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Hi! She did a great job on the sideways and backwards sends here! She seemed perfectly comfortable with the sideways sending – she cracked me up when she sent herself as you switched sides LOL! Good girl! She thought the backwards sending was much weirder (understandably haha!!) and slowed down on those. One thing that will help with the backwards sending is if you turn your head to look back at the prop, at the same time you move your arm & leg back to it. So you will be looking at her with your arm and leg next to you (like you were doing) and then on the send, let your eyes follow your hand back to the prop (along with your leg) so she sees you shift your connection back to where you want her to go. That can give her a little more support to go on the backwards stepping so we will get more speed.
Question – when your run full courses, what does ‘go’ mean’? For some folks, it means run in full on extension. For others, it means ‘take the obstacle’. If you are going to use it to mean full on extension, you will probably not want to use it here (because this is collection). You can just use an interim cue like “touch” or “hit” or something that doesn’t have a meaning anywhere else. If it is a general “take the obstacle” cue, then you can keep using it here. Let me know what you think!
Great job!
TracyHi! Great job with the review! She remembered it nicely. Good job moving to the larger wing, she seemed to have zero trouble with it. Nice! You moved back from the wing a little bit and she seemed fine with it, so you can add one more step away from the wing (you don’t need more than one, because once we get past about 6 feet away, we don’t really want her offering it, we will be adding cues soon). One little tweak – with your hands up with the cookies, she was looking up at you and ideally she keeps her head down low (thinking ahead for jumping form). So, you can have cookies in each hand like you did, but keep your hands lower or even behind your back – and you can toss the cookies in sooner before she has a chance to look up at you. If she is looking up before you can even get the cookies in (she is pretty quick!) then you can have 2 food bowls (one on each side of you) and drop the treats into those – that will give her a focal point for now, until we add more.
Great job!!
TracyHi!
I think, as a youngster, we are still cracking the code on the best training approaches for him while he is still sorting out how to moderate his own internal states of arousal. It is all totally normal 🙂 Sometimes arousal goes one way and he gets mouthy (sends video above), sometimes it is perfect (decel video here) and sometimes it goes the other way and he checks out (wing wrap video here). So we are going to play with cracking the code of what he needs while he learns to moderate his internal states of arousal and handle frustration. He is really young, so it is normal that baby dogs don’t know how to do this naturally.In general, super high rates of success and rates of reinforcement move things in the right direction (and very short sessions are the key to that as well). And, more about the transitions below.
First, the videos:
The decel game looks really good. Great job with your decel timing and reward delivery, plus your rotations are at just the right speed for him to work his body around. Yay! And the food keeps him in a lower state of arousal, so he had no bag language or velociraptor moments here. Perfect! The treats and your movement creating a really nice balance of arousal.Wing wraps – the chewing was making me laugh… whippets are chewers LOL! The session started off really well – he was offering this really nicely. He was thoughtful and ‘leading’ from his head through the turns. But I think the arousal level dropped at about :50 because the ratio of reinforcement to length of session was skewed (stopping to chew contributes to that). If you can keep the session length to 45 seconds or less, and have the rate of reinforcement come faster, you will see a different level of engagement. So, using this game as an example – because there is no movement from you, we can get the cookies moving faster to get the arousal into the right zone for keeping him with you: with the upright nice and close, be quicker on getting the cookies in: as soon as he lifts his head from one target, plop the cookie in the other target (you can even move them further apart so it is more of a toss, he will like that!). I bet you can get twice the amount of reinforcement in during the 45 seconds. And don’t up the ante in the middle of the session yet by moving the pole further out, he lost his train of thought. And at the end of the 45 seconds, you can transition out of the session.
So speaking of transition out of the session, I think he needs a ‘wind down’ when he is working in higher arousal (toys!). There are several ways to do it:
– do some low key tricks for treats while you fade the toy out of the picture
– toss a small handful cookies around the floor or in the grass so he has to sniff them out to find them
– give him a stuffed kong or a chew toy
(all of the food stuff will lower his heart rate which helps!)
– shape him to go on a mat, where he can end his session with a chew bone or with cheese in a kong toy
– you just sit and chill with him in those moments, so the session doesn’t end with the toy and the momma going away (that could be increasing arousal).
