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Hi there!
On the motivated stay clip – she is really a lovely tugger and also when she was in the sit, she did a great job holding the sit – so I think we can add a layer to this game for her: rewarding her for *not* jumping for the toy as you move it away from her mouth to transition to the next part of the game.
On a couple of the reps, you helped her a little but holding her but as soon as the toy moved, she would leap for it. It is a similar behavior you’ve seen in other places, so we can help her here. This is what I suggest:
Tug tug tug (that is easy hahaha) and then relax your hands, give an out cue if you have one, and wait. Let her back off the toy, release it, relax herself. Don’t touch her face/neck/collar.
At first, when she releases it, don’t move the toy: just take a breath, let the toy there, then tell her to get it 🙂
When she can do that, you can go to the next step of: after she releases it, slowly move the toy away (to the side) then release her to get it). Then you can add in moving it up – at this point, she can be in a stand or a sit – but I bet she starts to offer sits pretty quickly.
The sit part of the game is going brilliantly! So we can look at the transition element where we get her to stay all feet on the ground as the toy moves out of the picture and as you go into “game on” posture or she can immediately offer the sit as the toy moves away (as opposed to offering the jumping up for it :))The puppy class recalls were terrific! What a perfect opportunity to play this game with distractions. I like how the instructor is building in distractions for her while teaching the other dogs how to chill. Yessssss 🙂 And of course Lanna was a super star 🙂 We will be building on these recalls shortly.
Well done here!!!!!
Tracy
Hello and welcome!!!
I am looking forward to figuring out how to help him love to tug all the time 🙂 And seeing the shaping! Both the videos are marked private, though, so I can’t see them yet. Can you change the privacy to unlisted? Thanks 🙂Tracy
Hi there!
>> wish I would have gotten from start to finish in the shaping of this. I wanted to shape something he has never done so we worked on figure 8s around my legs.
I think he did a great job here!!!! He seems to be definitely figuring out. This is a useful skill – a great focus trick, a great physical warm up, and you can use it as a line up cue too! Yay!
>> Today after a good sleep he totally is figuring it out.
I agree! Latent learning perhaps? Yay!
>> He has not gotten the full continue in a figure 8 but he is definitely getting the idea.
I think better reward placement will give him the final pieces. On most of the reps, you were rewarding him dead center for coming between your legs, then he wasn’t quite sure what to do next. You can praise or click that, but toss the reward off to where he has to chase it for the next part of the figure 8 – which would generally be behind your knee. You did this on some of the reps and when yo did it, he was perfect in finding the next part of the figure 8. So – no more cookies delivered dead center – always toss the rewards to the next area you want him to go to.
>> After the restrained recall suggestions I worked with Sue Y yesterday and i would tug then make him calm and feed him for being calm then give him over to her. He immediately goes over the top, not as bad when I pass him to someone. One point he jumped and was biting my hand when I was trying to let go of his collar and walk away. I basically told him knock it off in a nice kind of way still in sue hands and he came back to earth and worked nicely. I am trying to correct him in a nice and appropriate way as I dont want to do anything to ruin his love to work.
Hmmmm…. yeah, he is really frustrated about something in the restrained recalls, and it could be a general “mom’s leaving” anxiety (my Hot Sauce is not a fan of restrained recalls either for that reason). And we definitely don’t want to correct him, as that will add anxiety. So – try a quick hand off and an immediate recall (don’t walk away – run and call immediately). Also, in the hand off, are you ‘making the introduction’ where you deliver him, he can have a cookie from the new person, then you go?
You can also do it all with food.
And, takes out anything in the recall that might frustrate him, like the 360s or front crosses or go cues – just do very straightforward, high rate of success recalls so it is really easy.
Let me know if that makes sense.>>Would you cut out the tugging in between the exercise and passing him off and only feed him as a reward.
Possibly, but that won’t necessary solve the issue of the arousal. You can start it with food only then bring the toy back in eventually.
>>I am not too concerned with how he is right now but I dont want to get him much higher and then it’s out of control. I love his drive and love to work. When we are not working he is the sweetest most cuddly boy with a great off switch.>>
I am not too concerned about it (a year of flyball has given me all sorts of new tools haha!) but you can add in a ‘go say hi’ cue to make the hand off and use longer toys that you can drag on the ground to help him focus on the toy and not on your flesh if he is jumping up at all. And short, fast-transition recalls will help too!
let me know if that makes sense. Nice work here!
