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Good morning!
OF COURSE Cole decides to strip down the instant the camera is turned on LOL!! Kids crack me up! When he is all grown up, this will be a good video to play for him LOL!!!!The backing up is going well – he is actively thinking about his back feet, judging by the independent picking them up and putting them down. NICE! Bearing in mind that form is more important than distance, you can stay really close for a long time – as close as needed til he says “this is the easiest thing ever” and immediately backs up with good form. And, that includes adding more tip – stay close til he can do it with about an inch of tip to the end of the board. So keep nice and close, the only suggestion to is to be very still til you move the reward – you were leaning in towards him a little. I think the leaning was mainly to be able to see what he was doing, so now see if he can offer it with you completely stationary.
The funny thing with the bang game: Just as I was writing “he needs the target” in my notes, you reached over and put the target in. Ha! Perfect! If the target is not visible, don’t wait for him to offer 2o2o – you can just put the cookie in position to help him move into it. When you are waiting for the 2o2o, have the target there as an aid. (More on this coming on Monday). I leave the target there for a while to help, and I think that will make the difference for him. The circling is something to note but not really worry about – it is hard to know if it is excitement/arousal, frustration, value of the end of the board, all of the above, none of the above LOL!! So… I just note it and keep tracking the rate of success 🙂 The target should make it even easier. I think there is also a strip of tape at the end of the teeter board, so you will probably want to remove that visual so he doesn’t question which one he should hit.
Great job!!! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! The forum can be a pain with images (I need to ask the tech people why that happens) so if you have a photo, you can can email it to me (agilitydals@yahoo.com). Coffee is loading now, so I am more coherent haha!
Hi! The forum can be a pain with images (I need to ask the tech people why that happens) so if you have a photo, you can can email it to me (agilitydals@yahoo.com). Coffee is loading now, so I am more coherent haha!
Hi! Really nice session here! I figured better to start on 4 poles and then maybe the biggest regret would be that it was too easy haha!
And while I am sure the barking dogs on the other side of the wall were annoying in the moment… they were providing a valuable distraction because our youngsters have really not had a lot of exposure to that this year! He was such a good boy to be able to ignore them 🙂You were really nailing the timing of the left-shoulder-pole-3 click on these. There were a couple of reps where he entered by didn’t turn, left shoulder never got to pole 3… no reward. Those no-reward reps were just as informative as the reward reps! I think he was quiet lovely on the left side reps! Yes, he sometimes tried to enter a little further down, but that is normal 🙂 And he did well on the right side reps too on a smaller part of the clock (12, 1, 1:30 lol).
3 ideas for you:
Left side – keep working up to the harder angles on the sending.
Both sides – add motion to the easier angles (left side will probably progress more quickly than the right side, and that is fine)
Right side – I think a basement training session on 2 poles with a clicker (no MM) will help him sort out going all the way around the first pole. His session here on the harder angles is *exactly* what my Elektra was doing on both the channels and the 2x2s, so I brought a set into a tiny area on a snowy day and just did a session or two of shaping that entry from my right (clicked right shoulder at pole 2 for the entry then tossed a cookie). I didn’t ask for speed and the cookie toss kept her from slipping. She seems to think it was super helpful because she is much more balanced making that entry now (finding the “other side” of pole 1). And if your weather is about to go to poo again for a while, this is a great time to do it!Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! Welcome to weaves!!!
The simple angle at the beginning (poles at 3 and 9) looked good! She probably was asking for an interim cue to be sure when to start offering. But she found all of her entries really well with the addition of the MM as the reward target, especially when you were at really hard angles.
Starting at about 2:20 is when I think she was having confusion based on what you were mentioning from previous experiences with the 2x2s: she was basically asking, which is the line of the weaves?
>> I have always imagined that the 2 poles are at one end of a set of 6 or 12 poles, and so in the lower quadrant here, she would always be expected to go around the right hand pole and then go through the poles at an oblique angle, at least within the same session. >>
I visualize it as an invisible line on the ground with the MM placed pole 12 would be, and the 2x2s rotate around to eventually be straight on that line. And invisible pole 1 is at 12 on the clock, and the MM/pole 12 is at 6 on the close. So you can visualize it as the 2 poles being poles 1 and 2, and the MM being pole 12. Then gently open up the angle of the 2 poles so the #1 pole is more at 1 or 2 o’clock, and pole 2 is more at 7 or 8 o’clock – but the MM is still at 6.