You can also do this in the middle of a session (like between 45 second mini-sessions) to help him balance his arousal.Let me know what you think! We will crack the code then it will be smooth sailing 🙂
TThanks for the sends/driving ahead! He is doing a great job with the sending/driving ahead skill, it is pretty easy for him. Yay!
Question: is he happy to go back and forth between food and toys? I scrolled around above and don’t see you mentioning any problem with it, but I will need to look again so I figured I would ask. The reason I mention it that, as a young dude with a lot arousal, there are some things we can do to help him stay more centered and work to get rid of the moments where he uses bad language LOL or tries to chomp your flesh a little.
I think the key is going to be transitions: he is getting aroused in the transitions from releasing the toy to the collar grab (or at the end of a session as you mention below). I saw some of that here in this video: some foul language/open mouth when you took his collar on one of the reps, plus the arm grabbing in some other games. So let’s work clean/smooth transitions that will help him center his arousal, as he learns to self-modulate.You will feel like you need 3 arms, apologies in advance 🙂
So on this game, for example, have food with you as well as the toy (we might have to play with different values to get the right balance):
start with tugging
get the toy back, give him a treat.
gently take his collar, give him a treat while holding the collar.
toss the toy – send him to it – tug
repeat 🙂And for now, try not to do any hand play or smack the baby or touching his flanks during play – that seems to get him aroused, and then he doesn’t always know what to do with himself when he is in that zone, so you are getting some of the noise/chomping.
We can use this game to get the transitions going and figure out what he needs to help modulate the arousal. Let me know if it makes sense! See below for ideas on how to end a session too.
T
Hi!
>>.I think it’s because the treats are so slow (in his view) to dispense
Ha! That made me laugh out loud. He is a man of many opinions LOL!!!!
>>And I really like the second exercise and your suggestions are GREAT! I think driving in “tight” is going to be a skill that doesn’t come naturally for him and we’re going to need to “cultivate” it
With each new generation of dogs, I realize what I could have done better with the previous generation… with the current ‘in their prime’ generation (like my Voodoo and Nacho), I personally did not spend NEARLY enough time on drive to handler so convincing them to turn is like trying to stop a speeding freight train. Too much emphasis on fancy stuff, not enough on the “dude, decel means drive to me and turn”. The younger generation (2 and under) has had more emphasis on the meaning of decel and their turning ability is terrific 🙂 Live and learn, right? Sly will love driving in tight because he loves da momma and da cookies 🙂
Have fun!
TracyHi!
She is doing really well here! Super sessions!
On the decel session: when you are doing the cookie throws outside, you can use a food bowl as a target to either toss the treat into or plant the treat in it and send her – that will cut down the time she spends after getting the treat, looking to see if there are any more out there LOL! Otherwise, she was really lovely driving directly into your hand there. Keep feeding her nice and close to your body, that really helped her. The only tweak I have for you is to turn slowly when you add the turns in – she is a youngster with a long body, so she needed to keep her butt in tighter and turning more slowly (for now) will help that 🙂
I think she is ready for you to add a bit of motion – let her see you moving away as she turns to you after her cookie, then as she takes her first step towards you, you decelerate and get your hand cue in. That will help her drive in with even more power and also decelerate into the turn.The cone work looks fabulous – great timing on your cookie drops, she was perfect on the cone! You can move it a little further away now and also start standing up! She is totally on board with this game – dd you see her keep playing it, heading to the target, even when you stood up and took the cone at the very end? LOL! Cracked me up, she is so clever 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi there!
Great sessions here! She was a superstar, doing new & hard things while there was exciting stuff going on nearby: very mature for a 7 month old puppy!!!The sideways and backwards commitments are looking terrific – she was very happy to go smack the thing on both of the cues!! Your backwards sending was backwards enough 🙂 you couldn’t be fully backwards because you needed to connect so you were as backwards as possible LOL!!
Small details to consider for the next session:
You can have your cookie reward ready before the send, so you can deliver it low and fast when she returns. She was being very helpful and popping her feet up off the ground in the short time between the her return to you and the delivery. Since you don’t want her feet off the ground (and I agree with and support that!) faster cookies are good. You can also tweak the placement/delivery by tossing it low and past you, so she keeps moving and doesn’t consider hopping up to get the treat 🙂
For now, hold your send cue position until she is about a step away from the prop when you are at that distance away from it. You released it a tiny bit early at :30 and :47 (for the distance).
And, starting closer to the prop: release it a little earlier when you are very close to the prop (which will make for a nice seque into what we will be adding to the behavior on Saturday).