TracyHi!
He was such a good boy in this video! I have a couple of ideas for you to build on all of the successes here!On the recalls – you can make the transition into running as soon as your holder has a good grip – take off as soon as the hold has him 🙂 And, drop the toy in and let the toy drag when he is halfway to you. The reason for these two is that he, in typical BC style, wants to flank out a little bit rather than drive right to you. So, but running sooner and dropping the toy in sooner, he will drive straighter and faster to you. The toy was an excellent choice! So you can just present it (as you keep running) and let it drag as a focal point so he drives to you even more.
On the sit tug sit – I guess all you needed to do was get the camera rolling to help him understand the game? LOL! Good boy 🙂 My only suggestion here is to use your release word (rather than ‘yes’) and move the toy away from him when he releases, not towards.
Now about being sticky when the camera isn’t on…
It might be a body language thing? On this video, you were pretty perfect in your transition – get the toy, stand up, wait. That is a body language that encourages the sit. You might have been leaning over in previous sessions?But, it was also highly likely some BC baby dog arousal stuff 🙂 So yes, keep working this game but also you can add the toy in as a visual distraction in your other sit games. When you do the sits for cookies, you can be holding a toy. Then build to dangling it, then swinging it, etc. The toy is just there, not a reward, but it will certainly be stimulating. Or you can do a bit of tugging, then some sit-tug-sit for cookies then back to tugging. That will gradually incorporate the toy more while keeping him from getting too locked onto it. And incorporating the toy into shaping will help too, because he will learn to offer lots of behavior even with the toy right there.
Nice work here!!
TracyThis is some pretty impressive planing, I love it! And yes, I understand the whole I-95 in Virginia thing LOL!
Do you feel like the packing/pre-trial routine is stressful at all, or smooth and easy? Sometimes it is stressful, in which case we would streamline it. But if the pre-trial routine actually makes things less stressful, then it is perfect! Visualizing the drive is great because I totally understand how it is to lose sleep over the whole ‘getting there’ thing in the morning. I love that your routine is so detailed!Tracy
Hi Diane!
I love this – a kindness crusade!! How fun! and it sounds like you are able to surround yourself with people who are joining your crusade. Yay!!! It really does change the whole day at a trial, right? And yes, I agree that the nasty comments can be so hurtful but with smiling and kindness, you will find that the positive people join forces to make it a great time for everyone. I am totally on board with the Kindness Crusade!!! Agility needs more of this!!!!!!Tracy
I love that you are putting it into practice!!! Mental prep is an up and down road, so take note of what is immediately effective and what you will want to keep working on. Looking forward to hearing more!!!
Tracy
Hi there!
For the Any Toy game, I think you can be standing and moving more to get more excitement on the tugging. She really seems to like it when you are moving the toy a lot, so long toys swooshing around while you are standing and moving a bit can make the tugging really get wild 🙂 You can tie a couple of her toys together to get that long exciting toy. As you are running, using these ultra long toys swooshing on the ground will also help protect your flesh from betting tooth hugs as she comes in to the tug LOL!
And, since you are working on tugging, you don’t have to do much with cookies in between tug – maybe one cookie if you are going to tug in the same spot, or multiple cookies but then run to a new spot to tug (this will get her really pumped up 🙂
And one other thing – no need to put ‘control’ on the tugging until after she is a die hard tugger. That means you don’t need an ‘out’ or any offering of polite behavior to get the toy – you can just take it out of her mouth or let her be naughty to get it 🙂Toy races – good girl driving ahead! She likes to hop to the toy – are you planning on training a running dog walk? If not, no problem. If so, let me know and we will make adjustments 🙂
As you mentioned, she also looks like she might want to run off with the toy – you can help her by running the other way when she gets to it and encourage her to drive back to you by calling or tapping your leg. If she turns her head to come to you, you can reward with a 2nd toy.
Also, on the last rep, we see she didn’t want to have her collar grabbed as you mentioned: two ideas for you – this is a place where I *would* use a cookie: toy, collar grab, cookie, then right back to toy races.
