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Hi there, hope you had a great weekend!
Looking at the set point first:
I think the set point went fine in terms of mechanics and it was good to try it out with the food rewards. The first rep on the first video was a little too chill, but then you started her a little closer to the first jump, and plus she got a little more jazzed up (trying to cheat on the stay a little LOL!). The reps with the toy play in between (and the cheese rep on the 2nd video) were more exciting for her. For the set point… that was perfect 🙂 She was balanced and thinking about mechanics – we don’t need her to be more drivey on the set point, it should be a bit chill 🙂 So keep rewarding the stay, and incorporating the high value food. You can move the food target further away, as that might help her extend even more – food tends to calm jumping mechanics a bit. I think she did well driving to the toy, though, so you can totally work it in too!On the smiley face… we don’t need this to be chill at all, this can be wilder 🙂 Wheeee! It is mainly a connection game for us humans.
So looking at the 2 videos – she was not being naughty when she was grabbing the toy (trust me, I would tell you if she was LOL!) and her questions about which side to be on and whether or not to take the wing were about connection. Baby dogs are very literal so we have to be pretty perfect with connection. Here are some specifics then general ideas after it.Most of the reps on both videos were really lovely! I will point out the loveliness alongside the question moments, so you can see what created lovely versus what created questions 🙂
That first rep on the first video was really nicely connected – try to reward sooner when things are going right rather than keep going and risk an oopsie 🙂 Let’s look at the moments when she had questions and opinions:
On the first video:
The toy came out so at :42 she was faster (yay!) which presents a connection challenge – You got good connection on the tunnel exit, but then pointed forward while she was still behind you plus you were moving laterally away from the wing – so she was not sure what to do. Pointing forward when the dog is behind us changes the line of our shoulders, so they read a turn or sometimes a blind cross. That happened at 1:00 (you can see her look up at you with a question there)Compare it to the send at :54 where your arm was lower and didn’t point forward til she was nearer to you, then the really GREAT connection on the exit of the FC – lovely! She had no question there.
At 1:25 as she exited the tunnel, you were pointing forward and she could only see your back, so she wasn’t sure where to be so went to the toy side. Something similar happened at 1:42, where you got really good connection on the tunnel exit, but then before she could make a decision you pointed forward so she blind crossed (which is actually what the beginning of a blind would look like)
Compare that to 1:53 – such nice connection on the tunnel exit! And you were lower with your arm and smoother/later with the swoosh forward (she was committed to the correct side) – lovely! And also lovely connection on the exit and the tunnel send at 1:56. YAY!
Looking at the 2nd video –
You were really emphasizing your connection at :15 – great! Also great at :30!
She had a question at 1:05 – you got connection but then sent with a high arm and you were moving laterally away from the wing like at :42 on the first video. So try to maintain the connection and run forward to the wing.
Compare it to 1:30, much better connection and line!
And the last big run had good connection and good lines so she got it 🙂So – it is all about intensifying the connection, for longer – because she is so young, we have to exaggerate it. When she exits the tunnel, make eye contact with her as you continue to move forward (she won’t look back at you – eye contact is used to get your shoulders on the line you want and to open up which side you want). Then keep your arm low and connection strong until she is passing you, then your arm can move forward but keep it nice and low. Pointing forward to the jump when she is behind you will look like a blind cross so if she ends up on the wrong side of you – you can reward it because you probably cued her to do it 🙂
When she blind crossed and took the toy – she likely thought it was a legit “nailed it!” moment and thought you were rewarding her LOL!! Not a naughty moment – in fact, that is pretty universal that young dogs will do that when we disconnect (I have certainly done it – I think I left some of the disconnects in the demo videos too :))>>oday I left the toy inside and brought out the cheese and tried to engage with cheese first. I like these results better. May try this for a couple days before I bring out the toy again?>>
You totally can use food for this – I thought you were having an easier time emphasizing your connection when you were using food rewards. And then when you are comfy with the connection (personally, I have found that connection feels really uncomfortable with young dogs!), go back to the toy – that will challenge you to be able to connect while things are moving faster 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense! You two are doing a grea job 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning!
He did really well here! I am glad he is enjoying this. More than birds? That is IMPRESSIVE and speaks volumes about how much reinforcement you have put into it. Yay!!!
