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Good morning! I totally agree that being able to train with food or toys in hand is MUCH more efficient! And also good for saving the flesh on my hands because the dog is not grabbing for things.
BCs are often not all that excited for food in work, so in these training sessions, you can be using food and a toy to help loop things. That will accomplish 2 goals: to be able to be very efficient and precise with the reinforcement, plus the toy will build the value of the food.
I also think that you can incorporate the food or toy into the resets, which will be really helpful when you are doing more exciting things like working on wings or jumps. More on that below 🙂
The ‘get it’ for the cookie was good here! The timing would be after the click, as soon as possible – if you click then wait for more than a heartbeat, he will look back at you (clickers tend to produce that). So the order of events would be:
Click
Get it
TossAnd then to add to it: after he gets to the ‘get it’ cookie, call him back to you and use that recall moment to reset him at your side for the next rep. You can do this with another cookie and as he is coming in for the cookie, use the cookie to turn him around or get him set up at your side.
With one of my dogs, I reset for the next rep by saying “ice cream!”, she comes back and follows the cookie hand back into position at my side.
You can also use the toy for this:
Get it cookie, come back for a toy (which, paired with the cookie, will raise the value of the cookie as long as you watch to be sure he eats the cookie :)) and then tugging him back into position (or tug then a line up cue).The line up cue will be really helpful – he was not having trouble here, but he was having trouble in the class last night. So to line him up, you were using the collar to move him around and he didn’t like it – you were getting some opposition reflex and avoidance. The reset procedures either with food or toys will both solve that issue and make it fun for him to line up in the face of really exciting stuff. That of course will make for a fabulous start line in the future! If you have to move him and he doesn’t like it and you are pulling him, he will get stressed about it and then things can get muddy.
I do eventually teach the dogs to let me hold or move them by the collar, but only as part of a bigger line up or reset: for example, I am training weaves with my 17 month old dog: I line him up at my side to start with his toy (or food, depending on what I am using the session). After the line up, I put my hand on his collar (this got another reward early in training) – then send through the poles. Reward is thrown (“get it!”) then I call him back and reward him while also resetting him for the next line up… then the whole thing repeats (hand on collar, send, etc). He is happy because he knows the line up is the start of the game, and I am happy because I can get a ton of reps in without fighting with him LOL!!! And this has bubbled over into his start line in front of jumps, because he knows how to line up when asked.
Let me know what you think! He is doing really well!!
TracyGood morning!
SO MUCH good stuff here!
I think it is fine that he asked for the big ball toy – it was both a super high value reinforcement and a distraction 🙂 He is doing really well leaving you to go do the thing! It was cool to see him leaving you so easily – that will really help with the wing and jump commitment!About the various cues: from the video, it appears that your cha-ching was the Manners Minder cue. Your ai-ai-ai cue was a cookie in the hand cue. Those both made me laugh 🙂 Was “yes” the get the toy cue? Because he seems to REALLY be liking the clarity, I am going to bug you to have more specific markers for the toy play. This will be especially important as you add movement and handling, because it will help him know where to look (at the object until cued for the toy).
Toy marker ideas:
– a word for when you are moving and the toy is in your hand and he can turn his focus to the toy to grab it (I make a noise for this)
– a word for when you are going to throw the toy out ahead (this is my get it cue)And if you want, a separate cue for when you are standing still and he can drive to you for the toy (I use ‘bite’ for this, taken from disc training :))
You can also use the same words for food play if the prospect of MORE words is a bit poopy lol. I think that if the mechanics are cleaner with fewer words, that is better than having a zillion words and muddying things up LOL!
With the different toy words in mind – that will smooth out his questions when leaving you and the toy is in the picture. The session becomes “go do the thing until you hear the marker”. And because it is difficult, particularly in the face of the giant blue ball: yes, you can totally mark/reward the moment when he started to go to the cone then stopped – I would mark it and then throw the toy past the cone with a ‘get it’ cue. Be looking for more of a ping pong reinforcement arc to get these moving behaviors started: you can mark that very first step away then toss the reward, then have him come into you for a reset, then repeat. And ping pong the length of time before the marker – 3 steps, 1 step, 4 steps, 2 steps, etc. And when he totally gets it – you can wait for a full wrap before marking.
This will be especially important to get his left turns as strong as his right turns: when he was looping with the MM, he was offering all right turns (righty!). When you want the left turns, you can totally help him with a bit of body language and also start him a little closer so it is easier to turn left, and harder to cut in and go around to the right.
And the thrown rewards are REALLY reinforcing for him! That toy was higher in value to begin with… and as soon as you throw it, it became even more exciting. Yay! That is great for this challenge because it asks for him to leave something of high value to go do a thoughtful behavior. Super cool to see him do it!
Great job! If you feel comfortable with what he is doing on the cone, you can move to a wingless upright and then to a wing 🙂
Tracy
Behold the magic of peanut butter! Wheeee!
