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Good morning Nancy!
Those backside wraps are hard! I think they are actually one of the hardest turns in agility. On reps 1-2-3 where she had questions, a couple of ideas for you to help as you play with these:
Position: move your running line over to be heading to where the jump bar meets the backside wing (right at the jump cups) so she can see the whole backside wing. You will get there ahead of her a bit (which is perfectly fine), so stay there when you get there. You can turn a little bit sideways and use your arm and leg to step her around the wing, but don’t block the wing. I think you were blocking the wing here and pushing into her line, so she pinged away from you.
Connection: as you were sending her to the backside, you were looking forward and pointing forward, so that drew her attention up to you. Try to keep your eyes on her eyes so that she sees your shoulders pointing to the line (no need to point forward at all on these).
Timing: The key word here is patience (I hate that word hahahaha!!) When you get to position where the wing meets the bar, you can be a little sideways but you need to stay there until she is past you. You were trying to move forward too early and it pushed her off (and she shared her opinion hahahaa!) For now, stay there until she is passing the wing and has turned her head to the bar, then move forward (while maintaining connection).
On rep 4, you had the best position and most patience out of the 4 reps, so she got it, yay! Be careful of turning your shoulders to face the takeoff side of the bar too much, because that might end up looking like a slice cue.
The rest of the sequence looked awesome! Terrific running and connection 🙂 You were a little late on the RC cue on the 2nd rep for the last jump but then you nailed it on rep 4.
I found a video that shows a similar wrap on 3: (at :23, 1:08, 1:21), it is cued up to start at :23
Let me know if the visual makes sense – you can see that I am behind the wing, and since I get there ahead of the dog, I slow down and wait with connection (patience is SO HARD) and then when he is past me and looking at the wing, I take off again. Let me know if that makes sense!
Talk to you soon!
TracyGorgeous!!! She really appreciates the lower hands in terms of being able to see your upper body & connection. And you had a perfect running line 6-7, so she was super tight! She didn’t even have time to share her opinion there LOL!!! She barks a little on this, which is fine – But I think when she barks a LOT then we can clarify the info. I don’t mind barking, but it does gives us good information when the dog shares opinions 🙂 Great job on this run!!
Hi Janet!
>>You mentioned a “Zig Zag” drill in Barb’s post. I’ve never seen this drill. I kind of get it in context with the post, but can you explain in a little more detail what this exercise is teaching the dog, and what one should work towards with this exercise?>>
I like to give the dogs jump education. The zig zag drill is a jump grid, designed to help the dog understand how to execute the somewhat ‘sideways’ jumping that is required for slices, serpentines, and, in particular, threadle slices, backside slices and backside serps. Slicing is really hard for the dogs and that is where we see a lot of bars down. Many big dogs jump into the wing too – Barb’s youngster hit it with his shoulder, one of my big dogs used to do that too, and I have seen big dogs jump into it head-first. Eek!! Small dogs tend to NOT jump into the wing as much, I imagine it hurts more! But the smalls also need the jump education.
As you saw on the video clips (both mine and Barb’s) – we start off by showing the dog the general idea of ‘reading’ highly angled bars, even though his line is basically straight (it is a difficult visual for the dog). When that goes well, we progressively angle the jumps so the bars are “flatter” – and that is when you see the dog giving us more of a back-and-forth pattern (thus the name zig zag :)). We still want the dog to bounce these and not “patter” the front feet or add strides, so we can increase or decrease the distance to fit the needs of the individual dog (my 20″ dog gets a different distance than my 16″ dog).
The goal is that the dogs can bounce 5 jumps set up flat with wings touching/overlapping and the jump bars can go up to a medium height. This can take a couple of sessions, or weeks, or months! It is not intended to be done every day.
I *might* with some highly-angulated dogs, do the 3 jump grid with taller bars but that depends on the dog. In general, a lot of the grids can do more harm than good if we work them at full height.
This grid is also a good strengthening grid, so I whip it out as part of my conditioning program too.
The overall goal is that the understanding the grid creates transfers over into understanding how to approach and jump slice lines on serps, backsides, and threadle slices.
Let me know if that makes sense!
TracyHey, good morning!!!! Great job getting these in, between bouts of rain haha!!!
