Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Good morning! Thank you for the pedigree, I will compare it to the whippet daddy of my pup – I have a friend with a young WildOut whippet and the dog is also amazing. Such nice lines and dogs!!!!
>> Normally when I need more lead out or we are out of stay reps, I cue him back to a treat behind. But with that I can’t really keep connection as he heads back for the treat so we tried to manage without it.
That cookie toss start is something we do with the pups in some of the foundation games – if you toss the treat far enough (while you are already in your lead out position), you can totally make the connection work 🙂 You will get even better at the fine art of cookie tossing LOL!
>>I might end up just having someone hold him at the start line if we are out of stays.
That works! Or if he has a mat behavior or a station, you can try that too as long as it doesn’t slip out from under him. Or, you can do a wing wrap or a cone wrap to start: send him away to a wing or cone and then you will be moving up the line to the official jump #1 ahead of him, same as a lead out.
>> I now distinctly remember looking at the tunnel and not the dog and he’s always going to tell on me when I’m wrong
Ha!! Young dogs are magical for telling us when we are wrong LOL!
>>Just so I’m clear on the timing of the exit line stuff, it’s basically like a flyball drill where we commit them to the box, but start heading to the runback before they make it TO the box. Obviously building up distance as they have the commitment to the obstacle. So my front cross/spin might theoretically be finished before he’s fully taken off for the jump?>>
Yes, exactly – countermotion so that we are turned and gone before they arrive at their destination (jump or box). Do you ever do ‘pop offs’ in flyball training (might be a different name in different areas) where we are close to the box and cue the turn then we turn and exit towards the dog in a 90 degree line, to enoucrage more “snap” and turn on the box – basically an over rotated exit. Not sure I am explaining it clearly 🙂 But it is early commitment and exit to get great turns.
We could really go down the rabbit hole of how flyball and agility commitment behaviors can help each other! My jump line commitment training has saved my butt on a number of occasions in flyball! LOL!
T
Wheeee! She seemed to really like this one and she was terrific at finding the jump! Nice! A couple of little suggestions for this set up then ideas on how to progress it:
– on the reps where you were stationary and sending her ahead, you can give her the go on cue before she enters the tunnel (and again when she exits) so she exits looking straight. She was looking at you a tiny bit. And on those reps, you can throw sooner (as she is one the way to the jump) so she doesn’t collect to turn back to you (that is where some dogs will slow way down or drop bars)
– when you get way ahead (nice hustle!!) she had no trouble finding the jump but she was looking at you a little – I think it was because you were looking ahead. So add a little more connection to her eyes by turning your head back to her as you run, so she can see the connection and will feel more confident looking at the jump.You covered most of the ideas in the training set up! I think the only one you didn’t do was being waaaay ahead and really later (I think it will be easy for her :))
So – you can definitely add more distance between the tunnel exit and the jump! This was a pretty good distance already, but you can work up to adding in another 10 or 15 feet to this 🙂
The other thing to add is getting her to drive ahead as you are behind on the bigger distances – if you go all the way to the tunnel and touch it, she will need to drive forward when that jump ifs soooo far away – and motion might be a distraction for her if you are moving (or not, she might not be distracted by it at all haha) If it is no problem to drive ahead, add in lateral distance and see how far away you can be while she is driving ahead!
She was looking forward really nicely, so you can balance this a bit by cuing and rewarding a turn on the tunnel entry (and doing a front cross before she enters) so she doesn’t go straight unless cued.Great job!!
TracyHi! This is also looking really good! She was definitely thinking her way through it but she got it right 🙂 Nothing more needs to be done with the handling at this distance – it helped her see what she needed to. She was beginning to offer more of a canter than a trot on the last couple of reps, and that is what we want. Usually that develops by the 2nd or 3rd session – so try another session with the 4 wings and see if she bounces/canters more. When that bouncing percolates and she bounces more than trots, you can add the 5th wing! You can also go back to 3 wings and shorten the distances – so that will ask her to make the lead changes faster 🙂 which will also require you to handle faster 🙂 The ideal distance to get it to eventually would be 4 or 5 feet.
Great job!
TracyThis looks really good!!! She has it figured out 🙂 Perfect timing for the review… On Saturday, you’ll get the next steps for this one 🙂 Great job!!
Alrighty, here is the link! I will post it in a separate thread too 🙂 It is a game to help the pups discriminate between the wing to wrap and the tunnel – it doesn’t discuss connection at all, but you can see how we teach the verbal and physical cues 🙂
The games being added this week will address connection for these turns specifically as well – stay tuned!
TracyHello and welcome to you and Mouse and Carl!!! I am excited that you are here!!