For the downhills, leave the table parallel to the ground for now, and work all the challenges of you running past, crossing, etc. – rewarding LOTS of driving into the end position. We build on it on Monday 🙂
Until then – have you tackled the elevator game yet? That is the next step – and it requires her to weight shift and hold the end position from the very end of the board while it is way up in the air.
For her end position – is the target still visible on the plank or is it faded? If it is faded – awesome! You can put it in for the elevator game, because it is a weird hard game. If it is not faded… that is also a good next step for the weekend (fading the target on a training plank).
Great job! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning Helen and Nuptse!
I am not surprised to see that he has zero problem with the rebound game. His little tail was going 1000 miles per hour and he was very patient about waiting for his treats LOL!Was he trying to lick your face when you were using 2 hands to lift the board? LOL! And it looks like he was adding in nose touches to the target, perhaps thinking you wanted that while he was waiting. Ha! Clever! And also great to see that the movement of the board seems to be a non-issue.
The only thing I think we can improve here is that he was looking up at you. So when you are doing this game (or the bang or elevator games) where you have to be close to the end of the board, you can have an empty food bowl out ahead for him to use as a focal point. Then you can release and send him to the bowl for his rewards (that you can toss into it after the release). You can leave the treats in the bowl beforehand if you trust him to not release before asked 🙂
Great job here! You don’t need to do a lot of this game because he was totally fine with it – you can mix in a rep of it here and there, in the midst of the other games that get him into end position. Onwards to the elevator game! How much does he weigh? We can sort out the mechanics of holding the board differently because he might be just heavy enough that it is hard to hold up the board. You might need to use 2 hands to hold it: so use some magical squeeze cheese already on the board for when you want him to jump on. Then your hands will be available to hold the board because he will be licking the cheese and you won’t need to feed him.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! Sorry about asking more questions, but this is helping me get a game plan in my head for him:
– separately from the teeter, how does he feel about food reward? Any restrictions? Several of my dogs are BC mixes and they eat like BCs… that means the will eat but normal treats are not all that important to them. Even string cheese is a big ‘meh’. So when I need to use food and I want to make an impact: I go to amazing things like peanut butter, cream cheese, steak, etc. So let me know how he feels about different values of food – he seems to like the cookies you are using but they might not be mind blowing enough to convince him to drive across the board.– also separately from the teeter – how does he do on a regular, non-moving plank (like a dog walk plank) that is on block or between 2 low tables? Is he able to do the plankrobatics of getting on in the middle, turning around, running across?
– how does he feel about the wobble board?
– toys! I know he really likes toys! Which are his favorites? Which ones make his head explode so he can barely think? (We want to use the head explorers :))
Basically, the goal is to do one rep of incredibly high value (after we sort out exactly what high value is). That will work more in the classical conditioning realm, where we condition him to LOVE the board because it is paired with a gigantic serving of something fabulous or with a favorite toy. For example, my bigger pup in the videos (half BC, half whippet) was afraid of the teeter and only kinda sorta likes treats. But he is INSANE for a frisbee and so he had massive breakthroughs when I would do one rep then throw the frisbee.
Let me know what you think and we will get a plan going today 🙂
TracyWheeee look at her, a weaving machine! Speed and striding – yay! Maybe it was latent learning and her brain needed to cement it. Maybe it was cooler. Or both. But this is what we wanted to see before moving on: driving to, into, and through the poles. Yay! She did have a little bit of trouble when you were down at the 4 or 5 o’clock entries so that is something you can isolate by starting closer so she is driving to the poles but doesn’t have room to go full speed – which makes that bend into the poles easier.
She is definitely striding in the poles, so a couple of days off due to the storms is fine – then hopefully you will have clear weather (and sleep 🙂 ) so you can add the wings at the end of the week and see how it goes.
Great job! This is getting exciting!!!!
TracyI figured it was the angle of the video messes with perspective. And you can also do clicker sessions with 4 oh-so-slightly open poles inside, without speed, to help him think about it: click for the turn back after the entry (into the gap between poles 2 and 3) and toss into the gap between 3 and 4. Let me know if that makes sense, but it might work during stormy days!
TracyHi! He did really well here!! You can angle the poles a little tighter, I think he is ready for more challenge with the bending.
The bowl worked well as a target – on the countermotion reps and also on the extreme rear cross reps- you can use a ‘get it’ cue to help him know he has permission to continue driving forward through the poles to the cookie (pretty impressive that he was choosing to chase your line rather than grab the cookie!) He was fine and happy with the countermotion but needed a little more support on the extreme rears. But also, on the exits of the countermotion and extreme rear crosses, he was correctly reading that the next line was where you were heading, so it is fine to reward him from your line rather than from the bowl on those. You can also throw the toy on the line, which takes a bit of an earlier throw and is going to challenge your aim, because you are moving the opposite direction LOL!Interestingly, he was solid on the rear crosses earlier in the video – I think you had more motion through them so that was helpful to him. You can run him into the extreme rear crosses and see if that helps. The rest of the handling challenges were easy for him.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there!