Also, when you do get her by the collar, don’t move her around by it – she might find that unpleasant and be avoiding it. So whichever direction you are facing when you get her collar, just start the toy races facing that direction.Sit Tug Sit is off to a good start here! It took a couple of seconds to get her into the groove – you can split the initial behavior in a new place into just standing still then release then play, so she can get right into the game before offering the sit. This can also help avoid the down – stand then release rather than waiting too long.
Have you considered shortening your release? “You’re free” if kinda lengthy for the quickness of the game 🙂 and she is releasing on the “you’re” part of it – so maybe consider a one word release instead of 2? It looks like she is releasing on the word alone and not motion, which is great!
Now start to add a bit of duration – quiet praise and a longer time before the release. And maybe a bit of motion too!
Nice work here!!!
TracyHi there! I love the progression you have done to build up the toy races! Great job using food while you were building toy drive and convincing him to run ahead and not under your feet 🙂 The toy races here look great, he is FAST! You’ve already added nice distance and he is driving ahead beautifully. My only suggestions are on the restrained part right before you let go… he isn’t too careful with his body, so try to keep his front feet on the ground (don’t’ lift from the collar, or lower him if he tries to come up) and when you push him back, be more gentle (like you were at the end) and don’t push too hard – your early push back in the video sent him toppling LOL!! You were trying to cheat a bit to win, which is great, but he doesn’t quite know how to use all of his legs at top speed yet LOL!
Nice work here!!!!! Looking forward to the shaping!
TracyYes, start by the box. And then, using the MM, you can change your position so she leaves you to go through the box to the MM – great foundation for weaves and RDW!
Tracy
Hi!
Yes, this all sounds good! To help continue solidifying the retrieve after the toy race, you can even expand it to countermotion – as soon as she gets to the toy, you are turning and running the other way. And if that goes well, you can turn and run the other way just before she gets to the toy (this will work really well when you have a lot of distance between you and the toy).
Have fun!
TracyHello again! Toy races look good, I am liking her focus forward to the toy and her body position as she moves to it. I think you were only able to beat her because the floor was slippery – so try this only in grippy floors like dirt/grass/turf/carpet. She was trying really hard but was slipping. And she is ready for you to add more distance so you are both running hard – if that goes well, I suggest adding a “GO!” verbal as well 🙂 She also appears to *not* be running off with the toy (yay!) so keep rewarding her for letting you catch up or for bringing it to you.
>>This is a game we have played before, but never in this location. When We played it Wednesday night in a different place I couldn’t beat her.
What was the footing in the Weds night place? She had the concept and body position here really nicely, but was scrambling a bit which allowed you to win 🙂
>>When I steal the toy if I hold it high she goes launching in the air (2-3 feet is not uncommon) she will also sometimes grab clothing. I’ve been trying to tease her low, is this okay? It seems safer and avoids behavior I don’t want to build.
Yes indeed, low tease! The other thing I put in my notes when I watch the video was ‘shorter tease’ which means you can do a second or two of “look, hey, I won!” then go back to the game. Some dogs need a long tease to build up the drive (like my tiny Papillon in the video) but some pups need a short quick tease – the longer teasing gets them too aroused, so you see the behaviors you describe. So yes to the long, low, fast-moving toy and tease her for literally 2 seconds or less. I agree that we don’t want the launching or clothing grabbing. I am also glad to see more of her learning style, because it will help us plan for future sessions! She is an ultra-engaged girl who seems very “game on” when you are playing… so cool!!!! So we don’t need to build the engagement, we just need to show her concepts then almost immediately let her try again. Very fun times ahead!
>>2. The second time she beat me and put teeth on toy but when I grabbed it I pulled it out of her mouth. I just continued play with her as she met criteria of beat me to tug, is that okay?
Yes, 100% perfect there. I think she was trying to coordinate the footing and the grabbing of the toy there and couldn’t quite manage both. She had the toy grab but not the footing. And, as with the teasing, we don’t appear to need to build toy drive or engagement, so you were correct to keep playing with her. She is still small and young, so gentle pulling is great too so you don’t accidentally pull it away (I know, the game is run fast, reach for it, but then be gentle haha! Not so easy for us humans!)
Lovely work here! Let me know what you think.
TracyGood morning!
>>Lanna is the smallest female from the Gravy’s Mixins litter. Mom is from Emily Hurt’s agility lines (but not owned by her) and dad is a Georgia farm dog. Her Embark is roughly 2/3 BC, 20% rat terrier, and a few percent of Germ Shep, Am Bulldog, Chow, and Rott. In person she looks like a small BC and acts like a border rat.
