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Good morning!!
He did an awesome job this morning, it is really giving us the picture of what his finished teeter will be – nice and fast, driving to the end!
He was a wild man because of the running before it – and I am happy with that. LOL! Wild man is a good thing for this game!>> I am still meeting him at the end b/c I don’t have anything there to put on the end of the teeter for cookies. I will start bringing the assist with me to LU from here on out.>>
You can meet him at the end, but you can also squish something onto the end of the board – a little spray cheese right at the end will be compelling haha! And bringing the teach it will help too because it is pretty portable!
That will allow you to add in a bit of moving past – but add that in very incrementally. I recommend doing it very carefully not because I think he will be worried, but because he is SO EXCITED that we don’t want him leaping off – he will need to wait til you get back there (reward again when you do) and that will actually be helpful for teaching him to wait for the release as the board is dropping.
Great job!
TracyGood morning! You are off to a great start here!!! Good boy, Krome! And this was a really good session overall: short, fast, fun, highly reinforcing but also added some challenges. Super!
>> This was best he’s ever done.
That is great! He was a little uncomfortable to begin with but he totally rocked this session!! Look at him drive up the board at :35, then he kept getting faster and faster. He even rocked the RC (only gave you a little side eye there haha). Whoa, so much speed at 1:27!!! Really good session to build confidence. He is still building that confidence, so more sessions like this will totally help!
>>I know I’m suppose to celebrate all the interaction with board but you can tell I’m hesitant since he’s played before.>>
Totally understandable! But, I want you to pretend that he is a one-year-old pup who is learning this for the very first time (although he will move through it faster than a one year old dog would). Celebrate every single thing like you would for a dog brand new to the game. Fake it if you have to hahahahaha 🙂 Reward all the things – when he is a little slower, it is still worth a cookie because that cookie will build speed and confidence. Withholding the reward can dilute the speed and confidence.
This will become especially true as you start to add tip. You can add some in the next session, just a little, to see how he does – his response will guide us as to how quickly we can add more (or not).
He likes toys, right? You can also tug between reps, if he will go back and forth between food and toys.
>> His biggest struggle is how to get off. I don’t like him jumping off like you can see in video and he’s done just that at shows. Hes ok with me picking up only if I have good grip…>>
Totally agree, I don’t want him jumping off either – dock diving off the teeter is not an option. So you can develop a rhythm of coming right back to him – reward again for waiting for you, you can praise while you are on the way back. Then you can gently take his collar (reward) gently help him turn around at the top of the board (reward lol – this will help him also have great body awareness on the plank) then have him walk down and cue him to jump off the side. It will not have any negative impact on the finished product to do this.
The other option is to move a tall table next to the board and have him step/hop down onto it.
Great job here! I am looking forward to more sessions!!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, time to get him on the seesaw LOL!! The RDW work has really helped build his love for planks and targeting! He is doing really well with all of the games so far – and I am looking forward to your kiwi number 8 wire device hahahahaha! I have a game to add that uses a wobble board in the next set of games 🙂We have a weave class starting on Monday – my 2 youngsters are learning the weaves and my slightly older youngster is re-starting the progression after a year off to resolve a patella issue. I’ve taken a far more incremental approach to the weaves too… they are soaking it up like sponges!
Have fun and keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
>>I did read your admonition to avoid that, but at the moment teeter access is still limited. So, I did two exercises I felt were very different at least – mountain climbers and backing up.>>
Totally understandable 🙂 My finger-shaking was so that folks wouldn’t over-train their youngsters 🙂 If the 2 sessions were separate, as in: do one and then take a break and then come back later for the other one – should be perfectly fine 🙂
On the Mountain Climber video: you’re going to laugh, but don’t praise him on the way up til he gets to the top. He was driving up on that first rep, you praised, he went “huh?” and looked at you LOL! The rewarding in the middle and going with him is a step you can fade now, becaise he is so on task for getting to the end 🙂
I love that you used this teeter – it is really different than the clip and go teeter and it had some good clanging and bounce on the board (the clip and go does not have that). He nailed ALL of the challenges and also offered the down on the way past. TThe additional speed fro the wing was exciting – look at how fast his teeter is going to be, holy COW!!!!