Overall: these looked amazing. For real! 100% perfect connection. Great turns. You have clearly worked your skills to the point that they look great. My thoughts are below for each rep – I really only had a question about one element and that is more in the ‘nit picking’ department. These allowed us to see what the best timing is for getting those turns. Here are specifics:
1st rep – backside slice – very good! see if you can do it while you keep moving, so you can outrun her more across the backside bar. Less of a step to the backside should help you stay in motion, hwile maintaining your strong connection and verbal.
2nd rep – backside wrap – nice! Really excellent timing, rotation, connection. Click/treat for you!
3rd rep & 4th rep – both front side wraps – I think you are really cracking the code of her collection cues – very nice wraps here and I am impressed with how early you can cue them. Being able to get commitment while you cue early and leave is sooooo helpful with her speed! It keeps you way ahead. Nice connection and verbals here too.
5th rep – :21 – a rear cross – I am assuming you wanted the rear cross here, because it looked great 🙂 I couldn’t hear the verbal and it does look like you rewarded it. Very nice clear distinction between the FC wraps and the rear cross cue there.
6th rep – push to wrap: I loved this rep! Connection: perfect. You were so clear and early with the cues for both that you got great turns on both the backside and the front side wrap. Yesssss!
7th rep – at :29 the first cue on this one was not as clear as the others. Before she took off for 1, you had an arm up and were giving a verbal and started pulling away as she landed – based on that plus position, it almost looked like a threadle cue? but she took the front. Her turn was good and the 2nd wrap was good – but it is possible that it looks too much like a threadle cue and might impact threadling.
Rep 8 – same question as the 7th rep here at :38 (threadle versus wrap cues) – obsessing on it a little bit, the main difference is that your lower body rotation is later – at :38 you are rotating as she is taking off and she is taking off pretty far from the jump. On the other front-side wraps, you are rotating sooner and she is collecting better.
Really nice backside slice commitment AND jumping effort at :41 here! And gorgeous connection from you.Rep 9 – same question at :49 on the first wrap. I went back and compared the wrap handling here to the ones earlier like at :13 and :18 and you were rotated earlier on those, and I think the turns were better.
Rep 10: this wrap kind of split the difference with you going back to turning earlier. The turn was better here! And the RC at :55: niiiiiice!! That is developing into an incredibly strong cue for you and Tokaji!!!
Rep 11: both backside sends were lovely – and your timing on getting out of the send to the next cue (spin at :59, serp at 1:04) – terrific! After the spin, be prepared to turn sooner on the wrap to the next jump, you were a little late and it was really getting underway as she was taking off at 1:01. You’ll probably need to slow down as you exit the spin so you can start the wrap rotation earlier so she sees it before she passes you on the way to the jump.
On the backside serp at 1:04, you can try stepping one step less to the entry wing to see if you can get even further ahead of her exiting the slice, that will be useful for german turns and such.Rep 12:
Whoa this one was great fun to watch! Excellent push at 1:06, look at how early you turn and how that helps set up the collection she did over the bar!
That rear cross-to-blind cross at 1:08-1:09 was a Thing.Of.Beauty. For real!!! Great timing and you got the BC done and reconnected before she had any questions. What an *excellent* tool to get a nice turn without rushing and then still being able to stay way ahead of her. LOVED it!!!!Great job on all of these! Let me know what you think!
Tracy>>“…if that doesn’t produce the weight shit…” I don’t think it will.
>> OMG!!! Clearly I have been listening to the news too much hahahahahahaha
*shiFt hahaha
Video coming soon, editing and loading!
Hi there! Welcome!! I think you will find a little something for both dogs 🙂
>>On the next set of reps, I was I supposed to handle the same way on both sides, or set up on the same side and show the different ways of handling it depending on the exit side. I did the latter.
It is up to you: you can choose the handling based on how you analyze things and what you want to try. I am open to all possibilities!
Demi did really well here!
Rep 1- started with great connection but then you rolled forward so she ended up on the front side bar. A very subtle connection break but yes, don’t block the wing 🙂Backside reps – great connection! And I don’t think the repeated cues are nagging at all! They are informational and really support her. If you were nagging, Demi would slow down or pin her ears, or do the low waggy body thing – she doesn’t let you nag her LOL! She seemed happy with this! And yes…. show her more wing especially on the slices.
