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Good morning!
Wow, that is great news that he is comfortable working around other dogs!! That is one thing we will all be playing ‘catch up’ with when the world gets more normal 🙂 Have you been to Jenn’s new arena yet? It looks gorgeous.
Video 1: The serps look good! I couldn’t see your eyes but he said the connection was fine LOL! You can be a little closer to the jump to get him to turn before he arrives at the jump (plus it helps him learn to love driving into the pressure of our position.
He did a great job coming in on the threadles as well! He doesn’t yet fully realize the ‘go back out over the jump’ element so as you train the going back out to the cookie box, you can use your manners minder – click it when he hits the hand target and that will send him back out over the jump without you having to move towards the jump at all (then the chain will be really easy for him) You can actually use the MM for the serps too! It will help us as we turn it into a chain and add motion 🙂
The toy/food ‘get it’ skills are good to work through! He was figuring out the ‘get it’ element on the toy (definitely useful) and his “please” drops looked really good! I bet you can fade the leave it out because so that the ‘don’t grab things’ becomes understood in general and doesn’t need to be cued. The food stuff was harder for him, he was definitely working out the parameters of the cookie rewards! Yes, I could smell the brain cells burning! But I bet after a good sleep, he will have it cemented and be able to get it with no problem. And that will make training easier too!
Great job here! Fingers crossed for good weather 🙂
Tracy
Hi! I think it was just a new weird skill so she was not sure she was supposed to go around the 2nd time.
At 1:06, when you had the toy involved – it went nicely! You had a very clear line up and send and then you slowly moved the toy around to get the 2nd turn. Yay! So when you use the hand without the toy – keep your hand really low, right in front of her nose, and move it really slowly – luring her nose around the wing and then having her follow your hand to help her turn that 2nd time. And feel free to use a treat in the hand to help her follow it to get it started. Your hand was a little too high and a little too fast – so she didn’t follow it around. But as soon as she realizes you are asking for her to do it a 2nd time, she won’t need your hand to be that low or slow 🙂Let me know if that makes sense! Have fun!
Tracy
Hi!
She did well with ignoring her friend Skye here too 🙂
On the threadles, she was coming in nicely on the first couple of reps but then when you were leaning to toss the toy, the motion was pushing her back around then she checked out a bit because there were no rewards coming. Her value for your hand targeting looked strong and then on the 2nd half of the video, your reward placement got better so she was able to get the come in – go out pattern. Nice!
I liked it when you had the toy already on the ground…. but she did not like it LOL! “Dead’ toys are not super exciting for her. So, going with the idea of the reward already being on the ground but also needing her to like the reward… you can use a big empty food bowl and then either leave a treat in it already (if she can ignore it) or the bowl becomes a target and you toss the treat into it after she touches your hand. That will also help her keep the bar up. Let me know if that makes sense! Nice start here, I think the hardest part was figuring out the reward mechanics.Tracy
Good morning!
Watching both of these videos, I have some ideas for you:
>>I’m wondering if I take a different approach and start these at a lower height and then work our way up??>>
I think of teeter training as having many separate ‘tracks’ that are worked separately and then eventually come together. It takes as long as needed to get complete confidence and the key is breaking things down and getting a super high rate of success while minimizing pressure (which reduces rate of success).
So think of the separate tracks as, in no particular order because they are all trained concurrently:
Height (home)
Height (elsewhere)
Movement (home)
Movement (elsewhere)
Noise (home)
Noise (elsewhere)
“Whip”/Bounce back (home)
“Whip”/Bounce back (elsewhere)
and probably a couple of other details that I am forgetting right now.Because the teeter is relatively complex, and because teeters are all soooooo different – it takes a while. And if the dog has a question about any of it: that element takes longer. Most dogs are sensitive about noise or movement. Some dogs are sensitive about height. Some are sensitive about nothing and have to learn to not be insane. LOL!
So looking at it in terms of the planning sessions:
My goal is to track the success rate for home and elsewhere separately – and I won’t make anything harder until I have had multiple sessions over several days of 90% success of higher in that environment. This is especially important if the dog has any concerns about one of the elements.So on the LU video, you were lumping the home and elsewhere tracks together in that session:
the first part where he was doing a bit of bang game was great – it was a bit easier than the home track, super high rate of success (I am a nerd and I counted, it was up close to 100% because you were giving multiple treats).