Good job rewarding for the no-go moments so she was happy to wait for the cue 🙂 You did a great job with the shift of connection, which she was then able to match in terms of shifting her connection from ‘handler focus’/opt in to the ‘obstacle’/line focus. That is terrific!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyFound them! Sorry I missed them!
This is looking really good! For the cookie throws: outdoors you can use a food bowl as a target to toss the cookie into, or leave it in there and send him back to it – that can reduce the cookie hunting in the grass 🙂
He did well on all of the drive to handler!! He might be a little stronger turning right but he did well on both, I really couldn’t see much difference, especially on the 2nd video. I think it was more about timing than a side preference. On the 2nd video, you can start to decelerate sooner (and you can get the hand cue in nice and low as you start the decel). Move forward until he has finished his cookie and has started heading towards you – then decelerate pretty immediately (he will still be plenty far form you) – that will give him more time to set up his collection.
You were waiting a little later so he was not quite as tight as he could be. I think he likes the pivoting, he was turning his head nicely and staying close to you!!As you add more distance (like you did on the 2nd video), you can add in a little more eye contact as you move away – that way he knows which side of you to be on. On the shorter distances on the first video, he had no questions but when you got way ahead on the 2nd video, he was was drifting behind you a bit to figure out which side to be on.
Great job here!!
TracyHi! Nice work on this, it is going really well!!
>>Moved to the kitchen. Cap started sliding on the laminate floor so I put a yoga mat platform underneath it.
That was a smart move – as this game picks up speed, he will need the grippy surface.
>> In the middle he started getting pretty mouthy in his excitement so I paused a bit and let him settle.
You were doing a bit of hand play around his face, ‘smack da baby’, on the ready game there, which will generally elicit that mouthy response. So, you can do the ready dance but your hand more near your belly and less around his cheeks, and I don’t think he will be mouthy.
>>– Should I be standing up more when I engage him in the ready game? (he seems to have no problems with me leaning down to him though)
Yes, definitely stand up more – partially because it will be easier to add teh next steps (coming on Saturday :)) and partially because it will prevent the mouthiness (hands further from his choppers haha). You can use a little upper body tension to build anticipation without bending as much.
Interestingly, with food involved, the leaning over was not an issue as much as with the toy (also, you were inside which is more comfy).
>>– What kind of distance should I be working towards?
For now, about 6 feet away is all we need. This looked good, and he was doing a great job with his hits!!
>>– Are my sideways and backwards movements too exaggerated or is that good for this stage?
I think they look great! Very crisp and clear, and he did really well 🙂 Great job on this!
THi!
>>What do you make of this? I tossed the whole long toy so he wouldn’t grab the part 2ft away and he just continued to stare at it and then lay down…twice. Distance too far maybe? So I did a recall to the toy to get him moving more and then he does a deliberate send out to the toy. I cropped out some of the extended playing between the tosses and also the warm up game where he was tugging well…right before he decided to stare at the toy and lie down.
It looks like it might have been too much pressure, in terms of the restraint plus bending over plus being outside, plus you were not moving – and the toy has value but not enough yet to offset the pressure. When you got him moving on the recall, the excitement level came up so he did engage, but he still didn’t engage with the same excitement as he does when chasing you.
So, you can just sit on the ground and throw the toy around – no real driving ahead goal, but mainly to just get him enjoying the toy time outside with the big toy, and with less body pressure.
That will build the value of the ‘get it’ of the toy in different places, and then we can layer in the restraint and standing up with the toy later on. He might find the pressure and environment perfectly fine with a giant cookie or food toy, so you can totally build the skills separately: drive ahead to food and drive ahead to toy. I always work both with my pups and I also always find that one skill is stronger than the other early in the training process.I also do a lot of latent learning on these games: give the dogs 2 or 3 days off before repeating the games, so their puppy brains can wire it all in, and then it is fine 🙂 So you might find that if you try it again on Friday or Saturday, he will find it to be easy peasy 🙂
Let me know what you think!
T
Hi!