Yes, he thought the rear crosses were bizarro 🙂 but that is why we install them so early – he did better on the last several reps. When you added the wing – did you do any where you wrapped the wing and sent him with you standing way back by the wing? I think that will help him drive ahead so you can do the RC more easily.>>So, I think I’d do a little more work on that before adding a little tip and going through the series again?>>
You can start with the wing to sending him ahead without you, and then trying the rear cross – but you can progress to adding tip for the other challenges before the RC is perfect. He is not lacking in confidence, he is just asking “what the??” on a handling move haha!!! So you can do the RC without tip and add tip for all the others.
The backing up looks really good! You were totally low enough. At :16, the teeter clanged behind him and it distracted him, so he didn’t back up as well… but clearly he sorted it out and filed it into the “no big deal” category because the rest of the backing up was lovely!
He did get mad when you moved away, so yo ucan release him to you for a hand touch (and reward as a helpful anger management tool haha) then cue the backing up. I think some of his verbal feedback was just “this is hard, you crazy human, whose ideas was THIS!” LOL!!! But it is a good training game to get him to offer that hind end use, even when he is stimulated (and maybe a little frustrated by the difficulty?). Nice sessions! You can add a tiny bit more tip!>>Quick question about weave class…I have my lovely set up 12 2×2 channel weaves, but I was thinking of taking half of them to my friend’s place (the one featured in these videos) for at least the early part of the course to give me a second place to practice. Is six poles sufficient for the first few weeks?>>
Yes – you won’t need more than 6 poles until after March 22nd – and even if you can’t get all 12 for after the 22nd, you will be plenty busy with the 6 poles and you won’t be missing out if it takes longer to get the full set. The plan is to have a 2×2 track AND a channels track going concurrently, so that no one gets held back by space or weather limitations.
>>We’re also having fun in the RDW class. Although I’m so naughty with my movement that Katarina is making me send from sitting in a chair>>
Awesome!!! I also “got in trouble” for helping with too much motion on my sends, in BOTH my RDW class and with my flyball instructor. Oopsie hahahaha!!!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning again!
>> He is enjoying this training, big time! Henow follows me around rather than chasing birds in the agameticua trees in hopes of more treats!>>
That is really terrific to hear – it is so great that the value of the teeter sessions is overriding the value of BIRDS! I mean, he is a bird dog by instinct, yes? So the teeter must be feeling REALLY good to him now 🙂 Yay!!!
On the backing up session – he is catching onto this really quickly (behold the power of the Manners Minder!) And the MM keeps his head pretty low without you needing to sit on the ground. Remind me – is he a 4 on dog, or a 2 on, 2 off dog? I can’t remember, need more coffee haha! But – with whichever end position you want, you can move the MM just far enough away that he can easily back up into the position. And then, add a tiny bit more tip to the board 🙂 maybe another half inch?
These games are looking great! I am excited for the good weather to come along so you can do more and also get to other places!
Tracy
Good morning Helen and Nuptse!!
The back and forth is looking good without the tip! And he was happy to jump on the in the middle in the second session to get the game started. There was some good rattle and noise when you added the tip.
He ran to the end nicely on the rep where he then left to bark at the fence, so it is possible that you running fast and far past it was too hard of a challenge – he was lovely after that. I think when you ran really far past, there was enough of a time lapse where he found himself at the end of the board, without you, without cookies… so he took off to bark. That’s good info! So, for now, come back to him immediately and don’t go tooooo far past while you introduce the challenges. And, if you think he likes praise, you can talk to him and praise him up and down while you are on your way back (some dogs REALLY like that, some don’t care LOL!)
But – the tip and rattle and noise elements all looked GREAT, he was driving to the end beautifully. Go with another session exactly the same as this one… if that goes well, you can add a little more tip on the session after that 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi! It depends on the situation, but in general I would say – both! Meaning: nice try, let’s play (cookie or toy) then try again (for more reward). This is especially true if there has been any concern or worry or fear. If the dog was just being wild and going too fast and lost his balance – I would give a small cookie for the good decision to NOT hurt himself LOL!
