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Thanks everyone! The good news is that I am learning a lot especially how to be an advocate for the dog. The bad news is that we have no real answers and more waiting. Sigh. Poor Hot Sauce 🙁
Good morning! Nice hack to just get a little more movement!
Yes, he totally noticed! Cookie him up for all efforts 🙂 You can also introduce the new tips each time with a ‘guided tour’ where you walk him up the ramp and reward, then stand at the end of the board and recall, so that he is never surprised at full speed.
I notice that the board also whips and shakes and rattles under him as it lands on the holder – you can play with more sandbags on the base and see if that helps add more stability and less rattling under him? It is definitely something we small dog people have to think about because the teeter won’t whip like that under a 30 pound dog. I do add in all the crazy things teeters do with under the small dogs, but for now if you can eliminate some of the factors he will think about it less.>>He worked through it but never quite as confident as with no movement.
>>but still has this “crouchy” stance at the end. He’s a dog that usually if he sits on something that he has concerns about for a day or two when we come back to it he’s totally fine with it. So it will be interesting to see how he responds in a few days.>>I think he will be fine, by the end of the session he was offering to start it without you 🙂 The other thing you can do is jackpot sessions of intro the tip for one high value rep, then do one more rep for an entire bowl of food… then done, session over LOL! He will of course want to do more, and so will you – but these one or two rep sessions (no matter how fast or slow he is, he still gets full on jackpots) will raise the arousal for the teeter because it is paired with jackpots and also because he can’t have it when he wants it LOL!!! That is how my Export was trained – and he was the most teeter-terrified dog I have ever seen. He got one or two reps on the teeter for massive rewards (a whole can of Vienna Sausage was a memorable moment for the bang game a teeter in a different place) and he ended up loving the teeter 🙂 Sly starts from a place with a LOT more confidence already, so I am sure he is going to have an amazing teeter 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyHi! For the weaves class, I will be using channels for my own dogs but you can also use 2x2s for the games (I might throw in some 2×2 games as well, because I really love that method too – I have not started either dog on the weaves so I will probably do both methods LOL!)
For the seesaw – the games we started here will be included and advanced on, plus I will be adding games that will not be posted here, building to putting the finished teeter in sequence… by really focusing on that weight shift to get the dogs in a great spot to balance on the board.
T
Good morning! Wow, no snow and not too cold in January? That makes for fun agility training! Yay! These games looked super good!!!
On the first clip:The Go exits look really good, my only suggestion is to add a little more connection to her eyes when she is in your left, she seems to want to curl in to you more on that side – she seems straighter on your right. But she was really driving out beautifully plus your physical & verbal cues were well-timed.
on the lefts & rights: your verbal timing was spot on! You can turn your shoulders sooner, to match the timing of the verbals – your verbals were great but you were running forward so she was a little wide on the exit, checking for info. So for now, show her the shoulder turn to the left or right at the same time as the verbal to support it with motion – and then in the future you will be able to fade it out and she will respond on verbals only.
On the RC video – wow!!! Super nice on the RCs!! Those are particularly hard RCs and your verbals & physical cues were spot on. Yay! And the go balances looked great, she did not appear to ask any questions. That is terrific!!!
Great job on both of these! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
The teeter-for-meals program is looking GREAT, he is driving up it so nicely!!! Since he is so young, keep going with that and you can also add in a rear cross on the mountain climber game.
If you have access to another teeter, you can bring the PVC teeter holder to a new place and do a one-hit-wonder on a different teeter. It would be perfectly normal for him to be cautious on a new teeter so no worries if he is not as good in a new place as he is at home – the one hit wonders will transfer 🙂The bang game is also going really well! He seems super confident on those too 🙂 Yay!
>>watch his rear legs when he jumps onto the end of the teeter from his right side. See how he lifts his rear leg up? Is that okay, should I be concerned? >>
Yep, I see that on the bang game and some skip steps running up the board on mountain climbers. What does it mean? I don’t know – from the training side of things, it could be that he is not sure how to shift his weight back so is off balance (which is what Export did at this age – Export spends all of his life skipping with his left hind in the air but was fine in agility and had no patella issues). So two ideas for you:
for the weight shift, don’t add more height to the bang game yet as that will put him more on his front to leap on. You can add tugging in position or you can add tugging on a wobble board (toy nice and low) to begin weight shift. I have a game that will also help with the weight shift but I would start with the tugging on the wobble board at this stage.For more strength and balance, I suggest working on his backing up skills, cavaletti trotting, and fitness fitness mountain climbers (not teeter mountain climbers hahaha):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxuhEL2yRHU>>I’m trying not to be a helicopter mom but, well, it’s hard.