Front side of 2 at 1:20: your body said “right” and your reward said “right” but your mouth said “go” so just be careful of which verbal you use.
Next rep at 1:37 was a rear cross: you can start showing her the RC pressure line sooner to help her make the turn sooner. You ran the straight line til she was just about taking off, turning to her right, then you suddenly cut in – she adjusted to make the turn but couldn’t keep the bar up. If you lead out less, you can start pressuring in (kind of towards the center of the bar) when she is no later than halfway between the jumps, and that should set the RC sooner.
2nd Rc Rep – nuch earlier on the RC pressure, and she had a much sweeter turn, yay! You can lead out less – you were far enough ahead that you had to wait for her to pass you. So maybe lead out to the wing of jump 1 and that is it 🙂
The last 2 reps on the RC were NICE! You lead out less, you had more acceleration and a much clear pressure line – note how she was further over on the other side of the jump which means she saw the turn cue earlier. Nice! My only suggestion: plan your words 🙂 On the last rep, you gave a big GO cue… but she was turning left 🙂 The various directionals probably aren’t totally 2nd nature yet (I feel your pain there!) so make sure you plan the words before you run her.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
Hi! How did Riot get to be 2.5 already! Time is flying 🙂 And yes, the pandemic has been HARD for those of us with youngsters… so much they need to learn about the world that we cannot do much about right now. Having Pixey there to sing her song is fine LOL!
And it is fun to have a new and different training challenge!
On the video:
For a young dog that doesn’t have a lot of experience with backsides, he did GREAT on the first 2 reps!! You know how to handle/cue them, which really helped him – and you clearly have done your foundation work because he understood the wrap versus slice and jumped nicely on both! He will continue to get better and better with experience. My only suggestion on these first 2 reps is to change his sit position – rather than facing square to jump 1 (which caused him to zig-zag on landing of 1), set him up on a slice so he is facing directly to the backside and that will create a straight line from 1 to 2.3rd rep and 4th rep – wraps – he turned nicely here on both but there was not a lot of a speed like a big course would produce. So, thinking ahead to big speed lines – you can decelerate and turn sooner – when he lands from 1, let him see you shift into deceleration and then start the rotation just before he passes you, to set up and earlier turn cue. Great job with your connection and verbals!
5th rep – on the post turn wraps, you can show the same fast-slow-rotate transitions to get a tighter turn, with the same timing as the wraps: so you will show acceleration til he lands from 1, then decel (still moving forward) then rotate away. And on the way to the backside, he was bouncing rather than driving, which is young dog speak for “not enough connection’ :)) You can accelerate more and also have your arm a bit further back to help him see the connection more clearly.
6th rep – the wraps at :44 and :47 were a little late, so he was a little wide – they were partially late because the rotation was happening as he took off (ideally it is done by then) and partially because the fast-slow transition wasn’t clear- you might have to exaggerate the acceleration in the smaller spaces, just to be able to make the deceleration there more obvious, which will help you be able to turn sooner too.
He accelerated better up the line to the backside there, mainly because you took off too. Yay! You were blocking the wing a little so it took him a moment to find it, so drive up the line a little further over so he can see the wing.I think the main thing is adding more acceleration so you can either drive up the big lines, or show him the transition to deceleration so you can commit him and rotate nice and early.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
First video
Good boy on the first rep to find the backside wrap and maintain commitment as you left!
On the 2nd rep, you are helping too much with your foot stepping past the wing, and not helping enough with connection (looking too far forward) so he wasn’t sure where to be. On the 3rd rep connection was much better so he took the backside, YAY!!
On the backside slice pushes, move over to at least show him the whole wing, so you can get away across the line ahead of him. And use a ton of connection (and not as much foot :))
Good boy on the 4th rep with the forced FC/threadley position! Great connection and a clear hand cue!!2nd video – he is doing well, especially on that 2nd rep where you rotated – look at the lovely collection! He had good commitment on both! The forward send didn’t have quite as much collection, but that is normal – we usually use those for softer turns.