I think he had to sort things out on the first couple of reps, he was a little slower and looking at you more. He was accurate and not looking for the pivot, so it was more like he needed to figure things out. To help him, you can start with a little dab of cheese on the target already – and you can mix that in during the session too, to keep reminding him to drive right there and look down and not at you. I mix that in sometimes to help the dogs NOT watch me 🙂
As the session progressed, he got more and more confident – faster down the board and more to the target, looking at you less. You can toss that treat back to between his front feet (rather than go over and feed him from your hand) Yes, he might leave position when you do that, so use your verbal cue so he knows it is ok to do so (I use ‘catch’) And sometimes you can praise then release forward for his toy!
You will see this game added today, and it has a few more ideas too 🙂 For the next session, I don’t suggest changing anything. He needs a couple of sessions of this before we make it crazier 🙂 But you can add the other games in too! They will be posted shortly.Great job! Have fun!
TracyGood morning (or afternoon for you? LOL!
These sessions look really good.
On the channels:
This was a good width of the poles for him – he could still run but had to think about bending more on the entry especially on the left side sends, where he would previously drift out to the opposite side of the channels. Compare :38 where he was all like “WHOA! I need to work harder to stay in the channel” at the entry with 1:34 where he prepared *before* he entered and stayed in a lot better :). Good boy, good adjustment!!!
He did really well on the various challenges you presented – right side seems easy for him, the left side sends require more work to bend. So on your next session, add in the harder angles on both sides but especially the left side so he can really work that set up before the entry.2x2s – he was really great finding all the angles and didn’t mind any of your motion either. Excellent!! Yes there was the one RC moment at the end where he didn’t bend, but I think that was not a big deal and will go away when the 2nd set of poles are there.
>> I watched the video today about adding the second set of poles. Do you think we are ready for that?>>
100% yes! The next step is to add poles 3 and 4 with that base wide open (3&9). And because that is a big variable to add, the base with poles 1 and 2 should open up a little, I’d say back to 1&7 for him. Now, because he has some experience here already with weaving, it is likely that you will be able to angle the 2nd base pretty quickly to 2&8, then 1&7. So this might move along pretty quickly – but that 2nd base is a great distraction for all the hard angles, so work those before you angle too much.
Great job! Have fun!!
TracyGood morning!
Hooray for cheese! She was definitely happy to be working for it!
She was a super good girl to do the weaves then get the treat, even when she knew the treat was there AND when you were sending her to the entry from pretty darn near the treat plate – I love it! (My dogs would have totally tried to cheat LOL!!) That showed excellent focus on the entry and self-control to go find it, when it would have been easier to just grab the treat 🙂
She was pretty perfect on your right side
As you mentioned – she had a little more trouble finding the entry on your left side (closer to the yellow peanut). I don’t think you were doing anything wrong, particularly – I think there was less room there plus the angle was really hard, so she couldn’t quite figure out how to squeeze past the poles to find the entry, especially when you moved. It is also possible that she is a righty so has an easier time turning to her right (like the first part of the video) and not a lefty – which is why the sends at the end were harder, because they were left turns. To help her out, you can break it down to easier steps on that side, starting on easier angles like at 1 and 2 on the clock and progress more slowly to the harder angles. And you can also slide the base over so she has more room on that side to find the entry.
Great job here!! Have you played with adding the 2nd base yet (poles 3 & 4)? I think she is ready to do that especially on the sends – you don’t need the threadles to be perfect in order to add those.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>At this stage of training the weaves is there a benefit to doing the 2×2 exercises and the channels or should I just focus on one track?>>
Excellent question… this is the first time I am training both tracks concurrently (rather than only focusing on one track, or switching to the other track when I didn’t like what I was getting in the first track). I am LOVING the results so far of doing both – I am working 3 different dogs through the progressions alongside the class dogs here, and the depth of understanding is much greater than I have seen with any of my other dogs at this stage. That includes both the striding and the entries/staying in, with all sorts of crazy angles and handling. Each method has different strengths that it brings to the table, so using both is getting a best-of-both-worlds result so far!
Plus, it is helping generalize more easily because the dogs are seeing different bases and different poles in different places, rather than relying on the same visual.So, I vote for doing both, if possible 🙂
Have fun!
TracyGood morning! Hope you had a great weekend!