Hopefully that makes sense – the invisible 12 pole line on the clock, running from 12 to 6 🙂 I have not had all my coffee yet this morning LOL!!! And thinking of it like that should remove her question about what exactly the line is and where the correct entry is.
Let me know if that makes sense! I think her next session should have the angled poles (not 3 and 9) so that you can clarify immediately and get high success. And add in the interim cue so she knows when she is allowed to start heading to the poles. And, because she is doing so well… you can add in motion too!Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning! This is going well! A couple of ideas for you for the next session:
– you can add more motion, go faster – I think he is ready for that challenge and it will be fun!
– to build even more independence on the harder angles like when you are at 3 and 9: does he like his collar being held or gentle restraint? To help him focus on the poles without the step, you can gently hold him, give a little ready ready ready then give your weave noise… Then let go. And when you let go, you just walk forward to the reward target, no step. Start really close to the poles and see what he does! If he gets it right with high rates of success – yay! If he is not sure… you can give a tiny step and we will keep fading it.
– he gets a little “meh” on the dead toy after a couple of reps, so until your Manners Minder comes back to life – I think we can go to throwing the reward. Try to throw it when you see him about to enter the poles and ideally before he looks back at you. Throw it pretty long, which also encourages him to look straight and not back at all. I want to go to throwing because I think it will be even more fun for him and also it will add challenge to that collection entry because he will want to go faster 🙂I also think the poles can be a bit more angled, he is doing great!! So maybe one more session in this position adding in the harder angles, then angle them more in the next session.
Great job! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi!
I am trying to visualize this and I think I have enough coffee on board: so you are at a really hard position down by the reward target, sending him away on your right: he is doing awesome (you are between him and the poles). But when you put him between you and the poles (threadle side entry) and he has to leave you and turn away – not so easy.
If I have that correct – no worries! Totally normal. It sounds like it is a combination of him being more comfy working on your right side, and also the sending entry is easier at the 5 o’clock position than the threadle entry is there anyway.You can progress the challenges separately, meaning the right side sends from that position can be harder. And the left side threadle sends where he has to turn away can be done at the easier angles and then gradually you can work up to the harder angles. I think it is pretty normal for the sends to be better than the threadley side for a while, and that is fine! We can keep working towards finished poles on the sends and keep them open for longer on the harder threadle reps.
If I am not making sense 🙂 send a video so I can make sure I am visualizing it correctly 🙂
TracyHello and welcome to weaves!!
The good news is that he did seem to remember what actual weaving was, so on the harder angles he was trying to weave for real rather than do the very simple 3 and 9 o’clock poles. So, since we don’t want to confuse him or frustrate him, I agree with your assessment that the next session should leap forward to angled poles. I think that going right into 12 and 6 angle is probably too big a leap for the first couple of reps, at least – I suggest starting at a little more of an angled entry (1:30 and 7:30 LOL!) for 3 reasons –
1 – to give him a high success refresher since it has been a while
2 – to be able to add your motion. You can start off walking then go to jogging and running. He likes to run run run when you run, so adding motion early on but with easier angles will be perfect for him
3 – to work in those threadle anglesHowever – if you get into it with motion and it is still 100% super fabulous… then yes, tighten the angles. There is no need to waste reps on stuff that is too easy.
The other thing to add on easier angles is bring the poles to new locations (and also next to the tunnel). That is an easy way to generalize!Great job here! This is going to be FUN!!
TracyHi!
Super session here, she did really well! The reminder session and then the teeter session both looked good – she seemed to be engrossed in which foot goes where and was not at all concerned with the boards. Yay! Keep mixing up which side of you she enters the game from – that was changing which back foot she was ‘looking’ for the board with on a lot of the reps. So, just mix up which side you release her to so she practices starting with a different back foot each time to keep it balanced. During the teeter session, when you got to be more than an arm’s length from the board, the backing up was much harder (added distance made it harder for her to ‘find’ the board with her back feet). But that is ok – you can keep working or more distance, but I think you can also get closer and add a little bit of tip to this – try it first with the wobble board then with the teeter. Her response will guide you as to how much tip to add and how quickly. She was sooooo focused on her backing up here that I think she will be fine and you can add in tip, bit y bit!