Then at about :49 you made the game a lot harder and closer to the home track- and the rate of success (which compares the number of behaviors offered to the number of behaviors delivered) dropped to 30% ish, which included the rewards that came after you put the thing back in to reduce the tip and more rewards came after that. (yes, still a nerd and counted LOL!)He was not ready for the home track to be introduced into the LU environment (which was busy and noisy and had lots of dog panting/whining, people talking loudly, etc) and that rate of success dropped. No worries – the next several sessions there should match the first :48 seconds of the video, where he works on the ‘elsewhere’ version of the game.
The home video had good bang games to start! Really nice. And I agree, the mountain climbers were not as good as they had been – but that might be a bit of fallout from the lower rate of success sessions and the pressure that comes with those. Somehow in dog training, the high rate of success takes forever to transfer but the low rat of success transfers instantly, right? I think it has to do with stress chemicals, so a day off usually helps.
So going back to your question:
>>>>I’m wondering if I take a different approach and start these at a lower height and then work our way up??>>
Sometimes we are able to fly through things and not have to count rate of success or anything or break it down, and it is all good! And all of our dogs gift us with at least one thing we need to be a real stickler about. So for his teeter – I would definitely focus on the different tracks and obsess on super high rate of success for ALL of them, separately. One thing that can be added in for sure is the ‘plankrobatics’ approach where he is going back and forth between 2 tables or a teeter that is super low.
This can be started nice and low, very minimal movement of the plank, to build a sh*t-ton of value and then work up to higher planks and more movement, without lowering the rate of success – and each session in a different environment should be started several steps easier than whatever level he is working on at home. And the “elsewhere” track can be a wobble board in different environments
An example of working different tracks: Hot Sauce loved her wobble board at home after many zillions of cookies but hated it everywhere else, so we did wobble board tours to different places to build up the love and rate of success. I did that before any teeter work in new places and before any flyball box turn work in new places, even though both were underway at home). I kept the wobble board sessions to where they were at home, originally, and progressed at the same rate: multiple high rate of success sessions. So she was doing a full teeter and flyball box turns at home while still playing on a wobble board at training schools.
The other track to add is a counterconditioning track – he gets tugs or treats when any other dog moves the teeter or the teeter makes noise. Start 20 or 30 feet away, and he doesn’t need to earn it… it is just pairing the teeter noise & motion with lovely things (and he does not need to be the one making it move or slam :))
And protect that rate of success like gold, so he is so pumped up about it that he feels no pressure and literally drools at the sight of the teeter 🙂
Now, because the teeter is challenging, I figure this means the running dog walk will come super easy for him!
Let me know if that makes sense!
T
Hi!
Oh hey, I know those special guests! How fun! What a great training opportunity for Ria AND for Skye! Fun!Nice job on the backside session here. She did well overall in going to the correct side of the jump, nice job with your connection and your line of motion to help commit her. You can use a stay to be able to move yourself further over and then move along the parallel path to cue the backside from further over, more towards the center of the bar. Starting with her working nicely here but the stay will be really helpful to give you a moment to move over to set your line, before releasing her and cuing the backside.
She also did well with the distractions of another dog working and being in a new place – that is REALLY hard and she was a good girl!!!
>>Why is she sometimes wrapping the *entire* jump and wings?>>
2 reasons, I think:
from the training side of things, she is still learning to come in and take that jump and not flank it. You were doing a good job of dropping the reward early on most reps, so on the next session you can delay it and let her make a decision about coming in to take the jump. But since it is hard – move very slowly through it, so that she can see the bar and not get too excited about motion.
The other reason is that she was stimulated by Skye working in the background… so it was hard to process a new skill AND ignore him 🙂 She was 95% successful LOL!!!! The more practice she gets with other dogs as distractions, the easier it will be for her to ignore them. So even though she was not perfect yet on the backsides – she got valuable time learning to work when other dogs are doing agility, and that is so much more important.
Great job!!!
TracyHi! “in in” is a great threadle verbal and I am a BIG FAN of having verbals the same for all dogs in the household LOL!!!!
His a-frame and teeter are coming together really quickly!! Th RDW is a bigger project but I am confident he will do well too 🙂
T
Hi! I am glad to hear he is being more focused! I think it is a combination of things coming together. Yay!!!
The forced fronts are looking good – I don’t think your arm was wrong on the video – but you can make it clearer by having your dog-side leg forward (under the arm) and not back. On reps 1, 2, nd 4, the arm closer to the jump was cuing the FFC but the leg closer to the jump was back: so he wasn’t sure if he should take the jump (because he would see the leg back through the uprights) or come to the backside. On rep 3, it looks like the right arm and right leg were both forward and that was the clearest cue for him. It is a small detail but many dogs read it the same way – he sorted it out but I think it will be easier for you both if the arm and leg match 🙂
And great job rewarding the start line stay (it looked lovely here!) and balancing with the front side of the jump. Super!!!!