He had a really high rate of success on both of these videos (#2 was the same as #1)! He really only one miss, running past the poles. towards the end of the 2nd video when you were doing a rear cross.
>>If I added any motion he’d take the tunnel so I chose to keep it simple to make him successful.>>
Do you mean he would bypass the poles entirely like he did at the end of the 2nd video, or that he would do the poles and then go into the tunnel?
If it that he would was bypass the poles entirely, then yes – dial back the motion and add it in very gradually, progressing from a walk to a fast walk to a jog to a run.
But if it was taking the tunnel after the poles (which he did a few times early in the first video): he wasn’t wrong, necessarily – the tunnel was on his line after the poles based on how you set up the base. So, to increase the challenge and take the tunnel off his line – change the angle of your weaves so the tunnel is a definite off course before or after the poles. To do this, the base of the poles should be more parallel to the tunnel opening and not perpendicular as it was here. That way if he goes into the tunnel he would be leaving the line and not driving the line. That would place the tunnel entry as a visual distraction through the middle of the poles when he is on your left, or as a temptation to not going into the entry when he is in your right – but definitely not on the line when he finishes the 2nd pole.
Let me know if that makes sense! He is doing really well and I think he will be just fine with the harder discrimination here 🙂
TracyGood morning!
Sounds like a fun weekend at the trial! Congrats on your successes with the girls! And yes, that 20″ backside probably just needs a little bit of practice and then she will have it. And I am glad that Presto was a good boy too!>>There was no MM, but I did place a yellow frisbee that I use as a target for jump grids. I didn’t actually place any rewards there, but it clearly helped keep his focus forward.>>
Awesome! The head forward was really great!!!
On the video – really nice! And his brain was not tired from being in the trial setting!
ooh good quick clicks on the hard entries in the beginning
angling poles 3 and 4 seemed to add a little challenge but nothing that made his head explode. Nice work with all the angles and motion and handling challenges, there was a little bit of everything – only one miss that I could see here and I think it was more like he was not quite ready to start – he was great on that same angle late in the session.>>There were a couple moments where he was a little unsure of driving forward – probably both from some movement and my verbal rewards.
I notice that too, some of the dogs look back at us when we praise heartily – but that is fine because I think we should praise heartily in the trial ring, so they will get used to hearing it and keep going 🙂
>> Oh, I also noticed my clicking was all over the place – often way too early. So, need to pay more attention to that! Luckily it didn’t result in reinforcing wrong behavior.>>
I thought you were fine, generally, I didn’t make a note about clicks being weird when I watched the video 🙂 And had some super nice clicks for wrapping the entry on the hard angles! As the challenges get harder in terms of staying in the poles, click later… and also we will be fading the MM and the clicker, so you can mark it verbally and throw toys 🙂
So…. onwards to poles 3 and 4 being a little more at 1&7. And if that goes well for 2 short sessions… onwards to the next step which is poles 1 and 2 go straight (12&6) and poles 3 and 4 go back to 3&9. We are getting into weaving FOR REAL now, so if it feels like the progressions are slowing down… then you are doing it right. We can blaze through the early levels because it is easy on the body and mind. But now that there is more bending and more difficulty of striding, we will be slowing it down a lot in terms of fewer sessions and staying longer at each level. I mention it because you will feel the difference in the rhythm of the progressions, and I wanted you to know that it is CORRECT 🙂 and it means he is doing great!
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! This was indeed an interesting session – he was pretty accurate but definitely questioning if it was cool to drive that far away from you while you were stationary. When you were running? Perfectly fine 🙂 You standing still? Hmmmm….. And when you were talking to him? Definite hmmmm…
So I think it has to do with the value of the MM rewards (I know, right? LOL!!!) with you all the way back there and not moving. Now I know it is unlikely that we will stand still while the dog is weaving, but we do want him driving through while you are not running alongside so you can add in the handling craziness. A couple of ideas:
– separately from the weaves, you can work on leaving you to drive to the MM that is now miles away. Using something simple like a foot target or a short tunnel, send him to it and have the MM pretty far, to help build the love of leaving you while you are NOT running.