Very cool!!!! The Emily Hurt BC lines are super fun dogs and of course add in some terrier etc and you have quite the perfect puppy! I love her!!!
Shaping:
>> I wonder if the jump on me was the start of the frustration behavior as I do see that as a frustration behavior that does sometimes pop up.It is entirely possible! One of the things we do in these early shaping games is figure out the training style of each pup… I wish they were all very much the same (like chickens can be, for example LOL!) but they are all soooooo different. So yes, jumping up could be a sign of how quickly she reads placement of reinforcement combined with frustration. What does that tell us? To be super precise with placement at this point and super split. And that is fine, because it also tells us she is brilliant and driven 🙂 Yay!
>> In the second video I decided to go the more traditional route of shaping a shake then clicking early to get the wave.
Which is perfectly fine, of course 🙂 Then you fade the hand cue further away/change hand position to turn the shake into a wave, add verbal cues, and voila! Tricks!
>> I you have any thoughts on how to get the lift from route one, I would be curious from a skills standpoint.
I think adding in thinking about what we don’t want her to offer will help too – we don’t want her to move much more than that front foot and we don’t want her to jump up for the cookie as we bring it in to reward (and she has fast feet so we can’t rely on going faster than she can LOL!)- so how can we get the rest of her body to remain relatively still while we try to isolate that small front foot movement while still giving us that extra second to get the reward in?
I suggest getting her to sit on a chair for this session – I would use one of those soft fold-up camping chairs that we use at trials a lot, like this:
The arms will help give her boundaries and the softness of the center will help her have to keep her weight centered so her back end won’t move as much and it is hard to jump up.
Start with cookies for just sitting in the chair – this will tell her that being up there is a good place and it will pump up the rate of reinforcement which lowers possible frustration when offering. Then go into shaping the foot – she might offer the shifting feet to lie down (as she did on the flat) so you can click that but feed where her head would be if she was sitting. You can also elicit the foot by reaching towards it or tickling a stopper pad then c/t when she moves the foot.>>I will work to improve clarity and splitting to minimize frustration. So far she doesn’t tend to bark and run, but she is really only just now finding her voice.
I love shaping young dogs, it helps us figure out things that will help long-term training! And if she barks when she is frustrated, that’s fine – I call it ‘feedback’ LOL!
Let me know what you think! Keep me posted!
Tracy
Good morning! He is a big dude for sure, but a really good boy!!!
And it looks like he definitely enjoys the training you’re doing 🙂
On the toy play – I totally agree that he seems to prefer the smaller toys over the longer toy that you started with, but I worry for your flesh as things get more exciting 🙂 Maybe tie the ball toys to a slightly longer toy to split the difference: he doesn’t have to be that fat away and he still gets his preferred toys, but we protect your fingers more from accidental chomping. He didn’t appear to chomp you at all here, but I can see it happening when he starts driving in for the toy more.
>>My main problem with his tugging is that he wants to cling to my leg
He is trying to hump your leg. Puppies… LOL!!!!! I suggest a tiny bit of ‘smack da baby’ where you keep the toy low with one hand and use the other hand to gently tap his cheeks/chest/shoulders/sides. That will help him shift his weight back to tug, rather than shift himself forward into humping position haha You will find his preferences there too – some pups like light smack da baby on their sides only. Some love a more rough-play version where you are smacking harder and tapping their heads (usually Aussies love the rougher version, but I allow the dog to tell us by gently starting with light tap and away from the face).
>>or get the toy between his front legs which makes it hard to tug.
That is part of his play style – a slightly longer toy will help, and jut keep moving it around a little. Smack da baby can be useful here too because it will shift him back like he did with the tennis ball toy.
Your ‘out’ cues are looking good, nice transition – you are saying out then he outs and *then* you reach for the treat. Nice!
On the box shaping:
>>, I was trying to get him to put his front feet in the box, but then, he started to eat the box, so I stopped:-)Ha! I think the box was too small so eating it or picking it up seemed like the best option. A larger box with a slightly lower edge will help encourage feet. I think that box might have also smelled delicious because he was really interested in sticking his whole head in to smell the bottom.
>>I did some luring to get him to spin for a trick.