No explanation needed, totally relate!!
2nd video:
Yay backsides – he can do all of Sizzle’s games so far! There will be a spot where the youngsters won’t be able to do all the backside training, but that is a few weeks away. He is really good about the countermotion element of it and looks like the default of taking the jump is already well-established. Yay! One tweak, which will be very useful as you move further and further away across the bar: when he is in the sit, step away to your parallel starting line (but not forward), then start moving forward on the parallel path, connect… then release 🙂 You were melding the steps together so he was not always clear before he left the side. On some of the reps where you got zig zags, you were moving laterally away, then starting the parallel line & connection at the same time as the release, so he had to read it late or he read front side (like at :21). You can see the pattern more correctly at 1:01 (except you were a little too far across the jump for his level there, but everything else was really good! Make each element distinct before the release and it will smooooooth out his line 🙂On the RCs – these are hard skills, not intuitive to the dog at all! He did better when you added more pressure, right up on his tail (the one-jump work looked really strong) so make sure you are there to add that pressure without accidentally pushing him to the backside. The accidental backsides were timing moments – you were pushing the pressure line and turning your feet before he was past you. So keep your feet moving up the RC pressure line, towards the center or far side of the bar til he is past you, then cut in and turn your feet. The verbals are going nicely and your throws are helpful – I see no problem with early throws like at 1:37 to help with the turn. You are basically saying “when the momma does *this* (RC pressure) the toy will be *there*”. You can also leave a toy out there on the line or tuck a MM into the wing on the landing side to help out.
He is definitely getting better and better at these! If he gets it right – big party. If he turns the wrong way – show him the toy where you would put it if he got it right, have a small party, try again. The small parties of “ooh look when you see the pressure then the toy is here!” will help him read the pressure sooner so you won’t have to be as perfect when he is an adult. And if he ends up on the backside – totally reward because that was cued 🙂
Great job here! Let me know what you think!
TracyGood morning!
That is weird that the posts went missing – I had something similar happen over the weekend when I was trying to post lessons, thought they were posted but nope, they were not. Hmmm! I will ask the tech guru to see if anything weird is happening or if 2020 is trying to hang on here.It was really good to see all of these videos and try to sort out his serpentine questions (serps are actually really complex from the dog’s perspective). He was really good with his jumping efforts (those are super hard and yet it seemed effortless for him – yay!!!). So I think his questions came down to 2 things – line of motion and anticipating the back out of the cue based on timing of the upper body. Here are details and ideas:
On the first video – super nice on the first reps where you were walking and smoooooth on the line of motion. At :24 – :26 you got your first accidental backside: it looks like this is casued by a combination of the upper body serp cue happening as he is approaching the serp jump, and then your line of motion pushing back in to the next jump (which does look like a backside push). Subtle, yes, but Kaladin reads subtle 🙂 Then I think he was guessing/anticipating – it is probably physically easier to go to the backside of the jump by making the changes on the flat than it is to find the front side of the jump at that angle and make the lead changes on approach to the jump.
The other element that I think was contributing: the upper body serp rotation (arm back, chest facing the bar) can come sooner and then not move, so he is seeing it long before the jump – by showing it to him a little later, he is seeing the come in cue a little late which then causes him to anticipate the back out element, leading to the backside. Even with the jumps angled I think you were feeling that he was considering more “back out” than we need.
You can see this on the flat angles of the serp jumps where serp was jump 2 – the cue was in place sooner and you didn’t pull in as much or push back out and they look really strong!!
On the 2nd video – (tunnel – jump – jump) – this is where I see more of the itming of the upper body contributing to him added extra go-back-out: As he approached the jump after the tunnel you were opening up, so it is possible he was reading that cue as an anticipation/wind up for being pushed out. So switch the timing a little: as soon as he is in the tunnel, get your serp arm back to a comfortable posture and then run up the line without moving in or out (upper body frozen while feet move) so he sees the come-in sooner and doesn’t anticipate it as being paired with the go-back-out. And that way you won’t have to change your line to exaggerate the arm back.