Doing it from the stay worked nicely and he did like the tugging between reps 🙂
One thing that I think might help: think of the toy across the body as part of the cue, not as the reward. This will make the reconnection earlier and get the side change earlier. You were blinding, then showing dog-side arm then when he changed sides, you were presenting the toy across your body. But that made the reconnection late, so he had a few questions (especially on the 2nd one, as you noted). So – don’t wait to see him change sides before presenting the toy across the body – use that toy across as the cue to get him to change sides. It works because it pushes the dog-side arm back and away to unveil the connection (not because the toy is there :))>>For comparison, I have some drive to handler videos in a thread from July 12 (5pm-ish)
I will go look, I might have missed them when originally posted? If they were added in later, the software doesn’t tell me.
Nice work on these blinds!!
T
Ah! Small world! Cheese is in my flyball region. I hope to meet him… someday… LOL! Dog sports are a long ways off at this point.
And scruffy dogs are the BEST dogs (yes, I am biased haha)
Sounds perfect! Little itty bitty games in the backyard will help, I am sure he will be able to play the games out there very soon 🙂
T
Hi!
Wilson: run 1:Very nice opening in terms of connection and handling choices!! So fun to see you going for the blinds 🙂 especially 8-9!
You do run quietly with Wilson, which is fine sometimes but also he does need to know where he is going after tunnels, for example: from 2-3 he really had to catch himself on 3 so you should use a name call there.The error on the backside at 11 (:41) is a training question from Wilson. You did a great send then ran forward to your next position, so you were on the takeoff side when he was and you were looking towards the blind cross. The handling was spot on! But he is probably used to you helping him a lot more and it seems that he doesn’t have a default “take the jump’ on backsides when you takeoff. So we can train that so you can handle the way you wanted to: on a low bar, push to the backside like you did here, and takeoff *without helping him take the bar* but as you takeoff, toss a reward in behind you. That will help him learn to look for the bar and not chase you – and then when he begins to default to it, we change the timing of the reward until after he takes it as a default when you move through.
At 1:03 you were helping even more and he still had a question. He did fune at 1:22… but you stayed there and helped the commitment, which made the blind late and you didn’t get as far ahead as you could have. So, it is a training hole, but easy and fun to fix!I will bug you a little bit on verbals for him – I think tunnel verbals are really important for Wilson.
On the 12 tunnel at 1:28 – the verbal was late so he was wide. It was late at 1:40 also, so you had to threadle him in (and his name is a little too general for that line) and he pulled the bar. You got it on the next rep, but using verbals at the 6 foot info line before he goes in will help smooth out the exit for that all-important first rep (based on how it was built, I suggest a wrap verbal before the tunnel because it was a really tight exit.>> I know I pulled up before the last jump 😬. I was worried about the wall in front of me, which the other ladies convinced me that keeping the bar up was much more important than a wall face plant. 🙄
Haha, well, yes and no LOL!!!! If there is a jump near the wall with insufficient room, just make it a 12” jump. He doesn’t need to do full height on all the jumps!
>>Demi’s first sequence felt like a blur.
Running young dogs always feel like a blur! You were definitely working the connection and it looked good! Now we will get you working the earlier timing – we need the timing to be sooner before the bars go up.
>>I’m struggling with Demi’s verbals in general.
When you tackle a sequence or course, try to pick one or two really important spots or one or two important verbals, and make sure you get those in (rather than trying to get ALL the verbals in). Focus on a couple of super important ones and then it will get easier and easier to add more.
On the run:
Great connection! And you were pushing hard, which si also great! Now, start to trust her more and get the crosses started sooner: the FCs at 3-4 and 7-8 started when she was landing (causing the dropped bar at 4 on the 2nd run)! The BC 9-10 was a little earlier but can still be sooner: when she exits the previous obstacle, trust her, cue the next one and start the cross. She will either get it perfectly or let us know what she needs for more training.
Also, focus on those perfect path running lines: at 7, you were moving backwards so she landed long then had to turn back. On the BC 9-10, you were running to between the uprights of 9 so she didn’t catch the line to 10 til after landing on the first run. She tried to adjust in the air on the 2nd run (3:16) but pulled the bar.
On the RC line at the end – it is great to practice the RCs! You can get on the RC pressure diagonal sooner, almost as sooner as you pass the wing of the 3rd to last jump. You drove her straight til takeoff of the 2nd to last jump (2:38) then cut in, so she read the RC really late (and verbals will help with all of that :)) On the 2nd run at 3:20, you did a great job of setting up the RC line as she approached the 3rd to last jump – but then you stepped away and drove forward til takeoff at 3:21 so she didn’t read it. Set it like you did at 3:20, facing the center of the bar of that 2nd to last jump – then move forward towards the center of the bar there so she can see the RC coming sooner.Wilson: Hard to see exactly why he dropped the bar at 3 on the first rep, I think there was a stop then start with your motion 2-3 so he was not sure how you wanted him to approach it. You were much smoother on the 2nd rep and he kept it up!