3rd video:
You don’t look bad at all! You just look like you are protecting your knee, and that is good! On the first rep where he didn’t commit, it was mainly because there was no transition – you were deceled the whole time and then turned really fast. On the 2nd rep, you created a transition of fast then slow to get the commitment so you could rotate. And it wasn’t that you ran hard, it was a little more movement but also the extra energy of your verbals really helped!! That is good to remember, we can use that. His turn looked really good too!4th video – this one went really well! A lot of our commitment cues are built off of motion – and since you can’t run right now, you were using high energy verbals and connection to create the stimulation that motion brings – so he both committed nicely and turned nicely. That is GREAT because it will help us add to his toolbox in the coming months! Very cool!!!
Great job here! But more importantly: how does your knee feel??
Tracy
Hi there!
Run 1:
Really nice first run! I have a couple of tweaks for you to tighten some lines
– when you say “go back” she barks 🙂 an then curls in a tiny bit (and does go back out to the backside) It might be because Go means straight and Back means back, so you can try just saying “back” and see if she has less of a question there.
The other thing to play with, as you are accelerating up the line 5-6-7: you don’t need to support with your dog-side arm up as much – I think it is slowing down your running and blocking her view of the connection. So when you have to haul *ss up a fast line, you can use your arms to run (pump them like an olympic sprinter :)) but still give the good connection and verbals that you had going.And one last little detail: as you pass the exit of 6 (backside serp) to get to 7, stay really close to the wing of 6, almost be able to touch it – that will set a really tight line. Run exactly on her line (she won’t need it yet haha) and then as she comes tight around the wing, you can move over to show her 7.
2nd run – you said “back” to 4 and she barked but didn’t curl in! You also had a nice low arm and clear connection.
Good job getting that BC 5-6! Wow! You really left her at 4 to be able to accomplish it!!
Your running line at the exit of 6 seemed to be very close to the wing – look how tight she was. Yeah!!!!3rd run – I don’t mind the off hand for backside pushes for some dogs – as long as you keep moving. You decelerated as she was coming over 3 and rotated, so she got so mad LOL!! She definitely expresses her opinions hahaha!
4th run: Oooh I really liked this line of exit 6-7! You were VERY close to the wing and set such a nice exit line!!!!
You did the Go Back 3-4 and got the bark and curl, so I definitely think she prefers just “back”. And you can play with using your arms to just run, rather than support on the lines that she is good at.Really nice job here. And because I am obsessive, I timed the 3 full runs. The last one was about 2/10ths faster than run 1 – and that was because of the better turn 6-7. And the 2nd run, which was nice, was about a half second slower – mainly because wraps are almost always slower than slices. Great job on these, and it looks like your first choice handling was also the fastest choice!!
Tracy
Hi there!
1st rep:
Lovely connection and comitment to the circle wrap! Great job moving through it.
2nd rep – just not quite enough connection on the outside arm cue to the backside slice, but you fixed it really nicely on 3rd rep by cranking up the level of connection. Strong timing on that one too!
4th and 5th rep – the check wrap looked great! Connection, timing, rotation – really strong and he turned nicely in both directions. Great job leaving to get way up the next line.
6th rep (1:04) – backside slice the other direction – because he has such a long stride, you can experiment with giving the fly cue sooner when you are lateral. On this rep, you waited til he landed but he was landing straight looking at the front side (because or your position) so you had a bit of a zig zag. You can try starting the cue when he is taking off for the previous jump so he already knows what to do when he lands. This is mainly for the sends to the backside where you are lateral – on rep 7 where you were doing a wrap, you didn’t need to start that early because your running line was so clear. Your timing there worked nicely!Rep 8: the check check wrap on jump 2 was strong! Be prepared to go right into the next decel/rotation for the wrap on 3, basically starting the transition as soon as he finishes coming around the wing of 2. At 1:30 you told him to jump straight (so he did :)) and then rotated while he was in the air, so his turn was a little wide on that one.