– you can jazz up the rewards in the MM so he is wilder for them (and reduce the value of what you have in your hand, if you have anything on you)
– if there is something higher value than the MM, you can add it in. A ball, maybe? You can leave the MM there as a visual target for now, and throw the ball (he will forgive any wild throws LOL!) rather than use the MM
– on 6 poles, send him through with the MM progressively further and further away, with you standing still. He is very familiar with 6 poles so that should be easy.Also, on this set of 12 – I think he was beginning to think about striding because the poles were just tight enough to elicit that. When you are moving – great! He can see that challenge. When you are not moving, open up the poles so he doesn’t have to think about striding and can just run run run 🙂
>> I forgot all about moving on the tougher angles….which I think he could’ve handled on the wrap entries but not so sure about on the soft sides. And a question….when I do stretch our skill level with moving sooner on those entries would you got back to doing those with just 4 or 6 poles?>>
With him, I would add in motion pretty early on and mix in standing still only here and there (because he asks more questions about standing still than he does about motion, so standing still seems to be the harder challenge). And yes – I work all the wild angles on 4 or 6 poles, so that the visual discrimination of finding the correct entry is a little reduced as the variable of the angle or motion gets harder. Plus, working on a short set allows us to reinforce more quickly to really isolate the entry.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGOod morning!
The first part of the session looks really good! He was hitting the 2 sets of poles at 1&7 from straight and soft angles – the next session should have more variety of angle, so you can get further down the clock to the ‘bottom’ of it: 3, 4, 5 and also 9, 8, 7. Do that while the poles are still at 1&7 so you can cover all the bases before making it harder (or make the angles a little easier if needed, those entries get really difficult :))
On the 2nd part of the video at about 1:37 – that was a pretty significant straightening of the poles, both sets changing angles to almost straight (2 variables changing). So while he was getting it from straight on, I think it was too much of a leap forward in the progression. So rather than change both variables (both sets) – change one variable, such as the first set only going to 12&6 and the 2nd set going back to 3&9, then work all the angles there. It sounds like he was really successful with the single set (poles 1 and 2) at 12&6, so that should be an easy transition to add the 2nd base at 3&9 (wiiiiiide open) – it might feel almost too easy, but that is perfect: you can add in the harder angles.
Now that we are getting into actual weave behavior, the progressions will slow down – meaning, we can’t rip through the new challenges in a session or two 🙂 My general rule for changing variables is that I can get 2 sessions of about 90% success, with a wide variety of angles, then I change 1 variable. That 1 variable can be adding motion, or changing the angle of one base, etc.
He is doing really well! That gives us the leeway to work all the little details 🙂
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I really like how you structured this session – starting with a little help, then gradually less and less help with physical cues. Now the wrap is taking on a lot of value, so you might find yourself doing more motion with the tunnels and taking it out with the wrap – give a big step to the tunnel.
There were a lot of cookie rewards with the high value cookies, so definitely add in more toy rewards and maybe go to less interesting cookies 🙂 Also, if there is an error, reset her really fast and help be see what the correct answer is, then tug tug tug tug 🙂 She lost focus a bit when there were several errors, so the toy play will really help keep her engaged.>>I switch sides and it all breaks down. In this video she didn’t want the toy much because she wanted the good cheese. She didn’t like going to this side and is really distracted. Not sure what happened. I did a lot of playing in between??? What should I do next time for this? Maybe start with THIS side???>>
I think that was more about the value of the wrap rising and her needing more help to get into the tunnel. And, if she just had really good cheese and you went back to a toy, you might need to bring the BEST TOY EVER to wage battle against the cheese 🙂
So on that side – yes, totally start on that side next time, and give her a bigger step into the tunnel, really help her out to the tunnel. Then stand still on the wing. And if there is an error, you can step in and help on the next rep so she doesn’t have a bunch of errors – I think her distraction here was more about the rate of success getting low (and also lack of that delicious cheese :))Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! This is going well, it is a really hard game!!!
She was a very good girl here, and it was fine to help her on this first session. When she took the tunnel and didn’t wrap, you were late on your help 🙂 But that also means you can start to help less, so she doesn’t rely on the toy helping her or the motion. I see you help less on the next video 🙂
One thing that is helpful without motion is to change the verbals: tunnel can be loud and exciting, the wrap verbal can be softer and less exciting, almost like a whispered secret 🙂 She has a lot of “giddy up!” to her so if you are really exciting and loud with all the cues, she is going to giddy up a lot 🙂 She is too young to totally know the difference between all the verbals, so the different tones and excitement levels will really help 🙂
Nice start to this game!!!