Great job!
TracyHi Helen!
One word came to mind when I was watching him drive up the board: WOW!!! He was fast fast fast and then did a nice weight shift at the very end. Good boy! I had to chuckle at :35 – did you see him notice how well he could see everything from up there? It was like he discovered a whole new world view, based on his facial expression LOL!!
Since this went so well, and the teeter was in a new location… add a little more tip on the next session. Yay!
And the 4on at the end was really good too! Keep working that to make it super valuable for when we start putting all of the elements together 🙂Great job here!
TracyHi! He is doing really well here, good boy!!!! This was a really nice introductory session on the channels.
>> And yes – I’m missing a pole! Should have a new set in a week.>>
I didn’t notice til almost the end of the video – I was too busy watching him LOL!!!
Good job getting him figuring out the channels, and getting the MM moved down the length of the channel to the end. You took your time with it and he was finding the channels really nicely! Yay!
He was really good about finding the entry on your left side on a variety of angles. On your right, he was great on the 12, 1, and 2 o’clock entry, but the 3 o’clock angle was definitely harder for him – that is where we saw him miss a bunch. On the next session, you can start him closer to the poles at 2 oclock, get some success, then stay really close to the poles and inch over to the 3 o’clock angle. It is pretty normal that there is at least one difficult angle of entry and this is the same one that my dogs have trouble with too LOL!! So, starting closer gives him less distance to slip into the channels further down the line.
There was not a lot of running in the session so a slightly longer session was fine. He did get a little brain-tired at about 3:19 where he went for a sniff, so you can give him breaks and you can also add in tugging between reps to keep him pumped up 🙂One other little detail – at 5:33, he weaved back to you (really nicely too!) so you can reward that for now and step out to the side more to to call him back to you without weaving, after he gets rewards at the MM.
Great job here! Fingers crossed for good weather!!!
TracyHi!
Both the channels and the 2x2s are going well!
This was a really nice intro session on the channels! He offered the wrapping on some of them probably because it was the easiest path to the MM and he had not yet experienced these. Plus, his frame of reference before weaving was mainly “wrap the things” so it was a smart offer. I give him bonus points for offering it LOL!
1:28 – 1:31 was a big moment in sports history – he leaned to wrap, fixed his lean to the center of the channel, you gave the cue at that instant… BOOM! Then it was clear sailing for the rest of the session. Really cool to see – I am not sure if you noticed it in the moment (probably, based on the timing of your cue) but it was really clear on the video!2x2s – These are going nicely too! Adding motion on the sends went great, no problems for the most part, you can probably add more motion too! The 3 o’clock angle is typically difficult for all of the dogs (and/or the 9 o’clock position too) but they sort it out with practice. You were good about keeping the success rate high and he did have a lot of successes from that angle.
When you start him on the threadle side, stand still, send, don’t move til after he is in the entry for now – you were doing the handling it a little so you can add challenge by having him just go find it on his own, then you click for right shoulder at pole 2.
The added angle of the poles – no problem at all! Yay! You can totally start there on the next session.>> We’ll be at TCOTC tonight so I’m going to try their channel weaves – definitely different and are in set of 4, so it will be 8 poles. >>
Do you mean it is 4 and 4, and you can separate out into 2 groups of 4? If so… just do 4 poles for now. If not – onwards to 8 LOL! You might need to do another intro session because it is so new to him.
>I don’t think I can do many more sessions in my basement – the surface is already looking too slippery for him>
Yeah, I feel that! I did a couple of sessions in the house on a small area rug, working without speed or motion on just getting Elektra to find the right side entries at 2 and 3 and 4 oclock when the 2 poles were straight – she didn’t need much speed, just needed to find them. So, that is something to consider a bit further down if he needs a bit of spot-checking on certain angles of entry.
Great job!!! Let me know how it goes at the club!
TracyHi! My teeter doesn’t have rubber stoppers (it is a Max200 teeter) so I just put the teach it at the end of the board.