The backside at the end was nice!Rep 9:
This was the mirror image of the previous rep 🙂 The timing on the first wrap at 2 was still good – then you were much earlier with the wrap cues at 3 (1:45) and he was much tighter! You didn’t get to the blind cross to your left side quick enough, so at 1:47 he was already on your right side – you were trying to get him to your left but it was too late, he had already committed to coming to your left (because the wrap cue looked like a FC exit based on where your connection was). If you are late on those FC/BC spins, try to make a more direct eye contact and get your dog-side arm way back, because that will help him find the correct side.
You owe him a cookie for that LOL!Last rep – 2 more good check wraps! And you were much earlier to get to the BC so he found the correct line there too. Yay! When doing the BC to get him on your left, you can have your left hand further back, pointing at his nose more, so he will be able to see the connection even more clearly.
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi there! Good work on these (and great music!) – it gave us an insight into how he reads handling. He LOVES connection and also deceleration, they are very important to him. Here are specifics:
Sequence 1 session 2:
On your backside , there is a subtle tweak in when you can look forward:
on the first rep, you maintained eye contact with him until after he was past you and heading to the backside. Got it!
2nd rep – when he landed from jump 1 at :09, you looked forward to the backside. That breaks connection and turns your chest to the front, so he took the front.
3rd rep – you looked him right in the eye til he was past you to the backside: perfect!
Last rep (after you did a few front side wraps) – also great connection. Nailed it!
So remember to make and maintain connection until he is for sure heading to the backside.4th rep and 5th rep – front side wrap (check) – you can do a front cross here to be able to move away sooner (or a FC/BC spin) – that will get you up the next line faster than a post turn wrap. You could also do a send-and-go where you send him to the wrap and take off, rather than rotate while near the wing. Great connection getting into it!
And on all of these – start to run away, as if there is another obstacle out there – challenge his commitment by moving away to rewrd and see what he does 🙂
Seq 3: I love your dance moves here 🙂
First rep and at :55: on your back cue, you turned to look forward before he passed you, so he ended up on the front.
Second, Third, 4th reps: you maintained perfect connection from 1-2 and got it on all 3. Yay! Now, with his speed, you can get out of there sooner: as soon as he is passing you on the way to 2, you can be rotating and leaving – you did this on the 4th rep the soonest at :46, and he did well! It can be even sooner, ideally you are already fully turned and running the other way before he takes off.
On the last jump and bonus tunnels 🙂 On the reps where he did *not* take the tunnel (:33. :40), you had some deceleration so he understood there was a turn. On the reps where he took the tunnel, you drove in so he read it as extension and committed to the tunnel. You did a FC on the last rep and the side change helped, but you can also work the deceleration in so he sees it before he passes you and then you can rotate away up the next line – that should take the tunnel out of the equation nicely.Novice sequence: this one is trickier than it looks, right? On the 1st rep, you actually lead out too far – so you were stationary and then when he landed from 2 you accelerated, so he stayed on the line. Reps 2 and 4 were very similar (in a good way :)) – you were moving sooner so when he landed from 2, you slowed down and gave him a turn cue (shoulder turn and a little opposite arm, both very helpful) so he turned 🙂 Yay! I think rep 2 was a little earlier than rep 4, so the turn was smoother.
On rep 3 – you disconnected a bit on the way from 2-3, your arm got high and you looked forward – so he almost came off the line – you saw it happening and pushed him back out, but that showed motion to the off course jump.
Rep 2 was my favorite here: connected, nice timing on the turn cue! And great connection to the last jump. Yay!!Hi! So nice to see you back here 🙂 with both dogs this time!
>> It looks like skill set 4 and 5 are identical.
Oopsie! I just got over-eager 🙂 Sorry! It is just a duplicate.
>> Is it two rounds for skills and two rounds for sequences and two rounds for courses?
Yes, basically 2 rounds for everything you would like to tackle.
>>Do we have to submit all video for each skill or sequence or course at the same time? Or can we space out the skills etc. over a couple days, by doing a few each day?>>
You can (and should) totally space out all the training so as not to overwork the dogs. You are welcome to submit all the video at the same time, but I think it is better to submit it in pieces as you work through it.
T
Skill 6: This had really nice decel to the first wrap! And to the 2nd wrap! Now on both of them, you can turn and go before he takes off, even before he has fully passed you. Same with the around – you can leave before he takes off. He is being a really good boy with his commitment!!