Nice work!!!
TracyGood morning!
>>Thank you for helping me out here as I am struggling with which arm to use for tandem turns – and there’s a story to this….>>
Ha! I have some similar stories LOL!!!!!!
>>in 2014 I went to One Mind camp, where I was in the beginner group taught by a certain brilliant Canadian coach. >>>
Kayl? I find her to be a brilliant handler instructor, I have really enjoyed her clinics.
>>Janita had shown us how to do the TT using the dog-side arm, but my coach said it was OK to use the opp hand. I tried using the dog-side arm at first, but not very successful, so then switched to opp arm – this was working a little better, >>
So that is the thing about OMD that was vague in some ways: I was taught by many of them that the opposite arm was for a tandem turn (among other things) and the dog side arm was for a ‘flick’ (threadle wrap).
>>>but then Janita happened to walk by and when she saw this she jumped in to show me how to do it properly with the dog-side arm – well, she had me drill this for about 15 minutes until I got it right – so now it it literally drilled into me to use the d-s arm, which is why I often alternate – b/c I’m trying to use opp arm, but keep resorting to d-s arm – >>
Ha! I feel that pain, I might have some really distinct memories that are similar LOL! Eek!!!!
>>though I now think that it would work much better for me to use the opp hand for TTs all the time. So I guess what I need to do is some “drills” where I use the opp arm all the time – only thing is, I think I need a robot dog to try this on, or I might drive poor Yowza insane…..>>
I think as long as Yowza continues to get cookies and toys, she is happy 🙂 One the tandem turns: you can use both arms! There will be verbals attached pretty soon too, and that will help. I think the most important thing is to find what is comfortable and works specifically for you and Yowza. For example, on threadles: I sometimes use the dog side arm, sometimes the opposite arm. It totally depends on the situation and my position. The verbal is always attached – and my older dogs say it is fine. My youngsters have no idea about any of it, so I have to be extra perfect.
So keep playing with it, and try using both arms for now: actively thinking about engaging your opposite arm along with the dog side arm which is very natural. You can walk around the house doing tandem turns with no dogs involved lol! The tandem turn is really the only cue that I use both hands for, and that also makes it clear for the dogs.
Let me know what you think!
TracyStay warm! I think that she is going to be really independent and fast but also accurate: watching her learn, she seems to check in at first but then when she really understands: independent and fast and accurate in a great way. Yay!
Because this whole generation of pups is MUCH better with transitions for turns and not as good with collection on sends, I take is as feedback from them that I have just not emphasized send collection enough. We did it waaaaaay back in MaxPup over the summer on the prop and we have done some on the wing… but I need to bring it back on jumps to help the puppers understand. We want them to read transitions AND sends as turn cues, we need both of the tools 🙂 Stay tuned! I am going to ‘ask’ my youngsters about it tomorrow when it stops raining here 🙂
T
Good morning!
He is totally figuring out the jumping! I se the side-to-side action developing 🙂 On your next session, yes to staying in motion LOL! And I think you can job or run. And if he is happy with that… make the angles harder, I think he is ready for that too. If he starts to add strides when the angles get harder, you can to a shorter bar for a bit – if you don’t have a shorter bar, use weave poles (I use weave poles as jump bars all the time at home for the littles, when working on jump striding 🙂Great job here!!! Keep me posted 🙂
TracyGood morning! Lots of nice work here, he is really putting together grown up pieces!!
He seemed very happy with the teeter tip! Lots of motion and noise and he was dandy with it. He was not quite as fast to the end when you removed the lower table but I think he will get faster with more experience on that,
I like that you added running past so he would not rely on you. The quick releases got the better of him for a few reps, so make sure you go back and reward a lot in position after every couple of quick releases. And yes, the down is a little quicker without the target so I think if you reward in position, then the you won’t need to go back to the target. I think he was running off because of the quick releases shifting the balance of reinforcement out of the stay at the end.Box work:
on the flat, add a wing before and after it to begin the chain (the MM can be tucked in behind the exit wing) – sending to a wing (or hanging back near it) will allow you to alter your starting position and also change the exits based on where you place the 2nd wing. He was ‘cheating’ a little on the box on the flat when you angled the MM to a new spot, so I think that you can help him see the line with the wing and more gradual angles. It creates an independent behavior chain with the box in the middle which transfers nicely to the frame.Then on the a-frame – he was definitely transferring the concept nicely! He does need something out ahead for him to focus on as he comes over the apex – he was looking at you a bit. So having the wing out ahead as part of the chain will basically allow him to do “through the box to the wing to the MM” without needing to know where you are LOL! And that helps give him the visual of turns and such.