For now, leave the angles of the jumps pretty open so it is really really hard to find the backside, and then you can stay in a fast steady motion – then angle the first jump after the tunnel closed… then we can angle the 2nd jump after the tunnel closed.
3rd video – I can see that anticipation here too, with the cue happening on approach to the serp jump so he is pushing back out – on the angled lines he is not finding a backside but I think I see what you were feeling about him pushing away. That is causing you to work harder than needed to get him all the way in and not anticipating the back out to the other side.
Nice job working the timing of the verbals on the tunnel exit – you were a little late on the left cue at :54 but that is also a wicked hard serp angle – you worked it a bit sooner and dang – it was stunning at 1:07!!! Look at that exit and how he drove in for the serpentine!!!! That was a happy dance moment for sure.
So for now, keep the serp jumps angled so you can run the lines nice and close to the jumps (about an arm’s length away) and the backsides will be hard to find – that way you can have your serp arm back sooner and that can help him to not read it in a way that anticipates the back-out element, and then you can stay nice and close without having to change speed or open up more. A happy cycle!! Let me know if that makes sense!
Nice work!
TracyHi Joni! This was also a really lovely session!!!! You were great about sending, being patient, and then smooooothly moving away when she was reaching the stick. Super!!!!! My only suggestion is the same as above – no need to support as much with the send arm, don’t let it curl across you. Just send and then let it drop. You can definitely start leaving sooner and sooner now, she is rocking this. Question: have you decided what you want your wrap verbals to be? You can start using them (you were saying go, which is probably what you say to cue extension, so we want to add the wrap tight turn verbals in). Do you have a wrap verbal for Jedi? Let me know and then we will add them in.
Great job!
TracyHi! This is going really nicely!!! Was the barrel/trash can a new object to go around? She did a great job committing.
>>sometimes she seems a little wide at the beginning of the turn. But then she comes in tighter when chasing me/toy. Should she be tighter? Maybe not. >>
I think she was looking around a little bit – the environment is still relatively new, the game is new, there was other stuff visible and dogs were barking in the distance. So I am not worried about tightening it up at all, she will get it really nicely. Yuo were just about perfect on all of your patience in letting her come all the way around the barrel, I think there was only one time at you left too early (:50). One suggestion is that you can use your dog-side arm to send, but then you can relax it, no need to support her line with it by twisting it across you. That will help her commit even more independently because you will working up to leaving before she even gets to the barrel 🙂
>>Oh and sometimes I use my outside arm and sometimes the dog side arm. Probably good to just get used to both>>
For now, try to convince yourself to use the outside arm to reward, the connection looked fantastic when you did that and she really drove the line. By doing that now in the early stages, it becomes less important in the future and then you can connection with whichever arm you like 🙂
Great job!
TracyHi Dixie, great to see you here!!!
>>Auditor but thought I would start my own thread and ask questions here. Is that ok?
Yes, it is perfect 🙂
>>I have trouble with words sometimes so verbals are challenging for me more than the dogs.
That is something I have heard from lots of folks and also have had trouble with, myself! When I started agility, it was a real badge of honor to run silently… back when I was 20 years younger, 20 years faster and my dogs were much slower LOL! Two things that I have found to help are:
– prioritize the important ones and really focus on those. Otherwise your brain will not be happy!
– practice, practice, practice – using the one or two important ones, say them at every opportunity on course until they are second nature. So in my walk throughs at home, classes, seminars, and trials, I really focus on making sure I am saying the correct words by saying them during the walk throughs, out loud. I am sure people think I am a weirdo (they are correct haha) but it really really helps me pattern the words for myself.>> Both are Papillon 4 years old and 2 1/2 both on the larger size. (not huge).
I have 2 Paps as well! And a half-Pap haha 🙂 The 2 Paps are on opposite sides of the height spectrum: one is really big (11.5 inches) and the other is really small (8.5 inches). I love the breed – so much sass and personality, they are awesome!
>>We have 24 x 30 heated indoor training room so should be able to do most everything indoors. Looking forward to this class have been in a slump and not doing any training. So joined the class to get me motivated.>>
Perfect!!!! Keep me posted on how they do, feel free to provide updates as often as you like 🙂
TracyHi!
>>should we do a kennel tunnel discrimination or should I use his RC mat?>>Start with the kennel til he gets the idea that something else might happen in the presence of the tunnel, and then we will move it over to the RC mat 🙂
T
Hi! We don’t need all of it at the same time (there will be course builds haha) but you will definitely get more action and have more fun if you can get you your agility field! As long as there is decent internet there, I think that would be great!