And if it happens more than once, I would make the next rep easier so he could be successful.
Let me know if that makes sense.
TracyHi!
Hooray for birthday presents! But now I feel the pressure to buy a birthday present hah!
He seemed happy on this back and forth game – there was some whip and rattle on the board but I think he was fine with it! Yay!
For the next session – put the agility table (which is next to the teach it in this video) where the lawn chair is, so he is going from the teach it to the table – and adjust the teach it so the high end is a little higher – then he can go downhill from the teach it to the table. (The stable end should be on the teach it, so you can adjust that and get tip onto the table). If he is happy going from the teach it to the table, you can adjust the teach it downwards to add maybe half inch of tip nd see what he does. We will let his response guide us as to how quickly to add tip.Great job!
TracyHowdy! All of these are looking good!!
Mountain climbers at home – he wants to weight shift at the beginning of the yellow rather than right at the end of the board, but he got better on each rep here! He wasn’t as excited as he would be at LU, but he did really well. He was weight shifting earlier than we want for the moment, but he is not looking for the tip in the middle 🙂 Yay! So we will just keep brain washing him that the treats are all the way at the end, yum yum!!!!
At LU: He was wilder here which is helpful! Different teeter, in a different location on the floor- but he was really good!! He thought about it on the first rep and then got more confident on each one. Each time you play this, he is driving more and more to the end of the board – this is very cool to see! And putting it into a sequence was great… it gets to him get wild and run to the end a lot more. Yay!!! If you can grab a moment to do a mountain climber in a sequence throughout your time at LU – do it! He seems to really love it.
As far as tip – I would leave this game where it is for now – adding the challenges to the end of moving past for sure, crosses, etc, but not adding tip yet. Tip will be added in the other games first for him, because I think the other games are easier for controlling the tip.
Backing up onto the teeter – nice! You can also play with releasing him forward to the toy rather than cookies in position – I mention that option because I think you can add a little bit of tip on the teeter here! So that way when it moves, you can get him right off of it for a tug toy – getting him off the board and tugging will prevent him from thinking too much about the tip 🙂 Dogs that might be concerned about movement do really well when we reward off the board.
Backing up to the disc- looks great! Definitely try for the tugging on it – do you have 2 discs or a bigger disc to give him a wider base to weight shift while tugging?
The 2nd backing up video (to the disc) looks good too! He was ‘looking’ for the disc with his back feet and being methodical about it (not flinging himself). The disc is pretty inflated, so when you add tugging, deflate it a little so he can control the balance more easily.
Great job here!!! Let me know what you think.
TracyHi!
>> I was planning on do four on- not sure why- maybe because a previous class I was taking was four on
4 on has gotten really popular with big dog handlers lately… based on some research about 2 years ago, I think this was partially because the dog arrives at criteria sooner so gets released sooner (in theory). But the problem then becomes that the dog doesn’t drive all the way to the end as well, so the teeter ends up either being slower or they get flyoffs.
>> but he also has a running dog walk so I wasn’t sure if two on two off would be confusing. Now I’m seeing that wouldn’t be be an issue since it’s different contexts.
I agree, it is not confusing to the dogs. They have us well-trained LOL!
>>When I do the backing up to teeter and backing up to a target (like fit bones, Cato board, etc) I struggle to get him to back up to four on so it ends up being a two on two off.