First off, I will ask the same questions that I ask all whippet owners and sport mix folks: where are they from, what are their lines? These are totally selfish questions to see if they are related to my Whippety dogs and sport mixes 🙂 It has been fun finding all sorts of cousins and part-siblings in these classes!!First up, regular connection with Mouse (who is amazeballs, BTW!!):
Excellent connection on the start line and release! And, Mouse definitely prefers when your dog-side arm is lower – he can see your eyes and upper body better. On the first run, your arm was pretty high (notice how he was looking up at you when landing from 1 and from 2, for example). Compare it to the second run: lower arm, he never had to look at you at all: perfect! You could see him both times based on the timing of your verbals (sounded good!) but he saw the commitment cues better with the lower arm.On the next couple of reps, you were not quite far enough ahead to make connection on the first jump (I think he broke his stay on rep 3?) so give yourself one more step of lead out then connect then release to get that smooooooth commitment to jump 2. If you can’t lead out more, you can increase the connection before you release him.
Then he was giving us all sorts of info on the tunnel entry! Thanks, Mouse!! The camera is at a perfect angle: At :47, you cued the tunnel but you were looking ahead with your arm high, and you turned your body. He was behind you so he (correctly) read that as turning to the other end of the tunnel. Good boy! On the next 2 reps at :56 and 1:15, your running line to the tunnel entry was perfect! But your arm was high which brings your connection forward – so he still didn’t commit. (Bear in mind that he is young and he will eventually learn to save you even if connection isn’t perfect :))
But – this is a GREAT training opportunity for connection & commitment!!! As he is approaching the jump before the tunnel, keep your fingers back to his collar, nice and low (magnet fingers!). As you keep moving up the line, keep your arm back to him, look him in the eyes very clearly and say tunnel directly to him. This should turn your upper body directly to the tunnel entry you want and he should commit nicely to it 🙂Exit line connection: holy cow, Carl is a POWERHOUSE! Love it! Whippet/Staffy/otherstuff? You did a great job with your exit line connection here – it was very very clear and Carl was able to drive in hard. Keep moving as you do this, kind of like how we would keep moving in flyball as the dog is driving in to the reward (the only difference is that in agility, we can let them grab the toy and run through it LOL!) The one jump stuff looked good but the jump-to-tunnel reps looked fabulous!! As we start to build this into bigger sequences, you can start to add in a transition. What I mean is that as he exits the tunnel and is on the way to the FC or spin jump, you can start to slow down and then as he passes you, you can do the FC or the spin and move away up the next line. This will challenge his commitment but will also give you more time to execute the move and do the exit line connection, especially on the spins! So basically you are doing the crosses/spins before he has taken off, then you can be running to the next line with your exit line connection. You did a great job of ‘relaxing’ it when you wanted him into the the tunnel and not on the toy. Happy dance!
Great job here! Let me know what you think (and give me all the deets about the dogs LOL!!
TracyHi! Very nice session here!!!! No worries about not doing a lot of wraps – he is great at those so you don’t need a ton of balancing right now.
On the serps – the angle at the start Seemed to help at the beginning, and then it looks like you angled it back into the ‘flat’ position pretty quickly. He did a great job!! And, 2 other factors helped:
On the first side, the toy placement made it slightly more of a post turn than a serp, but that is fine because it made it easier to take the jump and build value, with the toy being less of an obvious distraction. And, doing it on sand slows him down a little so it gives him a little more time to process haha!!!
On the second side – the toy placement was more challenging – I couldn’t see it on the video but his line made it pretty obvious 🙂 he did REALLY well!!! So…. next step is to make the toy placement harder and more of a true serpy slice by putting it out basically parallel to the exit wing of the serp – he will kinda be able to see it as he comes around the send wing, but will need to be able to serp on a tight slice to get to it. You can place it out there and then angle the jump to make it easier to get it started at first. The jump angle can be even more obvious than what you had here, because the toy position will be harder.
Great job, he is really figuring it out and this will allow you to be able to run run run run and not have to help much on the serps 🙂Tracy
Hi! Yes, the 4 footers make the brain hurt because it has to be so quick! That is why I prefer 5 foot bars: easier for both the human and the dog LOL!!
He looks really good in these – lots of good challenges but also so much speed and focus on his work. Yay!!!!
Sends and serps:
the sends are looking good!!! And all of the balance reps looked great, you had good timing, good connection, good verbals – it looks like he had NO questions. He almost popped behind you one time (2nd rep of the fc I think) but that was because you had hit the MM and looked forward, so it was more about a slight break in connection as you cued the reward.
On the serps – a couple of ideas! You can give him a bar to look at – that can help provide a strong visual on the serp jump to draw his eyes off the MM 🙂 And, since he missed it on the first rep of each side: move more slowly through the serp. Motion is the devil sometimes 🙂 so if you are moving slowly, walking, he is more likely to be able to see the serp jump and not just run to the MM. You will need to send to the wing from further away to be in position near the serp jump to move more slowly, but I think he will be fine with that 🙂
One other thing – try not to help by dropping your serp arm back. You can look at your hand or call his name – but I think adding arm motion will end up causing a little too much reliance on it, plus it will cause you to have to time the motion as a cue – too early and you will get a threadle (that happened towards the end of the video, you dropped your arm back as he rounded the wing so he read it as a threadle) . And too late and he will run by the serp jump. So, just leave the arm out there and let him read it 🙂 It will make your life easier in the long run!