On the 2nd rep – one thing to consider is NOT always jumping him at 24 on these courses… he read the lines but was struggling with the jumping effort. I am a big advocate for working courses on lower bars to save the dog’s body.
Timing of the FC 6-7 at 3:57 was really good! Work the perfect path – try to be moving towards 7 and not out past 6 – he knew a turn was coming but went towards you so landed heavy and had to turn after landing.
LOVED LOVED LOVED your FC 7-8 at 3:59: gorgeous timing, connection and line. YAY!!
It looks like you started your push cue right before he entered the tunnel #8 at 4:03, so he was able to read the turn on the exit rather than continue straight. That was an effective use of verbals!
On the serpentine line: he is reading it really well – try to stay much closer to the line the whole time, you were pulling back and forth so it was harder for him to read the next section, going into the FC and then to the tunnel at the end, creating some zig zags there.
Demi read the opening line really nicely! As with Wilson, work the perfect path on your crosses – your timing of starting the FC at 6-7 at 4:46 was good bt the running line was pretty wide past 6. She also needs a bit more turn cue on 5 to be able to find 6 (she passed it on that rep). The second rep had a little bit more decel into 5 which set her up to find 6 nicely (yay!) but same thoughts about the line for the FC 6-7: it should be on her perfect path towards 7 rather than heading past 6.
Great FC on 7 at 5:15!
The push verbal on the 8 tunnel at 5:16 and 5:34 was a little late (she was in the tunnel) and also she probably needs a turn verbal on the tunnel exit there: push applies to jump 9, and we needed her to know there was a right turn on the tunnel exit, so a right verbal would be more helpful.You added her name sooner at 5:47 and 6:12 but she probably needed it with less motion in order to be successful – remember that 2-failure rule: if she can’t get it right, twice, you must make it easier to get success (and especially don’t tell her ‘no’ for driving on a line, you will lost smart phone time!)
You did it with less motion on the last 2 reps which really helps, so try to dial back the motion sooner if she fails in there. And the name call definitely helps, and that is a great place to put the ‘right’ verbal in play!So, going back to verbals with Demi – take chunks of the big courses, maybe 6 or 8 obstacle sequences, and isolate them to work the details of the verbals (so you use the directionals and not just her name) as well as the timing and perfect path. The connection has really come together because you really focused on it!! So now we can focus on the timing (that should be the next priority, I think) and then the path and adding more verbals.
Nice work here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
>>after being drilled on connection…I felt guilty and weird with the purposeful DISconnection. You are messing with my brain!>>
I know, it feels so weird and then when we are connected, it feels so nice! Don’t feel guilty: disconnection allows us to run faster and the dogs really enjoy that, plus it helps us show better info in the harder sections and the dogs appreciate that too.
On the video:
Yes, he was totally looking at you during the straight line reps and that was why he had the zig zag lines. No worries, though: he kept the bars up and found the line, so it will continue to get smoother and smoother.On the backside reps – on the first rep you were a little too close to the entry wing on the send, but the second and third rep (:30 and :38) you were center of the bar and he went beautifully to the backside.
You are going to laugh… you can actually disconnect for LONGER on those backside/serp/bind/german turn moves: you don’t have to reconnect until you are past the exit wing – that will allow you to get up the line faster AND show the correct tunnel entry.
Speaking of correct tunnel entry: At :32 you used the tunnel verbal but your motion did not support it and you disconnected (you were kind of looking at him but your shoulders turned towards the garage and so did you line of motion) so he came off the tunnel entry. When you reconnect, look at him and run more towads the tunnel entry and he wil be able to get on the line to it. You were clearer on the last rep there but you can be more connected to move forward to it for one or two steps more.On the 3rd video: I think all 3 of these reps looked really strong!! You had excellent motion and verbals running up the line, so he had no questions about it (no zig zag) and you were easily at the wing to reconnect and threadle or wrap – he had no questions. NICE!!!!!
>>We did not attempt the 2 that involved full knowledge of a threadle.
You can do the one-jump threadle game and add in moving away as his head turns to the jump bar!
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