This was good – it was a nice medium speed spin so he isn’t torqueing his body. Perfect for warm up routines!!
>>I also taught him to shake by bringing up his left paw. He now offers it incessantly, so I’m trying to get him to also shake with the other paw to another verbal cue. Hopefully it will balance things out.
Ha!!! Of course he is offering it a lot – so funny! 🙂 Was that his very fist session of being asked for the paw lift? He went from the lure/helping where you lifting it to offering it REALLY quickly which is great! In the sessions with paw stuff, be sure to alternate between feet rather than emphasize one foot only. Ask for right and left paws in the same session – your left hand to his right paw, then your right hand to his left paw, for example. If he understands the physical cue for each paw, then the verbal will be really easy to add 🙂
Nice work here!!
TracyGood morning!
>>I wish this course wasn’t ending so fast. I really wanted to do Day 18 Daily challenge upload a video and discuss it with you.
We still have time, I am happy to let the course roll on for a couple more weeks!
>>Quick mention on day 19 Mental prep “NO Last minute pre event changes” I have never understood why people do this.
I think it is anxiety or last-minute cramming (also anxiety). Folks want to do their best and are looking for the magic thing. But even if there is something new and super helpful, it is generally really hard to implement at the last minute in a way that can be used successfully.
>>WOW Daily challenge FIGHT FOR IT! – I have done this in practice for years and had no idea there was a name for it!! I have found that doing this really gets me into the feeling I have before stepping up to the line at natls especially.
Yes! In training, there is too much stopping and re-starting for minor details. Agility is not a perfect sport, so we just gotta keep moving and fix afterwards 🙂
>>I honestly think helped us both in the connection especially at natl level. probably sounds way out there.
I don’t think it is way out there, and I believe there is also some scientific basis for this “connection” thing, both in terms of what the dog can smell about changes in our body chemistry and also in how their brain chemistry changes during interactions with us.
>>Day 20 is there a definition of rhythm handling?? When watching the video’s I could kind a see a difference in what you were talking about. Is there a definition on ” dog’s rhythm “? I am assuming it pertains to dogs strides when running and doing obstacles.?!?
Basically, it is the speed the dog runs on course or covers ground. Each dog has a different rhythm and most people don’t rehearse at the correct rhythm (too slow or too fast for the dog in question).
>>Which got me to thinking I have figured out how fast it takes my boys to do each obstacle so I can plan my timing right for when to buzzer will go off for a game and where I want to be to start the next part of the game which usually has to do with distance work. Do you do this? Where in my preparedness check list would you think it would or should fit in at?
Yes, for something like Gamblers, you need to know how long each obstacle takes and add in the amount of yardage in order to properly plan. It is REALLY hard 🙂 I don’t make it a priority until my standard and jumpers runs are really good – because amount of time is also handling based, so if my Standard runs are full of bobbles, then there is no good way to predict what my Gamblers openings will be. So in the early stages, I just go for great flow and end up somewhere near the gamble line for the whistle. As the teamwork solidifies, you can add gamble opening decisions into all of your work: run reminders, walk throughs, visualizations, etc.
>>Run reminder challenge – so run reminders are the specific list of needs for each dog which would include in performance goals ( where I perform the cues ect correctly to dog so he understands what needs to be done at that moment)
EX: Tanner : make eye contact before releasing him at start line, when release at start line he runs then I move, include verbal cues, trust Tanner that he understands what we have been training.
Buddy : same first 3 , talk to him to keep him focus on me and not others, praise him when enter weaves correctly.
>>Right??Yes 🙂 The very specific things you need to remember for each individual dog.
>>On the success pyramid – we have covered a LOT !! wow so can I assume that in the future there will be a part two to mental preparedness??
We don’t have an online version, but I have done a bunch of in-person versions where we involve the dog too 🙂 It is great fun!
>>Defiantly going to be thinking about symbolic actions I can use to help me let go of ugly runs. Do you have any that you use?
I throw away the course map and delete the video 🙂
>>I want to thank you for this class. It has been an eye opener besides a huge enlightenment for me. I feel that I have learned a ton and wish that after the next two weekends of trialing I could really discuss with you what I discovered in trying these new things. Besides being sure I really have the understanding of it all on the various parts. Your input has been wonderful and very greatly appreciated.
You are very welcome! Keep me posted on how your trial weekends go!!!
Tracy