Skill 7 – this one is my favorite so far 🙂 On jump 2 at :09 , you sent and left much betterm so he landed and hustled up the line! At :12 on the next wrap, you decelerated early and started rotating away before he took off – so he was tight and faster up the next line (no slowing down to get info!)
And you sent and left on the last backside – terrific! He was fastest on this so far!Skill 8 run 1 – ok this goes on my list of favorites now too haha! You were pushing harder on this one, leaving earlier – so he was confident of the lines and his speed came up. I am sensing a theme to help build the speed!
Run 2 was also good – you were getting into the groove of sending and leaving, so he was able to jump tight and then power up the next line.So, overall:
Your connection is really lovely on every.single.rep. That is quite an accomplishment to do all of these and not disconnect at all. YAY!!!!As I get to know Ivan, I see a big difference in his response when you push and trust, versus when you are a bit too careful. When you push to leave early and trust his commitment, he drives the lines so much better!
So… on the tight turns, add your deceleration in sooner: when he has landed from the previous jump, you can start decelerating while you move forward – and then trust his commitment and start to rotate away before he takes offand idealy before he passes you 🙂 Stay connected like you were. This will help us build speed and will also allow us to find out if he has any weaknesses or questions on his commitment skills (no problem if he does, we can train those).Great job!! Let me know if this makes sense 🙂
Tracy
Hi again!
Skill 3 1st rep:
You can start your turn sooner with decel at :09 and :13 on the wraps – when you are late on your turn, he slows down and doesn’t drive up the next line as fast – this is definitely a spot that we can easily tweak to get more speed 🙂 Trust his commitment more so you start turning before he takes off and the tighter turns will also lead to more speed!2nd rep – you decelerated on the way to the 2nd jump for the wrap (note how your strides go from big steps to little steps) and you were turned a little sooner: the deceleration helped him a lot! He turned tighter and powered out of the turn better (more speed!)
The turn on jump 3 didn’t have as much decel so he jumped longer there tooSkill 4: You had a little deceleration going on this one but didn’t turn until he lifted off at :08 and at :10, so he landed wide – when that happens, he doesn’t power back up the line, perhaps being a bit careful and waiting for more info. So we will definitely make it a priority to have you turn sooner (more on that below, I will summarize after watching the next set of clips :))
Hi Eileen and Ivan! Nice work on these, he is a really cool dog!!!!! Bearing in mind that you are looking for more speed, I looked at these from the perspective of adding speed 🙂 Your connection is super on all of these reps and he is driving off the line really nicely!!
Skill 1 red 1st & 2nd
Very nice send to the around, great connection! You can trust him more – as soon as he is heading to the backside wing, move off to the new direction. You helped more than he needed by putting your right arm between the uprights, so he slowed down and had to wait for you to move away 🙂 Trust him, stay connected like you were, and run forward (no need to help with the right arm there). The other thing to add is get him to chase you more for the reward – he is food motivated (so am I :)) so you can keep running til you get the cookie out then have him do some chasing of the cookie 🙂Skill 1 black 1:
His around is very nice! You can give him his around cue a little sooner, and also be a little further across the jump, letting him see the full wing. But, most importantly: cue it and leave and run 🙂 Your connection looks *terrific* so maintain that connection but you don’t need to help with the opposite serp arm or anything – send and leave so he chases you for the reward 🙂On your second rep you left sooner and he was faster. Good boy! If you leave your left arm back as you leave and maintain connection (like you did, it was great) then you won’t need to use your right arm as a serp arm – the right arm isn’t incorrect, per se, but it slows you down and he doesn’t appear to need it. So if you go faster, he will chase you more and go faster too 🙂
Skill 2 red & black: he is driving off the line nicely on both of these! You can add in a transition to get a tighter turn while maintaining his speed: as soon as you release him, accelerate in a big way for a few steps. Then right after he lands, decelerate (still moving forward, just slowing down) and then cue the turn. That deceleration will allow him to collect and drive out of the turn, plus it will allow you to turn even sooner. On these 2 reps, you drove forward for a little too long, so he jumped big and then had to turn on landing (which slowed him down).
I will scroll down and put the ideas for the other sequences just below them 🙂
