagonal after he lands from the jump after the tunnel – but make sure you are moving towards the center-ish of the 2nd jump so you don’t push him past it (that would look like a backside push to him.) Try it by running all the way into the tunnel so you have to hurry back out, I bet you find it much easier that way.
Nice work!!!
TracyGood morning!
She did a GREAT job on these, she made it look easy (it is NOT easy LOL!!!!) She was a nut for the toy races but then easily did the deceleration – I am impressed!!!!! Perfect! And her work on the tunnels looked strong too – this bodes well for turning her on course in the future 🙂 I will have to post new games to challenge her, I will put it on the list because she rocked these!!!>>I have noticed that she is getting more disengaged from me and sniffing the ground more lately (I cut these parts out of the video). Sometimes this seems related to me giving her a food reward so I don’t know if she thinks she dropped it. Maybe I just need to keep sessions shorter?
Glad you asked, we want her to be as driven for everything as she was in this video. Do you notice any disengagement when you played with the toys, like you did here? Things to look for to find a pattern – was it food only? How long was the session? Did she have failure(s) before the disengagement?
Sometimes food is a bit of a calmer so we lose the focus and excitement. You can play with the food more – rather than hand it to her, have her spin and chase it in your hand a bit. That can keep her more pumped up.
Let me know what you think and we will try to find a pattern. Great job on the decel games!
TracyGood morning! Sorry for the delay, I somehow managed to miss this! Eek!!
The threadling is off to a really good start!!! The video had a weird optical illusion because he and your pants blended together so it looked like he was running through you LOL!
You broke it down nicely for him so he had a super high rate of success. Yay! Breaking it down to coming in for a hand touch is great to start – no need to add the word (close) til you get the 2nd half of the behavior (go back out) to the ball. When he is coming in, keep your upper body frozen in that open threadle position until he has turned to take the jump – we all want to close our shoulders forward to point to the jump or reward, but keeping the shoulders open will mimic what he’d see on course and also helps convince the dogs to go take the jump 🙂 It will feel weird for sure at this stage! And for the go back out part of it – the reps where the toy was already on the ground were great! The reps where you threw the toy encouraged him to look at you a little too much, so keep that toy out there for a while until he is not wanting to look at you at all. When we add movement, you can give him a little more room between you and the jump – a full arm’s length should be perfect.
When you added the angles – looking good! Keep adding the gradually more difficult angles without motion as you had here. Also, mix in starting on the easy angles again but when you give your close word, add in a bit of very slow motion (feet walking forward, upper body in that frozen threadle position) so he gets used to seeing the motion with the threadles.On the Go On out of the tunnel – great challenge for him! He was great on the first 2 reps, I guess that is a handler position he was comfortable with. As you faded yourself back closer to the tunnel exit, it was harder – he lost a little steam and was thinking really hard, but he did it and go lots of rewards. Nice! You can throw really early on those – as early as for the decision to take the first jump and not look back. And mix in some reps where you do move so he can have a ew easy ones thrown in there.
Nice work on these!!!
Tracy
Hi there!
On both of these games, I think sticking with less motion for a few more sessions before going to the motion will really help clarify things. On the wing wraps, he is beginning to get the idea, Yay! For now, try using just one wing, smack in the middle of the distraction jump. And do a couple of high success sessions (90 percent or above) with no motion or very little motion. Then do a couple of sessions with the 2 jumps… but no motion. Verbal only! The motion is what dilutes the verbal, so start it with no moving for now on both verbals. You’ll want to work up to at least 2 sessions on the jump of 90 percent success or more on both verbals before you add in motion.
On the decel games – the MM is a great idea! It is interesting enough to him to be both a reward and a distraction, but he can’t self-reward and he won’t be overly distracted by it. On the first video, where you were mainly stationary on the decel reps, he did pretty well. On the stationary, try to have your feet pretty close together to mimic the small steps you’d take on a decel. If he makes a mistake, cheerily call him back sooner so he doesn’t get all the way to the MM without feedback (this is hard, I know! LOL!). You can also mix in rewards from you hand to help reward the decel, and add a verbal: GO! for when you move and then the release and his name for when you are stationary.
On this game, do several more sessions of this until he really gets it, and you can be facing forwards (less sideways). When you do go into the motion, decel a lot sooner – on the last video, the decel was a bit late (he was almost past you) so you had to almost rotate to get him to turn. More practice on this with you stationary will help, and when you do add back motion – release while you walk and decel almost immediately so he can see it sooner, before he gets a full head of steam going 🙂
Nice starts on these!! Keep me posted!
Tracy