THi!
Arse-over-kite! I love it!
>> I realised when watching back I am actually still moving towards the TT when I release her. I didn’t know I was doing this. I know I am supposed to be stationary.>>
You were probably just trying to release before she moved 🙂 She is beginning to recognize the catch cue and staying back at the jump! Good job with all of the stay reinforcement 🙂
On the set point:
She is consistently producing the same good form, no real differences in each rep, nice and organized in and out of the grid. Yay! You can add back a little height to the 2nd bar, just a little (for anyone else following the thread, we can add height because she is an adult dog not a puppy :))On the wraps – great job with the verbals!
I see what you mean about her not turning tight (and not adding a collection before the wing to bend her body). So let’s change the mechanics to help teach her that, here are a few ideas:
Instead of post turn (send and leave) on the wing, let’s do front crosses. And, for each rep, have her start with you so she is focused on you and settled – then send. Just before she is arriving at the wing, she should be seeing the FC.
As you exit the FC, a couple of things:
keep running until she arrives at your side, and reward her from your hand. She is going to have to chase you to get it, which will provide some good incentive to hurry to you, which will also help her figure out how to turn tighter!
And one more thing to add: more connection on the exit. So if she is exiting on your left side, have the reward in your right hand, and show it to her across your body – that allows the left shoulder (dog side shoulder) to be more opened up back to her. That really shows the new line and connection, and is an immediate turn-tightener.
Here is an explanation video – for some reason the sound got off track on it? But I think it will still make sense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFaVNaTphLY
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyYep, YouTube enjoys changing settings all the time and messing things up!
PS – forgot to mention above: add more tip to the downhills too 🙂
Yay for games on the road!!
Uphills – I love love love love her confidence even in a new place! I think that perhaps she is even more confident in the barn because of the running and the excitement! She is driving uphill really well. For now (for a LONG while, actually LOL!), have the treats pre-placed there at the end on the target (you can ‘glue’ them in with a bit of peanut butter or cream cheese) so she doesn’t try to look up at you at all especially on the rear crosses. Since we have not added end position, the treats already being there will reinforce the drive across the board while keeping her focused on the end of the board. When we take the treats out of the picture too early, the dogs start slowing down because they start looking at us. So, keep this beautiful drive across this board but having the treats already there so she goes to the end and doesn’t think about you til long after she has arrived there 🙂
One other little detail – for now, keep all the entries straight – when you were wrapping the wing, she was having to slow down to line up and we will add that separately. She could fly up the board on the straight entries 🙂So for the uphills… add more tip 🙂
Downhills – also love her confidence here! YESSSSS! And also to do it with a person there, person talking to you, etc… I mean, I don’t know why folks try to engage in conversation while we are literally in the moment of training the dog – but they and so we embrace it as a distraction. You were perfect: very polite to the person but also totally focused on River. Click/treat for you! And she was perfect, good girl! It is a really valuable opportunity to expose her to the distractions she will see in the trial ring (like a judge calling gambler numbers – although I have sometimes had judges talk to me in the middle of a run, bizarre but true LOL!)
You can start her at the very end of the board on the barrel side, to get even more speed. Wheeee!As with the uphills, I vote for the cookies already being on the target for the downhills. She had a couple of errors because I think you wanted her to target as you moved past or came back with the treats, but the targeting understanding is not in place yet. So, because downhils (for now) are all about running through the tip – cookies on the target will reward immediately. If she is told she is wrong about the targeting, she will slow down and we don’t want any slowing down. So – cookies on the target here too. Targeting doesn’t meet the downhill game til the board hits the ground, because the ground is part of the cue for it (and the table might end up confusing the issue, because we don’t target on the table).
As for the targeting… use the bang game for that – I think she will find that pretty easy, and that is where she has to choose to do the end position without cookies there – and the board meets the ground.
It is all going to merge together soon, she is doing a really fabulous job!!Tracy
Hi!
I am in total agreement about the teach it – sooooo much easier than the 10,000 other things I was trying to use.He is doing well with the wobble and bounce of this setup – not really weight shifting back but the target being further out is good – you can try lowering to elbow height and see how he feels 🙂 But even if we don’t see the full weight shift here, he is getting plenty of reinforcement for balancing as that board bounces around under him – and that will help when those teeters bounce around too!
Great job!!
Tracy