One really notable and exciting thing is how well he is already reading the slices – it is a really hard skill for ALL dogs and he is making it look easy. YAY!!!!I loved your first tunnel session!!! Great camera angle. Having the toy out bright and early is helpful!!! Lures are not a bad thing as long as you fade them quickly… which you were doing by the end of the session. It was cool to see that he was turning his head in the tunnel on all the left and right verbals before he exited! And having the toy out there early was good because he was turning in the tunnel but the toy placement added clarity on the exit line. By the end of the session when you were (appropriately) delaying the toy throw, he was already turning to the correct line on both the left and rights. LOVED it!!! And without motion, the GO verbal is harder but the early toy placement really helped! So on the next session, add in a bit of motion – one step sends and then let him see you step away laterally for the left and right. And big acceleration for the GO GO GO! You might need to start further back or from a wing, because his speed was impressive and he was SUPER excited to play 🙂
On the second tunnel video – actually, this is a pretty good session too! I know you mentioned it was harder, I think it was probably just uncomfortable but overall went really well. You got progressively earlier on your left cues (and he maintained commitment) and there was a clear difference in the verbal/handling for the GO plus you got ahead to make connection when you wanted the go line to the far wing. The only thing I would tweak is on the left and right verbals, let him see the body language to match it – a little decel/standing up then and obvious turning away (exaggerate if needed :)) Your verbals were good but you were turning and facing forward, so that adds more propulsion than we need on the left or right. So if he hears the verbals and see you also turning, he will turn tighter. He *was* turning left and right, but still figuring out how tight the line was and a little more body language will help establish it. His commitment looked great and his wing commitment also looked great! And you were rocking the connection. So I don’t think you need to play a smaller version of this, you can do this big crazy one and you’ll see him continue to get better and better at it 🙂
Great job!!
TracySo cool – he is a great tugger too!! I just adore this little guy and you are doing a great job with him!
He had a question on the first wrap – I think because you made it a little more challenging by having him go to the inside (between the wing and the tunnel) and turn away from you. The voice was saying wrap and the body was saying tunnel 🙂 He found it easier when you sent him around the outside of the wing (so he was turning towards you and turning towards the tunnel) – you can start that way and reward all that! That little warm up made it easier for when you repeated the hard challenge of having him come to the inside of the wing and turn away (he nailed it at the end, after the tunnel). His response to the tunnel verbal looks *awesome*!! Good boy!
He didn’t need a lot of body support for the tunnel cue, so you can keep being pretty stationary on those – but for the wraps, try to use a little more connection and make sure your feet are pointing to the wing (not the tunnel) to help him out. He is a smartie, so he won’t need you to do that for long, but it will help get him started on the road to perfect verbal understanding.
Great job!
TracyHowdy! He is so funny – that delay before he released where he looked at you like “wait, don’t you like the stay better than the jump?” LOL!!!
I compared this video to the 3 foot distance – I like his form on the 3 foot distance better. On that one, he organized immediately and bounced between the 2 jumps. On this one, he tapped his front feet on the ground before jump 1 then took and extra stride between the jumps. But… it is possible that he was thinking about the sit and about you, and not about the target. So, you can try the next session with one rep at this distance and one rep at 3’6” and one rep at 3’ – all with you right at the target (looks like a pet tutor?). It is good to obsess about finding the perfect jumping form because it will be so much better for when he is on full courses 🙂
About the start line position: in general, a down is fine for when you are doing sequences or the zig zag game here… but a down for this set point (and the jumping game I am adding this week) will make it too hard for getting organized and pushing off the rear for the first jump. That is because to get out of the down position and over a jump, the dogs have to stand, move forward, then shift back – too hard to do when you are 6 inches from a jump LOL!! On a real sequence, he would be 10 feet away and then he would have plenty of room. So, if the sit is hard or causing stress – maybe a stand stay? I don’t mind that he currently likes his sit stay better than he likes his jumping – that is GREAT because it is easier to shift the value to the jumping than it is to convince the dogs to stay if they already love the jumping. 🙂
Let me know if that makes sense – nice work here!!
TracyHi! I am loving your makeshift course, very clever!!! yay! The exit line connection looks fabulous: just keep moving through it as you exit the cross, because staying in motion will make it harder to get and maintain that connection (plus it increases speed and tightens the turns because she will drive so hard back to you – but we are all good in the speed and tightness department for now, she is great!!)