I like how he was setting up his striding over the top, so I think this will be easy for him.The turn aways are looking good!
The lap turn is going well, the arm was clearer and it looks like he was able to lock onto it perfectly. As line distractions increase, you can extend the arm even more and shake it to help get his attention as needed (and we will add threadle verbals at some point too :))
On the tandem turns – he was reading those nicely too, and he had great commitment to the jump when you flipped him back to it! Yay! And good job rewarding it lots to keep building the commitment.His question on the tandems started after the GO balance moment (which was really nice :)) It looks like the lower body line was a little too similar to the go line, so one thing on tandem turns is you can turn your line of motion to be a bit more parallel to the line you want him to take – and in this case, you would be facing the weaves. That will make the line of motion look even more different and help him out.
So back to threadle verbals:
>> With the tandem turn – will they wrap the wing or to slice to the far wing?>>
Technically, with a tandem turn, you would complete a rear cross on the flat, he would take the jump and turn back to the tunnel (in this situation, it might differ and involve the front side of the jump in other situations – the tandem is basically a rear cross on the flat).
Other applications don’t have the rear cross and your feet would keep moving forward, so it is just the threadle element – you could move forward on the line you did and do a threadle-slice, or you could do a threadle-wrap like you did at :25.
The slice and the wrap after the threadles need different verbal cues and that can alo help him sort out the Go versus the arm cue. Have you picked a cue for both? I have ‘close’ as my threadle slice cue and I cannot remember what I wanted as my threadle-wrap cue because I never use it and haven’t trained it in quite a while hahahaha So pick some words for now, and we will be adding threadles soon!Great job here, let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I think this is going well!
Great job mixing up short stays and longer stays, and all the ways to reward her. Yay! She is getting the idea for sure. I think you can add in tugging in between cookie rewards – she likes the cookies but the tugging seems to be more fun, and it will keep her even more engaged. She liked the tug reward at the end the best!
One thing to add is teaching her to line up at your side, or between your feet. That way you don’t have to face her and back away. Or, you can face her but then turn so you can walk forward (and reward her lots of letting you turn away).I think the obedience class will be fun to add (remember to bring your toys, some obedience classes focus on food rewards but Miss Ruby loves loves loves her toys too!) Keep me posted on how it goes 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning! She did a great job with the leg bumps! Such a fun session to watch 🙂 It cracked me up when she used your legs as a double jump but she only did it once and was beautiful on all of the rest. Yay! I really liked how she was bending when you started her further behind you hip. Yes, she thought it was super weird to be held back there 🙂 but she did fine once you let her go. You can also get her going from those angles by rewarding her with a treat further away behind your hip, then calling her back into the leg bumps – that will also add more speed to the bending 🙂
Normally the next steps would involve getting another person to add their legs, so it would be 4 bumps instead of 2! But covid makes that really difficult so for now, stick to adding more distance with cookie tosses which will add more speed.About the tunnels:
>>have a smaller cloth tunnel I could use in the basement. But those are hard to secure down. Real floppy. She goes though tunnels at Bonnies and she is pretty speedy. I want to keep it that way. >>
Yeah, I agree, we want to keep her fast and happy in the tunnels. So if the home tunnel might roll around or flop, don’t use it. Working the games at Bonnie’s, even if it is only sometimes, is still good! There is no rush on more tunnels 🙂
Great job!
TracyGood morning!
Sounds like it is time to block off the a-frame LOL! I feel that pain LOL!!!
He did really well with the goat tricks, they are looking great!
He was happy to climb on the purple things! It took a heartbeat to get back on the toy but he did. Yay! I think if you have a couple of yoga mats or cheapie rugs to put down, he will have more grip on the floor and then the tugging and the climbing will be easier.
The yoga block was harder but he can figure it out, in terms of all 4 feet on it. A bit if value building for interacting with front feet, then you can either wait til he offers 3 feet or all 4 – or, if you have a second one, put them side by side to make a bigger playing field.
He had a little trouble with the release/reset and didn’t see the cookie 🙂 The shaping games are a good opportunity to clarify releases for him – you can use a release word and then a game of tug. or a marker for a cookie toss so he knows where to look and what to do when he gets off. That will help stay training too!
The puppy obstacles were adorable! Soooooo cute, the whole crew!!!!!!Great job! Let me know what you think!
Tracy