2o2o is a very natural position for the dogs and a very clear one. Plus it allows them to control the whip of the board better when they land in position, if you are going to hold them in position before the release (the 4on folks almost never hold the dog in position, it is almost always a quick release… which is why they also have issues with criteria slipping)
>>But we’ve also done a fair amount of bang game where he goes into the four on. Since we’re so early in the training, I’m wondering if I should do a two on two off? What are the advantage/disadvantages of each? Not sure if size matters but he’s probably around 35 pounds. I’m interested to hear your thoughts.>>
He is big enough that you can choose either! I personally would begin the training for a 2o2o. We can get him really driving into that position and shifting his weight. That is the position that is super clear to the dogs and easiest to maintain! And, it is super fast because the dog is more at the end of the board than a 4on, so the 2o2o drives the board down faster. Now, in a normal trial run you would make sure you released when he arrived at criteria in the 2o2o, so the 4on dog might get released sooner… but that doesn’t mean the 4on dog will be faster (when I compare video) because criteria gets cloudy – and if you wanted to release him quickly to try to win a big event, he will be happy to release and you will be super fast… but you can easily go back to your 2o2o. I did that with my oldest dog – for about 10 years, I maintained his 2o2o *except* in big events, where I released him as soon as the board hit the ground 🙂 He had a GREAT teeter, far better than my other dog who did a 4on, touch and go – he was slower because he didn’t drive to the end as well. Plus, when I did maintain the stop for a heartbeat, the 2o2o dog had an easier time controlling the bounce-back of the teeter under him because his front feet were on the ground (we have a game coming up for that.)
Food for thought!
TracyYay! I think it is all sorted out: refund sent, and the weaves class should be visible. Let me know!
T
Hi!
The rear crosses look great, and she was not asking any questions about driving ahead of you to the end! Very nice! And the front crosses did not distract her at all. I couldn’t see the wing in the video but she *definitely* had more speed. Love it! It all looked fabulous 🙂
So, on this teeter… add the tiniest bit of tip and be ready to jackpot! When adding tip, start with the easy stuff like you moving with her, and then move back up to the speedy stuff like the wing and crosses.Do you have access to other teeters? The mountain climbers without tip should go on as many teeters as you can get to.
Great job!
TracyHi!
>>I had debated 4o but decided it would probably be easiest to just stick to 2o2o to maintain. I’ve always been interested in a touch/go teeter (board hits the ground and the dog releases). Do you have any insight on that? Would you still have 2o2o? Or what would the criteria be?>>
About 2 years ago, I researched the various ‘popular’ teeter positions for large dogs like BCs to see why people were going to the touch and go, for example – turns out, the fancy touch and go releases we see in competition (particularly in Europe) are just quick releases where the 2o2o or 4on or down were simply not maintained, and the dog learned to run through with a touch and go. The result I found with many dogs had 3 things happen:
the teeter performance was slower, because the dogs were weight shifted earlier rather than driving to the end
the ‘don’t fly off’ element needed a lot of maintenance and very often, re-training
and, lots of flyoff calls because the dogs were anticipating the touch and go element.so, for me, it was not worth it to train for a touch and go – too risky and not reliable enough. I can still drop criteria and release early sometimes in big events (like a national finals) if I want to, but the layers of criteria will allow me to ‘get away with it’ without losing the end behavior.
>>For a target, would you use the treat and train? I can try adding the toys in too. She does like her food.>>
I might use the treat and train to reward sometimes with it placed several feet away, but the target can be something like a lid or strip of plastic for her to focus on without a reward on it – and it is small enough to fade easily 🙂
Tracy
Good morning!
>>Please let me know if it’s too late to be submitting more video for this class. I’ve completely lost track of when class was supposed to end.>>
Hooray for the snowing melting! Hopefully some of the high winds will help dry things out? Fingers crossed for spring weather!
I have also lost track of when this class officially ends LOL!!! I will go look – but keep posting, now that the weather is clearing up!!
The decel work is great for when you don’t want to move (generally the dogs do fine in squishy footing but we slip and slide doing the decelerations.
She was a bit wide on the first rep but then it looks likes she realized that she needed to add the collection without a lot of help from you… so she did! Good girl!
I think she was a little better turning to her left here, especially at :22 and :33 when she powered out of the tunnel and into the wraps really nicely. She did well on the left turns too, but you can help her set up the collections by angling your position a tiny bit – your right hip will be facing the wing a bit more rather than you facing forward.
She also did well at the end with the decel on the 2nd jump up the line – she just needs to see that more to practice collecting when there is even more speed.When the ground is less squishy, add in more motion and transition to see how she does reading the decel element of that. Great job here!
Tracy