About the wrong courses or u-turns – On the send, try to keep the send arm calmer, with fingers pointed more to her collar (which also means lower). When you use it to indicate the send out ahead too much, that will break connection which then also breaks commitment. That could be the cause of any errors – using random things like lawn ornaments is great because there is no pre-determined value and you will get a really clear picture of how your connection supports or breaks commitment. 🙂
great job! Have a safe trip home!
TracyHi! You and Cody looked great here!! I watched it a few times and it looks like your connection was rock solid. You even saw the moment on the lead out when he was looking away then looked back at you, then you released. Yay! He was looking out to the side for some reason but you were really connected so it was not a disconnection or handling error. You can turn sooner to get a tighter turn on the middle pinwheel jump: because he is big with a long stride, you can start turning as he is jumping the jump after the tunnel.
2 additional challenges to add now 🙂 More speed! On a full sized course, you would be hustling more: so in the smaller space, put the bars way down and run as close as possible to each jump and the tunnel. That can simulate the feel of a real course and might add challenge to the connection.
The other thing you can add is the verbal cue element – timing it properly. Knowing Cody’s stride length, I think you should try to start saying the verbal as he is taking off for the previous jump, rather than waiting for landing. You can start it and then repeat it when he lands, but starting it as he is lifting off will make it early & timely 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyYes! I will post it this afternoon (currently sitting in the parking lot of the emergency vet – all will turn out OK but hopefully we can get the dog fixed up ASAP!!) basically it is a proofing game that we have been teaching the pups, so I will post it up for you all! Thanks for the reminder, you knew I would forget LOL!!!
T
Howdy!
>>So Kindle is a Blue Cedar dog out of Ginger/Tac. She is essentially/mostly BC/Border Terrier/Whippet/JRT in that order. Everyone thinks she is a JRT because of her color…although you must’ve noticed her whippet body! She is scruffy perfection as far as I’m concerned! >>
I was guessing she was a Blue Cedar! My mixy mix, Hot Sauce, is half Blue Cedar. And my guess Kindle’s whippet line goes to Poeta? If so, they are totally also related to my two puppies. Fun!
>>As for reinforcement hierarchy, that is tough! Kindle loves all things lol.
This is a high quality problem. You can go from super excited voice/body/toy play as the highest value, all the way down to a cheerio and a quiet ‘good girl’ for the not-as-delightful reps.
>>Kindle does care about being right, very much actually
I got the impression that she over-cares, meaning she cares so much she tried soooo hard on the next rep which sometimes results in jumping higher! My Blue Cedar girl is the same way on certain things: “That wasn’t perfect? I will try HARDER”. LOL!
>>sometimes I get so frustrated with her jumping the ‘no’ comes out as a reaction, sometimes she scares me! I will definitely be better about that, because deep down under the crazy, she is a sensitive soul!>>I feel that! Half the time we are just trying to prevent them from breaking themselves in half LOL!
>>Ok…Team Chill…that I’m struggling with! So…my human life…I’m boring as…I am not the life of the party, I’m introverted. BUT, when it’s me and my dogs…especially when we play…I get…excited! LOL
Same here – I am most definitely not chill AT ALL in fact I am rather twitchy… so my mantra is “Fake your chill” with the young dogs. Totally faking it, but the dogs think I am chill so it works nicely.
>> I have found with Kindle I need to handle aggressively, but not be wild myself. THIS I am struggling to figure out!
It is a normal struggle with a fast, young dog: you need to move fast but be smooth. We will get it sorted out!
>>Did I mention how much I hate lead outs? If I were a dog…I would probably be Kindle…we are a good match! lol I have been telling myself I need to LO more…I just have a hard time making myself. Do you teach impulse control for humans?>>
This is where you will totally need to fake your chill 🙂 Fake it til ya make it LOL!!! I carry something to keep myself calm in practice – check out the running with drinks game from the live class 🙂
>> While I think I generally do have good connection (thanks to Kindle teaching me it is a must!) I think I struggle with keeping connection and still handling. That and the whole picture of not running wild, but delivering her the information timely and handling aggressively.>>
I agree that your connection is generally strong! She is only 2, which means she is still learning sooooo many things and you are learning how to handle her – it takes a couple of years to get it smooth and into a good groove.
>>Obviously the spin completely turns your shoulders and gives a more clear cue of the turn than the wrap…do I just need to move sooner with the wrap to get a better turn? Work her head turning on that type of jump? She also had the worst jump form over that one. I felt like she needed to see a rhythm change more as she approached the jump?>>
Yes yes and yes 🙂 I think of it as a transition: as she is exited the previous obstacle before a wrap, you start to decelerate. Then as she is passing you and beginning to commit, you are rotating. That decel is the key!
>>I hope you don’t grow tired of me too quick! Luckily my dog is super cool! LOL
Ha!!! I think we will have fun!
T