How stable is the setup if the rubber stoppers hit the metal bar? And I am guessing there is not enough room in front of the rubber stoppers.
So, you might need a little arts and crafts, a good ol’ spoon and duct tape session?
I will also ask the people who make it what they do with teeters that have the rubber stoppers.
Let me know which teeter it is and I’ll let you know what they say.
TracyGood morning! This was a good session!
He did lose his speed a little towards the end – it might have been hot or the bloody tongue or he might have been careful after he had the one error where he went to the toy without the weaves. Overall though – very nice session!
My TnT is also being weird so I feel your pain with that. I still use it as a target even if it is not a treat dispense – for Contraband, it stays out there as a focal point and I throw a frisbee for the rewards because he prefers the frizzer anyway 🙂 So Fever might like that too – TnT as the focal point but toy as reward.
The session was really strong! The toy as the target on the ground was easy on the straight entries but it provided EXCELLENT distraction work on the harder angles! And that is exactly what he needs: choose to collect to make the entry even when there is an ‘easier’ option that he might find rewarding. He was terrific! He did well on the sends and when you added motion.
So, since it went so nicely and since he is not starting from scratch: go to the angles of the weave poles. Do a quick session with the poles at 2 and 8. if that is super easy peasy mac’n’cheesy? Next session is 1 and 7 for the weave pole angle. We want to add the collection challenge early on, because that is your main goal.
The other thing I do with the 2x2s which is an advantage over the channels – I move them someplace different for every single session 🙂 You’ll start to see that in the demos: all different spots around my house or in the agility field LOL!!! It helps the dogs generalize the poles rather than doing them perfectly in one place for a while then having to start over in a new spot. I think he is totally ready for you to just plop the 2×2 base in a new spot each time.
Great job here! Keep me posted!
TracyGood morning!
I will answer the easy question first:
>> Also wondering how to decide to use a threadle arm vs open shoulder (which I do for jump threadles)?>>
It depends on a couple of things:
First, how responsive is the dog to verbals? If the dog is GREAT with verbals, the physical cues are not all that important. Some dogs can process verbals better than others when the wind is rushing through their ears 🙂
Second, of course it is personal preference, but here is how I decide:
I train BOTH arm uses on jump threadles – the open shoulder/dog-side arm is used when it is an easier threadle and also when I am in great position. And for dogs that process verbals better.
I use my outside arm for the really hard threadles and when I am NOT in great position, particularly when I am behind the dog. That little bit of extra help goes a long way to giving info to my teammate – when I am behind on a hard line and yelling verbals, basically the dog is driving the bus at that point so I am going to try to give as much info as possible because I cannot/will not turn my feet at that point.So…. same goes for tunnels 🙂 But in general, tunnel threadles are ALL harder because course design has put the dog squarely on the line to the incorrect end of the tunnel and also has put my slow butt behind the dog. And, something about the way I train makes my dogs really love driving to the tunnel 🙂 So I almost always use the opposite arm on those as it is really clear.
Some other folks only use the opposite arm for tunnel threadles (or any threadle) and it is the only time the dog sees that arm.
So it is a combination of your preference, the dog’s ability to process verbals at high speed, and what works best for you and the dog.
>>On tunnel threadle do you have a demo video on progressing past the obvious end?
And when to graduate to a curved tunnel?>>We add all of that in the 2nd and 3rd MaxPup classes, building to sequences that involve full on tunnel threadles coming down a fast line.
Progressing to a curved tunnel is gradual because I don’t want to wrench baby dog bodies (dogs fall in tunnels ALL the time). So you can, separately from threadles, start to do “banana” curve entry or exits in training (I personally avoid the tighter curves of the tunnel that we see in AKC style courses here, in favor of softer banana curves.
And for the threadles on the straight tunnels, you can use the double whammy game where you end up threadling to the other end from way back on the other end of the tunnel. Then build up starting from in front of the “wrong” end and sometimes driving the pup into it, and sometimes threadling to the other side, with the motion progression of you walking, then jogging, the running.
And, when the tunnel is a bit curved and the threadles are good on the straight tunnel, blend the two together and the voila! Tunnel threadles on curved tunnels 🙂Let me know if that makes sense!
Tracy