TracyGood morning! And welcome!! He is a great age for this and he gives great feedback 🙂 Posting the sessions that are not perfect – that is the MOST helpful thing! Whenever something goes wrong such as losing motivation, I start to jot down rewards versus non-rewards (negative punishment) to look at rate of success: and I think that is what the problem was here particularly in the first session. Yes, there might have been a noise sensitivity factor that contributed but I think you can work through it with an eye on rate of success as well.
Normally I comment on sessions separately when they are posted separately like this, but I think we can look at these together because there were two things in common 🙂
First, the wing or jump is higher value than the tunnel. You’ve probably put a lot more reinforcement on the wing or jump, and he was definitely telling us that when he starting offering the multi-wraps towards the end of the first video LOL! Good boy 🙂
Second – rate of success is critical to him (especially if there are noises in the background). I did a general outline of the first session’s success rate, which includes cued behaviors and offered behaviors that were rewarded or not rewarded (neg punishment). He was at about 35% rate of success, which is a contributing factor to the mental check out. The offered wraps at the beginning where you called him back (no reward) count as negative punishment and can be deflating, so either hold him or sit him as you get ready so you don’t have to tell him he was wrong.
Now compare it to the serp session – he was closer to 80% success, so he was much more engaged. Yay!
Now, looking at the skills: since the tunnel is harder for him, you can help by using more motion for now (then we can fade it later). And for whatever reason, he was much better at the wraps on the first part of the session, maybe the wing was closer on the 2nd part of the session? Hard to tell exactly but definitely do another session and approach it by protecting the rate of success like it is gold or diamonds 🙂 On your next session, help him with more motion. And if he has an error, make it easier (get closer or move more) – we can really pump up the rate of success to over 95%. Then you can get the overall success rate really high, which allows you to challenge him more. So for the next session, don’t let him start offering til you are ready, and get in and help him out if he has an error. And if that goes well, you can return to the 2 failure rule in future sessions as that also protects the rate of success but also adds challenge.
Let me know if that makes sense!!!! Have fun 🙂
TracyGood morning! Things are looking really good here!
Game 1 – I half to admit that I always chuckle at the dog’s optimism when they go through the tunnel incorrectly and then drive in to grab the toy in such a celebratory mood. LOL!! He did really well here – it was not easy for him because if you wart he his head, he was looking straight as he wrapped the wing on both sides (on the first couple of reps) and he then turned after he got to the wing (or decided it was the tunnel). As he got into the game, he started turning his head earlier and earlier. Good boy! Yes, add motion to it – the success rate is high enough to move forward. You might want to do 4 reps of warm up: one wrap and one tunnel on each side without movement to help set up a high rate of success not he first session. Then in future sessions, if all goes well, you can start with motion (no warm up needed).
Serps: The only error was him wanting to serp instead of tunnel early in the session (he was so funny popping back into the tunnel LOL!) but in the grand scheme of thing, that is the best possible error and it only happened once. I say “best possible” because I think that your toolbox of handling skills has layering as pretty far down the list, so if the layering skill is a little weaker than serpentines for now: perfect! You would just need to lean in more like you did to get the tunnel in that scenario. It might have an impact on your tunnel/contact discriminations where he might want to come in closer to you, so we will tackle that separately. The serps looks fabulous, I like how he is making both turns on the serps. Yes… next session add movement 🙂 Yay!
Contact/tunnel – I think this is the hardest of the games because it is 100% verbal with zero handler help in terms of position or motion. VERY difficult! Being at 82% is fabulous and you are moving the right direction! Two ideas for you (they are linked):
You can start saying the verbal cue before he chooses one to look at, then let him go when he is looking at the right one. Right now he is looking back and forth and when he visually lands on one, you are attached the cue and letting him go. We will fade out releasing when he is looking at the correct one pretty soon so he doesn’t think it is look at one then go to it, as that might weaken the verbal.
And, try different tones for your different obstacle here, emulating what you might do on course. For example, my tunnel verbal is pretty loud and repeated. And my a-frame verbal is a lot quieter and not repeated as much. So you can try different verbal ‘energies’ and see if that helps. It would be something like TUNNELTUNNELTUNNELTUNNEL versus craaaayte-craaaaayte-craaaaayte. But again, 82% on pure verbal is GREAT so far!!!!!Great job!
Tracy