He did well in the Minnesota heat wave!
I see 2 options for moving forward here – personally, I would try both in separate sessions and see what he says 🙂
for the 2 sets of straight poles – on the video above, how far apart were they? 4 feet between poles 2 and 3? The camera perspective makes it look closer than that – if they were 4 feet apart, go to 8 feet apart and see how he does… then 7 feet, then 6 feet, 5 feet, etc. It might help him prepare for that 2nd bend into the straight poles and create a lightbulb moment – that lightbulb will help him let you get the pole bases to normal distance. (This is how Hot Sauce got to 4 straight poles)
The other option is to keep the poles bases very close, and have the 2 bases a teensy bit open, and close them up in tiny increments, together, leaving base 2 (poles 3 and 4) open for a bit longer. That is how Elektra got to 4 straight and it took a couple of sessions. I also went to food for this because she simply could not do it with a toy, the toy was too stimulating.
I think you should try the 2 straight bases further apart and see how it goes, moving them together- try that first. See how it goes, and then for giggles you can also try the poles close together but open the width of a finger.
Let me know how it goes! He is *thisclose* to straight poles and that final step might take several sessions and some finagling.
Tracy
Hi!
>>Hmmm….could I set this up so the right turn has the Go, go,go wing out there? Wonder if that would work. I think you could. Might try it. Oh, If I put the wings on the other side. The right turn would have the wing. I think……lol. Thanks!!>>
Yes – you can totally add another wing so it is straight out past the right turn side to help test the timing of your cues 🙂
T
Hi!
When you add a bit of movement, is he getting worried and leaping off? Let me know what he is doing and we can figure out how to help him.>>Should I keep working all of this first group of exercises until he tolerates more movement? Would I be harming the sequence of the process by trying something from the next section of exercises?>>
On the games that don’t require movement (like the end position on the plank, or backing up onto something that doesn’t move), you can totally work them! The rest of the games generally add motion, so I want to hear more about what he is doing before deciding what to do. If he is worried about the movement, and we add MORE movement, then yes – it could be harmful to the process.
But we can also look at getting him happy with movement in a different way, with the one hit wonders approach or by including favorite toys (my dogs go nuts for frisbees :)) – this can often be far more effective than doing the more traditional shaping sessions.
Here are some more ideas about that:https://agility-u.com/lesson/being-incremental-adding-excitement-and-one-hit-wonders/
Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
He did really well here! Hit every entry, and stayed in the whole time. No problem at all. Nice! Does he normally have trouble when things touch him? You mentioned it to him here and he seemed fine with it LOL! So, apologies for the boring “that was great feedback” LOL and onwards we go… on your next session, start with slightly harder angles at this width as a warm up – then close the poles up a little and work all the angles and motion. He is going to move through the progression very quickly, and I bet we see him start to ‘swim’ the poles within a few sessions 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi!
She did well with the added challenge of the tighter poles! When you had them really tight towards the end of the session, she got really thoughtful about it – but I think that might have also been because you were far ahead and not moving as much, so it was a bit of a double whammy of challenge. I think the Find ‘Em from the wings is a great next step – leaving the angles at about where they were at :29 on this video, start the find em game with the wings: that will challenge her but you will also not be too far ahead.
I think she also likes verbal affirmation, so you can add a ‘yes’ or similar marker when she hits the entry.
She definitely likes the flying squirrel!
And if she has fun and doesn’t have to think too much with the Find ‘Em game, you can tight the poles up a little but still do them as part of the Find ‘Em game from the wings – she will like the motion and I think she will still be able to maintain her accuracy 🙂
Great job here!
TracyHi! Great session!
Good job adding motion – be sure to be moving before he hits the entry, so he doesn’t rely on you being stationary as he is heading to the poles.I see what you mean about the bounce on one side and the singles on the other side – at first I thought maybe it was fatigue because the singles happened later in the video… but at the end you went back to the first side and he went back to bouncing. LOL! So it is probably more about how he is sorting out bending into the entry. I am not worried at all, he is doing really well and will sort it out without a problem.
I think the next session(s) should be the Find ‘Em game from wings (posted yesterday) and, separately, adding in the harder angles. If you don’t have access to channels, take a look at the games and add in the crazy handling on the 2x2s at this stage 🙂
After that – poles 1 and 2 go straight and poles 3 and 4 open back up to 3&9 o’clock, as we go into the final stage for 4 straight poles. Yay!
He definitely thought having to eat the cookies from the MM was a little stoooopid so you can fade out the MM a this point. He is looking straight and definitely drives for the toy – without losing his mind for it. Good boy!!!
Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
